Norway Gunman (a-hole)

Jason P
Jason P Posts: 19,432
edited June 2012 in A Moving Train
Insane testimony. I can't believe they are letting this testimony outside of the courts.

Dude deserves to be tortured IMO. As it is, this is absolute best-case scenario for him. He is giddy about it.

What is Norway thinking?
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • CH156378
    CH156378 Posts: 1,539
    +1 :sick:
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Jason P wrote:
    Insane testimony. I can't believe they are letting this testimony outside of the courts.

    Dude deserves to be tortured IMO. As it is, this is absolute best-case scenario for him. He is giddy about it.

    What is Norway thinking?

    It's a good thing to make/keep it open, no? Hear his testimony, not hide it.

    I think Norway wants to really work out why this happened, the people want to know. Why not let it all out?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i don't see what the problem with allowing the testimony to be made public ... really - unless the victim's families collectively do not want it then sure ... but healing and fixing problems start with understanding the problem ...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited April 2012
    Whilst I really don't want this guy to have a platform, there have been a number of interviews with the victims' families and, for them it would seem, hearing the 'why' is helpful. Cameras had been asked to leave the courts when he made his 'statement' to avoid his propaganda. Also, his testimony is not broadcast on TV (just to the other courtrooms). The media are reporting as they wish, lingering on whatever they wish to linger on.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    The biggest problem I have with making his testimony public is because it will inspire the next round of nut-jobs.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    The biggest problem I have with making his testimony public is because it will inspire the next round of nut-jobs.

    you can't battle ignorance by hiding it ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    Healing? I don't know if this will lead to healing or more trauma.

    The first part of his plan succeeded and the second part is going better then he could have possibly imagined. Now he has pen-pals and a world stage at his command to facilitate his beliefs.

    Good luck, Europe.
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  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    The biggest problem I have with making his testimony public is because it will inspire the next round of nut-jobs.

    you can't battle ignorance by hiding it ...
    you can't spread ignorance without broadcasting it ... as evidenced by your comments in topics such as The Nuge.

    What if this guy was a corporation?
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    you can't spread ignorance without broadcasting it ... as evidenced by your comments in topics such as The Nuge.

    What if this guy was a corporation?

    uhh ... what are you referring to in the nuge thread?

    i have maintained all along that transparency is important ... in the trayvon martin issue ... everything ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    polaris_x wrote:

    uhh ... what are you referring to in the nuge thread?

    i have maintained all along that transparency is important ... in the trayvon martin issue ... everything ...
    corporate controlled media keeping America ignorant.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    corporate controlled media keeping America ignorant.

    ok ... and what is the relevance? ... the corporately controlled media IS keeping americans ignorant ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    Transparency …

    Who did this guy model and plagiarize his manifesto on? Remember Ted Kaczynski and how he got his way and had the Washington Post and NY times publish his thoughts? How did that work out?

    And now he is describing in great detail to the entire world how he planed and executed his attack.

    His preparation of materials, weapons, clothing.

    Simulation training methods.

    How to disguise.

    Stress control.

    What differs from TV and reality and how future killers can prepare themselves for those moments.

    Attacking the biggest threats before executing the weak.

    It is all there now for others to analyze. I'm not against having experts study his thoughts, but to deliver that information to the entire world is dangerous. And for Norway to allow him to have open communication with up to 20 pen-pals is downright condemnable and negligent.

    Speaking of Pen Pals, Kevin Forts, 23, of Massachusetts … unlike anyone on this forum, you sir are about to learn first-hand about the Patriot Act.

    ****

    His testimony was physically revolting. Inside the Oslo court, a man who lost his son on the island closed his eyes hard, squeezing them shut. Another man to his left put a comforting hand to his shoulder. A woman to his right clutched onto him, resting her forehead against his arm.

    Breivik said he was deliberately using "technical" language as a way to keep his composure.

    Yeah, that sure sounds like healing to me …
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    there is transparency and then there is extortion ...

    just because you don't like the words coming out his mouth - doesn't mean we can't be better because of it ... healing doesn't only come from hearing the good ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    polaris_x wrote:
    there is transparency and then there is extortion ...

    just because you don't like the words coming out his mouth - doesn't mean we can't be better because of it ... healing doesn't only come from hearing the good ...
    I don't like that insane people can hear the words coming out of his mouth. That's what bothers and concerns me.

    Let the families hear it if it helps the healing process (although it is my opinion that more damage is being done due to his brutal and thorough description), so be it. But outside of the courthouse, it should be censored.

    What are your thoughts on pen pals being allowed?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    I don't like that insane people can hear the words coming out of his mouth. That's what bothers and concerns me.

