Since it was suggested that Dave was not a "musician", I thought I would repost something I put up a while back. A comparison of the drummers, apples-to-apples, on the same song. This is the best way to compare styles and abilities.
Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.
Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.
I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.
Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.
For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.
In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
the intent on this thread was not to talk shit about anyone in the band, past or present. I was just wondering if Dave ever commented publicly on the topic of the song. that's all.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Since it was suggested that Dave was not a "musician", I thought I would repost something I put up a while back. A comparison of the drummers, apples-to-apples, on the same song. This is the best way to compare styles and abilities.
Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.
Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.
I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.
Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.
For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.
In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
Thanks for this. I don't know shit about drumming and this is the first I am hearing of rudiments, but I have always loved Dave A.'s drumming the best. To me, the sound is so much better and really distinctive. I'm happy Matt's in the band because they probably wouldn't be together but he just sounds average in Pearl Jam, TO ME. His skills are so much better represented in Soundgarden.
I can definitely hear the difference side by side like you posted them.
and this isn't nostalgia talking, maybe he didn't fit in with the band personally, but listening to his drumming on vs and vitalogy, I have to say, I prefer it to even matt's, and I know saying that around here is tantamount to sacrilege, but whatever. I just really dig the guy's style.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Since it was suggested that Dave was not a "musician", I thought I would repost something I put up a while back. A comparison of the drummers, apples-to-apples, on the same song. This is the best way to compare styles and abilities.
Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.
Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.
I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.
Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.
For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.
In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
THIS is an awesome analysis and fits my view exactly. For those who haven't, open up a new browser tab and listen and read this. Spot on, man. I fall in the same category as many, who feel its not cool or "sacrilege" to say Matt is their least favorite drummer, but Dave A was to me the best fit. Yes it's part nostalgia, but to me the heavy hitting, the cymbal work, what i think are "rudiments", the punch and sharp crispness of it was perfect. When I think of Matt's sound, "muddy" as described above is EXACTLY what I think. Still an awesome drummer, but I think matt is more straight-forward rock, less unique. And yeah, why does he sound better in soundgarden?
Oh and Jack is completely different, but IMHO not far behind Dave. It was a new sound, but it was unique and only Jacks, I loved it. Listening to the 95-96 shows is pure drumming bliss with Jack.
OH, and this thread is about Dave A commenting on Gloried G. Whoops, this has gotten quite sidetracked!
There's an article from the late 90's in one of the guitar mags, which in an interview with Jeff Ament, he mentions that they couldn't understand Dave A in the studio. Apparently he was too technical and often commented on how the song should be in a certain timing, structure, etc etc. whilst the rest of the guys just wanted to "let it flow", so to speak.
the intent on this thread was not to talk shit about anyone in the band, past or present. I was just wondering if Dave ever commented publicly on the topic of the song. that's all.
Didn't you realize you cannot even bring up the name of any drummer from pearl jam without it derailing into a "who's better" scenario. But here is Dave's, along with the other's, commentary on the song from an article circa Vs. era.
It begins with Ed's take on its origins: 'I didn't actually write that song. I was at a band rehearsal and I just started writing down these things the guys were talking about. The band was having this conversation and I just took down the dialogue. One of the band members had just bought a gun. It was the drummer, actually. Ask him about it.'
And this is what Dave had to say: 'I told our manager that I just bought a coupla guns and he told Jeff, and at rehearsal Jeff kinda blurted it out. And Eddie went, 'Whaaaat, you bought a GUN?' And I said, 'In fact, I bought two', which ended up as the opening line of the song.
'I think it's fair to say Eddie was pretty outraged. But like I told him, where I come from in Texas people have a very different attitude towards guns than they do in California, where he's from. Same with Jeff. He's from Montana. And that's where you have a gun on the back of the pick-up with a bullet in it, ready to go. Like Jeff's dad says, 'The best way to be safe with a gun is to always keep it loaded.'
'In Texas, people have guns to defend their land. Hell, I've had guns in my stomach a buncha times. But in California, because there's so much violence with guns and there are all these gangs, it's a completely different trip. I giggle my ass off when we play it live.'
'That's because you're a country freak asshole,' said Stone.
That song is borderline nutso,' said Mike McCready.
'That song is borderline not working at all,' said Stone. 'It's very Eddie.'
There are many Pearl Jam songs that have not been played right since Dave left:
Rats (I saw them play this at Randall's ISland)
Dirty Frank
I've got a Feeling
They played Rats in Chicago '09 :?
And MSG 08 and 10 and Philly 09 and a couple of time on the Canadian/SA tours. It did go on hiatus for a while, but since 2006 it's been in a handful of shows each tour.
There are many Pearl Jam songs that have not been played right since Dave left:
Rats (I saw them play this at Randall's ISland)
Dirty Frank
I've got a Feeling
They played Rats in Chicago '09 :?
And MSG 08 and 10 and Philly 09 and a couple of time on the Canadian/SA tours. It did go on hiatus for a while, but since 2006 it's been in a handful of shows each tour.
The little tid bits of cymbal work he is constantly doing is awesome and amazing. Sets him far aside from any other drummer I've ever heard as far as style goes.
Since it was suggested that Dave was not a "musician", I thought I would repost something I put up a while back. A comparison of the drummers, apples-to-apples, on the same song. This is the best way to compare styles and abilities.
Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.
Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.
I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.
Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.
For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.
In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
Would love more of these comparisons! Great, what ever drummer you prefer.
