NAME-CALLING
Vitalogy Man
Posts: 174
I'll start.... Yesterday I referred to a public figure, Ms. Fluke, in an offensive way. I was appropriately reprimanded by our lovely Mod, Kat- (thank you Kat, for helping me to be a better person.)
I would like to publicly apologize to the following people:
Kat
Ms. Fluke
anyone who was offended by my rude comment.
women in general
I hereby pledge to never name-call again. If I do, you can call me on it.
I am kind of new here, but I thought that "name-calling" was describing inappropriate words between members on the board, not necessarily a member calling a public figure a "name". The examples of this are probably in the millions here, as politicians are referred to here by some of the worst names you could call a person... In almost every thread.
So, why all the fuss now? Maybe we can get some clarity here, and maybe the Mods wouldn't mind helping us here with some clarification, in the interest of making their lives easier by reducing the amount of discord here, and making the Train a more enjoyable place to discuss ideas...
Bush. Cheney. Santorum. Gingrich. Boehner. And yes, Obama too. All of these men are seemingly fair game here. I don't need to post the millions of examples of atrocious things that have been said about these men....
Maybe it was that I called a woman an offensive term?
Palin. Bachmann. Malkin. Coulter. Clinton. The things that have been said about these women on the Train are also equally atrocious, yet receive very little attention here...
So what are the rules, here? Why are certain groups of people consistently name-called, and others defended and protected?
Which public figures are we allowed to name-call, and which ones are we not?
Thanks everyone, I look forward to reasonable debate with you guys in the future- and I will strive to abide by all the posting guidelines, whatever they are...
Peace.
I would like to publicly apologize to the following people:
Kat
Ms. Fluke
anyone who was offended by my rude comment.
women in general
I hereby pledge to never name-call again. If I do, you can call me on it.
I am kind of new here, but I thought that "name-calling" was describing inappropriate words between members on the board, not necessarily a member calling a public figure a "name". The examples of this are probably in the millions here, as politicians are referred to here by some of the worst names you could call a person... In almost every thread.
So, why all the fuss now? Maybe we can get some clarity here, and maybe the Mods wouldn't mind helping us here with some clarification, in the interest of making their lives easier by reducing the amount of discord here, and making the Train a more enjoyable place to discuss ideas...
Bush. Cheney. Santorum. Gingrich. Boehner. And yes, Obama too. All of these men are seemingly fair game here. I don't need to post the millions of examples of atrocious things that have been said about these men....
Maybe it was that I called a woman an offensive term?
Palin. Bachmann. Malkin. Coulter. Clinton. The things that have been said about these women on the Train are also equally atrocious, yet receive very little attention here...
So what are the rules, here? Why are certain groups of people consistently name-called, and others defended and protected?
Which public figures are we allowed to name-call, and which ones are we not?
Thanks everyone, I look forward to reasonable debate with you guys in the future- and I will strive to abide by all the posting guidelines, whatever they are...
Peace.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.
Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.
If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?
What's acceptable?
Seriously , though... what is the deal here?
basically i like to use the mom rule. If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, you may want to re-think how you are putting it here.
I certainly am as guilty as anyone else, there are definitely times I will joke or seriously call someone a name...but it is usually a public figure(s), and it is usually something I would say in front of my Mom.
But there are definitely examples of threads being closed and I assume people reprimanded for name calling of any kind. It is just what the mods can see...they cannot be everywhere at once( I don't think, Kat or Sea, correct me if you are actually are omnipresent and I already know you are omnipotent)
the old saying is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar....people tune you out when you take a stance like you did yesterday.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Because 1 is true and the other is not necessarily true.
Actually, both those words are subjective, and if I think that she is not a "mooch", but a "brave young woman", then I would be offended by your use of the term, "mooch." If I was a mod, and disagreead, you might get a warning or ban, right? So, what is acceptable, and what is not?
