This is what the war on drugs looks like

dignindignin Posts: 9,338
edited May 2012 in A Moving Train
Warning, NSFW maybe NSFL

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... dies-found

Nine bodies were found hanging from a bridge in Nuevo Laredo, a crime attributed to the Zetas . On the outskirts of the town hall of that city, were discovered 14 heads in refrigerators.
The first nine victims, five men and four women, led blindfolded and showed signs of torture, according to a source from the Mayor of that city, bordering the United States.
Alleged members of Los Zetas were attributed the murders of these people, who qualified as members of the rival Gulf Cartel , and they accused of attracting the attention of the security force attacks.
A message placed next to the corpses held responsible for having started the bombing of the headquarters of the municipal police, committed on 24 April.
Near the bridge to Nuevo Laredo, there were also decapitated bodies of 14 people in a vehicle. Human remains were in body bags inside a van parked outside the headquarters of the Association of Customs Agents.
The heads, meanwhile, were found in abandoned refrigerators near City Hall.
Weeks ago, on April 17, as many dismembered bodies were found in a vehicle parked next to the mayor of the city, with a message purportedly signed by Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman , leader of the Sinaloa Cartel , announcing his arrival in the city to clean the "z".
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  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,935
    Meanwhile a group of 20 somethings were able to have a wild weekend at the club....hope it was worth it.
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

    Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
    Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

    Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

    That is something to be considered. I spoke with a woman last year when the proposition was put forth in California to legalized marijuana for recreational purposes. She told me she knew growers who were strongly opposed to legalization. So what is the answer? Perhaps strong decriminalization of all drugs. The drug war obviously isn't the answer.
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  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,935
    Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

    Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

    Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

    Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

    Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product

    cool.

    blow is too expensive!

    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
      Meanwhile a group of 20 somethings were able to have a wild weekend at the club....hope it was worth it.
      I hope you're just as quick to condemn the consumers of diamonds, coffee, coltan, iphones, oil, etc, etc, putting the blame for the deaths attributed to those products at their feet.
      Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

      Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

      Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product
      Not sure if you guys are inferring that the cartel violence is tied to the MJ trade, or if you're saying they'd get involved after decrim....but from my knowledge, its all over coke....and yes, simple decrim with harsher penalties for growers does open the door for organized crime. Full legalization is the only way to go. For all drugs. The violence in Mexico is a direct result of the billions of dollars the US has given Mexico to fight the cartels, which essentially resulted in the Mexican government choosing sides. Its also a result of law enforcement efforts in other countries that caused smugglers to route cocaine thru Mexico instead of other traditional routes. If you search this topic, there were some good articles posted explaining this.
    • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,935
        Meanwhile a group of 20 somethings were able to have a wild weekend at the club....hope it was worth it.
        I hope you're just as quick to condemn the consumers of diamonds, coffee, coltan, iphones, oil, etc, etc, putting the blame for the deaths attributed to those products at their feet.

        :roll:
        350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
      • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
          Meanwhile a group of 20 somethings were able to have a wild weekend at the club....hope it was worth it.
          I hope you're just as quick to condemn the consumers of diamonds, coffee, coltan, iphones, oil, etc, etc, putting the blame for the deaths attributed to those products at their feet.

          :roll:
          Thanks for comin out. :roll: indeed.
        • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,935
          Just another example of people trying to win arguments on the moving train rather than having a dialog.
          350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
        • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
          Just another example of people trying to win arguments on the moving train rather than having a dialog.
          :? Huh? Care to elaborate? You made an off-the-cuff, generalized comment that could be made about nearly any industry, and I countered it. How was your first comment at all constructive dialogue? You responded with an eye roll....now you're accusing me of trying to win a debate instead of engaging in dialogue....while refusing to engage in debate or dialogue? That's rich.
        • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
          Just another example of people trying to win arguments on the moving train rather than having a dialog.
          :? Huh? Care to elaborate? You made an off-the-cuff, generalized comment that could be made about nearly any industry, and I countered it. How was your first comment at all constructive dialogue? You responded with an eye roll....now you're accusing me of trying to win a debate instead of engaging in dialogue....while refusing to engage in debate or dialogue? That's rich.

          Don't worry about it 'Drowned Out', this is just a line people are now spinning when their comments are challenged or contradicted. I was also accused of being 'unwilling to discuss the issue' in the Palestine thread, after 17 pages of discussing the issue, and of backing everything I said with links and sources.

