Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.
Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.
But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).
lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.
for those who don't know, stats I saw put teachers at ~53 hours a week.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Listening to the radio I heard about a 4 day week change that some schools are meeting resistance on in MN...why does it matter if the educational standards are met?.
Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.
But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).
lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.
Personally I think the school system should change to reflect todays society. No more early release days (seriously, what is up with that?), etc. Make it year round school. Longer school day, use the extra time to provide more study hall type situations for kids. Provide smaller breaks throughout the day and with activities to help break it all up. No cramming it all in 8-230, Sept-May.
But hey, maybe that's just me. More families are dual working parent families, why don't we have a school system that helps kids learn better while actually helping out the families schedules (you know, the customers of the school system?).
lets not forget that teachers may well be half of a dual working parental unit themselvs... so whose schedule are you going to follow? teachers dont just walk into the classroom at 8 and walk out again at 230. they need to prepare, they need to make sure they know more than the kids and they need to take into account every individual students needs so those longer working hours you think might be a good idea.. theyre already working.
"more study hall type situations"
" smaller breaks throughout the day"
Pretty sure they could use that time as well.
I teach high school and actual school hours are about 45 but add in time at home and on the weekends, it is definitely closer to 50-55. And I've worked at schools with study halls, etc. and usually these periods are used for remediation which means the teacher is tutoring; it's not just the kids studying on their own.
We need wholesale change of the entire system but that would require buy-in from teachers, administration, and parents. As I stated before though, these are NOT the groups passing edicts - it is usually people at the Board, the State, and the Federal govt. There are ways to make our kids more competitive but until those groups get the real say, you will continue to see small changes that follow the current political wind that are reversed as soon as the new political unit comes into office. Just my .02 for what it's worth.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?
So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?
So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:
I didn't say that. But it is a nice big chunk of time that can be used for all the things you mentioned to get prepared for the school year.
And if you think people in other jobs don't spend huge amounts of time away from their families due to work, then I'm not sure what to say.
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.
So, how would working a longer set schedule (with time within that day to do some of the stuff they currently do from 2:30-5:00 pm or so anyhow) effect them? If they are working these hours anyhow then you have no argument for the point you keep bringing up.
And please, you don't think that I know that teachers have kids too and have dual career relationships? I just don't see how they are effected negatively by this. They are spending the time working anyhow.
...
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.
So, how would working a longer set schedule (with time within that day to do some of the stuff they currently do from 2:30-5:00 pm or so anyhow) effect them? If they are working these hours anyhow then you have no argument for the point you keep bringing up.
And please, you don't think that I know that teachers have kids too and have dual career relationships? I just don't see how they are effected negatively by this. They are spending the time working anyhow.
well simply put not all schools keep the same hours. but tbh i think the hours schools do keep could be put to better use. i think there should be more flexibility to allow for the different skill levels of the student body. why are kids forced to study subjects they clearly have no aptitude for? do high schools for example exist just to funnel kids into tertiary education? and conversely for those left behind, the work force. should more vocational subjects be made available? i think so.
i think its just simpler for the powers that be to keep the status quo. its a shame some governments including my own dont see education as a higher priority. kids really are the future leaders and if we feed them crap then theyre gonna come out less than we expect and less than they deserve.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm questioning our education
Is our education outdated now?
While we're discussing, we've been thinking
Looking around at the present schools
If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers, now?
I'm questioning our shortened school year
Is summer off relevant still now?
The summer camps and the pick up ball games
See the kid who can't subtract or divide
If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers?
A smart world, figured this out long ago
We'll be lacking in expertise. ahhhh yeaaah ahhhhh
I'm questioning
our education
Comparing
what does it show?
Could be
the Chinese will own math
and we'll be slow
wondering why we stopped growing.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
1. A longer school year. This 2 months off shit is garbage.
2. school hours extended. 8-3:30?
