Preventing kids from "objectionable" art
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
this has long been a topic of interest to me. To relate a personal anecdote, as a kid, i was 10 in 1991, and obviously was hugely altered by the music of the time especially grunge. and like many parents back then, my parents didnt understand that the songs meant something to me and my generation, even at age 10. I knew the music was special even back then, even before i could really articulate why or how. i just knew. Anyways, they took away my Nevermind and In Utero tapes, because they felt the content of the songs were jarring and inappropriate, and i was singing the songs to them at dinner. I dont agree with what my parents did, i dont think taking away music from a child, a teen, is wise nor is it productive nor will it alter the child's view of the thing. I couldnt listen to the music on my own, but if i was around people who listened to it, i could listen to the albums. this was of course in the days before napster and filesharing,
So my question for all of you is, did similar things happen to you as a kid? maybe not with nirvana specifically, but maybe hip hop, or books, or movies, did you parents prevent you from some of that stuff?
And the second part of this is just an open ended question of, i do obviously think real young kids should be shielded from violent or objectionable art or images or music, or books. But what age is it okay? Will you and do you prevent your kids from some movies and music? What about when they are teens? How do you decide whats objectionable and whats okay? If i have a kid, when they turn 13, i plan on giving them all the music, books, movies, that got me through the teen years and continue to get me through. I wish my parents had done that with me. Lets face it, Nirvana and art isnt the enemy. Its what got me through those years. Its what got me through last year. Its what will get me through this year. And some of that stuff has content on it that is objectionable.
Nowadays i dont think you can really prevent kids from viewing that type of art. A parent in 2012 may not want their kid to listen to the new hip hop album of the week, but theres really no way a parent can prevent the child from hearing it. Thats troubling when we are talking about a 7 year old, but not so much in my view when we talk about a teen. same with movies and books. its all so accessible.
Specific examples I guess would be something like Thirteen, or Kids, hip hop, many many albums of various genres, books. Is their content there that isnt appropriate? absolutely. but im not sure that preventing people from viewing that art is the answer. But also in those pieces of work, are important things. Important lessons. ideas, themes. Ive long viewed art, my own and others as allowing me to work through and understand and make sense of the world. its how i deal with it all. And when someone is prevented from that outlet, i dont think thats helpful at all.
I think you prevent young kids obviously from access and viewing it, but i think once they become a teen they should have access to all movies, and music, and books. i think its essential even.
So my question for all of you is, did similar things happen to you as a kid? maybe not with nirvana specifically, but maybe hip hop, or books, or movies, did you parents prevent you from some of that stuff?
And the second part of this is just an open ended question of, i do obviously think real young kids should be shielded from violent or objectionable art or images or music, or books. But what age is it okay? Will you and do you prevent your kids from some movies and music? What about when they are teens? How do you decide whats objectionable and whats okay? If i have a kid, when they turn 13, i plan on giving them all the music, books, movies, that got me through the teen years and continue to get me through. I wish my parents had done that with me. Lets face it, Nirvana and art isnt the enemy. Its what got me through those years. Its what got me through last year. Its what will get me through this year. And some of that stuff has content on it that is objectionable.
Nowadays i dont think you can really prevent kids from viewing that type of art. A parent in 2012 may not want their kid to listen to the new hip hop album of the week, but theres really no way a parent can prevent the child from hearing it. Thats troubling when we are talking about a 7 year old, but not so much in my view when we talk about a teen. same with movies and books. its all so accessible.
Specific examples I guess would be something like Thirteen, or Kids, hip hop, many many albums of various genres, books. Is their content there that isnt appropriate? absolutely. but im not sure that preventing people from viewing that art is the answer. But also in those pieces of work, are important things. Important lessons. ideas, themes. Ive long viewed art, my own and others as allowing me to work through and understand and make sense of the world. its how i deal with it all. And when someone is prevented from that outlet, i dont think thats helpful at all.
I think you prevent young kids obviously from access and viewing it, but i think once they become a teen they should have access to all movies, and music, and books. i think its essential even.
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not that it was even bad, its just that she didn't like it.. or she didn't like certain people
bill cosby for one...not bad at all for a kid...but she didn't like him so i wasn't allowed to listen
the Beatles...no way...don't ask me why she objected to them but she did...then when i was a teenager she started humming Beatles songs while cooking dinner each night..go figure
she probably heard something from one of her friends and didn't really know one way or the other
a lot of stuff like that
meanwhile she and her friends read playboy... for the stories.. i never quite figured that one out
anyway, no i don't agree with keeping kids from art unless it promotes violence or sex beyond their years (for instance movies that depict really nasty gorey violence....it depends on what/how or movies with explicit sex in them).
