Are Women Happier Post-Sexual Revolution?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

it's so crazy...when someone does come at blockhead or inlet with knowledge they just dismiss it as being too academic, rambling, whatever. but i was answering the fucking question. i guess it's easier to complain about not getting one's question answered when you don't want to respond to answers that don't match one's politics.

there definitely seems to be a disdain for academia and the social sciences ... i've been through this same thing with global warming ... i'll read there articles but they won't read mine ...

inlet13

polaris_x wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

it's so crazy...when someone does come at blockhead or inlet with knowledge they just dismiss it as being too academic, rambling, whatever. but i was answering the fucking question. i guess it's easier to complain about not getting one's question answered when you don't want to respond to answers that don't match one's politics.

there definitely seems to be a disdain for academia and the social sciences ... i've been through this same thing with global warming ... i'll read there articles but they won't read mine ...

Got two minutes to respond...

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Second, I'm a PhD economist, bro. Economics IS a social science. I work IN academia. I publish my research IN academic journals. In fact, the reason I have to go in 10 minutes is to teach a SOCIAL SCIENCE class. I don't think there's a disdain for the social sciences or academia within me. Re-read what I just said for proof. So, please, save the nonsense for your Global Warming threads.

Anyway, I got to go teach. I'll try to respond later if you want me to.

polaris_x

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

Oh i forgot, "it's science" :roll:

this is a report published by the Canadian gov't ...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/Resea ... 0-30-e.htm

if there is a wage gap in a somewhat socialized country like Canada - you can postulate on what that would be in the US ...

Statistical evidence demonstrates that women continue to earn less than men in Canada, as in all the countries that are members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). This is the case despite the fact that women are catching up with men in labour force participation, and have caught up with men in educational attainment. The gap between what women earn and what men earn is known as the gender wage gap.

please note the bolded part ...

what about this?

polaris_x

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

sexual revolution came about during second wave feminism/women's lib (ugh) which was simply about breaking the social structures posed by biological determinism, and we have now entered third wave feminism concerned with post-structuralism (Foucault and the like) whereby social structures are constantly changing, biological determinism has given way to social influence (the panopticon) and so on. This is where Blockhead's question about homosexuality and female/male issues are conflated. There are many feminists who disagree with one another depending on where they stand 1st/2nd/3rd wave. The type of feminism I most closely align with is 3rd wave whereby nearly everything is socially constructed and biological determinism is considered too simple. Thus sexuality is both a biological impulse AND a social construct (there are degrees of sexuality in this conception thus no one is a perfect hetero/homo sexual), just the same as gender (there are degrees of masculinity and femininity that overlap and diverge). This, however, doesn't mean that everything means nothing, but rather that there are degrees of oppression based on social and biological structures. In that case, discrimination of homosexuals and discrimination of women are both understood as not good.

So your ignoring psychological and behavorial issues tied to biology...

really!?? ... you read his post and that is what you got?? ...

"Thus sexuality is both a biological impulse AND a social construct"

"This, however, doesn't mean that everything means nothing, but rather that there are degrees of oppression based on social and biological structure"

or this?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

Oh i forgot, "it's science" :roll:

this is a report published by the Canadian gov't ...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/Resea ... 0-30-e.htm

if there is a wage gap in a somewhat socialized country like Canada - you can postulate on what that would be in the US ...

Statistical evidence demonstrates that women continue to earn less than men in Canada, as in all the countries that are members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). This is the case despite the fact that women are catching up with men in labour force participation, and have caught up with men in educational attainment. The gap between what women earn and what men earn is known as the gender wage gap.

please note the bolded part ...

what about this?

What about it...
OF course men on AVERAGE or MEDIAN make more, thats because men usually have the higher ranking jobs/CEO/CFO, ect... MEN also do the most dangerous job, that tend to pay very well.
You can't compare 10 women who are waitressess and 10 men who are CEO's and say, Look at that wage gap, men make so much more...
Nothing is comparing men and women with the same job titles/experience/ect. There are so many variables... You also have to factor in things like sick time/maternity leave...
Its a well known fact that most women don't negotiate thier wages and or demand raises, all this plays a part.
Thats like saying taller men make more money than shorter men (which is a fact) so short men are not created equal...

polaris_x

inlet13 wrote:

Got two minutes to respond...