So, is the standard, "Would I say this in front of my Mom"? We all have different moms... so... what one might say in front of their mom, one might not say in front of other's moms.
Again. subjective. Where are the hard rules? What is acceptable and what is not?
You've offended me by calling her a "brave" young woman. "brave" woman are risking their lives everyday in Iraq, etc. She went to a room to talk.
See, this can go on and on and on.
Personally, I think it was deleted because the mod was more personally offended by that name then by most of the others here. And, they don't have the time to look at everything and manage it. So, they do so when the name calling causes a thread to become combative. Just my opinion.
Why do you want hard rules? It's not black and white. It's subjective. And they should moderate based on principles not rules.
That's really good advice, but now i cant stop picturing my mom standing over my shoulder as i type.
:shock:
I wasn't setting a standard for the entire board. I was saying what generally guides my actions. I realize we all have different mothers. but some of the posts in question, is that something you would yell out in front of your mom? if yes than the mom rule doesn't really apply to you...I think you know the line, you may not accept it, but the line is just simple human decency...calling a public figure an asshole is acceptable....you calling me an asshole becomes less so...make sense?
public figures are fair game for criticism within reason....this woman became a public figure because of derogatory criticism. Rush could have called her promiscuous...would that have caused the storm it did? i doubt it...there are connotations with every word you choose, and in a medium where tone is hard to detect, you just need to mind your p's and q's...that isn't to say you cannot say how you feel, you just need to measure the words you use to describe your feelings.
again, you know the line, it is generally in the same area of gray for all of us, sometimes we cross it, but if we generally don't we will be just fine...but if you keep it in the red, as I think most of your posts on the subject did, you will probably get a warning...
I am not really offended by much, but calling a woman who takes birth control a slut is kind of a tough leap and could really offend a lot of women on the board who may take birth control...judge their lifestyle all you want, but there are ways to do that without being controversial or in your face about it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
funny.
Just use common sense and like mike said, simple human decency.
It's not THAT difficult, is it?
But let's just say that long-winded, angry diatribes that call people names like "slut" and "faggot" and such... Not really helping anyone's cause. :roll:
I love this argument- if you are not a lawyer, you could be!
And I see what you are saying, but that's exactly the point I am driving at. How can calling Palin a "s--t" be acceptable, but calling Ms. Fluke that word, is "bannable name-calling"?
Shouldn't the "principles" apply to ALL women- and men, for that matter?
I think it has something to do with the golden rule.
Godfather.
Implying that I called you any of those names is wrong, and you know that Prince. Anyone of us can access another members posts in about 5 seconds... you asked me to understand your feelings/ "anger", and That's where I went to try to do that. You have my conclusions. But those words were never included.
What about the choice names you have reserved for conservative politicians, and Christians? Are those words "helping anyone's cause"?
Where do we draw the line? Some politicians/ groups can be called names, and others, we need to exercise "decent philosophies"?
Can we get a little more clarity here?
Gotta admit, I found this to be pretty funny considering I'm pretty sure I've said the same thing to you.
and it feels good
think about what would hurt you or someone close to you then don't use those words
or those tactics ... really think about whether you would talk like that in person :?
if certain people are disrespectful and arouse you to be combative
put them on foe ... this a wonderful reminder to not engage
then you don't have to play their immature games
Ok, let's try to break it down.
I don't think I've personally called Anne Colter a "slut" or a "prostitute," although I've probably called her some pretty choice names. Those posts are called "rants" and are seldom to be taken very seriously. I think it's also very clear that Anne colter says things with the intent of firing up a slew of name-calling becuase she can never win an argument using reason of facts. It's wht she called people "harpie" and "faggot" and then laughed at it. Therefore you can't talk seriously about Anne colter.
