Sennheiser e906 and/or e609 (amp mic'ing)

exhausted

I'm looking for new mics for recording my amps... like everyone else in the world, I suppose, I struggle to get decent distorted guitar tones off the mics.

I have an Apex 435 condenser which I find gets overloaded too easily despite my relatively low volumes (works well for clean tones though) and an SM57 which I find too bright pretty much anywhere I place it. It sounds harsh and moving it off axis just makes it muffled.

So I was looking at these two sennheiser mics. The e906 was recommended based on the switchable presence filter but costs $100 more than the e609 which doesn't have the filter. I've also read that the e609 is very similar to the SM57 which turns me off of it.

The primary cabinet I'm micing is a litle Epiphone 1x12 with a V30 in it. I think it sounds great in the room but I can't get it coming through the mics. Of course, being a 1x12" I can't really blend mics all that easily either.

Any feedback on these two? Or other suggestions with costs in the reasonable home/hobby recording range?

DewieCox

I've never done a direct a/b comparison, but I have the 906 and the sm57 and generally gravitate towards the Sennheiser. I keep the switch in the middle(neutral)position and I feel like it does a really good job of duplicating what comes out of my speakers.

All Those Yesterdays

Exhausted we lean towards E609s when we record. But as of recently we have been using Peavey PVM 45's and 45IR's (you can get those cheap on ebay, shoot we got three brand new ones on clearance from a guitar center for $99 total).

If you facebook me your email I can send you some songs that exclusively use E609's. I will also talk to the guy I record with and see if he has clips of just distorted guitars using both mics....

E609s are a touch darker then PVM 45's and 45ir's.

We hardly ever use SM57's. And when I say hardly ever I mean never.... we A/B them again the others and they just color everything to much...

mccreadyisgod

I know that the general consensus is that the black e609 is far superior to the current silver e609; the e906 is supposed to have a setting that approximates the black, one for the silver, and one additional setting.

I have always wanted to pick up a pair of black e609's, or at least a pair of e906's. Of course, they're all just trying to emulate the vintage MD 409, a great mic.

I haven't used them enough to have an opinion, and the only environment I've used them at all is mixing live. I can tell you that there are a ton of great shootouts, both on YouTube and elsewhere.

From the scenario you are describing, you might want to think about going ribbon. The figure-8 pattern gets you a bit of room for ambiance, and they tend to give a smoother distortion recording. You can play around with pulling your 57 back from the speaker a bit (as much as 12-18" away from the grill) to reduce the proximity effect and bring a bit of room into the sound.

One more thing: I personally love the sound of an Audix D2 on guitar cabs. It's nothing other than my own personal preference, but I love it.

All Those Yesterdays

mccreadyisgod wrote:

I know that the general consensus is that the black e609 is far superior to the current silver e609; the e906 is supposed to have a setting that approximates the black, one for the silver, and one additional setting.

I have always wanted to pick up a pair of black e609's, or at least a pair of e906's. Of course, they're all just trying to emulate the vintage MD 409, a great mic.

I haven't used them enough to have an opinion, and the only environment I've used them at all is mixing live. I can tell you that there are a ton of great shootouts, both on YouTube and elsewhere.

From the scenario you are describing, you might want to think about going ribbon. The figure-8 pattern gets you a bit of room for ambiance, and they tend to give a smoother distortion recording. You can play around with pulling your 57 back from the speaker a bit (as much as 12-18" away from the grill) to reduce the proximity effect and bring a bit of room into the sound.

One more thing: I personally love the sound of an Audix D2 on guitar cabs. It's nothing other than my own personal preference, but I love it.

Correct, we have been using the Black E 609's. We have two at our disposal.

The D2 must be something similar to what we've been doing lately. A few recordings have been using a Shure mic that we use on the toms. I can't think of the model of mic at the moment, but can check the sheets this week.

We tend to do the 609 or the PVM 45 a inch or so off the grille. And typically a condenser about 8 ft away and about 4 ft high on a small wattage combo cranked. Obviously that gets pulled back further on bigger wattage amps. The room is a wood floor 10x12 room.

I tend to like the amps to loud to get any room ambiance from a single mic 12 to 18 inches from the speaker.

But in the end it all depends on what the song needs...

Shoot we have put a mic in a stairway three rooms away before, just for reverb.

All Those Yesterdays

On a side note, it's good to keep a eye on Guitar Centers website, and don't be afraid to call these places and low ball them. Especially with mics etc.... The guy i record with has gotten a lot of great deals doing this. At times I think they just want to clear it off the shelves.