BUT i do have to say that when my own daughter was about 10 years old...and maybe 11, 12..around there...she was going around singing top of her lungs...Nirvana's "Rape Me" ...she had NO IDEA what she was saying. None at all. So I was left with..explain rape to a 10 year old or forbid her to listen to that music. Needless to say, I ended up explaining...in ten year old terms, what the words meant, and she stopped singing it, at least out loud..until she got older that is
I would rather explain objectionable things in terms that a child can relate to and have them decide not to sing it, watch it, whatever, on their own. In my experience, it works out much better that way.
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
I got reprimanded when I was in primary school after a creative writing task. They had started off with a story about a boy and you had to finish it so I said that he got taken to the woods and found the rest of the townsfolk trapped inside a big cage and I explained in detail all the screaming, crying and things that were happening to them.
I think you should keep things age appropriate, kids are going to see things, hear things beyond their years and like Jo said, you just have to do your best to explain it to them.
That's a given but I don't think it's necessary to scare the crap out of them with horror flicks or expose them to sexual content in things either. I've seen some of the highly sexually explicit music videos they have on in the morning??? Why not put that shit on at night?? :roll: having a little girl, it's not right that she should have to see these women with nothing on gyrating and teaching her sex sells. I guess that's my only beef with music these days.
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I think if kids are brought up with openness, honesty and love they'll figure out what is ok and what is not and music in of itself won't change that in them.
Adelaide 1998
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I am about three years away from the sex questions, so I will deal with that when the time comes.
But I would have to say that I wont be playing Rape Me near my kids anytime soon. Same with blood.While the kids do like rock, I try to keep it upbeat, like rocking in the free world!
This reminds me of a funny story...now.
I listened to nirvana when I was 9 or 10. The thing is, all the lyrics and their underlying context just went right over my head at that age. The meaning behind the lyrics were as understandable as a Sigur Ros song. It was just about the music.
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
yes, the words went over her head too..but that didn't stop her from screaming along with the song top of her lungs....thanks big brother :roll:
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
I laugth now
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
I think my parent's smacked my weekly when I was a kid.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
OMG! Oww! I've had a couple of hernia repairs- I can kind of imagine what that felt like (but I don't wanna think about it!
I had a couple in the store yesterday with their four or five year old daughter. The kid was going up and down a row of books shoving them around and I said, "Sweetheart, please don't do that- I'll just have to fix it all later." The mom just kind of shrugged but the dad made punching motions with his hand behind the kids back and had this weird creepy grin on his face. I just told the guy, "Not to worry, it's all good," because I was worried for the kid. Parents like that drive me nuts.
There's definately a line between discipline and abuse. My parents never punched me but when my Dad laid the pimp hand on my ass I knew I did wrong.
brianlux, I think openness and honesty and love is exactly right! My parents (and my husband's parents too) tried to shield me from too much which just made me more curious about those very things.
I remember my parents flipping out when they heard AC/DC's Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
but she did something worse
well. she did 2 things worse
1. She gave me the silent treatment and I was usually not too sure of what thing I did that made her angry
and
2. she always said....Just wait until your father gets home!
And that was a good one...cuz even though my Dad was a nice nice man,
you didn't want to get on the wrong side of him
He used to take off his belt and snap it at us, and we knew we'd better behave
AND he had a bread board with 2 holes drilled in it that he used as a paddle
he called it Papa's Little Persuader
I had to be REALLY REALLY bad to get that....and usually I wasn't
SO..... this went on for years until I was about 14 or so .. and I started getting pretty unruly. I had found out about some of the things that were fun that i was not supposed to be doing ehhemmm
and I was hanging with the hippies and doing my thing..taking it easy, you can imagine
and not coming home when I was supposed to, stuff like that
so my dad, he got sick, and he was in the hospital for a while and lost a bunch of weight
(my dad was always mr. 5 x 5, 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide...he was soooo cute@!)
anyway....so my mom started with the wait until your father gets home
and she was roiling mad about whatever i can't remember
so dad comes home, she tells him all this stuff
he whips off his belt to snap it at me....
and his pants fell to his ankles!
he was standing there in his boxers with his mouth wide open
and i just couldn't help myself but to burst out laughing and laughing and laughing
OMG is was terrible
i knew i was gonna get it but i couldn't stop
AND...it never happened again
I didn't behave any better....he just never did that again (embarrassed himself to the max i guess)
instead he started walking down to the river bridge to New Hope where i would HAVE to walk on my way home from wherever I was over there...probably out in the woods smoking things
and meeting me there
this would be late at night and he had work at 6 am but he did it anyway
he would not say a word, just meet me there and walk the mile + home with me
i knew he was disappointed
and looking back now, i realize that he just wanted to be sure that i was safe
i was his little girl
man...the things we learn when we have kids of our own
so..that got off topic :roll:
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
I got caught shoplifting. :nono:
I went to a record store and swiped the Beatle's single Strawberry Fields.
