Paying via PayPal as "gift": Please Read!

Pearl Jam_ie

An FYI to buyers/sellers:

I recently tried opening a claim through PayPal to try and get a refund for an item that I paid for, but never recieved. I found out that you can only open a claim if you sent payment for "goods" or "services". If you send payment as "gift" you are not allowed to open a claim.

If you want your purchases protected, only send payments for "services" or "goods". I'm sure any good seller will understand this situation, and can adjust their prices accordingly.

Also keep in mind that claims must be opened within 45 days of the transaction date. After the 45 day period is up, you will not be able to get a refund for your purchases.

Cheers and Happy Trading!

Duncs

Thanks for sharing this. Very helpful.

81

i've had a couple of people pay as gift, unsolocited even. being the great seller than i am, no worries and i apprieate the fee savings, but i would never gift a purchase.

HesCalledDyer

The buyer can also now opt to pay the fees instead of charging them to the seller. Honestly, I think if everyone on this board could operate on the honor system (as they have with "gift" purchases) and use this opt-in method for fees, it would benefit both the buyer and seller as both would have a sort of insurance on their transaction.

theserialthrilla

are we talking about the same person on this board that has not sent out vinyl...if so im sorry for you buddy ..luckily i didnt send as a gift so have a claim going..but another buyer did i know of..

this is a sad day in the tenc world. fellow fan wripping others off..if this is the case..but 5 week is a long time to wait and no reply

Pearl Jam_ie

theserialthrilla wrote:

are we talking about the same person on this board that has not sent out vinyl...if so im sorry for you buddy ..luckily i didnt send as a gift so have a claim going..but another buyer did i know of..

this is a sad day in the tenc world. fellow fan wripping others off..if this is the case..but 5 week is a long time to wait and no reply

Yes it is, but I'm not going to totally throw the seller under the bus yet because he still has the option to do the right thing and either send the vinyl OR refund money on his own.

Also, I paid as "gift" without being asked, so if nothing else, I consider it a lesson learned.

That being said, I've had many great transactions with great people on here and look forward to more!

adusick

Great info Jamie, thank you for the heads up!

81

HesCalledDyer wrote:

The buyer can also now opt to pay the fees instead of charging them to the seller. Honestly, I think if everyone on this board could operate on the honor system (as they have with "gift" purchases) and use this opt-in method for fees, it would benefit both the buyer and seller as both would have a sort of insurance on their transaction.

i believe the fee's should go to the seller as a "cost of doing business"

i hate when i see an ad that has fee's marked as buyer to pay....imo, the seller needs to set a price that he is comfortable with inclusive of fee's.

theserialthrilla

Pearl Jam_ie wrote:

theserialthrilla wrote:

are we talking about the same person on this board that has not sent out vinyl...if so im sorry for you buddy ..luckily i didnt send as a gift so have a claim going..but another buyer did i know of..

this is a sad day in the tenc world. fellow fan wripping others off..if this is the case..but 5 week is a long time to wait and no reply

Yes it is, but I'm not going to totally throw the seller under the bus yet because he still has the option to do the right thing and either send the vinyl OR refund money on his own.

Also, I paid as "gift" without being asked, so if nothing else, I consider it a lesson learned.

That being said, I've had many great transactions with great people on here and look forward to more!

tottaly agree but im just being safe as i only have 45 days to make a claim...if vinyl turns up i will cancel claim or resend funds.

100 Pacer

81 wrote:

HesCalledDyer wrote:

The buyer can also now opt to pay the fees instead of charging them to the seller. Honestly, I think if everyone on this board could operate on the honor system (as they have with "gift" purchases) and use this opt-in method for fees, it would benefit both the buyer and seller as both would have a sort of insurance on their transaction.

i believe the fee's should go to the seller as a "cost of doing business"

i hate when i see an ad that has fee's marked as buyer to pay....imo, the seller needs to set a price that he is comfortable with inclusive of fee's.