And I've been told he just got his hands on a prototype ribbon mic from some guy. I don't know the companies name yet, and haven't heard it, but I'm intrigued to check it out and put it to use. I'll keep you folks posted.

exhausted

Ribbon was another option the guy at the shop mentioned but there are basically only cheap and way $$$$ options available. It goes $99, $150 (for the Apex ones) to mega $$$.

I, sadly, have a dead room anyway since it's my basement and the walls are insulated but not drywalled. Like really dead. There is no air at all. So I don't think I'd gain any advantage with a ribbon.

mccreadyisgod

Well, the gold standard for ribbons is the Royer 121, $1300 US. Definitely not for the hobbyist. I have been tempted to want to try the MXL and Nady ribbon offerings, but not enough to actually get one and work it through it's paces. I have heard some really good things about the Cascade family of mics, and the Cascade Fathead in particular. Definitely in the price range you're talking. You would need a good, clean preamp, though; ribbons need a lot of gain.

The reason I mentioned a ribbon mic in the first place is that they tend to be mellower in the upper-mids, and works really well on overdrive/distortion tones. It sounds like you are happy with the condenser mic route, except your mic tends to get overloaded; maybe look at upgrading your condenser to one that can take some higher SPLs? Maybe a model with an onboard pad?

Beyond that, I'd just search the web for some shootouts of mics you like, where you can get back-to-back comparison via YouTube or mp3.

All Those Yesterdays

mccreadyisgod wrote:

Well, the gold standard for ribbons is the Royer 121, $1300 US. Definitely not for the hobbyist. I have been tempted to want to try the MXL and Nady ribbon offerings, but not enough to actually get one and work it through it's paces. I have heard some really good things about the Cascade family of mics, and the Cascade Fathead in particular. Definitely in the price range you're talking. You would need a good, clean preamp, though; ribbons need a lot of gain.

The reason I mentioned a ribbon mic in the first place is that they tend to be mellower in the upper-mids, and works really well on overdrive/distortion tones. It sounds like you are happy with the condenser mic route, except your mic tends to get overloaded; maybe look at upgrading your condenser to one that can take some higher SPLs? Maybe a model with an onboard pad?

Beyond that, I'd just search the web for some shootouts of mics you like, where you can get back-to-back comparison via YouTube or mp3.

I could be wrong but Cascade is ringing a bell. I'll try to remember thursday

All Those Yesterdays

mccreadyisgod wrote:

Well, the gold standard for ribbons is the Royer 121, $1300 US. Definitely not for the hobbyist. I have been tempted to want to try the MXL and Nady ribbon offerings, but not enough to actually get one and work it through it's paces. I have heard some really good things about the Cascade family of mics, and the Cascade Fathead in particular. Definitely in the price range you're talking. You would need a good, clean preamp, though; ribbons need a lot of gain.

The reason I mentioned a ribbon mic in the first place is that they tend to be mellower in the upper-mids, and works really well on overdrive/distortion tones. It sounds like you are happy with the condenser mic route, except your mic tends to get overloaded; maybe look at upgrading your condenser to one that can take some higher SPLs? Maybe a model with an onboard pad?

Beyond that, I'd just search the web for some shootouts of mics you like, where you can get back-to-back comparison via YouTube or mp3.

Side note the new Ribbon mic the guy i record with bought is not a Cascade Fathead, although he did look into them. His is a prototype of the Le Wilson Ribbon model.

exhausted

I ended up with an e906 and it seems to be working out well. I've done a bit of recording with it and I like it. I did some heavier gain things and liked the sound I was getting.

I actually ended up buying a whole new DAW so I'm busy learning Logic Pro and importing all my old recordings which then need to be remixed etc. I'm really liking Logic so far. I still hate my singing though. :oops: I really need to stick to instrumentals.

mccreadyisgod

Based on what I know, I'd rather have an original black e609, but I'd rather have a e906 than a silver e609. What buttons you using on the 906?

exhausted

So far either the flat or high roll-off depending on my ears at the time. Mostly the flat setting with the mic about 2" away from the grill and on-axis.

All Those Yesterdays

exhausted wrote:

So far either the flat or high roll-off depending on my ears at the time. Mostly the flat setting with the mic about 2" away from the grill and on-axis.

Good deal, heard a recording on FB you did, sounded fantastic. Your voice is great, deal with it!

exhausted

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

Good deal, heard a recording on FB you did, sounded fantastic. Your voice is great, deal with it!

I'm still not convinced. :oops:

The U2 cover was done with the 435 and the 906. I'm still working on that mix.

The Bevis Frond thing was done a long time ago so I don't even remember if that's a POD or the amps.

exhausted

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8106433/October%20Stomp.mp3

So, I'm fairly happy with the electric tones on this. Les Paul and 335 through my Marshall Class 5 into an Epi Valve Jr. 1x12 with a V30 picked up by the e906.