I prefer no one has a nuclear weapon. Iran has stated over and over again that they have no intention of making a weapon. They only want nuclear power like much of the rest of the world has.
You can keep repeating the phrase "wants to wipe Israel off the map" as many times as you want. All it does is show that you have bought into Fox news propaganda and lack the ability to think for yourself. It was proven a long time ago that it was a bad translation of what was actually said. But GOP and right wing warhawks continue to push it knowing that fools will eat it up.
Everthing else that was said in Yosi's paragraph was garbage on so many levels. He said "Iran has been implicated in attacks on American troops in Iraq, funnelling money to Hamas and Hezbollah, and bombing jewish communities around the world". I don't deny that it is possible that some Iranians may have done all of those things. But so have Saudi's, Pakistani's, Egyptians, French, Germans, and many others from around the world. People from all over the world have been doing these things, even people from Israel. But we don't blame the governments for what individuals do. It just doesn't make sense, unless you are trying to push an agenda of war.
So by using Yosi's propaganda bought logic, you could replace Iran at the beginning of his paragraph with many other countries. I guess we may as well have a world war?
The fact of the matter is that Iran has NEVER attacked anyone. Iran is currently surrounded by American and Israeli armed forces. If anyone has the right to a pre-emptive strike it is Iran. Do you even realize how many threats America has levied against Iran??? And America's threats have come from leaders of the GOP, constantly pushing for bombing of a peaceful nation. America is fast becoming the new Nazi Germany.
And Iran is a peaceful nation. I think their leader would disagree with you in a quieter moment. If you want, I'm sure you are free to join him in his peaceful land where all he wants is nuclear power.
Ever see the kid that needles everyone, causes mischief and is just a general big annoying ass? Then the little guy gets up finally and pops him one in the mouth and he's the one that gets in trouble? Israel is the little guy. The bullies just don't get that he has big guns, yet. Which is amazing b/c he's been beating their asses for almost 60 years now. But, no. They'll keep needling and pulling the wool over some folks eyes (which is amazing unto itself).
Iran the innocent. Oh, I love it. Classic. And the US is bordering on being Nazi Germany.
This thread keeps getting better. Thank you.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
You can keep repeating the phrase "wants to wipe Israel off the map" as many times as you want. All it does is show that you have bought into Fox news propaganda and lack the ability to think for yourself. It was proven a long time ago that it was a bad translation of what was actually said. But GOP and right wing warhawks continue to push it knowing that fools will eat it up.
Out of curiosity...what, exactly, is the "good" translation of what was actually said. In other words, what did he actually say?
I knew you wouldn't be able to respond to anything else in my post because you know it's all true.
And Israel has been kicking ass?? Oh please Israel is the biggest pussy nation that has ever existed. If it wasn't for the Americans Israel would be toast. They can barely even handle the palestinians..15 year olds with rocks. They'd get demolished by the Iranians if they don't have Americas help and you know it.
I knew you wouldn't be able to respond to anything else in my post because you know it's all true.
And Israel has been kicking ass?? Oh please Israel is the biggest pussy nation that has ever existed. If it wasn't for the Americans Israel would be toast. They can barely even handle the palestinians..15 year olds with rocks. They'd get demolished by the Iranians if they don't have Americas help and you know it.
Biggest pussy nation that ever existed? Dude, are you serious? Have you ever heard of the six-day war? If not, look into it...I don't wanna spoil it for you.
Oh yeah, how's that "good" translation coming along? Have you found it yet?
You can keep repeating the phrase "wants to wipe Israel off the map" as many times as you want. All it does is show that you have bought into Fox news propaganda and lack the ability to think for yourself. It was proven a long time ago that it was a bad translation of what was actually said. But GOP and right wing warhawks continue to push it knowing that fools will eat it up.
Out of curiosity...what, exactly, is the "good" translation of what was actually said. In other words, what did he actually say?
Interesting. Thanks for that. Was he misquoted on the whole "Holocaust denial" thing too?
you can not attack any country for the opinions of it's leader....
the misquotation thing however, is a HUGE issue because most americansand conservative media actually believe that he actually said he wanted to wipe israel off of the map...
at any rate, the only reason israel is talking shit now is because the americans have their back. obama told bibi he did not want the us drawn into another war in the middle east. bibi sure seems to be pressing the issue though in spite of what obama said.
you know what this reminds me of? the kid on the playground who has a problem with another kid, so he recruits a few friends to "help" him kick that kid's ass, but when the fight actually happens, the friends do the majority of the work while the kid who started it sits back and enjoys it because he is risking the least by not really participating...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I knew you wouldn't be able to respond to anything else in my post because you know it's all true.
And Israel has been kicking ass?? Oh please Israel is the biggest pussy nation that has ever existed. If it wasn't for the Americans Israel would be toast. They can barely even handle the palestinians..15 year olds with rocks. They'd get demolished by the Iranians if they don't have Americas help and you know it.