    Let the families hear it if it helps the healing process (although it is my opinion that more damage is being done due to his brutal and thorough description), so be it. But outside of the courthouse, it should be censored.

    What are your thoughts on pen pals being allowed?

    well ... it's no surprise we disagree here philosophically ... ;)

    it's like racism and abuse and bullying and everything else ... we don't tackle these issues by burying its existence and its prevalence in society ... people want to believe that these people don't exist or that they are of little relevance ...
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    I don't like that insane people can hear the words coming out of his mouth. That's what bothers and concerns me.

    Let the families hear it if it helps the healing process (although it is my opinion that more damage is being done due to his brutal and thorough description), so be it. But outside of the courthouse, it should be censored.

    What are your thoughts on pen pals being allowed?

    well ... it's no surprise we disagree here philosophically ... ;)

    it's like racism and abuse and bullying and everything else ... we don't tackle these issues by burying its existence and its prevalence in society ... people want to believe that these people don't exist or that they are of little relevance ...
    Discussion of topics like this is very important, I agree, polaris (hey, we're all here on AMT right). But I think inherent to Jason's point is that this situation is NOT like racism, abuse, bullying, etc. For most folks committing those moral crimes, it's not a crusade or a cause. Bullies don't bully bc they believe bullying is the only way to go, so to speak. Most folks aren't racist b/c they think the other race should be eradicated or because they want everyone else to be racist just like them, generally these days racism shows up in more subtle ways (though I'm sure there are exceptions).

    Part of the purpose of having a "cause" and creating a "disturbance" (to understate this situation immeasurably) is to draw attention to that cause. Giving him a public voice furthers that aspect of this guy's fucked up goal system.

    Giving him a public voice may also do the things you describe, polaris, but then you get into the murky waters of whether more good or bad comes of it. Some good might, but if even one person is influenced on the bad side of the balance, the nature of this situation is such that the results of that negative influence would be so egregiously bad as to make the risk not worth it from the jump.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    MotoDC wrote:
    Giving him a public voice may also do the things you describe, polaris, but then you get into the murky waters of whether more good or bad comes of it. Some good might, but if even one person is influenced on the bad side of the balance, the nature of this situation is such that the results of that negative influence would be so egregiously bad as to make the risk not worth it from the jump.

    for sure ... this is why i say it's a philosophical difference of opinion ... i believe the horrors of events like this need to be shared in full ... just like the holocaust and just like the vietnam war ... and it is why i believe in wikileaks and the information put forth ... you will find truth in transparency and in truth you will find peace ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    polaris_x wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:
    Giving him a public voice may also do the things you describe, polaris, but then you get into the murky waters of whether more good or bad comes of it. Some good might, but if even one person is influenced on the bad side of the balance, the nature of this situation is such that the results of that negative influence would be so egregiously bad as to make the risk not worth it from the jump.

    for sure ... this is why i say it's a philosophical difference of opinion ... i believe the horrors of events like this need to be shared in full ... just like the holocaust and just like the vietnam war ... and it is why i believe in wikileaks and the information put forth ... you will find truth in transparency and in truth you will find peace ...
    The horrors, yes ... the strategy, no.

    The sad thing is he knew that this is how it would play out. He knew his country would allow this based on precedence. It's part of his plan that he is continuing to carry out.

    The event hasn't ended, it's just begun.

    (This is why the US had Bin Laden on a shoot-on-site order and dumped him in the sea.)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    The horrors, yes ... the strategy, no.

    The sad thing is he knew that this is how it would play out. He knew his country would allow this based on precedence. It's part of his plan that he is continuing to carry out.

    The event hasn't ended, it's just begun.

    (This is why the US had Bin Laden on a shoot-on-site order and dumped him in the sea.)

    unless you can show me some proof that him being allowed to say what he's saying is going to be a bad consequence - it doesn't change anything ... the US is great at covering things up ... is it in a better place where these sort of events occur every year? ...

    the reason why people like osama and saddam don't get their day in court is because the US would be embarrassed by what they know ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,432
    polaris_x wrote:
    unless you can show me some proof that him being allowed to say what he's saying is going to be a bad consequence - it doesn't change anything ... the US is great at covering things up ... is it in a better place where these sort of events occur every year? ...

    the reason why people like osama and saddam don't get their day in court is because the US would be embarrassed by what they know ...
    I already used the Unibomber as exhibit "A" of what giving madmen a public platform can result in. Pen Pals as exhibit "B". Family members being mortified and appalled as exhibit "C". We may have to wait a few years before I can give you exhibit "D".

    I think saddam got his day in court (although to say the cards were stacked against him is an understatement. Osama didn't deserve a date in court and it was a good move by our Nobel Peace Prize winning president (and I don't say that in jest).
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!

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