vinyl thickness

chadwick

so i have questions about vinyl thickness. pearl jam has the thickest albums in my small but growing record collection. i would not be exagerating by stating that pj vinyl is twice as thick as other musical acts. is this thickness a better record, is it higher quality vinyl? does a thinner album spin better or is it the bulkier vinyl that spins best?

am i even in the correct forum?

snow_board_rider

It all about the thickness more than the length is what the ladies have always told me.







But its because most of the newer PJ albums are on 180g vinyl.you can research it here: www.lmgtfy.com

PJ_Soul

Thanks Chadwick... as we were talking about: I just got first pressing of Vitalogy and No Code, and Vitalogy seems WAY thinner than No Code... and actually the edges seem way different too; Vitalogy is rougher. Has anyone else noticed this??

As for thickness in general... I was under the impression that it's normally bootlegs or counterfeit that is usually thicker/heavier, and that vinyl with more bend (thinner) is the higher quality... And also have the impression that original PJ vinyl isn't normally 180g, because the rereleases are advertised as such but the originals aren't ... and had the impression that 180 is somewhat inferior in the eyes of serious collectors. Am I wrong in Assuming that? I really just picked that up from the fact that 180 seems to sell for much less.
(Yeah, this thread might get better responses in lost dogs or the porch. )

mookeywrench

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thanks Chadwick... as we were talking about: I just got first pressing of Vitalogy and No Code, and Vitalogy seems WAY thinner than No Code... and actually the edges seem way different too; Vitalogy is rougher. Has anyone else noticed this??

As for thickness in general... I was under the impression that it's normally bootlegs or counterfeit that is usually thicker/heavier, and that vinyl with more bend (thinner) is the higher quality... And also have the impression that original PJ vinyl isn't normally 180g, because the rereleases are advertised as such but the originals aren't ... and had the impression that 180 is somewhat inferior in the eyes of serious collectors. Am I wrong in Assuming that? I really just picked that up from the fact that 180 seems to sell for much less.
(Yeah, this thread might get better responses in lost dogs or the porch. )

Its the other way around.

PJ_Soul

mookeywrench wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thanks Chadwick... as we were talking about: I just got first pressing of Vitalogy and No Code, and Vitalogy seems WAY thinner than No Code... and actually the edges seem way different too; Vitalogy is rougher. Has anyone else noticed this??

As for thickness in general... I was under the impression that it's normally bootlegs or counterfeit that is usually thicker/heavier, and that vinyl with more bend (thinner) is the higher quality... And also have the impression that original PJ vinyl isn't normally 180g, because the rereleases are advertised as such but the originals aren't ... and had the impression that 180 is somewhat inferior in the eyes of serious collectors. Am I wrong in Assuming that? I really just picked that up from the fact that 180 seems to sell for much less.
(Yeah, this thread might get better responses in lost dogs or the porch. )

Its the other way around.

Okay, good to get that clear in mg brain! ... weird though that I really have noticed 180 going cheaper... is this just because original pressings are simply not done at the highest quality a lot of the time, yet people still want originals over quality? That's kind of fucked, but okay, I get it. I'm a sucker for first pressings too - it's that sick collector in me.

javis el errante

First, sound quality depends on the recordings, mixes and the mastering; second, sound quality depends on the way the master and the pressings are made, and the products used to create the master and the copies.

Third, artists can chose between a single LP set, or a double LP set; they can chose to include 3 songs on one side or 4 songs on one side, regarding the lenght of the songs, etc.; fourth, to my knowledge, there are 12 minute-long masters, 18 minute-long masters and 24 minute-long masters, I'm not 100% certain though, they could vary; fifth, when pressing vinyl, artists may chose 120 gms, 180 gms, 200 gms or 220 gms vinyl, but these last three points are decided after finishing recording and mixing all the songs to be included in the album, they ones that will make it to the album will be mastered, and then the master is produced.

So, at the time of pressing, it is known that the heavier the better, that is to say, you could get a better song quality with a heavier vinyl than with a lighter vinyl, in theory. However, all things considered, depending on the recordings, the mixes and the mastering, artists may get a good sound quiality on a 120 gms vinyl, or in the worst case, a lousy sound quiality on a 220 grams vinyl. For isntance, a fellow jammer here on the boards, said that in his opinion the sound quality of Vitallogy first pressing is better that the reissue one, sorry that I don't remember who said it.

Spinning has nothing to do with weight, both light and heavy 33 1/3 12" vinyl will spin at the same speed on the turntable, and for that matter, a 7" 45rpm will revolve at the same of a 12" 45rmp, it is not that the heavier vinyl will stall the turntable. If a 180 gms vinyl speeds slower than a 120 gms vinyl on 33 1/3 rpm it has nothing to do with the vinyl, it is a problem with the turntable.