Full disclosure: I request that payment be made as a gift.

I believe every situation is different, and every seller is different, but personally speaking I go to great lengths both in terms of proper packaging/insurance/tracking/communication and accurate/fair product description with each and every shipment I send out and have developed a positive reputation as a result with numerous buyers without any issues. Assuming proper waybill documentation can be provided by the seller there shouldn't really be any issues and a buyer can feel confident in my eyes.

This isn't a "business" for me, and in many cases I'm selling items at current market valuations when in fact I've paid more for each and every item based on previous years' market valuations. Sure, I could charge double the postage fee as opposed to actual postage and then my seller fees would be covered but I don't. I could also charge for things like poster tubes, acid-free craft paper, etc. but I don't. The item is listed for sale at fair market value, all actual postage fees are charged, and there's really no room for "mark up" on my part.

In all fairness, as a buyer I'm very careful about who I deal with. As a seller, however, I am comfortable providing numerous references if need be and believe those references speak volumes about me a seller. If a potential buyer still doesn't feel comfortable dealing with me I don't take offense. If a buyer is willing to cover the Paypal transfer fees then by all means. Ultimately though I feel a solid reputation and a proven track record should be enough on the seller's part.

81

fair enough...

as a seller, i think you should factor all your costs into what you charge before you decide what to charge.

as a buyer, it would bug me to be nickled and dimed for any fee beyond the purchase price and shipping. i'm ok with shipping being seperate. but as far as paypal, shipping supplies, etc, that should all be factored into the asking price. imo of course.

at the end of the day, it's just left pocket/right pocket if you include it in the product price or as a seperate item.

on ebay, i think everyone should crank up the shipping cost and reduce the purchase price tho. fuckin ebay fee's :roll:

all buyers should send the money as a purchase...regardless of if they pick up the fee's or not.


now, lets get back to lynching.

jamburger

81 wrote:

on ebay, i think everyone should crank up the shipping cost and reduce the purchase price tho. fuckin ebay fee's :roll:

I forget when the change occurred, but...

eBay wrote:

Final value fee (Based on the total amount of the sale, including the cost of the item, shipping, and any other fees a seller may charge, excluding any sales tax)

81

jamburger wrote:

81 wrote:

on ebay, i think everyone should crank up the shipping cost and reduce the purchase price tho. fuckin ebay fee's :roll:

I forget when the change occurred, but...

eBay wrote:

Final value fee (Based on the total amount of the sale, including the cost of the item, shipping, and any other fees a seller may charge, excluding any sales tax)

i hate ebay. :x they let too many business's on their.

cowboypjfan

Great info!

If someone doesn't want to gift you money, just have them pay the extra fee that paypal charges if they use the goods or services feature. It's usually around 3%.

Suziemay

I think everyone should do what they are comfortable with.

I personally request payment as gift and do the same when I purchase from anyone here, but I also will not deal with anyone I'm not comfortable with. Yes, it's a leap of faith that this person I've never met/may never meet is not going to screw me over either intentionally or unintentionally, but it makes me feel good when I take that leap and so far no one here has disappointed me.

However, you've given me some good things to think about, I think for future sales I will ask the person buying from me if they are comfortable paying as gift and if not, that's fine. For purchases I will continue to send as gift unless for some reason the seller requests that I don't do that

Hope you get your money back, OP.

dangerboy

Suziemay wrote:

Hope you get your money back, OP.

that's kinda the point: he's not getting his money back. we can hope he gets his item, but his money is lost.

i don't like gift payments. i request that people NOT send them for several reasons, all shit i've run into.

1. if you start getting alot of gift payments from multiple people (and by alot, it seems that could range from as few as 2 to 10 or more), paypal will HOLD the funds while they "investigate", which sometimes includes you having to call them on the phone after a week to find out WTF during which phone call they ask you "why are you getting gift payments? what was this payment for?" and like that. personal experience. sucks to do a deal then have the money sit there because they're suspicious that you are circumventing their fees...