          Apparently, if you say something that people don't agree with, then you're unwilling to have a dialogue, or to discuss the issue. Although it appears that the word 'dialogue' can now also be applied to the posting of a smilie.
        • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
          Byrnzie wrote:
          Just another example of people trying to win arguments on the moving train rather than having a dialog.
          :? Huh? Care to elaborate? You made an off-the-cuff, generalized comment that could be made about nearly any industry, and I countered it. How was your first comment at all constructive dialogue? You responded with an eye roll....now you're accusing me of trying to win a debate instead of engaging in dialogue....while refusing to engage in debate or dialogue? That's rich.

          Don't worry about it 'Drowned Out', this is just a line people are now spinning when their comments are challenged or contradicted. I was also accused of being 'unwilling to discuss the issue' in the Palestine thread, after 17 pages of discussing the issue, and of backing everything I said with links and sources.

          Apparently, if you say something that people don't agree with, then you're unwilling to have a dialogue, or to discuss the issue. Although it appears that the word 'dialogue' can now also be applied to the posting of a smilie.
          :lol:
          ya, I've been quietly following that thread, and noticed what you refer to. You're right; people seem to like to accuse others of being inflexible or unyeilding, (or my other fav of late: 'we will have to agree to disagree' once their 'points' have been thoroughly discredited).....so I wasn't surprised to see the (completely unfounded imo) accusation in that thread, esp given the history between you two....
          Being accused of it in this one did suprise me a bit, tho. Apparently calling someone out on a double-dip of hypocrisy is an offensively aggressive approach to some. Oh well.
        • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
          Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

          Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

          Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product


          so legalize it all.
          that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
          It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
          - Joe Rogan
        • USARAYUSARAY Posts: 517
          (or my other fav of late: 'we will have to agree to disagree' once their 'points'
          ha i think that shows up when two people aren't ever going to agree hey that line is what the mods have said to do when its clear no one is forgivin make your point bud and then agree to disagree
          save you some stress you are all wound up why beat that damn horse of yours oh i know why did you know what the sound of beating a dead horse sounds like yak yak yak lmao
        • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
          brianlux wrote:
          Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

          Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

          That is something to be considered. I spoke with a woman last year when the proposition was put forth in California to legalized marijuana for recreational purposes. She told me she knew growers who were strongly opposed to legalization. So what is the answer? Perhaps strong decriminalization of all drugs. The drug war obviously isn't the answer.

          well of course growers are opposed to it being decriminalised. thatd mean theyd lose customers cause you could just grow it with the tomatoes out the back.
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        • USARAYUSARAY Posts: 517
          nah it won't be legal for us to grow it will be through govt distribution growers
          that's the only way the govt can make money otherwise they won't legalize it
        • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
          My3bika wrote:
          (or my other fav of late: 'we will have to agree to disagree' once their 'points'
          ha i think that shows up when two people aren't ever going to agree hey that line is what the mods have said to do when its clear no one is forgivin make your point bud and then agree to disagree
          save you some stress you are all wound up why beat that damn horse of yours oh i know why did you know what the sound of beating a dead horse sounds like yak yak yak lmao
          not wound up bud at all I beat horse to yak yak I believe what I say purple turtle stress not in me the mods say people excuse it a use when shit backed up can't be then drop topic ignore counter point convenient way admit not shit of full gun gun pow pow lmao
        • My3bika wrote:
          (or my other fav of late: 'we will have to agree to disagree' once their 'points'
          ha i think that shows up when two people aren't ever going to agree hey that line is what the mods have said to do when its clear no one is forgivin make your point bud and then agree to disagree
          save you some stress you are all wound up why beat that damn horse of yours oh i know why did you know what the sound of beating a dead horse sounds like yak yak yak lmao
          not wound up bud at all I beat horse to yak yak I believe what I say purple turtle stress not in me the mods say people excuse it a use when shit backed up can't be then drop topic ignore counter point convenient way admit not shit of full gun gun pow pow lmao

          dude, did you go off your meds?
          what happened?
          guh?

          ???
          If I was to smile and I held out my hand
          If I opened it now would you not understand?
        • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
          My3bika wrote:
          (or my other fav of late: 'we will have to agree to disagree' once their 'points'
          ha i think that shows up when two people aren't ever going to agree hey that line is what the mods have said to do when its clear no one is forgivin make your point bud and then agree to disagree
          save you some stress you are all wound up why beat that damn horse of yours oh i know why did you know what the sound of beating a dead horse sounds like yak yak yak lmao
          not wound up bud at all I beat horse to yak yak I believe what I say purple turtle stress not in me the mods say people excuse it a use when shit backed up can't be then drop topic ignore counter point convenient way admit not shit of full gun gun pow pow lmao

          :lol:
          I get this.
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        • dustinparduedustinpardue Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,829
          Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

          Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

          Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product

          cool.

          blow is too expensive!

