Are Rich People more prone to be unethical?

JonnyPistachio

Its strange that high profile organizations waste time on silly studies like this:
But it does make you think!

http://money.msn.com/family-money/why-a ... eston.aspx

"...the researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Toronto conducted six other studies studying wealth and ethics, with similar results: The wealthier the person, the more likely he or she was to engage in unethical behavior. (One study gauged the propensity to cheat based on the self-reported social class, another the likelihood of taking candy meant for children.)"

polaris_x

great study that reinforces my personal bias towards rich people ...

gimmesometruth27

i heard about this a few weeks ago. i was not surprised by the findings, but rich people usually know the system and are able to work it their advantage, and sometimes that involves being somewhat less than ethical.

people always say "anybody can get rich". but i do not think that this is true because in many cases gaining wealth means taking advantage of someone at some point, and some people have a problem with that.

g under p

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Its strange that high profile organizations waste time on silly studies like this:
But it does make you think!

http://money.msn.com/family-money/why-a ... eston.aspx

"...the researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Toronto conducted six other studies studying wealth and ethics, with similar results: The wealthier the person, the more likely he or she was to engage in unethical behavior. (One study gauged the propensity to cheat based on the self-reported social class, another the likelihood of taking candy meant for children.)"

JP, I think there's some truth to this that, rich people are prone to unethical behavior. I work in Palm Beach with many kinds of wealthy people/clients and many times they appear to have a propensity towards cutting corners with taxes, buying their yachts in the Bahamas or outright greed buying into financial planners/investors like Bernie Madoff.

Many times this is driven by the fact that no matter how bad things may get they MUST keep their status and heirachy in the community of wealth. They'll do whatever it takes to keep that status and if they lose it they are treated as outcasts.

Peace

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i heard about this a few weeks ago. i was not surprised by the findings, but rich people usually know the system and are able to work it their advantage, and sometimes that involves being somewhat less than ethical.

people always say "anybody can get rich". but i do not think that this is true because in many cases gaining wealth means taking advantage of someone at some point, and some people have a problem with that.

that is exactly why I got out of sales to begin with... I didn't have the stomach for what we had to do to other people just trying to make a living, and I wasn't even in a high level position. These findings certainly don't surprise me.
In a more philosophical sense, what is rich? what is successful? i think that measure is more subjective than may be portrayed in most discussions of the American Dream.
And as a devil's advocate, ethics have a different meaning to people...what if someone believed it was unethical to not try your best to provide for your family, no matter what.
Personally I don't think that way, but some might.
Discussing the ethics of business always reminds of billy madison

Interesting study. I think it coincides with the whole CEO/sociopath stuff.

pandora

It's too much of a generalization for me...

People get their wealth in many different ways, keep it, use it in many different ways.

Money changes people for sure this I know and can unfortunately make one feel
superior when really in the end they are no different then a pauper,
money can really screw with one's head.

BinauralJam

This is probably the opposite end of the spectrum, like assuming people on public assistence are drug addicts and need to be tested.

In my job i work with the lowest of the low and the highest of the high, i've scene good and bad on both sides.

g under p

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i heard about this a few weeks ago. i was not surprised by the findings, but rich people usually know the system and are able to work it their advantage, and sometimes that involves being somewhat less than ethical.

people always say "anybody can get rich". but i do not think that this is true because in many cases gaining wealth means taking advantage of someone at some point, and some people have a problem with that.

You are absolutely right if they don't know the system themselves what they tend to do is use their wealth to get the people who do know how to manipulate the system to their advantage. I've seen it for myself many times.....is anything wrong with that...depends...I on the other hand have had to work two jobs to get my advantage in this system of ours.

Peace

justam

I think it's related to being opportunistic. :geek:

opportunistic |ˌäpərt(y)oōˈnistik|
adjective
exploiting chances offered by immediate circumstances without reference to a general plan or moral principle : the change was cynical and opportunistic.
• Ecology (of a plant or animal) able to spread quickly in a previously unexploited habitat.
• Medicine (of a microorganism or an infection caused by it) rarely affecting patients except in unusual circumstances, typically when the immune system is depressed.
DERIVATIVES
opportunistically |-ik(ə)lē| adverb

hedonist

I think anyone can be prone to unethical behavior. And I don't get the demonizing of the wealthy; many (I know, not ALL) of them have earned it...taken a risk, made an investment, saw an opportunity where others didn't.

The two men who own the company I work for are rich as fuck. They started their business with very little, saw the potential of undeveloped land, bought it, and developed it. They treat their employees extremely well, and are decent, down-to-earth people. I begrudge them nothing.

Much of my mom's family came to the US from Iran with virtually nothing, and most would now be considered very well off. And not because they fucked someone (or many someones) over, but because they earned it, worked hard for it, for a long time.

Many similar stories out there.

I'm also apt to agree with BinauralJam's comments.

Monster Rain

I think everyone is equally prone to being unethical. Everyone has their own set of ethics so there's a very large gray area. What I consider unethical might seem perfectly fine to someone else or vice versa. Some professions or companies might have some sort of written code of ethics but there's no such thing for everyday life.

Jeanwah

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

people always say "anybody can get rich". but i do not think that this is true because in many cases gaining wealth means taking advantage of someone at some point, and some people have a problem with that.