3. More intensive and practical curriculum.
4. More opportunities for trade school education. Not everyone will be going to college, and if someone wants to become a mechanic, carpenter, etc, education should be provided that directly relates to these fields.
5. Education should not be about $$$. Unfortunately, like everything else in this country, the corporatization of the education system is detrimental. Not everyone should be pushed to go to expensive universities. This push begins in high school.
6. Stop pushing poor students through to higher grades. if a student has a C or a 75 or below average, LEAVE THEM BEHIND.
7. Smaller classrooms. Friends and family members, due to budget cuts, have classes of 25-29 or more. This is not a good learning environment.
Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?
So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:
I didn't say that. But it is a nice big chunk of time that can be used for all the things you mentioned to get prepared for the school year.
And if you think people in other jobs don't spend huge amounts of time away from their families due to work, then I'm not sure what to say.
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
I never said that other professions don't spend time away from their families. I was simply acknowledging that teachers, in fact, spend as much time working and away from their families as those people do; that we aren't doing nothing from June through August.
My earlier posts about this topic specifically mentioned a more flexible schedule for school. Although, if we're really discussing educational change, I am really talking about change at the high school level. What do we REALLY want from education? A babysitter to fit in with our work schedules? Elementary schools are failing not in schedules and not in content but in the perception that every kid should move to the next grade even when they don't master the basic material. Most kids aren't even considered for retention until 3rd grade because that's when the discrepancies in learning really start to become apparent. Honestly, as I said I teach high school I can't give as educated an opinion about changes at that level as others can but I do know some changes that need to be made at the high school level. I mentioned several before but, you're right, we all have our different ideas of how to fix the system. It's too bad that the focus is usually on petty issues rather than real change. I feel that if parents, teachers, kids and the administration at the school formulated a plan to effect change then great things could happen if everyone had an open mind about what that change might look like.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
1. A longer school year. This 2 months off shit is garbage.
2. school hours extended. 8-3:30?
3. More intensive and practical curriculum.
4. More opportunities for trade school education. Not everyone will be going to college, and if someone wants to become a mechanic, carpenter, etc, education should be provided that directly relates to these fields.
5. Education should not be about $$$. Unfortunately, like everything else in this country, the corporatization of the education system is detrimental. Not everyone should be pushed to go to expensive universities. This push begins in high school.
6. Stop pushing poor students through to higher grades. if a student has a C or a 75 or below average, LEAVE THEM BEHIND.
7. Smaller classrooms. Friends and family members, due to budget cuts, have classes of 25-29 or more. This is not a good learning environment.
This. This would be a start but as was mentioned earlier its all about the status quo. It's broke but it's too scary to change it.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Comments
for those who don't know, stats I saw put teachers at ~53 hours a week.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
"more study hall type situations"
" smaller breaks throughout the day"
Pretty sure they could use that time as well.
I teach high school and actual school hours are about 45 but add in time at home and on the weekends, it is definitely closer to 50-55. And I've worked at schools with study halls, etc. and usually these periods are used for remediation which means the teacher is tutoring; it's not just the kids studying on their own.
We need wholesale change of the entire system but that would require buy-in from teachers, administration, and parents. As I stated before though, these are NOT the groups passing edicts - it is usually people at the Board, the State, and the Federal govt. There are ways to make our kids more competitive but until those groups get the real say, you will continue to see small changes that follow the current political wind that are reversed as soon as the new political unit comes into office. Just my .02 for what it's worth.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Depends...not a full 8 hour day but I do spend most of my summer creating lesson plans, reading books and professional journals, and attending professional development seminars - many times spending huge amounts of time away from my family. I shouldn't still be surprised that people think teachers laze about all summer but that does seem to be the general consensus :?
So if I average 45 hours a week during the school year for 40 weeks (1800 hours) and roughly 20 hours per week during the summer and breaks (about 12 weeks total is about 240 hours) that means I work an average of 39 hours per week for 52 weeks/1 year. About the same as anyone else. Sorry, for a teacher this really hits a nerve :fp:
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I didn't say that. But it is a nice big chunk of time that can be used for all the things you mentioned to get prepared for the school year.