Umm. Yeah. :? Sort of like when you picked out 1 paragraph of Yosi's commentary. :oops:
There's nothing to respond to, and your ignorance in the above says it all. If the US didn't hold Israel back AND Israel really wanted to, the Palestinian State discussion would have been over 40 years ago. But, yeah. Keep believing the rock throwers are uncontrollable by the Israelis....
This is sort of like saying the OWS folks were winning because the cops didn't beat the crap out of them like they should have. (Hyperbole alert! I'm not advocating beating up law abiding citizens - if there were any there. Just using the hyperbolic analogy device to make a point).
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
[ If the US didn't hold Israel back AND Israel really wanted to, the Palestinian State discussion would have been over 40 years ago.
wrong. the un is the only thing keeping israel from "ending the palestinian state discussion". if not for the un there would be no talk of a palestinian state and no talk of "illegal settlements".
like it or not, the us is complicit in what israel is doing to the palestinians because the us CONSTANTLY vetoes any penalty or any votes that are remotely critical of israel at the un...
the us has used their veto power a record number of times. also, when there are votes, the us is one of 3 to 5 countries who vote together to block anything critical of israel.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I stand by everything I've written, and I absolutely do not think it's bullshit at all. You should really do some research, because frankly the idea that Iran is just some poor law abiding nation that everyone all of a sudden has decided to pick on for no reason whatsoever is just ludicrous. All of the actions I mentioned (dealings with Hamas and Hezbollah, bombing Jewish sites, killing American soldiers, etc.) were carried out by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, a wing of the Iranian government. These were not, as you laughably implied, the actions of random Iranians. These are the results of Iranian government policy.
Regardless of what the perfect translation is, it's unarguable that those kinds of statements reflect an immense hostility towards Israel. It's not normal for the leaders of nations to talk this way about other sovereign states. This is the same reason why the holocaust deniel is relevant. When all of Iran's actions are taken together with the repeated hostile statements of its leaders towards Israel, I think it becomes perfectly understandable why Israel feels threatened by Iran.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Oh wow....really??? Iranian government officials have been saying for YEARS that Israel doesn't have a right to exist, should be wiped off the map, etc....even going so far as holocaust denial.
These are religious fanatics...they don't issue ultimatums...they just strike...and strike hard with the intention of killing as many people as possible. Wake up, dude!
i do not think israel has the right to exist in its current form. that does not mean i think israel should be 'wiped off the map'. what it means is i think israel should abide by UN resolutions. they should respect the international community as they wish to be respected themselves. tho if the israeli govt coouldnt give a toss about what the rest of the world thinks of their actions because we cant possibly understand the position they find themselves in nor their P.O.V., then nothing we say will make an iota of difference and the jews and palestinians are doomed for all eternity. must suck being an accursed people.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That can just be turned right back around though. If the international community wants Israel to listen to it then they need to respect Israel. I think often the criticisms made of Israel in international forums are legitimate, but from an Israeli perspective (even a left-wing one) it's undeniable that the international community seems to have a fetishistic obsession with condemning only Israel. There are lots of states that act as badly or worse than Israel, and yet Israel is the target of UN condemnation far far far more often then all of these other countries combined. If the international community wants Israel to respect them then they should stop applying a double standard by which Israel gets blamed (rightly or wrongly) all the time while everyone else gets a pass. If they did that then maybe Israelis would start to view the opinions of the international community as being more legitimate.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
That can just be turned right back around though. If the international community wants Israel to listen to it then they need to respect Israel. I think often the criticisms made of Israel in international forums are legitimate, but from an Israeli perspective (even a left-wing one) it's undeniable that the international community seems to have a fetishistic obsession with condemning only Israel. There are lots of states that act as badly or worse than Israel, and yet Israel is the target of UN condemnation far far far more often then all of these other countries combined. If the international community wants Israel to respect them then they should stop applying a double standard by which Israel gets blamed (rightly or wrongly) all the time while everyone else gets a pass. If they did that then maybe Israelis would start to view the opinions of the international community as being more legitimate.
i think youre right yosi, the international community chooses to condemn who they do most likely for their own reasons. and its not a standard applied across the board. i think perhaps the israel/palestinian conflict is more immdeiate in that its elevated in our consciousness to a greater degree than other conflicts throughout the world. i also think there is a degree of guilt when it comes to the holocaust and the need for jews to feel safe and to have a safe haven. i cant imagine anyone wants a repeat of those atrocities, however for some reason, never again hasnt come to mean never again. why this is, i dont know. we continue to allow massacres excusing our lack of intervention as either we didnt know(which in this day and age is inexcusable) or that somehow we dont have the right, despite knowing people are being killed. we choose to respect nations' sovereignty dependent on everything except their actions. i think the united nations is cuckolded to inertia in its need for unanimous decision making. the current situation in syria is a prime example of that.