I got away with that, but went to WT Grants and stole one of those wooden paddles with a ball attached.
I would have got away with it, but I had the immediate need to play with it right in front of the store.
Something like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, thats some heavy stuff. or Kids or Kidulthood the movie. These are heavy movies with some objectionable stuff. But i also think it can be, and alot of times is an essential part of a teen or young persons life. I know im not the only person who works through issues via my own and others art.
My mom always spanked us with that paddle that had the ball attached with a rubber band - remember those? Of course, it didn't hurt and we would laugh and tell her that and she would get SO mad! Just wait until your father gets home - and he would whip off that leather belt and snap it at us. Of course, I only remember him using it one time and that is all it took!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I also think its healthy and imperitive for young kids to have an outlet, something to cling to, to have some comfort. To know healthy ways of dealing with the anger they will feel or sadness or whatever.
I think growing up now is tough. i dont envy the next generation. Its brutal out there. I think its important to support an outlet for older kids to express and come to terms with who they are, and the world around them. art is a major way this is done.
still here-
thats exactly what i was doing, saying the same exact thing. I didnt know what it meant either. Funny thing was, this proves my point. no parent is going to investigate further. They hear their kid say that, and they ban it, or punish, or ground the child. Rape Me, the song, certainly wasnt promoting rape of anyone, it was an explicitly pro-feminist, anti rape song. the fact my parents, and i would assume most parents in 1993 didnt investigate further about the context of it, thats troubling to me and is emblematic of the problem with banning kids from accessing objectionable art. That was my whole point about hip hop. certainly, theres stuff even as a 28 year old, i find disturbing about hip hop. but to ban a kid from listening to it i think is outrageous and pointless. It also is distressing because it assumes art serves only one "purpose". That if its objectionale and explicit then it is bad and that negates ever other aspect of it. Hip hop has major problems and issues, but theres many positives as well. Listening to Tupac or Biggie for example, the main customer of hip hop a kid from the suburbs who is white, may learn about a reality they dont see often, or inequality, or race relations.
The idea that because Rape Me had shocking lyrics that made Nirvana bad is something i obviously still am angry at my parents about. It wasnt exactly a secret Kurt and Nirvana were political, progay, pro feminist, pro choice.
I just feel and felt the act of banning of music, of any art, just is so naive and silly.
i certainly understand where you are coming from. and i think protecting a child's childhood is so important. seems like kids have to grow up so young these days. they have no childhood. that said, for older kids, my view on it, is its important for them to have albums or movies, or books, that get them through the troubled times they will encounter. not to mention, the fact that our world is pretty screwed up. racism, sexism, violence, guns, war, they all are real, and i think art can show the consequences of those things, but also serve as an outlet, even just by watching the movies. Remember Fight Club. Graphic as hell movie. The whole point was that as a result of all this crap going on in the world people need to get that aggression out. id rather see kids deal with it through art than in a negative manner.
i also think theres nothing that beats having a piece of art to call your own, even if it is made by someone else. Billy Corgan saying "when your life is so so dreary: dream", or "nobody no where understands anything about me, or all my dreams lost at sea". I can imagine those two lyrics alone were sustaining and life rafts for alot of people. i think we underestimate the positive power and the significance these albums have, and overemphasize the negative. I do think these things, these albums or movies, or books pull us through. help us, heal us. they help and heal people of all ages, kids are no different in this reguard.
never said nirvana was bad or that the song was bad...but it is not a good idea for a 10 year old to go around singing rape me..loudly...all the time when she has no idea what she is saying. i knew about the song, i listened to nirvana, pj, rhcp, cc, sg etc at the time, so i was not in the dark. just saying, some things are appropriate, and some things are not. she was not banned from the music, but that particular song, she didn't need to be singing. see what i mean?
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
I also remember my parents upset with the lyrics to Loser. I never had that album as a kid, but they werent happy and didnt get it. Beck obviously wasnt promoting what he was talking about. But what parent actually thinks about that? They unfortunately dont. I think most people react without thinking. if it talks about this or that its not for kids of any age. And by extention thats saying that all of it is bad.
Another album that got taken away was Superunknown. I was into grunge as i said. My parents seemed to think by extention all music that fit that bill was obscene. Are there intense themes on Superunknown and In Utero and Ten? Absolutely. But the banning of it, was ridiculous