          ;)


          maybe that would take the price down
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        • WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
          I apologize in advance if the link does not work. But this is from the late GREAT MILTON FRIEDMON on why drugs should be legalized...


          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY
        • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
          in my opinion....
          the only drug that should be legalized is weed, it should have been done
          well over a decade ago
          so...
          lets get on with it already
        • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
          we can't legalize marijuana cigarettes because the very large hump that is bunk ass america doesn't believe in freedoms and the use of a weed flowering plant as well as its cousin the hemp plant that would generate insane amounts of products such as clothing and rope

          "marijuana users and gays will burn in hell. praise the lord." - bunk ass americans
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        • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
          chadwick wrote:
          we can't legalize marijuana cigarettes because the very large hump that is bunk ass america doesn't believe in freedoms and the use of a weed flowering plant as well as its cousin the hemp plant that would generate insane amounts of products such as clothing and rope

          "marijuana users and gays will burn in hell. praise the lord." - bunk ass americans



          and that is a hell I can see myself in...I bet it would be fun as hell...throw in the porn community and 80's rock starts and you got yourself one hell of a party
          that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
          It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
          - Joe Rogan
        • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
          mikepegg44 wrote:
          Maybe the United States needs to consider some sort of emergency executive order decriminalizing marijuana, and have obama form an immediate taskforce for the implementation of a federally regulated sales & distribution system for it?

          Or would violence then ensue between the gangs and legitimate growers \ distributors \ retailers, etc. ?

          Decriminalize marijuana and the cartel's will just change their main product


          so legalize it all.

          The only way legalizing everything is if crack and heroin are given away to addicts for free by government agencies. Because for one thing, no way does any legitimate company start selling a product that if used correctly can result in instant death. If they did the first time a junkie OD's his family sues the company and they go broke. So with that taken into consideration if people wanted to buy crack or heroin they would still need to buy it from some shady guy on the corner, who could charge whatever he wanted for it and the addicts would still be stealing shit to get the money to pay for it. I would be ok with giving shit away for free but I think a lot of people would have problems (especially sick people) with the fact that they have to pay for their medication to stay alive, while some guy who wants to get high can get government funded crack.

        • The only way legalizing everything is if crack and heroin are given away to addicts for free by government agencies. Because for one thing, no way does any legitimate company start selling a product that if used correctly can result in instant death. If they did the first time a junkie OD's his family sues the company and they go broke. So with that taken into consideration if people wanted to buy crack or heroin they would still need to buy it from some shady guy on the corner, who could charge whatever he wanted for it and the addicts would still be stealing shit to get the money to pay for it. I would be ok with giving shit away for free but I think a lot of people would have problems (especially sick people) with the fact that they have to pay for their medication to stay alive, while some guy who wants to get high can get government funded crack.

          Do people currently successfully sue alcohol companies when someone od's on that?
        • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952

          The only way legalizing everything is if crack and heroin are given away to addicts for free by government agencies. Because for one thing, no way does any legitimate company start selling a product that if used correctly can result in instant death. If they did the first time a junkie OD's his family sues the company and they go broke. So with that taken into consideration if people wanted to buy crack or heroin they would still need to buy it from some shady guy on the corner, who could charge whatever he wanted for it and the addicts would still be stealing shit to get the money to pay for it. I would be ok with giving shit away for free but I think a lot of people would have problems (especially sick people) with the fact that they have to pay for their medication to stay alive, while some guy who wants to get high can get government funded crack.

          Do people currently successfully sue alcohol companies when someone od's on that?

          Of course not, but it is almost impossible to die of alcohol poisoning after a couple of drinks which is what most people would call reasonable use (although people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much). I don't think it is unheard of to die after using heroin a couple of times. Especially since it is easy to slap a label on a bottle of rum that says please use in moderation, but what exactly is moderation for heroin use (would they have dosage recommendations on the package)? And even if the lawsuits wouldn't be successful, how many companies would want to gamble to find out since getting sued still costs money even if you don't lose?

        • The only way legalizing everything is if crack and heroin are given away to addicts for free by government agencies. Because for one thing, no way does any legitimate company start selling a product that if used correctly can result in instant death. If they did the first time a junkie OD's his family sues the company and they go broke. So with that taken into consideration if people wanted to buy crack or heroin they would still need to buy it from some shady guy on the corner, who could charge whatever he wanted for it and the addicts would still be stealing shit to get the money to pay for it. I would be ok with giving shit away for free but I think a lot of people would have problems (especially sick people) with the fact that they have to pay for their medication to stay alive, while some guy who wants to get high can get government funded crack.