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Second, I'm a PhD economist, bro. Economics IS a social science. I work IN academia. I publish my research IN academic journals. In fact, the reason I have to go in 10 minutes is to teach a SOCIAL SCIENCE class. I don't think there's a disdain for the social sciences or academia within me. Re-read what I just said for proof. So, please, save the nonsense for your Global Warming threads.

Anyway, I got to go teach. I'll try to respond later if you want me to.

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They%27re

RW81233

blockhead i read your study that you posted and within that study they even found wage discrimination. i posted and asked what you thought about it, and you didn't respond. i even asked if you've read the links i've posted in response and you haven't responded to those links.

JonnyPistachio

inlet13 wrote:

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Huh?
Thank god its economics and not english!

RW81233

JonnyPistachio wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Huh?
Thank god its economics and not english!

i wonder if he's going to tell his female students that they suck for being there and that their presence is making us all unhappy

RW81233

RW81233 wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Huh?
Thank god its economics and not english!

i wonder if he's going to tell his female students that they suck for being there and that their presence is making us all unhappy

then when they get all pissed at him inlet will suggest that they are being overemotional and that he was merely presenting facts for discussion, and since they are his "facts", they are not to be pulled apart just talked about in a banal fashion.

i would pay money to have him upload a video of the classroom when he posits this belief. seriously i would.

inlet13

JonnyPistachio wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Huh?
Thank god its economics and not english!

Check again.

polaris_x wrote:

there definitely seems to be a disdain for academia and the social sciences ... i've been through this same thing with global warming ... i'll read there articles but they won't read mine ...

On a completely unrelated subject, too bad about T.U. I wonder about their chances next year. At least Dumphy will be back.

inlet13

polaris_x wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Got two minutes to respond...

First, it's "their" not "there". An academic you are, that's for sure.

Second, I'm a PhD economist, bro. Economics IS a social science. I work IN academia. I publish my research IN academic journals. In fact, the reason I have to go in 10 minutes is to teach a SOCIAL SCIENCE class. I don't think there's a disdain for the social sciences or academia within me. Re-read what I just said for proof. So, please, save the nonsense for your Global Warming threads.

Anyway, I got to go teach. I'll try to respond later if you want me to.

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They%27re

Didn't even bother reading your quote before you were looking up how I was wrong, eh? It's rule #3 in your link. The word "there" is used twice. I was referring to the latter. It should be their, as I said.

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

i wonder if he's going to tell his female students that they suck for being there and that their presence is making us all unhappy
.

RW81233 wrote:

then when they get all pissed at him inlet will suggest that they are being overemotional and that he was merely presenting facts for discussion, and since they are his "facts", they are not to be pulled apart just talked about in a banal fashion.

i would pay money to have him upload a video of the classroom when he posits this belief. seriously i would.

Seriously?

This is just rubbish. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Thus far, amongst other inflammatory language in this thread, you've already called an entire group of people "ugly" because of their political beliefs. Afterwards, I asked you about yourinflammatory remarks and mentioned how they are not called for here.

So, now, you decide to type out a ficticious scenario in which you envision me degrading women in my class, telling them to go home and hoping you could video tape this made up dream of yours that would never happen? What's wrong with you? Seriously, what's wrong with you? The most alarming part was that you didn't even stop after one of your made up posts, you continued on to another one.

I've never reported anyone here to Mods, but this is literally the worst thing (directed towards me here) that I've read. I obviously would never do that or anything like it. You think up some sick stuff in that head of yours.

What you wrote completely crosses the line. Grow up.

RW81233

inlet13 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

i wonder if he's going to tell his female students that they suck for being there and that their presence is making us all unhappy
.

RW81233 wrote:

then when they get all pissed at him inlet will suggest that they are being overemotional and that he was merely presenting facts for discussion, and since they are his "facts", they are not to be pulled apart just talked about in a banal fashion.

i would pay money to have him upload a video of the classroom when he posits this belief. seriously i would.

Seriously?

This is just rubbish. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Thus far, amongst other inflammatory language in this thread, you've already called an entire group of people "ugly" because of their political beliefs. Afterwards, I asked you about yourinflammatory remarks and mentioned how they are not called for here.

So, now, you decide to type out a ficticious scenario in which you envision me degrading women in my class, telling them to go home and hoping you could video tape this made up dream of yours that would never happen? What's wrong with you? Seriously, what's wrong with you? The most alarming part was that you didn't even stop after one of your made up posts, you continued on to another one.

