Is Free Speech dead??
Hugh Freaking Dillon
Posts: 14,010
So the guy can only have an opinion if it's favourable to the US government? Suspended without pay for 5 games. What a fucking joke.
from: http://news.yahoo.com/miami-marlins-manager-ozzie-guillen-apologizes-love-castro-170553870--abc-news-topstories.html
Controversial Miami Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen apologized today for remarks to Time magazine in which he seemed to praise Cuban leader Fidel Castro, calling his comments "stupid and naive."
"I love Fidel Castro." Time reported Guillen as saying in the article. "I respect Fidel Castro, you know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf****r is still here."
Guillen attempted to clarify his remarks in the news conference today, saying he was misquoted because of a language barrier. "What I meant in Spanish, I was talking in Spanish, was that I cannot believe somebody who hurt so many people over the years is still alive," he said today.
Guillen apologized profusely throughout the conference, which was conducted in a mixture of English and Spanish. "I apologize to the people here to everyone who's looking at me," he said. "I will do everything to make it better. … I know it's going to be a bumpy ride."
The Marlins manager, 48, went on to say that he wanted to move forward from the comments, which he called "the biggest mistake of my life."
"I am willing to do everything in my power, the Marlins power, to help the Cuban community the Latino community, like I always do," said Guillen, a former Major League shortstop from Venezuela who played for four teams in a 15-year career.
Guillen, who has been suspended for five games without pay by the Marlins for the incident, said he respects the decision, adding that money "is the last thing I'm thinking about right now."
As for the team, it released a statement today, saying, "The Marlins acknowledge the seriousness of the comments attributed to Guillen. The pain and suffering caused by Fidel Castro cannot be minimized, especially in a community filled with victims of the dictatorship."
The outspoken manager is no stranger to controversy, having raised the ire of players, coaches, gay rights activists, illegal immigration opponents and Venezuelans in the past. Throughout his tenure as manager, he has been criticized for, among other things:
• Using a gay slur while referring to a local sports columnist. Guillen later apologized to the gay community, but not the columnist.
• Praising Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez and appearing on his radio show in 2005.
• Speaking out against Arizona's strict illegal immigration law in 2010. He was quoted as saying that "this country can't survive without [immigrants]. There are a lot of people from this country who are lazy. A lot of people in this country want to be on the computer and send emails to people. We do the hard work."
But praising Fidel Castro in the city of Miami, which has a large Cuban-American population, seems even to Guillen to have gone a step too far. "I am a sport man and a sport man should not be involved in politics," he said at the news conference today. "I have to let the Cuban community know that I'm really sorry. I have to apologize because I did the wrong thing."
from: http://news.yahoo.com/miami-marlins-manager-ozzie-guillen-apologizes-love-castro-170553870--abc-news-topstories.html
Controversial Miami Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen apologized today for remarks to Time magazine in which he seemed to praise Cuban leader Fidel Castro, calling his comments "stupid and naive."
"I love Fidel Castro." Time reported Guillen as saying in the article. "I respect Fidel Castro, you know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that motherf****r is still here."
Guillen attempted to clarify his remarks in the news conference today, saying he was misquoted because of a language barrier. "What I meant in Spanish, I was talking in Spanish, was that I cannot believe somebody who hurt so many people over the years is still alive," he said today.
Guillen apologized profusely throughout the conference, which was conducted in a mixture of English and Spanish. "I apologize to the people here to everyone who's looking at me," he said. "I will do everything to make it better. … I know it's going to be a bumpy ride."
The Marlins manager, 48, went on to say that he wanted to move forward from the comments, which he called "the biggest mistake of my life."
"I am willing to do everything in my power, the Marlins power, to help the Cuban community the Latino community, like I always do," said Guillen, a former Major League shortstop from Venezuela who played for four teams in a 15-year career.
Guillen, who has been suspended for five games without pay by the Marlins for the incident, said he respects the decision, adding that money "is the last thing I'm thinking about right now."
As for the team, it released a statement today, saying, "The Marlins acknowledge the seriousness of the comments attributed to Guillen. The pain and suffering caused by Fidel Castro cannot be minimized, especially in a community filled with victims of the dictatorship."
The outspoken manager is no stranger to controversy, having raised the ire of players, coaches, gay rights activists, illegal immigration opponents and Venezuelans in the past. Throughout his tenure as manager, he has been criticized for, among other things:
• Using a gay slur while referring to a local sports columnist. Guillen later apologized to the gay community, but not the columnist.
• Praising Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez and appearing on his radio show in 2005.
• Speaking out against Arizona's strict illegal immigration law in 2010. He was quoted as saying that "this country can't survive without [immigrants]. There are a lot of people from this country who are lazy. A lot of people in this country want to be on the computer and send emails to people. We do the hard work."
But praising Fidel Castro in the city of Miami, which has a large Cuban-American population, seems even to Guillen to have gone a step too far. "I am a sport man and a sport man should not be involved in politics," he said at the news conference today. "I have to let the Cuban community know that I'm really sorry. I have to apologize because I did the wrong thing."
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"Is free speech dead?" Depends on the situation and place. Depends who you are and who you represent.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Because Fidel Castro is a murderer, guilty of killing some of my own family members, along with thousands of others. I still have relatives there suffering because of that fucking monster.
He has the right to say whatever he wants, but if you're gonna say something that goddamn stupid, in Little Havana no less...well, he also is exercising his right to be a goddamn insensitive, ignorant idiot and he deserves whatever comes to him.
Would you prefer that the U.S backed, mafia-affiliated, puppet dictator Batista was still in power?
is freedom of speach dead ? it must be...for a Cuban to be a citizen of the US all they have to do is step onto American soil right ? so really American rights and laws should be the rule here, leave Cuban laws in Cuba we still have Free speach here.