2. business between friends can ruin the business and the friendship. i know, everybody can trust me. but asking for, or more to the point, demanding gift payments is asking the buyer to put himself or herself in a position of faith only. no matter how awesome anyone is, no matter how simple the transaction, there are always unforeseen circumstances that can make everything go bad. i don't like asking my buyers to leave themselves in such a lurch, without protection of their side of the transaction. notice how most people say "i always ask for gift transactions, but i rarely ever do them myself." of course not, because they require you to hang it out there on the table for anyone to chop off. metaphorically speaking, of course....


in the end, we're talking small amounts of money. does it bother me when i make a big sale and paypal gets $25? hell yes. on the other hand, they are providing me a service, and a tiny percentage of the transaction fee is reasonable. on $100 it's like $3. so sell your poster for $103 instead...

81

pretty sure paypal takes a fee from the sender if it is sent as a gift.

edit...i see now...it's free if you use your paypal funds or a connected bank account...it's costs the normal 2.9% + .30 cents if you send it via a debit/credit card.

Suziemay

dangerboy wrote:

Suziemay wrote:

Hope you get your money back, OP.

that's kinda the point: he's not getting his money back. we can hope he gets his item, but his money is lost.

i don't like gift payments. i request that people NOT send them for several reasons, all shit i've run into.

1. if you start getting alot of gift payments from multiple people (and by alot, it seems that could range from as few as 2 to 10 or more), paypal will HOLD the funds while they "investigate", which sometimes includes you having to call them on the phone after a week to find out WTF during which phone call they ask you "why are you getting gift payments? what was this payment for?" and like that. personal experience. sucks to do a deal then have the money sit there because they're suspicious that you are circumventing their fees...

2. business between friends can ruin the business and the friendship. i know, everybody can trust me. but asking for, or more to the point, demanding gift payments is asking the buyer to put himself or herself in a position of faith only. no matter how awesome anyone is, no matter how simple the transaction, there are always unforeseen circumstances that can make everything go bad. i don't like asking my buyers to leave themselves in such a lurch, without protection of their side of the transaction. notice how most people say "i always ask for gift transactions, but i rarely ever do them myself." of course not, because they require you to hang it out there on the table for anyone to chop off. metaphorically speaking, of course....


in the end, we're talking small amounts of money. does it bother me when i make a big sale and paypal gets $25? hell yes. on the other hand, they are providing me a service, and a tiny percentage of the transaction fee is reasonable. on $100 it's like $3. so sell your poster for $103 instead...

Completely hear you and like I said, I think everyone should do what they are comfortable with. I was expressing my opinion on what I prefer to do, it was not an opinion on OP's specific situation. I don't buy/sell a lot, maybe if I did I would feel similarly to you. I also don't buy/sell anything super expensive.

snow_board_rider

Save us all and name the seller that seems to be ripping people off. Public shaming worked for me to get another member to uphold his end of the deal.

NAUjackfan

It's a risk that should be up to the buyer if the seller asks to get a set amount plus PP fees or as a gift. It's no different than stating the expectation that shipping is included or additional. Either cover the fees or take the risk. I ask for payment to be sent as a gift, but I think I've established myself as a good member of the PJ community. That being said, if someone wants to pay the fees instead of sending as a gift, I don't have (and shouldn't have) an issue with that.

theserialthrilla

snow_board_rider wrote:

Save us all and name the seller that seems to be ripping people off. Public shaming worked for me to get another member to uphold his end of the deal.

trust me give it a few days and i will...

i even priced his vinyl for him then he doesnt send out the vinyls. not a good way to treat fellow fans

FrankBauer

Gift is nice but PayPal just takes fees from the sender. Money isn't being saved, just who is charged the fees. Seller should just add a few bucks more to his sale price or buyer adds a few bucks (instead of sending as gift). Solves the potential headaches. I've had people pay me as gift a few times but that's really putting a lot of trust in the seller. I've also sent as gift but in reality it's pointless. If u are willing to send as gift then just add a few bucks to ur transaction fee instead and send regularly.