I've never reported anyone here to Mods, but this is literally the worst thing (directed towards me here) that I've read. I obviously would never do that or anything like it. You think up some sick stuff in that head of yours.

What you wrote completely crosses the line. Grow up.

seriously go ahead and report me if that's how you want to go. i essentially apologized for the carlin quote, but it was a quote the gist of which was a fairly strong response to some of the stuff we were discussing. i literally cut and pasted it from a comedy website, and i agreed with you that the initial part of it was stupid - at the same time it was the entire bit so have at me if you must. secondly if the mods came after me for my "inflamatory language" i ask would you present the article you posted here to the kids in your econ class yes or no? why or why not? what response would you hope or expect to ellicit in that setting? would you literally tell the women in your class that it is their fault for driving down "real wages"? if not then why the fuck are you doing it here and claiming victimhood? if so i am serious i would literally pay to see the response, because i'm sure you'd have some chauvinist pigs saying chauvinist things, and strong young women rising up to meet their stupidity. in short, it would look like one of my classes on physical cultural studies.

brianlux

Like racism, it totally blows my mind that chauvinism still exists. I suppose it's because people are afraid of what they are not. And I'm not saying you have to be wimpy to support feminism. Again, look at Henry Rollins. That guy would never give male chauvinists the time of day.

I know I'll catch flack for saying this, but our male-dominated culture is a failure and a disgrace. I would be glad to see a maternal society take over for a change. I say give the ladies a shot a fixing up a culture men have been fucking up for way too long.

catefrances

brianlux wrote:

Like racism, it totally blows my mind that chauvinism still exists. I suppose it's because people are afraid of what they are not. And I'm not saying you have to be wimpy to support feminism. Again, look at Henry Rollins. That guy would never give male chauvinists the time of day.

I know I'll catch flack for saying this, but our male-dominated culture is a failure and a disgrace. I would be glad to see a maternal society take over for a change. I say give the ladies a shot a fixing up a culture men have been fucking up for way too long.

do we get the same amount of time to fix it as the blokes have had to fuck it up?

RW81233

brianlux wrote:

Like racism, it totally blows my mind that chauvinism still exists. I suppose it's because people are afraid of what they are not. And I'm not saying you have to be wimpy to support feminism. Again, look at Henry Rollins. That guy would never give male chauvinists the time of day.

I know I'll catch flack for saying this, but our male-dominated culture is a failure and a disgrace. I would be glad to see a maternal society take over for a change. I say give the ladies a shot a fixing up a culture men have been fucking up for way too long.

cate i'd be down for it...although methinks that women who would make it to the top these days would be of similar ilk to the men we are castigating.

Anyway if I'm going to get suspended for being inflammatory I just want to recap for the mods how this thread has been hilarious throughout. for instance, inlet has actually stated and I quote that there are JUST AS MANY negatives to come from the sexual revolution as positives, then (not than but more on this later) was shocked when people called him out on it - like seriously and seemingly hurtfully shocked by the response. Are there some negatives to come from it sure, but surely the positives outweigh the negatives by a long shot. next we picked apart the writing and research in the article, but again inlet asked us to look at the substance which was also crap - he denied it was stupid even though it was. Thirdly, blockhead has posted a bunch of shit that he didn't read because what he said didn't even match what the study's he posted found. but he ignores it when called out on it, because i don't know why. Fourth, inlet has at someone's grammar on a fucking messageboard, one of the basest lame ways of arguing with someone on the computer, but doesn't actually recognize his own then and than problem (check posts on pages 1 and 3). Fifth, inlet claims victimhood because i posted a comedy quote, then openly questioned what would happen if he presented this article and argument in his university classroom. i sure as shit know if i did the same thing what the response would be, and it would look something like this messageboard thread. Finally, Cate and brian are hopefully bringing us to a better place, where women aren't blamed for our declining happiness, and are respected for the beautiful, strong individuals they are. i've never even been warned, but anyway i hope all of you have happy and fun arguing for however long i get banned.

brianlux

catefrances wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Like racism, it totally blows my mind that chauvinism still exists. I suppose it's because people are afraid of what they are not. And I'm not saying you have to be wimpy to support feminism. Again, look at Henry Rollins. That guy would never give male chauvinists the time of day.

I know I'll catch flack for saying this, but our male-dominated culture is a failure and a disgrace. I would be glad to see a maternal society take over for a change. I say give the ladies a shot a fixing up a culture men have been fucking up for way too long.

do we get the same amount of time to fix it as the blokes have had to fuck it up?

I think you'll only need about half the time because women are better at multi-tasking but I'm guessing we'd like the results well enough to give you all the time you want! :thumbup:

brianlux

RW81233 wrote:

cate i'd be down for it...although methinks that women who would make it to the top these days would be of similar ilk to the men we are castigating.

The smart women will call out the one's imitating the men who messed things up. I'm think Barbara Boxer, Maria Cantwell and others like them.

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

seriously go ahead and report me if that's how you want to go. i essentially apologized for the carlin quote, but it was a quote the gist of which was a fairly strong response to some of the stuff we were discussing. i literally cut and pasted it from a comedy website, and i agreed with you that the initial part of it was stupid - at the same time it was the entire bit so have at me if you must.

The Carlin quote was one of many inflammatory issues you’re posts have opened up in this thread. First, calling an extremely large sect of people you disagree with ugly, is just immature, quote or not. Secondly, you’ve been consistently retorting back to me when I asked for civil discussion that that would make it “boring”. Why? Ask yourself. Third, you come in here and post up fictitious situations about me in my classes because you don’t agree with my underlying points in a thread on a rock band’s message board. We don’t have to agree, but why go there? That last one was unbelievably immature. You still haven’t apologized for that fictitious/degrading scenario you made up in your head about me and decided to type out. Why would I ever say “you suck” to a woman in my class in your head? I would never do that. I have real respect for women... and men. Honestly, after all of this, I don’t know if you have “respect” for anyone. I mean - What did this above add to the discussion exactly? Did it make you happy inside to make up stuff about another poster?

RW81233 wrote:

secondly if the mods came after me for my "inflamatory language" i ask would you present the article you posted here to the kids in your econ class yes or no? why or why not?

I’m not here to get people banned. I take apologies and accept them. I won’t, nor have I.. reported you. In fact, I won’t report anyone here because I’m a grown up. But, there are rules here and they are well thought out. So, seriously man, maybe you should read them. Or, alternatively act like an adult and check your posts before you hit submit in the future. We’re all pearl jam fans. We can have disagreements with each other and remain mature enough to not have to make up stuff about one another or insult one another. That type of behavior is just childish and shows a posters intolerance/ignorance.

RW81233 wrote:

what response would you hope or expect to ellicit in that setting? would you literally tell the women in your class that it is their fault for driving down "real wages"?

I would not post this article in my economics class. In my classes we talk about the subject we’re covering. I don't bring in un-related topics or even discuss anything related to my political points of view. I'm fair-minded because I couldn't stand having instructors jam their politics down my throat as a student. The subject of this article, although interesting, really wouldn’t fit properly into the scope of any of my classes. Economics can be applied to most things, even something like the choice of who you marry. That doesn’t mean I’d bring up that subject in class.

Further, I think you should really try to read what I write, rather than speak for me. I would never tell women or a woman it’s “their fault” for driving down real wages. Why? Well, because I don’t believe it’s their fault! Re-read that sentence if you must. Instead, I believe we had a cultural shift in our country, and as more women entered the labor force due to that cultural shift (supported by men and women), one of the negative consequences was what the increase in labor supply brought. You, my friend, admitted several pages back that an increase in labor supply holds down or at least constrains real wages. So, we believe the same thing, there was a negative consequence to more women entering the labor force in the form of real wages. This was fueled by our culture. The issue today, is that because real wages are lower, it’s more difficult to support a family on one income… which is too bad. But, it’s a reality and it’s most likely not going to change. That pretty much summarizes my take. Why you decided to take that to the places you have is beyond me.

RW81233 wrote:

if not then why the fuck are you doing it here and claiming victimhood? if so i am serious i would literally pay to see the response, because i'm sure you'd have some chauvinist pigs saying chauvinist things, and strong young women rising up to meet their stupidity. in short, it would look like one of my classes on physical cultural studies.

I posted the article here because it was an interesting discussion piece to discuss within a political-related message board. Many posters agree, or they probably wouldn't have posted in the thread. I mean - if the topic of the thread was so uninteresting, why are you in here?

Further, I’m not claiming victimhood in regards to anything other than an obviously angry poster posting fictitious things about me or posting inflammatory remarks regarding large sects of people. Call me crazy, but that’s uncalled for in my book.