Godfather.
P.S. I love Albert Anastasia
I don't take any offense to what he said, but when 70% of your paying customers do, you have to really use your noggin and good judgement.
(that said, Miami should have known what they were getting when they hired this goofball. makes me wonder how hard it is to manage a ball team.)
This is what happens when we can no longer make a distinction between respecting something about a person, some personality trait or some behavior. It is the same as when someone who is pro-choice is called pro-abortion.
I love Ozzie...I don't know if he has ever had a thought he didn't express, most of the time it is very poorly, but you always know where he stands and I respect him for that...(probably shouldn't have said that because that means I love and agree with everything he has ever said and done)
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
No it wouldn't. Do you know what freedom of speech means?
It was a stupid thing to say when your customers disagree with you on that level. The Marlins were forced to do something. If this effects the Marlins standing in the community and hurts their "business" then they have every right to fire the guy if they choose.
Having said that, and knowing a bit about him, I really think it was more benign a comment then people are thinking. I really think it was using slang "I love that guy" to just mean, "Man, look at this guy who has all these people hating him and yet he stays in power, its amazing", etc.
But this is not a freedom of speech issue.
I agree this has nothing to do with free speech. He spoke freely, works for a high profile private employer the Miami Marlins in Little Havana FL. The things you say have consequences in this high profile job as manager of the team. So saying something politically insensitive like this WILL bring detractors and rightfully so in this part of South Florida. If you don't think so think again, some of the road signs here in Miami are in Spanish and this community is large and dominate and will voice their opposition to what Ozzie had to say. They are going to give him hell and many still want him fired.
I don't think he should be fired and i don't know what good a 5 game suspension will do but it's probably done by management to ease tensions at the moment. However he will and should be on a short rope for what he said and yes i think he will say something political in the future possibly to his detriment. Odd thing if he takes this team to the playoffs or to a championship most of this controversy will be push aside. Free speech is alive and well it's just that there's consequences for those words in high profile jobs and to the sector of society it affects it happens all the time.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Growing up hearing the horror stories of what Castro did to my family, and what they're still going through? YES.
Just adding a personal perspective to this, since it's easy for folks here to not understand just how awful Castro is. Sadly, most people don't. Only reason I chimed in on this, I usually avoid this forum like the plague for consideration of my own blood pressure.
in any sport, on any level...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
So obviously spot on it's funny.
There are also marketing concerns for the Marlins. They just changed their "location" name from Florida to Miami, and now their new manager pisses off a whole bunch of folks they were trying to market to. Not too smart.
He's not going to jail - that's free speech impingement. I'm free to go up to my boss and tell him he's a fat, stupid slob. He's also free to fire my ass (for insubordination). Free speech has nothing to do with it.
And we wonder why dopes get elected. :roll:
Agreed.
Is this one of those bad press is still press situations?
Definitely not - until, that is, the Marlins eventually fire him. Then, it will be for the team (but not Guillen who will never get another job in the Major Leagues as this is not the first stupid thing he's done/said). But, by suspending him first, the Marlins get to "test the waters" AND prolong the press for another week.
But then you have to look at it like hey...it's their company and they can run it the way they want to.
Side note: The people protesting Ozzie are opportunistic headline hunters. There was like 20 people out there protesting.
Exactly. I mean the fact that he didn't wind up in jail would seem to indicate that free speech is alive and well, wouldn't it?
Im very sorry to hear this about your family. Most Americans have no idea what its like living under tyrannical dictator. Not that I do,but I really enjoy learning from people that have come to America to escape from places like Cuba and the old Soviet Union. The one common thread I hear is that people from other countries seem to share is why and how americans don't see where we are headed .
Headed into WHAT?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
And yeah, one thing I get from my Cuban relatives, and my dad who is Spanish but immigrated there in the 50s (that's where he met my mom), they all say the same thing....Americans have ZERO idea what that type of regime is like. I had actually talked with him about this story yesterday over dinner, and seeing the pain on his face, it's like it all just happened yesterday. Those people in Miami protesting this guy, that is the pain they feel. It does not go away. I love the US and can't imagine what it'd be like, to forever be a refugee, never being able to live here again.
He also feels people here don't truly cherish and appreciate the freedoms afforded here. I guess it's one of those things you don't miss until it's taken away from you?
So really, freedom of speech is sacred, and important. But like others said, this whole thing really isn't a freedom of speech issue. If you're gonna be in a business and offend 95% of your customers....not a smart move! You're free to say whatever you want, just be prepared for people to call you on your BS.
And, I totally agree with your last paragraph!
Reap what you sow, and suck up the consequences of what you say and how you act.
Yup, dude was pretty much asking for it. It's like really...you say that where there are hella Cubans? Dummy lol
I know perfectly well what free speech is, thank you very much. it was a catchy way to name a thread. free speech in this sense is in the context of who he works for, who he is, etc. Obviously no one is saying he's getting tossed out of the country or thrown in jail. Maybe make the guy clarify his comments, or apologize, but to suspend him for 5 games, effectively hurting the TEAM, is assanine. the punishment has no relation to the crime whatsoever.
it's a knee jerk PR move is all it was. and a stupid one at that.
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Winnipeg 2005
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St. Paul 2014
read and debate the text in the article.
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Good point, Hugh. Sometimes it's just too easy to scan something, then tap, tap, tap, click and-- smile, you've posted. I try very hard to avoid knee-jerk responses or any response at all on a subject of which I know little but now and then I'm as guilty as anyone of a quick response. For example, Chiquimonkey's challenge to my post in this thread was well taken, a good call and an incentive for me to educate myself better on a subject. It's a good reminder for all of us to educate ourselves and keep a clear head while responding.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"