as for the israel/palestinian situation i hold the israeli government more responsible because they are the government. theyve made decisions that fragment communities putting not only the palestinian people at a disadvantage but also 'their own' people. shouldnt their job be to bring their people, all their people(and i include both jew and arab) together? shouldnt they be fostering good relations between jews and arabs and not making decisions that divide? as the more powerful partner here should they not give a little more? should they not extend the groweth of their nation to the palestinians as well? is it to their advantage that they exclude such a large percentage of the population? i know a lot has happened these past decades. and i acknowledge that it is difficult to forget a past where one has been villified and threatened and tortured and murdered for no sane reason i can see. i also acknowledge that whilst ive stated i hold the israeli govt more responsible, i do not turn a blind eye to the violence coming from the palestinian side. i understand it, but i do not condone it. i also understand the whole self defense thing and that the israeli govt has the right to protect its citizens.. my problem comes with who theyve decided a citizen is. being on guard all the time is a shocking, and very tiring way to live and i think the israeli govt does a disservice to its people when it acts against the palestinians. these two peoples werent always at such odds, so what has chnaged and why has it changed? to whose advantage is it.. im fairly sure its not the peoples.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I stand by everything I've written, and I absolutely do not think it's bullshit at all. You should really do some research, because frankly the idea that Iran is just some poor law abiding nation that everyone all of a sudden has decided to pick on for no reason whatsoever is just ludicrous. All of the actions I mentioned (dealings with Hamas and Hezbollah, bombing Jewish sites, killing American soldiers, etc.) were carried out by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, a wing of the Iranian government. These were not, as you laughably implied, the actions of random Iranians. These are the results of Iranian government policy.
Regardless of what the perfect translation is, it's unarguable that those kinds of statements reflect an immense hostility towards Israel. It's not normal for the leaders of nations to talk this way about other sovereign states. This is the same reason why the holocaust deniel is relevant. When all of Iran's actions are taken together with the repeated hostile statements of its leaders towards Israel, I think it becomes perfectly understandable why Israel feels threatened by Iran.
Absolutely wrong. Show me any kind of proof that any active revolutionary guards have done the things you say. You say "results of Iranian policy", you are beyond full of shit. Policy is usually written so you must have proof. Show me any proof of Iranian policy that calls for the things you say are being carried out by their government. There must be documents since you say it is Iranian government policy.
An active US soldier just killed 17 afghan civilians, it must be the policy of the United States to slaughter afghanis.....oh wait :oops:
You're right. When Iran trains and funds and arms terrorist groups they write down exactly what they are doing and then they send me the documents so that I'll know what's going on. :roll: :roll: :roll:
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Jeffrey Goldberg reporting on a story from the Fars News Agency:
The wife of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, the scientist (a deputy director of the Natanz Uranium Enrichment plant) who was assassinated in Tehran last month, says her husband's "ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel."
But you're right, I'm just making all this shit up. :roll:
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
You're right. When Iran trains and funds and arms terrorist groups they write down exactly what they are doing and then they send me the documents so that I'll know what's going on. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ahh I see. But you said it's their policy. Where'd you get that from? Or were you just spouting propaganda to serve an agenda of war against Iran?
The fact of the matter is you have absolutely zero proof. Just the word of right wing warhawks. Just like Iraq had weapons of mass destuction :roll: People like you are creating an atmosphere for destruction of our civilization.
It's time for everyone to stop believing everything they hear on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or Al Jazeera. Do your own research. Think for yourselves.
Iran plotted to carry out a terror attack on an Israeli ship as it passed through Egypt’s Suez Canal, a report in the Egyptian Al-Ahram weekly claimed on Friday.
According to the report, the Egyptian terror operatives received instructions and funds from Iranian handlers ahead of the planned attack.
Egyptian authorities made no official comment on the report by Saturday night.
The suspects allegedly planned to recruit a third member to their cell, and were supposed to receive 50 million Egyptian pounds to carry out the plan.
If confirmed, the plot could strain ties between Iran and Egypt, which is in the midst of a political transformation.
Islamist parties control the lower parliament in Cairo, and the Muslim Brotherhood’s party, which is the largest in parliament, said it may field a candidate for the presidential elections.
Nevertheless, the ruling military council is determined to retain some power.
Some members of the new Egyptian parliament have indicated that they will seek closer ties to Iran. Under former president Hosni Mubarak’s regime, Cairo viewed Tehran as a hostile, radical force in the region, and ties between the two country were frozen for years.
The report on the alleged ship bomb plot comes after a series of failed attacks on Israeli targets in India, Thailand and Georgia last month, all of which have been linked to Iran.
On Friday, India’s NDTV news site said New Delhi requested that Interpol issue Red Corner warrants against four Iranians, one of whom was arrested by Malaysian police at Kuala Lampa airport.
The New Delhi police chief said earlier this month that a fifth suspect, an Indian-Muslim journalist with ties to Iran, helped carry out reconnaissance ahead of the February attack, which seriously injured Tal Yehoshua Koren, the wife of the Israeli defense attache to India.
Speaking soon after the attacks, senior security analyst Dr. Ely Karmon said that had the terrorists succeeded, they could have provoked a strong Israeli response.
“What amazes me about all of these attempts is the fact that one successful attack, one Israeli embassy blown up, is a casus belli,” a Latin phrase meaning a justification for war, said Karmon, of the Interdisciplinary Center’s Institute for Counter-Terrorism.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Jeffrey Goldberg reporting on a story from the Fars News Agency:
The wife of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, the scientist (a deputy director of the Natanz Uranium Enrichment plant) who was assassinated in Tehran last month, says her husband's "ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel."
But you're right, I'm just making all this shit up. :roll:
Hahaha the wife of some guy who was a scientist who is now dead and can't refute the story....ahahahah that's your proof?
You're right. When Iran trains and funds and arms terrorist groups they write down exactly what they are doing and then they send me the documents so that I'll know what's going on. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ahh I see. But you said it's their policy. Where'd you get that from? Or were you just spouting propaganda to serve an agenda of war against Iran?
The fact of the matter is you have absolutely zero proof. Just the word of right wing warhawks. Just like Iraq had weapons of mass destuction :roll: People like you are creating an atmosphere for destruction of our civilization.
It's time for everyone to stop believing everything they hear on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or Al Jazeera. Do your own research. Think for yourselves.
I don't understand you at all. You reject out of hand any information that doesn't conform to your own preconceived notions. You say not to believe anything reported in the news. Well then how is anyone supposed to have an informed opinion. Clearly one should be skeptical, but the most reliable sources of news are still the large news agencies with the resources to do first hand reporting. Skulking around the internet looking for news sources that confirm your biases is not thinking for yourself. It's just being blind.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Iran plotted to carry out a terror attack on an Israeli ship as it passed through Egypt’s Suez Canal, a report in the Egyptian Al-Ahram weekly claimed on Friday.
According to the report, the Egyptian terror operatives received instructions and funds from Iranian handlers ahead of the planned attack.
Egyptian authorities made no official comment on the report by Saturday night.
The suspects allegedly planned to recruit a third member to their cell, and were supposed to receive 50 million Egyptian pounds to carry out the plan.
If confirmed, the plot could strain ties between Iran and Egypt, which is in the midst of a political transformation.
Islamist parties control the lower parliament in Cairo, and the Muslim Brotherhood’s party, which is the largest in parliament, said it may field a candidate for the presidential elections.
Nevertheless, the ruling military council is determined to retain some power.
Some members of the new Egyptian parliament have indicated that they will seek closer ties to Iran. Under former president Hosni Mubarak’s regime, Cairo viewed Tehran as a hostile, radical force in the region, and ties between the two country were frozen for years.
The report on the alleged ship bomb plot comes after a series of failed attacks on Israeli targets in India, Thailand and Georgia last month, all of which have been linked to Iran.
On Friday, India’s NDTV news site said New Delhi requested that Interpol issue Red Corner warrants against four Iranians, one of whom was arrested by Malaysian police at Kuala Lampa airport.
The New Delhi police chief said earlier this month that a fifth suspect, an Indian-Muslim journalist with ties to Iran, helped carry out reconnaissance ahead of the February attack, which seriously injured Tal Yehoshua Koren, the wife of the Israeli defense attache to India.
Speaking soon after the attacks, senior security analyst Dr. Ely Karmon said that had the terrorists succeeded, they could have provoked a strong Israeli response.
“What amazes me about all of these attempts is the fact that one successful attack, one Israeli embassy blown up, is a casus belli,” a Latin phrase meaning a justification for war, said Karmon, of the Interdisciplinary Center’s Institute for Counter-Terrorism.
Again!! A plot carried out by "Iran" or by Iranians? And one of the suspects is Indian-Muslim "with ties to Iran" Ya, he's friends with Iranians obviously... Nothing in this report suggests anyone had anything to do with Iranian government. You are grasping at straws now. Your agenda is pathetic.
Of course some Iranians are going to want to destroy Israel and the United States. Just like some Jews and Americans want to destroy Iran and most Muslim nations. And you Yosi are just like the terrorists from those Muslim nations. They do the same thing you are doing. They take incidents like the soldier in Afghanistan killing civilians and use it to push an agenda of war and destruction against the west. You are no better than the muslim terrorists. It's time for both sides to stop!! And you are fanning the flames.
From the academic journal "Studies in Conflict & Terrorism":
Terrorism, of course, was also a means for Iran to strike the United States and Israel. With Iranian guidance, the Lebanese Hizballah dramatically captured America's attention with devastating suicide attacks on the U.S. embassy in Beirut in April 1983, where 63 people died, including 17 Americans, and on the U.S. Marine Barracks in October 1983, where 241 U.S. Marines were killed (a simultaneous attack killed 58 French peacekeepers). These attacks, and the sense that the peacekeepers had little peace to keep, led President Reagan to withdraw U.S. troops in February 1984. Hizballah also took numerous Westerners hostage in the 1980s, executing several of them. Hizballah, often working through suborganizations with different names, took 17 Americans, 15 Frenchmen, 14 Britons, 7 Swiss, and 7 West Germans hostage, as well as 27 others hostage during the 1980s. 10 In March 1992, Hizballah and Iran worked together to bomb the Israeli embassy in Argentina, killing 29 and in July 1994 attacked the Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires, killing 86. Hizballah also aided other groups that shared its agenda. Iran also directed the attack on the U.S. military facility of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, killing 17 American troops. 11 In addition to its support for Hizballah, Iran has also supported a wide array of other groups that have attacked Israel. In each of these instances, Tehran was able to compensate for its military inferiority by relying on terrorism.
Terrorism also offered Iran some degree of deniability in this effort. By working through proxies, Iran was able to achieve its own interests against the United States, Israel, or states supporting Iraq without paying the consequences that more direct involvement might entail...Of the many terrorist groups that Iran has sponsored, none is more important to Tehran than the Lebanese Hizballah. 13 Their close relationship is perhaps the strongest and most effective relationship between a state sponsor and a terrorist group in history. Iran helped found, organize, and train Hizballah, eventually creating a strong and relatively independent terrorist group. In exchange, Hizballah has served Iran loyally, striking Iran's various foreign enemies, helping assassinate Iranian dissidents, and otherwise advancing the interests of the Islamic Republic. Iran, as noted earlier, helped build the movement from the ground up and to this day plays a major role in sustaining it and its day-to-day operations. Iranian sponsorship of Hizballah is a major reason why Iran consistently tops the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism. Although exact figures are difficult to verify, Tehran provides perhaps $100 million per year to Hizballah—a figure that may have increased after the summer 2006 Israel–Hizballah war. In addition, Iranian forces train the movement and provide it with intelligence. Moreover, Hizballah operatives enjoy close ties to Iranian intelligence and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which is linked directly to Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. Hizballah's senior terrorist, Imad Mugniyieh, reportedly enjoys Iranian citizenship and regularly travels there. Hizballah's leadership proclaims its loyalty to Khamenei, and he reportedly serves as an arbiter for group decisions. Iran is particularly influential with regard to Hizballah activities overseas. Hizballah, for example, stopped its attacks in Europe as part of a broader Iranian decision to halt attacks there.
In exchange for this aid, Iran gains a weapon against Israel and influence far beyond its borders. Because of Hizballah, Iran has defied geography and has become a player in the Middle East peace process. Hizballah also has cells and operatives around the world—a presence that allows Iran to step up terrorism should it so choose.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
That piece is not speculation. It is a carefully researched academic article. I don't want war, and I don't doubt that there are many Iranians (maybe even a majority) who want peace. But that doesn't change the reality that their government is a really bad actor on the world stage. Burying your head in the sand and ignoring the truth doesn't do anyone any good.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
That piece is not speculation. It is a carefully researched academic article. I don't want war, and I don't doubt that there are many Iranians (maybe even a majority) who want peace. But that doesn't change the reality that their government is a really bad actor on the world stage. Burying your head in the sand and ignoring the truth doesn't do anyone any good.
It is obviously a one sided hit piece. It even states the author doesn't know for sure how much money Iran gives to Hezbollah. They are just giving random estimates. Do you realize how much Money the U.S. has given to nations like Pakistan and Egypt? Do you really believe that none of that cash has benefitted terrorist organizations? Maybe Israel should pre-emptivly strike America using your logic??
I have never denied that Iran has ties to Hezbollah or Hamas. I have just pointed out your outright lies that have been bought with propaganda to push an agenda.
I don't believe Iran is completely innocent on the world stage. I just strongly condemn the Idea of a pre-emptive strike against them. (you know, the threads title)
Comments
You can keep repeating the phrase "wants to wipe Israel off the map" as many times as you want. All it does is show that you have bought into Fox news propaganda and lack the ability to think for yourself. It was proven a long time ago that it was a bad translation of what was actually said. But GOP and right wing warhawks continue to push it knowing that fools will eat it up.
Everthing else that was said in Yosi's paragraph was garbage on so many levels. He said "Iran has been implicated in attacks on American troops in Iraq, funnelling money to Hamas and Hezbollah, and bombing jewish communities around the world". I don't deny that it is possible that some Iranians may have done all of those things. But so have Saudi's, Pakistani's, Egyptians, French, Germans, and many others from around the world. People from all over the world have been doing these things, even people from Israel. But we don't blame the governments for what individuals do. It just doesn't make sense, unless you are trying to push an agenda of war.
So by using Yosi's propaganda bought logic, you could replace Iran at the beginning of his paragraph with many other countries. I guess we may as well have a world war?
The fact of the matter is that Iran has NEVER attacked anyone. Iran is currently surrounded by American and Israeli armed forces. If anyone has the right to a pre-emptive strike it is Iran. Do you even realize how many threats America has levied against Iran??? And America's threats have come from leaders of the GOP, constantly pushing for bombing of a peaceful nation. America is fast becoming the new Nazi Germany.
Classic ending. Bravo!
And Iran is a peaceful nation.
Ever see the kid that needles everyone, causes mischief and is just a general big annoying ass? Then the little guy gets up finally and pops him one in the mouth and he's the one that gets in trouble? Israel is the little guy. The bullies just don't get that he has big guns, yet. Which is amazing b/c he's been beating their asses for almost 60 years now.
Iran the innocent.
This thread keeps getting better. Thank you.
Out of curiosity...what, exactly, is the "good" translation of what was actually said. In other words, what did he actually say?
And Israel has been kicking ass?? Oh please
Biggest pussy nation that ever existed? Dude, are you serious? Have you ever heard of the six-day war? If not, look into it...I don't wanna spoil it for you.
Oh yeah, how's that "good" translation coming along? Have you found it yet?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... omment.usa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... 14/post155
I don't give a shit about the "holocaust denial". We don't attack sovereign nations because their leaders are idiots and say idiotic things.
the misquotation thing however, is a HUGE issue because most americansand conservative media actually believe that he actually said he wanted to wipe israel off of the map...
at any rate, the only reason israel is talking shit now is because the americans have their back. obama told bibi he did not want the us drawn into another war in the middle east. bibi sure seems to be pressing the issue though in spite of what obama said.
you know what this reminds me of? the kid on the playground who has a problem with another kid, so he recruits a few friends to "help" him kick that kid's ass, but when the fight actually happens, the friends do the majority of the work while the kid who started it sits back and enjoys it because he is risking the least by not really participating...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Umm. Yeah. :? Sort of like when you picked out 1 paragraph of Yosi's commentary. :oops:
There's nothing to respond to, and your ignorance in the above says it all. If the US didn't hold Israel back AND Israel really wanted to, the Palestinian State discussion would have been over 40 years ago. But, yeah. Keep believing the rock throwers are uncontrollable by the Israelis....
This is sort of like saying the OWS folks were winning because the cops didn't beat the crap out of them like they should have. (Hyperbole alert! I'm not advocating beating up law abiding citizens - if there were any there. Just using the hyperbolic analogy device to make a point).
True...if that were the case, we should attack ourselves NOW!!!
wrong. the un is the only thing keeping israel from "ending the palestinian state discussion". if not for the un there would be no talk of a palestinian state and no talk of "illegal settlements".
like it or not, the us is complicit in what israel is doing to the palestinians because the us CONSTANTLY vetoes any penalty or any votes that are remotely critical of israel at the un...
the us has used their veto power a record number of times. also, when there are votes, the us is one of 3 to 5 countries who vote together to block anything critical of israel.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I stand by everything I've written, and I absolutely do not think it's bullshit at all. You should really do some research, because frankly the idea that Iran is just some poor law abiding nation that everyone all of a sudden has decided to pick on for no reason whatsoever is just ludicrous. All of the actions I mentioned (dealings with Hamas and Hezbollah, bombing Jewish sites, killing American soldiers, etc.) were carried out by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, a wing of the Iranian government. These were not, as you laughably implied, the actions of random Iranians. These are the results of Iranian government policy.
Regardless of what the perfect translation is, it's unarguable that those kinds of statements reflect an immense hostility towards Israel. It's not normal for the leaders of nations to talk this way about other sovereign states. This is the same reason why the holocaust deniel is relevant. When all of Iran's actions are taken together with the repeated hostile statements of its leaders towards Israel, I think it becomes perfectly understandable why Israel feels threatened by Iran.