And if you think people in other jobs don't spend huge amounts of time away from their families due to work, then I'm not sure what to say.
All I'm saying is, we have a reality. That reality is working parents. Lets figure out how to balance it all to work out for all. The customers of the process are the kids and the parents. Their needs should be met first and foremost. I'm sure that most, if not all, teachers agree to that statement. BUt as with anything else, we all have our different ideas on how to best accomplish that.
but dont you see.. those teachers you say should be more flexible towards their 'customers' may well be customers themselves. people with teaching degrees dont stop breeding once they hand it on their wall.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So, how would working a longer set schedule (with time within that day to do some of the stuff they currently do from 2:30-5:00 pm or so anyhow) effect them? If they are working these hours anyhow then you have no argument for the point you keep bringing up.
And please, you don't think that I know that teachers have kids too and have dual career relationships? I just don't see how they are effected negatively by this. They are spending the time working anyhow.
well simply put not all schools keep the same hours. but tbh i think the hours schools do keep could be put to better use. i think there should be more flexibility to allow for the different skill levels of the student body. why are kids forced to study subjects they clearly have no aptitude for? do high schools for example exist just to funnel kids into tertiary education? and conversely for those left behind, the work force. should more vocational subjects be made available? i think so.
i think its just simpler for the powers that be to keep the status quo. its a shame some governments including my own dont see education as a higher priority. kids really are the future leaders and if we feed them crap then theyre gonna come out less than we expect and less than they deserve.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Is our education outdated now?
While we're discussing, we've been thinking
Looking around at the present schools
If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers, now?
I'm questioning our shortened school year
Is summer off relevant still now?
The summer camps and the pick up ball games
See the kid who can't subtract or divide
If I'd been taught with new approaches
Could I quit flipping burgers?
A smart world, figured this out long ago
We'll be lacking in expertise. ahhhh yeaaah ahhhhh
I'm questioning
our education
Comparing
what does it show?
Could be
the Chinese will own math
and we'll be slow
wondering why we stopped growing.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
2. school hours extended. 8-3:30?
3. More intensive and practical curriculum.
4. More opportunities for trade school education. Not everyone will be going to college, and if someone wants to become a mechanic, carpenter, etc, education should be provided that directly relates to these fields.
5. Education should not be about $$$. Unfortunately, like everything else in this country, the corporatization of the education system is detrimental. Not everyone should be pushed to go to expensive universities. This push begins in high school.
6. Stop pushing poor students through to higher grades. if a student has a C or a 75 or below average, LEAVE THEM BEHIND.
7. Smaller classrooms. Friends and family members, due to budget cuts, have classes of 25-29 or more. This is not a good learning environment.
I never said that other professions don't spend time away from their families. I was simply acknowledging that teachers, in fact, spend as much time working and away from their families as those people do; that we aren't doing nothing from June through August.
My earlier posts about this topic specifically mentioned a more flexible schedule for school. Although, if we're really discussing educational change, I am really talking about change at the high school level. What do we REALLY want from education? A babysitter to fit in with our work schedules? Elementary schools are failing not in schedules and not in content but in the perception that every kid should move to the next grade even when they don't master the basic material. Most kids aren't even considered for retention until 3rd grade because that's when the discrepancies in learning really start to become apparent. Honestly, as I said I teach high school I can't give as educated an opinion about changes at that level as others can but I do know some changes that need to be made at the high school level. I mentioned several before but, you're right, we all have our different ideas of how to fix the system. It's too bad that the focus is usually on petty issues rather than real change. I feel that if parents, teachers, kids and the administration at the school formulated a plan to effect change then great things could happen if everyone had an open mind about what that change might look like.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
This. This would be a start but as was mentioned earlier its all about the status quo. It's broke but it's too scary to change it.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE