Education

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

Has anyone looked into taking a class from Coursera? It's free college classes over the internet through a colaberation between Penn, Michigan, Stanford, and Princeton.

https://www.coursera.org/

Anyway, I think this is a new way of providing education and warrants being mentioned in this thread. It's free and available to anyone in the world (providing your government does not have a huge firewall on web content).

I've been considering taking A History of the World since 1300.

yes, that is what I was referring to with the SEE program. It stands for Stanford Engineering Everywhere I believe!

It is very exciting to think about where this can go

Jason P

catefrances wrote:

want to be study buddies?

I still have to decide on if I want to pull the trigger.

On one hand it sounds cool and enlightening. On the other hand, I have to do homework. :( As the great Sergeant Roger Murtaugh once said, I'm getting too old for this shit.

catefrances

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

want to be study buddies?

I still have to decide on if I want to pull the trigger.

On one hand it sounds cool and enlightening. On the other hand, I have to do homework. :( As the great Sergeant Roger Murtaugh once said, I'm getting too old for this shit.

but you learn stuff. no one is too old to learn stuff. and history is important and so very interesting. :geek:

polaris_x

mikepegg44 wrote:

I don't think it has to be seen as me first or we first. P

Basically I am saying the current system holds back the students from moving at their own pace. we should be getting away from the we focus that makes students who could have nothing more than age in common when talking about their development be in the same classes learning the same things.
That and college and universities are so expensive now and there is less and less real tangible value attached to the education you receive something has to happen soon. (not an indictment of liberal arts educations value)
Stanford should be commended for being forward thinking with their SEE program. Hopefully this will become part of the new affordability model. I find it refreshing that a traditional university is allowing access to their catalog to people who have not been accepted into that school. Why define your student body based on academic requirements, if classroom space isn't a limitation...why limit your base and your income as a university...why not allow people to take your courses...imagine 5 - 10 dollars at a time for classes...the university could send those classes out to anyone, and all it would take is 5 dollars and the books... would be fantastic considering the amount of students you have out there if you don't bind yourself to the old way of thinking...I am actually pretty excited to see where this goes...

i think when you boil down the problem - that is ultimately what it comes down to ... America has a fundamental problem of not being able to deliver programs efficiently - many people want to say that is inherent in gov't but many countries are able to deliver high quality programs at a fraction of the cost ...

drop out rates are a huge problem ... the discrepancies in basic education quality is a huge problem ... adequate funding is a problem ...

Jason P

mikepegg44 wrote:

yes, that is what I was referring to with the SEE program. It stands for Stanford Engineering Everywhere I believe!

It is very exciting to think about where this can go

I missed that post earlier. Looks like a few of the SEE courses are also available thru Coursera.

I don't know how much a credit cost nowadays, but each class must have well over a $1,000 value to it.

know1

Jason P wrote:

I think parents would oppose a 4-day week because they would have to hire daycare one day a week.

I agree.

While I agree in principal to the OP's post, I do also somewhat like and respect that our kids have somewhere relatively safe and beneficial to go to while their parents are working.

catefrances

know1 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I think parents would oppose a 4-day week because they would have to hire daycare one day a week.

I agree.

While I agree in principal to the OP's post, I do also somewhat like and respect that our kids have somewhere relatively safe and beneficial to go to while their parents are working.

plus there might be some actual learning going on.. and thats always a bonus.

blueandwhite

mikepegg44 wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

Overhauling an education system is not a cheap proposition. Moreover, developing an alternative method of delivery that is actually effective requires considerable research and time to develop. The last thing we need to do as a society is create another education fad which creates more social problems and leaves a generation feeling helpless. I get the distinct impression that any changes we see will be poorly planned and of little benefit to students. While the US government is willing to dump trillions into warfare, I doubt that we'll ever see the necessary R&D to develop a truly cutting-edge education system for American students. Private interests and overt partisan politics don't help the issue either.

so you are saying you would rather stay in the situation we are in, spending WAY too much and get little return on the investment....or spending some of that money figuring out ways to better serve our kids.
I don't think everything needs 10 years of R & D. But as real estate prices go up, and new schools are costing millions and millions of dollars...isn't it time to at least re-think the brick and mortar delivery model for all of our education? In the end that will be cheaper.
We don't want to end up watering our crops with Gatorade do we?

I'm not suggesting that the status quo is the preferred course, but I don't have a lot of faith in government to improve education given that populist nature of modern politics. Any changes to the system will undoubtedly be defined by lobbyists and special-interest groups who have very little concern for the general welfare of young learners. Governments will almost certainly face heavy public scrutiny for their investments which will result in unwanted or unreasonable compromises that could literally defeat the point of making any changes in the first place.

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.

Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.

But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.

Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.

But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).

lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.

mikepegg44

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.

Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.

But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).

lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.

for those who don't know, stats I saw put teachers at ~53 hours a week.

cincybearcat

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.

Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.

But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).

lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.

"more study hall type situations"

" smaller breaks throughout the day"

Pretty sure they could use that time as well.

riotgrl

cincybearcat wrote:

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.

But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).

lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.

"more study hall type situations"

" smaller breaks throughout the day"

Pretty sure they could use that time as well.

I teach high school and actual school hours are about 45 but add in time at home and on the weekends, it is definitely closer to 50-55. And I've worked at schools with study halls, etc. and usually these periods are used for remediation which means the teacher is tutoring; it's not just the kids studying on their own.

We need wholesale change of the entire system but that would require buy-in from teachers, administration, and parents. As I stated before though, these are NOT the groups passing edicts - it is usually people at the Board, the State, and the Federal govt. There are ways to make our kids more competitive but until those groups get the real say, you will continue to see small changes that follow the current political wind that are reversed as soon as the new political unit comes into office. Just my .02 for what it's worth.

cincybearcat

How many hours a week june through august?

riotgrl

cincybearcat wrote:

How many hours a week june through august?

Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?

So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:

cincybearcat

riotgrl wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

How many hours a week june through august?

Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?

So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:

I didn't say that. But it is a nice big chunk of time that can be used for all the things you mentioned to get prepared for the school year.

And if you think people in other jobs don't spend huge amounts of time away from their families due to work, then I'm not sure what to say.

All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.

but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.

cincybearcat

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.

but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.

So, how would working a longer set schedule (with time within that day to do some of the stuff they currently do from 2:30-5:00 pm or so anyhow) effect them? If they are working these hours anyhow then you have no argument for the point you keep bringing up.

And please, you don't think that I know that teachers have kids too and have dual career relationships? I just don't see how they are effected negatively by this. They are spending the time working anyhow.

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.

but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.

So, how would working a longer set schedule (with time within that day to do some of the stuff they currently do from 2:30-5:00 pm or so anyhow) effect them? If they are working these hours anyhow then you have no argument for the point you keep bringing up.

And please, you don't think that I know that teachers have kids too and have dual career relationships? I just don't see how they are effected negatively by this. They are spending the time working anyhow.

well simply put not all schools keep the same hours. but tbh i think the hours schools do keep could be put to better use. i think there should be more flexibility to allow for the different skill levels of the student body. why are kids forced to study subjects they clearly have no aptitude for? do high schools for example exist just to funnel kids into tertiary education? and conversely for those left behind, the work force. should more vocational subjects be made available? i think so.

i think its just simpler for the powers that be to keep the status quo. its a shame some governments including my own dont see education as a higher priority. kids really are the future leaders and if we feed them crap then theyre gonna come out less than we expect and less than they deserve.

BinFrog

I'm questioning our education
Is our education outdated now?
While we're discussing, we've been thinking
Looking around at the present schools

If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers, now?

I'm questioning our shortened school year
Is summer off relevant still now?
The summer camps and the pick up ball games
See the kid who can't subtract or divide

If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers?
A smart world, figured this out long ago
We'll be lacking in expertise. ahhhh yeaaah ahhhhh

I'm questioning
our education
Comparing
what does it show?
Could be
the Chinese will own math
and we'll be slow
wondering why we stopped growing.