And the reason why first pressing PJ albums are way more expensive than the current reissues and Backspacer is because they are first pressings, nothing else, it has nothing to do with sound or weight of the vinyl. It's because as they are first pressing they have acquired the status of collectible items.

PJ_Soul

:thumbup: Excellent - thanks for the great explanation!!

javis el errante wrote:

First, sound quality depends on the recordings, mixes and the mastering; second, sound quality depends on the way the master and the pressings are made, and the products used to create the master and the copies.

Third, artists can chose between a single LP set, or a double LP set; they can chose to include 3 songs on one side or 4 songs on one side, regarding the lenght of the songs, etc.; fourth, to my knowledge, there are 12 minute-long masters, 18 minute-long masters and 24 minute-long masters, I'm not 100% certain though, they could vary; fifth, when pressing vinyl, artists may chose 120 gms, 180 gms, 200 gms or 220 gms vinyl, but these last three points are decided after finishing recording and mixing all the songs to be included in the album, they ones that will

make it to the album will be mastered, and then the master is produced.

So, at the time of pressing, it is known that the heavier the better, that is to say, you could get a better song quality with a heavier vinyl than with a lighter vinyl, in theory. However, all things considered, depending on the recordings, the mixes and the mastering, artists may get a good sound quiality on a 120 gms vinyl, or in the worst case, a lousy sound quiality on a 220 grams vinyl. For isntance, a fellow jammer here on the boards, said that in his opinion the sound quality of Vitallogy first pressing is better that the reissue one, sorry that I don't remember who said it.

Spinning has nothing to do with weight, both light and heavy 33 1/3 12" vinyl will spin at the same speed on the turntable, and for that matter, a 7" 45rpm will revolve at the same of a 12" 45rmp, it is not that the heavier vinyl will stall the turntable. If a 180 gms vinyl speeds slower than a 120 gms vinyl on 33 1/3 rpm it has nothing to do with the vinyl, it is a problem with the turntable.

And the reason why first pressing PJ albums are way more expensive than the current reissues and Backspacer is because they are first pressings, nothing else, it has nothing to do with sound or weight of the vinyl. It's because as they are first pressing they have acquired the status of collectible items.

javis el errante

u r welcome bros and sis...

chadwick

javis el errante wrote:

First, sound quality depends on the recordings, mixes and the mastering; second, sound quality depends on the way the master and the pressings are made, and the products used to create the master and the copies.

Third, artists can chose between a single LP set, or a double LP set; they can chose to include 3 songs on one side or 4 songs on one side, regarding the lenght of the songs, etc.; fourth, to my knowledge, there are 12 minute-long masters, 18 minute-long masters and 24 minute-long masters, I'm not 100% certain though, they could vary; fifth, when pressing vinyl, artists may chose 120 gms, 180 gms, 200 gms or 220 gms vinyl, but these last three points are decided after finishing recording and mixing all the songs to be included in the album, they ones that will make it to the album will be mastered, and then the master is produced.

So, at the time of pressing, it is known that the heavier the better, that is to say, you could get a better song quality with a heavier vinyl than with a lighter vinyl, in theory. However, all things considered, depending on the recordings, the mixes and the mastering, artists may get a good sound quiality on a 120 gms vinyl, or in the worst case, a lousy sound quiality on a 220 grams vinyl. For isntance, a fellow jammer here on the boards, said that in his opinion the sound quality of Vitallogy first pressing is better that the reissue one, sorry that I don't remember who said it.

Spinning has nothing to do with weight, both light and heavy 33 1/3 12" vinyl will spin at the same speed on the turntable, and for that matter, a 7" 45rpm will revolve at the same of a 12" 45rmp, it is not that the heavier vinyl will stall the turntable. If a 180 gms vinyl speeds slower than a 120 gms vinyl on 33 1/3 rpm it has nothing to do with the vinyl, it is a problem with the turntable.

And the reason why first pressing PJ albums are way more expensive than the current reissues and Backspacer is because they are first pressings, nothing else, it has nothing to do with sound or weight of the vinyl. It's because as they are first pressing they have acquired the status of collectible items.

you are badass

dcfaithful

javis el errante wrote:

First, sound quality depends on the recordings, mixes and the mastering; second, sound quality depends on the way the master and the pressings are made, and the products used to create the master and the copies.

Third, artists can chose between a single LP set, or a double LP set; they can chose to include 3 songs on one side or 4 songs on one side, regarding the lenght of the songs, etc.; fourth, to my knowledge, there are 12 minute-long masters, 18 minute-long masters and 24 minute-long masters, I'm not 100% certain though, they could vary; fifth, when pressing vinyl, artists may chose 120 gms, 180 gms, 200 gms or 220 gms vinyl, but these last three points are decided after finishing recording and mixing all the songs to be included in the album, they ones that will make it to the album will be mastered, and then the master is produced.