The main problem with MattC is that, however competent he may be, he is sort of dull. Just gives a beat to the songs. Doesn't take any space. It's a passive instrument, the most "drum machine"-like drumming the band has had.
Dave A made you really take notice of the drums (and not only through being hard hitting). They became an instrument on their own. He took up space. He held his own and makes you think about the drums in an active way.
For example, the drum solos during Even flow on the 2006 tour are boring (at least I think so). If Dave A would have tried that - I bet you it would be as interesting as a greag guitar solo.
I would enjoy listeing to the drumtracks on their own to VS and Vitalogy. To Backspacer... Not so much.
But I know shit about playing instruments and such. This is just what I hear with my tonedeaf ears
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page
Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.
Here's Jack playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ
Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.
Here's Matt playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw
I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.
Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.
For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.
In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
You probably have already read this but it was news to me; Abbruzzese getting slapped for Jeremy.
http://grungebook.tumblr.com/post/18957 ... -over-jere
You're wrong. Watch and listen to Mike's scoff when Stone thanks Dave Abbruzzese at the 54 second mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHEYs0CMe4U
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I was there, watched the dvd several times, and never noticed that. that's kick ass. good for dave.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Thanks for this. I don't know shit about drumming and this is the first I am hearing of rudiments, but I have always loved Dave A.'s drumming the best. To me, the sound is so much better and really distinctive. I'm happy Matt's in the band because they probably wouldn't be together but he just sounds average in Pearl Jam, TO ME. His skills are so much better represented in Soundgarden.
I can definitely hear the difference side by side like you posted them.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
THIS is an awesome analysis and fits my view exactly. For those who haven't, open up a new browser tab and listen and read this. Spot on, man. I fall in the same category as many, who feel its not cool or "sacrilege" to say Matt is their least favorite drummer, but Dave A was to me the best fit. Yes it's part nostalgia, but to me the heavy hitting, the cymbal work, what i think are "rudiments", the punch and sharp crispness of it was perfect. When I think of Matt's sound, "muddy" as described above is EXACTLY what I think. Still an awesome drummer, but I think matt is more straight-forward rock, less unique. And yeah, why does he sound better in soundgarden?
Oh and Jack is completely different, but IMHO not far behind Dave. It was a new sound, but it was unique and only Jacks, I loved it. Listening to the 95-96 shows is pure drumming bliss with Jack.
OH, and this thread is about Dave A commenting on Gloried G. Whoops, this has gotten quite sidetracked!
PJ Manchester MEN - 21.06.12
EV Manchester O2 Apollo - 28.07.12
PJ Leeds Arena - 08.07.14
Didn't you realize you cannot even bring up the name of any drummer from pearl jam without it derailing into a "who's better" scenario. But here is Dave's, along with the other's, commentary on the song from an article circa Vs. era.
It begins with Ed's take on its origins: 'I didn't actually write that song. I was at a band rehearsal and I just started writing down these things the guys were talking about. The band was having this conversation and I just took down the dialogue. One of the band members had just bought a gun. It was the drummer, actually. Ask him about it.'
And this is what Dave had to say: 'I told our manager that I just bought a coupla guns and he told Jeff, and at rehearsal Jeff kinda blurted it out. And Eddie went, 'Whaaaat, you bought a GUN?' And I said, 'In fact, I bought two', which ended up as the opening line of the song.
'I think it's fair to say Eddie was pretty outraged. But like I told him, where I come from in Texas people have a very different attitude towards guns than they do in California, where he's from. Same with Jeff. He's from Montana. And that's where you have a gun on the back of the pick-up with a bullet in it, ready to go. Like Jeff's dad says, 'The best way to be safe with a gun is to always keep it loaded.'
'In Texas, people have guns to defend their land. Hell, I've had guns in my stomach a buncha times. But in California, because there's so much violence with guns and there are all these gangs, it's a completely different trip. I giggle my ass off when we play it live.'
'That's because you're a country freak asshole,' said Stone.
That song is borderline nutso,' said Mike McCready.
'That song is borderline not working at all,' said Stone. 'It's very Eddie.'
Glad I'm not the only one who heard it this way...
2006: East Rutherford 1, East Rutherford 2
2008: Madison Square Garden 2
2010: Newark
2013: Brooklyn 2 GA
They played Rats in Chicago '09 :?
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh Mike....
And MSG 08 and 10 and Philly 09 and a couple of time on the Canadian/SA tours. It did go on hiatus for a while, but since 2006 it's been in a handful of shows each tour.
http://www.pearljam.com/song/rats
EDIT: I missed the subjective modifier. Sweet!
The little tid bits of cymbal work he is constantly doing is awesome and amazing. Sets him far aside from any other drummer I've ever heard as far as style goes.
Would love more of these comparisons! Great, what ever drummer you prefer.
The main problem with MattC is that, however competent he may be, he is sort of dull. Just gives a beat to the songs. Doesn't take any space. It's a passive instrument, the most "drum machine"-like drumming the band has had.
Dave A made you really take notice of the drums (and not only through being hard hitting). They became an instrument on their own. He took up space. He held his own and makes you think about the drums in an active way.
For example, the drum solos during Even flow on the 2006 tour are boring (at least I think so). If Dave A would have tried that - I bet you it would be as interesting as a greag guitar solo.
I would enjoy listeing to the drumtracks on their own to VS and Vitalogy. To Backspacer... Not so much.
But I know shit about playing instruments and such. This is just what I hear with my tonedeaf ears