i do not think israel has the right to exist in its current form. that does not mean i think israel should be 'wiped off the map'. what it means is i think israel should abide by UN resolutions. they should respect the international community as they wish to be respected themselves. tho if the israeli govt coouldnt give a toss about what the rest of the world thinks of their actions because we cant possibly understand the position they find themselves in nor their P.O.V., then nothing we say will make an iota of difference and the jews and palestinians are doomed for all eternity. must suck being an accursed people.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i think youre right yosi, the international community chooses to condemn who they do most likely for their own reasons. and its not a standard applied across the board. i think perhaps the israel/palestinian conflict is more immdeiate in that its elevated in our consciousness to a greater degree than other conflicts throughout the world. i also think there is a degree of guilt when it comes to the holocaust and the need for jews to feel safe and to have a safe haven. i cant imagine anyone wants a repeat of those atrocities, however for some reason, never again hasnt come to mean never again. why this is, i dont know. we continue to allow massacres excusing our lack of intervention as either we didnt know(which in this day and age is inexcusable) or that somehow we dont have the right, despite knowing people are being killed. we choose to respect nations' sovereignty dependent on everything except their actions. i think the united nations is cuckolded to inertia in its need for unanimous decision making. the current situation in syria is a prime example of that.
as for the israel/palestinian situation i hold the israeli government more responsible because they are the government. theyve made decisions that fragment communities putting not only the palestinian people at a disadvantage but also 'their own' people. shouldnt their job be to bring their people, all their people(and i include both jew and arab) together? shouldnt they be fostering good relations between jews and arabs and not making decisions that divide? as the more powerful partner here should they not give a little more? should they not extend the groweth of their nation to the palestinians as well? is it to their advantage that they exclude such a large percentage of the population? i know a lot has happened these past decades. and i acknowledge that it is difficult to forget a past where one has been villified and threatened and tortured and murdered for no sane reason i can see. i also acknowledge that whilst ive stated i hold the israeli govt more responsible, i do not turn a blind eye to the violence coming from the palestinian side. i understand it, but i do not condone it. i also understand the whole self defense thing and that the israeli govt has the right to protect its citizens.. my problem comes with who theyve decided a citizen is. being on guard all the time is a shocking, and very tiring way to live and i think the israeli govt does a disservice to its people when it acts against the palestinians. these two peoples werent always at such odds, so what has chnaged and why has it changed? to whose advantage is it.. im fairly sure its not the peoples.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Absolutely wrong. Show me any kind of proof that any active revolutionary guards have done the things you say. You say "results of Iranian policy", you are beyond full of shit. Policy is usually written so you must have proof. Show me any proof of Iranian policy that calls for the things you say are being carried out by their government. There must be documents since you say it is Iranian government policy.
An active US soldier just killed 17 afghan civilians, it must be the policy of the United States to slaughter afghanis.....oh wait :oops:
The wife of Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, the scientist (a deputy director of the Natanz Uranium Enrichment plant) who was assassinated in Tehran last month, says her husband's "ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel."
But you're right, I'm just making all this shit up. :roll:
Ahh I see. But you said it's their policy. Where'd you get that from? Or were you just spouting propaganda to serve an agenda of war against Iran?
The fact of the matter is you have absolutely zero proof. Just the word of right wing warhawks. Just like Iraq had weapons of mass destuction :roll: People like you are creating an atmosphere for destruction of our civilization.
It's time for everyone to stop believing everything they hear on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or Al Jazeera. Do your own research. Think for yourselves.
According to the report, the Egyptian terror operatives received instructions and funds from Iranian handlers ahead of the planned attack.
Egyptian authorities made no official comment on the report by Saturday night.
The suspects allegedly planned to recruit a third member to their cell, and were supposed to receive 50 million Egyptian pounds to carry out the plan.
If confirmed, the plot could strain ties between Iran and Egypt, which is in the midst of a political transformation.
Islamist parties control the lower parliament in Cairo, and the Muslim Brotherhood’s party, which is the largest in parliament, said it may field a candidate for the presidential elections.
Nevertheless, the ruling military council is determined to retain some power.
Some members of the new Egyptian parliament have indicated that they will seek closer ties to Iran. Under former president Hosni Mubarak’s regime, Cairo viewed Tehran as a hostile, radical force in the region, and ties between the two country were frozen for years.
The report on the alleged ship bomb plot comes after a series of failed attacks on Israeli targets in India, Thailand and Georgia last month, all of which have been linked to Iran.
On Friday, India’s NDTV news site said New Delhi requested that Interpol issue Red Corner warrants against four Iranians, one of whom was arrested by Malaysian police at Kuala Lampa airport.
The New Delhi police chief said earlier this month that a fifth suspect, an Indian-Muslim journalist with ties to Iran, helped carry out reconnaissance ahead of the February attack, which seriously injured Tal Yehoshua Koren, the wife of the Israeli defense attache to India.
Speaking soon after the attacks, senior security analyst Dr. Ely Karmon said that had the terrorists succeeded, they could have provoked a strong Israeli response.
“What amazes me about all of these attempts is the fact that one successful attack, one Israeli embassy blown up, is a casus belli,” a Latin phrase meaning a justification for war, said Karmon, of the Interdisciplinary Center’s Institute for Counter-Terrorism.