So, at the time of pressing, it is known that the heavier the better, that is to say, you could get a better song quality with a heavier vinyl than with a lighter vinyl, in theory. However, all things considered, depending on the recordings, the mixes and the mastering, artists may get a good sound quiality on a 120 gms vinyl, or in the worst case, a lousy sound quiality on a 220 grams vinyl. For isntance, a fellow jammer here on the boards, said that in his opinion the sound quality of Vitallogy first pressing is better that the reissue one, sorry that I don't remember who said it.

Spinning has nothing to do with weight, both light and heavy 33 1/3 12" vinyl will spin at the same speed on the turntable, and for that matter, a 7" 45rpm will revolve at the same of a 12" 45rmp, it is not that the heavier vinyl will stall the turntable. If a 180 gms vinyl speeds slower than a 120 gms vinyl on 33 1/3 rpm it has nothing to do with the vinyl, it is a problem with the turntable.

And the reason why first pressing PJ albums are way more expensive than the current reissues and Backspacer is because they are first pressings, nothing else, it has nothing to do with sound or weight of the vinyl. It's because as they are first pressing they have acquired the status of collectible items.

Excellent post.

chadwick

hello my name is doorknob boy. i have thick vinyl recordings of different musical acts. some are in studio recordings while others are live and raw, this being my best favorite sounds. i am curious if the who's live recordings on vinyl are thick or thinner?

it would be safe to say "i hope keith's drums are thick"

enjoy your spins
good-bye for now

:wave:

javis el errante

I haven't heard any live recordings by the who on vinyl... but the Live at Leeds has been reissued, so I bet you will get good sound quality there, regardless the weight of the vinyl... it will be hard to find a first pressing from track release or decca release on vinyl of the Leeds album...

I would love to be of more help, because that would mean that I have that album on vinyl, but I don't have it...

brianlux

It's been interesting over the years to watch vinyl thickness vary. Some of the records my folks had when I was a kid were very thick but brittle. Vinyl thickness in the sixties was fairly consistent and quality was generally very good. In the seventies many records were made of a very thin vinyl that was pushed on the market with claims that it was of better quality and I don't remember quite how that was foisted off but you can hold those things between your palms, move your arms up and down and watch them wobble back and worth- very flimsy. Now that vinyl is back in limited quantities the quality is good but I'm not sure the sound is always better (as it is reputed to be). I've replace a few sixties and seventies albums with 180 and 200 gram vinyl and longed for the original records that had a better sound. I've been told that deeper grooves are as important or more so than vinyl thickness. One particular problem I've had with new vinyl I've purchased- and this drives me right into my tree: pre-scratched records. What causes this? My guess is packer's finger nails. Crazy making.

javis el errante

brianlux wrote:

It's been interesting over the years to watch vinyl thickness vary. Some of the records my folks had when I was a kid were very thick but brittle. Vinyl thickness in the sixties was fairly consistent and quality was generally very good. In the seventies many records were made of a very thin vinyl that was pushed on the market with claims that it was of better quality and I don't remember quite how that was foisted off but you can hold those things between your palms, move your arms up and down and watch them wobble back and worth- very flimsy. Now that vinyl is back in limited quantities the quality is good but I'm not sure the sound is always better (as it is reputed to be). I've replace a few sixties and seventies albums with 180 and 200 gram vinyl and longed for the original records that had a better sound. I've been told that deeper grooves are as important or more so than vinyl thickness. One particular problem I've had with new vinyl I've purchased- and this drives me right into my tree: pre-scratched records. What causes this? My guess is packer's finger nails. Crazy making.

what you said about thickness during the 60's and 70's remind me of something someone said to me: the best vinyls were made in the 80's, on the account of what you said about the grooves, they vinyl was thin, 120 gms may be, but grooves were deep, and that's more important than thickness, that's for sure, I have some vinyls from the 70's, mostly Led Zeppelin and ACDC, they were not very thick, but grooves are deep, my copy of Who's next released by Decca isn't thick, and the grooves aren't deep, I don't know if it is first pressing or not, I have an album, a second edition of an Argentinian band, vinyl pressed here in Argentina, and it is think, but it's not 180 gms, and its grooves are deep, and now I come to think of it, last year, the reissue of Blood Sugar Sex Magik for RSD was on red transparent vinyl of 140 gms... keep on spinning fellas...

EdsonNascimento

Cd sounds superior

brianlux

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Cd sounds superior

HAH!!

I knew we'd get into it over here on The Porch sooner or later, Edson!