NAME-CALLING

Vitalogy Man

I'll start.... Yesterday I referred to a public figure, Ms. Fluke, in an offensive way. I was appropriately reprimanded by our lovely Mod, Kat- (thank you Kat, for helping me to be a better person.)

I would like to publicly apologize to the following people:
Kat
Ms. Fluke
anyone who was offended by my rude comment.
women in general

I hereby pledge to never name-call again. If I do, you can call me on it.


I am kind of new here, but I thought that "name-calling" was describing inappropriate words between members on the board, not necessarily a member calling a public figure a "name". The examples of this are probably in the millions here, as politicians are referred to here by some of the worst names you could call a person... In almost every thread.

So, why all the fuss now? Maybe we can get some clarity here, and maybe the Mods wouldn't mind helping us here with some clarification, in the interest of making their lives easier by reducing the amount of discord here, and making the Train a more enjoyable place to discuss ideas...

Bush. Cheney. Santorum. Gingrich. Boehner. And yes, Obama too. All of these men are seemingly fair game here. I don't need to post the millions of examples of atrocious things that have been said about these men....

Maybe it was that I called a woman an offensive term?

Palin. Bachmann. Malkin. Coulter. Clinton. The things that have been said about these women on the Train are also equally atrocious, yet receive very little attention here...

So what are the rules, here? Why are certain groups of people consistently name-called, and others defended and protected?

Which public figures are we allowed to name-call, and which ones are we not?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to reasonable debate with you guys in the future- and I will strive to abide by all the posting guidelines, whatever they are...

Peace.

cincybearcat

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Vitalogy Man

cincybearcat wrote:

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.

If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?

What's acceptable?

BinauralJam

Don't worry about it too much VM, once you post a few hundred times and manage to offend everyone, just open a new account with a new name and start all over again like you don't know any better, seems the thing to do now a days.

Vitalogy Man

BinauralJam wrote:

Don't worry about it too much VM, once you post a few hundred times and manage to offend everyone, just open a new account with a new name and start all over again like you don't know any better, seems the thing to do now a days.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but I doubt that would work!

Seriously , though... what is the deal here?

mikepegg44

Vitalogy Man wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.

If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?

What's acceptable?

basically i like to use the mom rule. If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, you may want to re-think how you are putting it here.
I certainly am as guilty as anyone else, there are definitely times I will joke or seriously call someone a name...but it is usually a public figure(s), and it is usually something I would say in front of my Mom.
But there are definitely examples of threads being closed and I assume people reprimanded for name calling of any kind. It is just what the mods can see...they cannot be everywhere at once( I don't think, Kat or Sea, correct me if you are actually are omnipresent and I already know you are omnipotent)
the old saying is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar....people tune you out when you take a stance like you did yesterday.

cincybearcat

Vitalogy Man wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.

If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?

What's acceptable?

Because 1 is true and the other is not necessarily true.

Vitalogy Man

cincybearcat wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.

If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?

What's acceptable?

Because 1 is true and the other is not necessarily true.

Actually, both those words are subjective, and if I think that she is not a "mooch", but a "brave young woman", then I would be offended by your use of the term, "mooch." If I was a mod, and disagreead, you might get a warning or ban, right? So, what is acceptable, and what is not?

Vitalogy Man

mikepegg44 wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Well, for starters, the shoe has to fit at least a little bit no?

Fluke isn't a slut because of he stance, she is merely a mooch.

Okaaay... That is sort of what Im trying to get away from- but I see your point.

If calling her "that word" is derogatory, then is how is "mooch" acceptable?

What's acceptable?

basically i like to use the mom rule. If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, you may want to re-think how you are putting it here.
I certainly am as guilty as anyone else, there are definitely times I will joke or seriously call someone a name...but it is usually a public figure(s), and it is usually something I would say in front of my Mom.
But there are definitely examples of threads being closed and I assume people reprimanded for name calling of any kind. It is just what the mods can see...they cannot be everywhere at once( I don't think, Kat or Sea, correct me if you are actually are omnipresent and I already know you are omnipotent)
the old saying is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar....people tune you out when you take a stance like you did yesterday.

So, is the standard, "Would I say this in front of my Mom"? We all have different moms... so... what one might say in front of their mom, one might not say in front of other's moms.

Again. subjective. Where are the hard rules? What is acceptable and what is not?

cincybearcat

Vitalogy Man wrote:

Actually, both those words are subjective, and if I think that she is not a "mooch", but a "brave young woman", then I would be offended by your use of the term, "mooch." If I was a mod, and disagreead, you might get a warning or ban, right? So, what is acceptable, and what is not?

You've offended me by calling her a "brave" young woman. "brave" woman are risking their lives everyday in Iraq, etc. She went to a room to talk.


See, this can go on and on and on.

Personally, I think it was deleted because the mod was more personally offended by that name then by most of the others here. And, they don't have the time to look at everything and manage it. So, they do so when the name calling causes a thread to become combative. Just my opinion.

cincybearcat

Vitalogy Man wrote:

Again. subjective. Where are the hard rules? What is acceptable and what is not?

Why do you want hard rules? It's not black and white. It's subjective. And they should moderate based on principles not rules.