I tend to agree with this and have seen it way first hand way too often. But I don't like to stereotype. I have seen some rich people be generous, but not as often.

polaris_x

the prosperity gap is widening ... the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer ... is it a coincidence that the rich control gov'ts and big corporations which influence gov't policy!?? ... is it a coincidence that loopholes in the tax code benefit the rich? ...

sure, any generalization is not going to paint everyone perfectly but the decision to not pay out settlements from exxon valdez or get unsafe drugs approved into the market are not done by poor people that's for sure ...

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

the prosperity gap is widening ... the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer ... is it a coincidence that the rich control gov'ts and big corporations which influence gov't policy!?? ... is it a coincidence that loopholes in the tax code benefit the rich? ...

sure, any generalization is not going to paint everyone perfectly but the decision to not pay out settlements from exxon valdez or get unsafe drugs approved into the market are not done by poor people that's for sure ...

Want to tell me what the prison stats say about poor people...

polaris_x

Blockhead wrote:

Want to tell me what the prison stats say about poor people...

uhhh ... i'm not sure ... why don't you enlighten us?

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

the prosperity gap is widening ... the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer ... is it a coincidence that the rich control gov'ts and big corporations which influence gov't policy!?? ... is it a coincidence that loopholes in the tax code benefit the rich? ...

sure, any generalization is not going to paint everyone perfectly but the decision to not pay out settlements from exxon valdez or get unsafe drugs approved into the market are not done by poor people that's for sure ...

Want to tell me what the prison stats say about poor people...

I know what you're getting at...but maybe its because white collar crime is easier to get away with when you can cover it up. Also, when you've got everything you want, why rob and steal?

Anyways, I thought this article was interesting because I am also in palm beach, like GunderP, and although I know a lot of rich folks who are good, kind people, there are a lot of wealthy people here who push people around because they have money. Even a former employer of mine, who was a nice person, was affected negatively by his wealth because people were afraid of him and never said NO to him. He always got what he wanted, and the rare occasion that he didnt, he didnt know how to react other than with anger.

I do think its easier to be unethical if you have no one to answer to.

polaris_x

the prison system is a symbol of the fraud and influence of the wealthy ... prisons are big business ... ever since they were able to privatize it ... now, these wealthy owners of prisons want to build more and in order to facilitate the building of more, they need to fill these prisons ... so, they get their states to write up stupid laws (see marijuana) and incarcerate (mostly poor) people in order to justify state spending on prisons ...

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

Want to tell me what the prison stats say about poor people...

uhhh ... i'm not sure ... why don't you enlighten us?

http://www.fcnetwork.org/Resource%20Cen ... tm#NOTES35
"At the time of their arrest, 90% had an income below $25,000, and 69% had an income below poverty level"

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

the prison system is a symbol of the fraud and influence of the wealthy ... prisons are big business ... ever since they were able to privatize it ... now, these wealthy owners of prisons want to build more and in order to facilitate the building of more, they need to fill these prisons ... so, they get their states to write up stupid laws (see marijuana) and incarcerate (mostly poor) people in order to justify state spending on prisons ...

Ahhh yes, its the wealthy/rich people making poor people commit crimes...
:roll: Anything else you want to blame on wealthy people?

g under p

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

the prosperity gap is widening ... the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer ... is it a coincidence that the rich control gov'ts and big corporations which influence gov't policy!?? ... is it a coincidence that loopholes in the tax code benefit the rich? ...

sure, any generalization is not going to paint everyone perfectly but the decision to not pay out settlements from exxon valdez or get unsafe drugs approved into the market are not done by poor people that's for sure ...

Want to tell me what the prison stats say about poor people...

I know what you're getting at...but maybe its because white collar crime is easier to get away with when you can cover it up. Also, when you've got everything you want, why rob and steal?

Anyways, I thought this article was interesting because I am also in palm beach, like GunderP, and although I know a lot of rich folks who are good, kind people, there are a lot of wealthy people here who push people around because they have money. Even a former employer of mine, who was a nice person, was affected negatively by his wealth because people were afraid of him and never said NO to him. He always got what he wanted, and the rare occasion that he didnt, he didnt know how to react other than with anger.

I do think its easier to be unethical if you have no one to answer to.

Speaking of pushing people around ...just look at the John Goodman DUI case here in Wellington.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime ... 30334.html

Was it ethical for him to try and do this with some of his money?...

Then, this year, it was announced that he had adopted his girlfriend, potentially giving her access to some of the $300 million his attorneys said is held in trust for his two children. Again, critics protested, viewing it as a ploy to keep Wilson's parents from getting the money they deserved.

It seemed like an attempt to try and keep as much of his money just in case he is convicted of manslaughter. more on the case...
http://www.local10.com/news/Testimony-b ... index.html Somehow i do believe he will be found innocent of this charge.

Don't get me wrong many of the wealthy Palm Beachers that i know and know of do so much for this area in their generosity to the various causes they're involved in. Many charities seek them out to get help for those in need and for schools in our area who need help. More power to them.

Peace

gimmesometruth27

Jeanwah wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

people always say "anybody can get rich". but i do not think that this is true because in many cases gaining wealth means taking advantage of someone at some point, and some people have a problem with that.

I tend to agree with this and have seen it way first hand way too often. But I don't like to stereotype. I have seen some rich people be generous, but not as often.

i said in many cases, not in all cases.

look at goldman sachs and the letter that that man wrote yesterday as he resigned. he said that people were there to rip people off. they were getting rich off of the backs of those that they were supposed to be helping. is that unethical? to quote palin, "you betcha!!"

white collar crime is no better or more excusable than those crimes committed by the poor.