Ms. Fluke was talking about birth control that many women need for many reasons, which would ultimately lower the cost of health care for all. Instead of debating this fact, rush Limbaugh intentionally drove the bus off the road and instead said she was having "so much sex..." and called her a slut and a prostitute and suggested that if he had to pay for her "to have sex," she should post video of it on the Internet. Ignoring that she was talking about private health insurance, not rush Limbaugh's tax dollars. he did this so he could divert attention away from what she as saying... She was right and he was wrong so be instead tried to confuse people by suggesting that she was having "so much sex" and that people's taxes paid for it. Both totally absurd.
This does nothing to further any real debate, it just explodes into a contest of who can say the most shocking thing. I won't get too much into the pm discourse you and I had other than that I tried to calmly and politely explain my positions on something (I can't remember what) and you responded with three paragraphs of hysterical name-calling and lines from "Mommy Dearest," which I thought was a bit bizarrely out of place. That did nothing but make me think your watch bad gay camp movies from the 80s and have a bit too much anger.
And when I tell you that you're too angry... That might be a problem, it's like whitney Houston telling you that you have a drug problem. (too soon?)
Sit up you stupid whore.
Sorry.
Got carried away.
Now THAT is fuckin funny! Props for the humor. As for that Pm long ago, I hereby, sincerely apologize for offending- that was kind of a "rant" in the definition you described.
Anyways, Im yurning over a new leaf- and just trying to get some clarity on who, in the public forum, can or cannot be name-called?
Let's go with no one. No name-calling of anyone and I like that Mom rule thing too. Point me to where S. Palin was called that name and we'll deal with it. It's just not ok. Name-calling is the one thing that pisses people off the most and causes or escalates a debate to an argument or a fight and effectively ends a discussion. Just read your post before you hit Submit to see if you've called someone a name to denigrate or lessen their POV to try and raise the importance of your own POV. It's not difficult really...just bring your best manners and most sociable face to your debate. Have a great time and don't forget to put on some great music while you type too.
Alright! Thanks Kat.
NO Name-calling. I like it. Not digging for past discretions, just looking towards the future.
Thanks.
To be fair, I probably deserved about half of it. So... sorry.
It takes an awful lot to offend me... I've been called a LOT of names in my life and they just kinda roll off.
But apology accepted.
Here is a piece of advice that may be helpful...
Take off the Red State or Blue State glasses and make fair, unbiased assessments of political leaders and pundits. The pundits are in the business of making you take sides... liberal vs. conservative... Democrat vs. Republican. We are ALL Americans, first... right?
I did notice that the only ones you listed in your initial post were conservative or Republicans (other than President Obama and Secretary Clinton). This would lead others to read it as people like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Maxine Waters, Michael Moore, Keith Obermann or Rosie O'Donnell never come under fire from the right side of the aisle. It this a true fact? I kind of don't think so.
I does not mean they don't deserve to draw fire, but, let's be fair here... There is a lot of responsibility and accountability on both sides to spread around here.
...
So, if you identify yourself as an American... you should be able to make unbiased calls on what is best for ALL Americans.
If you identify yourself as a Conservative/Liberal Republican/Democrat first... then, carry on with the petty political partisanship that the politicians want you to play and continue to buy into what the political pundits tell you in order to sell you their books and boost their ratings.
Hail, Hail!!!
So by NOT mentioning EVERY Democrat in the world, I am "leading others to believe that the left never comes under fire from the right"? :roll:
That is some interesting logic there.... can't think of a way to respond to it, other than pointing out that by that reasoning, nobody, in the history of the World, could ever conclude anything, without first mentioning everything...
Pretty sure that is impossible... but you never know.
You are missing the point.
Don't see things as Red of Blue because America is more of a Purple.
Politicians want us to see only Red or Blue for their gain, not ours.
Political pundits want us Red or Blue because it makes for more entertaining television... which boosts rating and sells books.
You have a choice... either follow along with what politics want you to do... or create your own path and tell those asshole to go to hell and quit listening to their opinions and decide for youself.
It's up to you to decide.
Hail, Hail!!!
Is it offensive to call someone "Dr. Phil" when they start dishing out touchy feely advice like this?