BinauralJam

The Mom Rule

That's really good advice, but now i cant stop picturing my mom standing over my shoulder as i type.

:shock:

mikepegg44

Vitalogy Man wrote:

So, is the standard, "Would I say this in front of my Mom"? We all have different moms... so... what one might say in front of their mom, one might not say in front of other's moms.

Again. subjective. Where are the hard rules? What is acceptable and what is not?

I wasn't setting a standard for the entire board. I was saying what generally guides my actions. I realize we all have different mothers. but some of the posts in question, is that something you would yell out in front of your mom? if yes than the mom rule doesn't really apply to you...I think you know the line, you may not accept it, but the line is just simple human decency...calling a public figure an asshole is acceptable....you calling me an asshole becomes less so...make sense?

public figures are fair game for criticism within reason....this woman became a public figure because of derogatory criticism. Rush could have called her promiscuous...would that have caused the storm it did? i doubt it...there are connotations with every word you choose, and in a medium where tone is hard to detect, you just need to mind your p's and q's...that isn't to say you cannot say how you feel, you just need to measure the words you use to describe your feelings.

again, you know the line, it is generally in the same area of gray for all of us, sometimes we cross it, but if we generally don't we will be just fine...but if you keep it in the red, as I think most of your posts on the subject did, you will probably get a warning...
I am not really offended by much, but calling a woman who takes birth control a slut is kind of a tough leap and could really offend a lot of women on the board who may take birth control...judge their lifestyle all you want, but there are ways to do that without being controversial or in your face about it.

Drowned Out

Vitalogy Man wrote:

I am kind of new here.

funny.

hedonist

cincybearcat wrote:

It's not black and white. It's subjective. And they should moderate based on principles not rules.

Agreed.

Just use common sense and like mike said, simple human decency.

It's not THAT difficult, is it?

Prince Of Dorkness

Now... I wouldn't ever post say... a Diatribe sent to me in a private message, "Vitalogy Man," one that references things I posted months before you "newly joined :? " this forum.

But let's just say that long-winded, angry diatribes that call people names like "slut" and "faggot" and such... Not really helping anyone's cause. :roll:

Vitalogy Man

cincybearcat wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

Actually, both those words are subjective, and if I think that she is not a "mooch", but a "brave young woman", then I would be offended by your use of the term, "mooch." If I was a mod, and disagreead, you might get a warning or ban, right? So, what is acceptable, and what is not?

You've offended me by calling her a "brave" young woman. "brave" woman are risking their lives everyday in Iraq, etc. She went to a room to talk.
See, this can go on and on and on.

Personally, I think it was deleted because the mod was more personally offended by that name then by most of the others here. And, they don't have the time to look at everything and manage it. So, they do so when the name calling causes a thread to become combative. Just my opinion.

I love this argument- if you are not a lawyer, you could be!

And I see what you are saying, but that's exactly the point I am driving at. How can calling Palin a "s--t" be acceptable, but calling Ms. Fluke that word, is "bannable name-calling"?

Shouldn't the "principles" apply to ALL women- and men, for that matter?

Godfather.

Vitalogy Man wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

Actually, both those words are subjective, and if I think that she is not a "mooch", but a "brave young woman", then I would be offended by your use of the term, "mooch." If I was a mod, and disagreead, you might get a warning or ban, right? So, what is acceptable, and what is not?

You've offended me by calling her a "brave" young woman. "brave" woman are risking their lives everyday in Iraq, etc. She went to a room to talk.
See, this can go on and on and on.

Personally, I think it was deleted because the mod was more personally offended by that name then by most of the others here. And, they don't have the time to look at everything and manage it. So, they do so when the name calling causes a thread to become combative. Just my opinion.

I love this argument- if you are not a lawyer, you could be!

And I see what you are saying, but that's exactly the point I am driving at. How can calling Palin a "s--t" be acceptable, but calling Ms. Fluke that word, is "bannable name-calling"?

Shouldn't the "principles" apply to ALL women- and men, for that matter?

I think it has something to do with the golden rule.



Godfather.

Vitalogy Man

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Now... I wouldn't ever post say... a Diatribe sent to me in a private message, "Vitalogy Man," one that references things I posted months before you "newly joined :? " this forum.

But let's just say that long-winded, angry diatribes that call people names like "slut" and "faggot" and such... Not really helping anyone's cause. :roll:

Implying that I called you any of those names is wrong, and you know that Prince. Anyone of us can access another members posts in about 5 seconds... you asked me to understand your feelings/ "anger", and That's where I went to try to do that. You have my conclusions. But those words were never included.

What about the choice names you have reserved for conservative politicians, and Christians? Are those words "helping anyone's cause"?

Where do we draw the line? Some politicians/ groups can be called names, and others, we need to exercise "decent philosophies"?

Can we get a little more clarity here?

cincybearcat

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

angry diatribes that call people names ... Not really helping anyone's cause. :roll:

Gotta admit, I found this to be pretty funny considering I'm pretty sure I've said the same thing to you.

pandora

It's really very easy to be kind ...
and it feels good

think about what would hurt you or someone close to you then don't use those words
or those tactics ... really think about whether you would talk like that in person :?

if certain people are disrespectful and arouse you to be combative
put them on foe ... this a wonderful reminder to not engage

then you don't have to play their immature games