Hahaha the wife of some guy who was a scientist who is now dead and can't refute the story....ahahahah that's your proof?
I don't understand you at all. You reject out of hand any information that doesn't conform to your own preconceived notions. You say not to believe anything reported in the news. Well then how is anyone supposed to have an informed opinion. Clearly one should be skeptical, but the most reliable sources of news are still the large news agencies with the resources to do first hand reporting. Skulking around the internet looking for news sources that confirm your biases is not thinking for yourself. It's just being blind.
Again!! A plot carried out by "Iran" or by Iranians? And one of the suspects is Indian-Muslim "with ties to Iran"
Of course some Iranians are going to want to destroy Israel and the United States. Just like some Jews and Americans want to destroy Iran and most Muslim nations. And you Yosi are just like the terrorists from those Muslim nations. They do the same thing you are doing. They take incidents like the soldier in Afghanistan killing civilians and use it to push an agenda of war and destruction against the west. You are no better than the muslim terrorists. It's time for both sides to stop!! And you are fanning the flames.
Terrorism, of course, was also a means for Iran to strike the United States and Israel. With Iranian guidance, the Lebanese Hizballah dramatically captured America's attention with devastating suicide attacks on the U.S. embassy in Beirut in April 1983, where 63 people died, including 17 Americans, and on the U.S. Marine Barracks in October 1983, where 241 U.S. Marines were killed (a simultaneous attack killed 58 French peacekeepers). These attacks, and the sense that the peacekeepers had little peace to keep, led President Reagan to withdraw U.S. troops in February 1984. Hizballah also took numerous Westerners hostage in the 1980s, executing several of them. Hizballah, often working through suborganizations with different names, took 17 Americans, 15 Frenchmen, 14 Britons, 7 Swiss, and 7 West Germans hostage, as well as 27 others hostage during the 1980s. 10 In March 1992, Hizballah and Iran worked together to bomb the Israeli embassy in Argentina, killing 29 and in July 1994 attacked the Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires, killing 86. Hizballah also aided other groups that shared its agenda. Iran also directed the attack on the U.S. military facility of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, killing 17 American troops. 11 In addition to its support for Hizballah, Iran has also supported a wide array of other groups that have attacked Israel. In each of these instances, Tehran was able to compensate for its military inferiority by relying on terrorism.
Terrorism also offered Iran some degree of deniability in this effort. By working through proxies, Iran was able to achieve its own interests against the United States, Israel, or states supporting Iraq without paying the consequences that more direct involvement might entail...Of the many terrorist groups that Iran has sponsored, none is more important to Tehran than the Lebanese Hizballah. 13 Their close relationship is perhaps the strongest and most effective relationship between a state sponsor and a terrorist group in history. Iran helped found, organize, and train Hizballah, eventually creating a strong and relatively independent terrorist group. In exchange, Hizballah has served Iran loyally, striking Iran's various foreign enemies, helping assassinate Iranian dissidents, and otherwise advancing the interests of the Islamic Republic.
Iran, as noted earlier, helped build the movement from the ground up and to this day plays a major role in sustaining it and its day-to-day operations. Iranian sponsorship of Hizballah is a major reason why Iran consistently tops the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism. Although exact figures are difficult to verify, Tehran provides perhaps $100 million per year to Hizballah—a figure that may have increased after the summer 2006 Israel–Hizballah war. In addition, Iranian forces train the movement and provide it with intelligence. Moreover, Hizballah operatives enjoy close ties to Iranian intelligence and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which is linked directly to Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. Hizballah's senior terrorist, Imad Mugniyieh, reportedly enjoys Iranian citizenship and regularly travels there. Hizballah's leadership proclaims its loyalty to Khamenei, and he reportedly serves as an arbiter for group decisions. Iran is particularly influential with regard to Hizballah activities overseas. Hizballah, for example, stopped its attacks in Europe as part of a broader Iranian decision to halt attacks there.
In exchange for this aid, Iran gains a weapon against Israel and influence far beyond its borders. Because of Hizballah, Iran has defied geography and has become a player in the Middle East peace process. Hizballah also has cells and operatives around the world—a presence that allows Iran to step up terrorism should it so choose.
There are a large number of Iranians that only want peace. You are helping to silence them by spreading hate.
It is obviously a one sided hit piece. It even states the author doesn't know for sure how much money Iran gives to Hezbollah. They are just giving random estimates. Do you realize how much Money the U.S. has given to nations like Pakistan and Egypt? Do you really believe that none of that cash has benefitted terrorist organizations? Maybe Israel should pre-emptivly strike America using your logic??
I have never denied that Iran has ties to Hezbollah or Hamas. I have just pointed out your outright lies that have been bought with propaganda to push an agenda.
I don't believe Iran is completely innocent on the world stage. I just strongly condemn the Idea of a pre-emptive strike against them. (you know, the threads title)