          Do people currently successfully sue alcohol companies when someone od's on that?

          Of course not, but it is almost impossible to die of alcohol poisoning after a couple of drinks which is what most people would call reasonable use (although people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much). I don't think it is unheard of to die after using heroin a couple of times. Especially since it is easy to slap a label on a bottle of rum that says please use in moderation, but what exactly is moderation for heroin use (would they have dosage recommendations on the package)? And even if the lawsuits wouldn't be successful, how many companies would want to gamble to find out since getting sued still costs money even if you don't lose?

          It doesn't matter what you "think" would happen. Everything you are preaching about here is mere conjecture on your part. It is entirely possible that someone could come up with a business plan that would offer the product with appropriate use guidelines and still be profitable regardless of whether or not litigation could potentially become pending. In response to me, you mention people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much. I ask you, have bars gone extinct or do they still exist?

          I find it interesting enough to know that before heroin was banned it was used as an alternative to morphine in the medical industry. Keeping in mind that it was banned due to recreational use, not medicinal use.
        • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
          Do people currently successfully sue alcohol companies when someone od's on that?

          Of course not, but it is almost impossible to die of alcohol poisoning after a couple of drinks which is what most people would call reasonable use (although people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much). I don't think it is unheard of to die after using heroin a couple of times. Especially since it is easy to slap a label on a bottle of rum that says please use in moderation, but what exactly is moderation for heroin use (would they have dosage recommendations on the package)? And even if the lawsuits wouldn't be successful, how many companies would want to gamble to find out since getting sued still costs money even if you don't lose?

          It doesn't matter what you "think" would happen. Everything you are preaching about here is mere conjecture on your part. It is entirely possible that someone could come up with a business plan that would offer the product with appropriate use guidelines and still be profitable regardless of whether or not litigation could potentially become pending. In response to me, you mention people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much. I ask you, have bars gone extinct or do they still exist?

          I find it interesting enough to know that before heroin was banned it was used as an alternative to morphine in the medical industry. Keeping in mind that it was banned due to recreational use, not medicinal use.
          It is preaching to give an opposite opinion :? your use of the word here makes your tone sound
          arrogant and dismissive to the other poster.

          Sorry but gotta love it ... "a business plan" to make these drugs profitable :fp: ...
          yeah, thats just what we need, another parasite corporation who cares nothing for
          the health and safety of people :twisted:
        • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056

          The only way legalizing everything is if crack and heroin are given away to addicts for free by government agencies. Because for one thing, no way does any legitimate company start selling a product that if used correctly can result in instant death. If they did the first time a junkie OD's his family sues the company and they go broke. So with that taken into consideration if people wanted to buy crack or heroin they would still need to buy it from some shady guy on the corner, who could charge whatever he wanted for it and the addicts would still be stealing shit to get the money to pay for it. I would be ok with giving shit away for free but I think a lot of people would have problems (especially sick people) with the fact that they have to pay for their medication to stay alive, while some guy who wants to get high can get government funded crack.

          Do people currently successfully sue alcohol companies when someone od's on that?

          Of course not, but it is almost impossible to die of alcohol poisoning after a couple of drinks which is what most people would call reasonable use (although people have sued bars for serving intoxicated people who end up dying from drinking too much). I don't think it is unheard of to die after using heroin a couple of times. Especially since it is easy to slap a label on a bottle of rum that says please use in moderation, but what exactly is moderation for heroin use (would they have dosage recommendations on the package)? And even if the lawsuits wouldn't be successful, how many companies would want to gamble to find out since getting sued still costs money even if you don't lose?
          You can overdose on just about any drug the first time if you don't know what you're consuming. Heroin, coke, meth, are no different. That's kinda the whole point of legalizing hard drugs - harm reduction. Making sure people know what they're getting is a huge step in this. Heroin deaths spike when really GOOD heroin makes it to the street - people assume they can use the same amount they always use, but it turns out to be less cut than their usual supply, and the purity catches them by surprise.
          I'm not a doctor, but I don't think I'm going out on a ledge to say that drug deaths are almost always due to overdose, or heart problems. If production is regulated and quality controlled, you can easily give a 'recommended dosage', with the usual disclaimers about side effects (ie: not recommended for people with heart conditions etc). No different than any other pharmaceutical.
        This discussion has been closed.