NAUjackfan

FrankBauer wrote:

Gift is nice but PayPal just takes fees from the sender. Money isn't being saved, just who is charged the fees. Seller should just add a few bucks more to his sale price or buyer adds a few bucks (instead of sending as gift). Solves the potential headaches. I've had people pay me as gift a few times but that's really putting a lot of trust in the seller. I've also sent as gift but in reality it's pointless. If u are willing to send as gift then just add a few bucks to ur transaction fee instead and send regularly.

Sending a gift from a bank account or Paypal balance doesn't result in any fees. Using a credit card to send a gift does result in fees, though.

Pearl Jam_ie

I am all for outing someone publicly for not holding up their end of a deal, but we'll save that for another thread. My intention for starting this thread was not to tell people how or how not too do their transactions, or to cause paranoia amongst board members. Just wanted to let people know what could potentially happen if they don't protect themselves as buyers. I did not know the details of how PayPal worked, and for that I am learning a valuable lesson ($50 to be exact, lol), but now I won't let it happen again.

dimitrispearljam

i have a question...
why what ever pay method i use,gift,goods service i pay feeds?
people always say to pay as gift,but always there are fees,the only explanation i can give is that has to do with transfer from another country?
as for my opinion,for who pays the fees.even im a buyer always, i believe buyer must pay the fees...seller must take clear the money ask for his item..

and thanks to OP for let us know

Suziemay

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i have a question...
why what ever pay method i use,gift,goods service i pay feeds?
people always say to pay as gift,but always there are fees,the only explanation i can give is that has to do with transfer from another country?
as for my opinion,for who pays the fees.even im a buyer always, i believe buyer must pay the fees...seller must take clear the money ask for his item..

That's the foreign transaction fee, Dimitris. 0.5%-2% depending on where you are (ouch, Germany!!). See here, section 8.4: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... #8.%20Fees.

Also, general info on PayPal fees: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/helpcent ... 0006&m=TCI

dimitrispearljam

Suziemay wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i have a question...
why what ever pay method i use,gift,goods service i pay feeds?
people always say to pay as gift,but always there are fees,the only explanation i can give is that has to do with transfer from another country?
as for my opinion,for who pays the fees.even im a buyer always, i believe buyer must pay the fees...seller must take clear the money ask for his item..

That's the foreign transaction fee, Dimitris. 0.5%-2% depending on where you are (ouch, Germany!!). See here, section 8.4: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... #8.%20Fees.

Also, general info on PayPal fees: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/helpcent ... 0006&m=TCI

thanks

Elzar

I never request nor send payments as "gift"

- too much shit could happen
- can't print a paypal shipping label
- no protection for buyer or seller

and it's only 3% or lower! cmon people!
I really dont mind paypal fees....its those damn ebay fees, some crazy amounts, especially if anyone tries to sell vinyl or books ~25% !!!

JOEJOEJOE

It makes sense that Paypal doesn't offer any buyer protection of payments sent as "gifts".....they don't fees on gifts, so it wouldn't be cost-effective if they had to spend time rectifying fee-less transactions.

Sometimes, it just makes sense to pay the 3%. I think a good idea is for the seller to figure-in the fees when deciding on the selling cost of an item.

cowboypjfan

Elzar wrote:

I really dont mind paypal fees....its those damn ebay fees, some crazy amounts, especially if anyone tries to sell vinyl or books ~25% !!!

To sell a record on ebay is 10%. If you get paid by paypal, it's 3%. so 13% total fee is very accurate.

boyo79

This thread is certainly an eye-opener. I've always paid 'gift' when buying from someone on here. Never really thought of any complications further down the line, just thought I was doing the seller a favour by them not getting any paypal fees