Almost by definition, you were mooching off the system, as I'm guessing you weren't paying income tax, that is you were using something you didn't pay for.
I think we need a more clear definition of "mooching off the system". Is it necessarily mooching if someone isn't paying income taxes at the moment? What about the income - and other - taxes they pay at other points in their lives? And what about their other contributions to society? (E.g. I would argue that teachers contribute financially to our society by providing a valuable service for such little pay.)
For four years while I was in graduate school and then teaching part time, I wasn't able to afford health insurance. It wasn't offered to me--even when teaching at a university--and while still a student, I simply couldn't afford it, even though I was working at a restaurant and at a hardware store. The best quote I was offered was $200 a month.
When something serious came up, I would go to a free clinic. So, I just wanted to extend my thanks to some of you who may have given me the opportunity to still go see a doctor when I was concerned about something, and for the opportunity to go to the emergency room should a reason rear its ugly head.
So, I am interested in what you all think about my past situation. Should I be required to enter the free market via an insurance exchange? Should my employers have provided insurance? Was I mooching off the system?
Why were you not covered by your parents insurance when you were a student?
Every question you've asked in this thread is condescending.
Almost by definition, you were mooching off the system, as I'm guessing you weren't paying income tax, that is you were using something you didn't pay for.
I think we need a more clear definition of "mooching off the system". Is it necessarily mooching if someone isn't paying income taxes at the moment? What about the income - and other - taxes they pay at other points in their lives? And what about their other contributions to society? (E.g. I would argue that teachers contribute financially to our society by providing a valuable service for such little pay.)
Nobody gives two shits about teachers anymore. My friends and family members have really soured on the profession for many reasons: the kids, the parents, the pay, the negative stigma that a certain group in this country has thrust upon them. A lot of people feel it is not worth it to go into teaching.
My friends on Wall St who admittedly contribute nothing to society and who are millionaires in their early 30s, they get away with doing nothing and making a teacher's salary (or nurse; or fireman) in a month....or sometimes a week.
Almost by definition, you were mooching off the system, as I'm guessing you weren't paying income tax, that is you were using something you didn't pay for.
I think we need a more clear definition of "mooching off the system". Is it necessarily mooching if someone isn't paying income taxes at the moment? What about the income - and other - taxes they pay at other points in their lives? And what about their other contributions to society? (E.g. I would argue that teachers contribute financially to our society by providing a valuable service for such little pay.)
Nobody gives two shits about teachers anymore. My friends and family members have really soured on the profession for many reasons: the kids, the parents, the pay, the negative stigma that a certain group in this country has thrust upon them. A lot of people feel it is not worth it to go into teaching.
My friends on Wall St who admittedly contribute nothing to society and who are millionaires in their early 30s, they get away with doing nothing and making a teacher's salary (or nurse; or fireman) in a month....or sometimes a week.
I wholeheartedly agree. I have a lot of family & friends who are teachers too and it's pretty fucked up - especially the lack of respect they get in this society. My mom has actually had students tell her, "Why should we listen to/respect you? You're just a teacher." Pisses me off. :evil:
Okay, /rant. Back to the thread topic...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,430
When I lived in San Francisco around 1971 or so I cut my head open in the middle of the night while goofing off (hey, what can I say- life in the big city, in the early 70's, when I was barely drinking age ). I had a low paying job but no health insurance so I was very happy to have one of the nice young Docs at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic stitch my head up. If the same thing happened today I'd probably bleed to death before I could jump through all the paperwork hoops.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I'm currently still in school getting my PhD. 2 years in school for my MA, where I bartended at a Country Club for $8 an hour and no tips and also worked at a hardware store for $7.50 an hour--not at the same time though. I later waited tables also. I never made more than $1,000-$1,100 a month. With all the work that goes into graduate studies--despite the stereotypes--the time I was able to devote to part-time jobs is a bit limited.
The other 2 years after receiving my MA, I taught at a university--4 classes per semester-- and in the second year also at a community college, which added two more classes per semester. My yearly salary came out to a whopping $16,000. Ask anyone who has held an adjunct instructor position--it does not pay well.
Other expenses included:
rent, utilities, gas, car insurance, car maintenance, food, books and university fees (though financial aid covered this), credit card debt.
Whether or not $200 a month is a good quote, I simply could not fit it into my budget.
Was not paying the $200 a month my choice? Yes. But, that was not the purpose of this thread
So you had no issues pursuing your dreams of getting a Masters/now PHD to better YOUR future while putting your health care cost on other people?
Not the point of the thread, but you can go fuck yourself. You're quite a disgusting piece of shit for making an erroneous comment like that.
(Also, on a side note, now that I have funding while pursuing a PhD, healthcare is provided.)
That's quite a mouth on ya.... You must have gone to the Ron White School of Debate.
The result is, you sound a lot less educated than you claim to be, and undermines the point you are trying to make...
...and usually earns you a nice little vacation....
Why were you not covered by your parents insurance when you were a student?
Every question you've asked in this thread is condescending.[/quote]
How is that condescending??? Its a pretty basic questions, the OP stated in the first sentence "for 4 years" which most if not all masters programs are not 4 years.
I wasn't being sarcastic though. My intent was to start a conversation.
oh ... i totally understand ... i think you've gotten a decent discussion ... but sometimes you have to take a step back and view it from the perspective of some people on this board ... there are people here who like to use the words forced and theft when discussing taxes ... the very idea of socialized healthcare grates them to the bone ... they see a title like that and they take it like a slap to the face ...
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
I wasn't being sarcastic though. My intent was to start a conversation.
oh ... i totally understand ... i think you've gotten a decent discussion ... but sometimes you have to take a step back and view it from the perspective of some people on this board ... there are people here who like to use the words forced and theft when discussing taxes ... the very idea of socialized healthcare grates them to the bone ... they see a title like that and they take it like a slap to the face ...
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
oh ... i totally understand ... i think you've gotten a decent discussion ... but sometimes you have to take a step back and view it from the perspective of some people on this board ... there are people here who like to use the words forced and theft when discussing taxes ... the very idea of socialized healthcare grates them to the bone ... they see a title like that and they take it like a slap to the face ...
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care?
Its just your tone and the way you twist words to fit your agenda -- The OP didnt "Better themselves" by using other people. Yes, they utilized a service from time to time...you make it sound like a crime, and like one wouldnt have happened without the other.
Why were you not covered by your parents insurance when you were a student?
They didnt say anything about it, why would you even assume they have two parents, let alone parents who have decent enough coverage for their kids? Right off the bat, you're trying to pick apart why you dont like what he did.
You were in graduate school for 4 years??? how? I am assuiming this was to get your Master for Education, as you wanted to be a teacher? What were your other expensese during graduate school. $200 a month sounds like a great quote, considering you had two jobs.
Glad you know his situation so well -- came off a little condescending telling someone how their finances should work.
face reality... That is something that you continually ignore. I see your still wishing bad things on people who don't agree with you...
Umm, last I checked a dose of reality is helpful. I didnt see her as "wishing something bad," rather than making someone open their eyes to the fact that not everyone's parents can cover their healthcare all the time.
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
If thats the society you want to be a part of then so be it. I can't imagine raising my children by teaching them that they have no responsibilities for their actions and someone will always bail them out no matter what decision they make.
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
If thats the society you want to be a part of then so be it. I can't imagine raising my children by teaching them that they have no responsibilities for their actions and someone will always bail them out no matter what decision they make.
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
See, this is the fatal flaw in your whole line of reasoning. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they want people to have no responsibilities for their actions. Societies can believe BOTH in working together to help those in need AND in taking personal responsibility. Your belief that these are mutually exclusive concepts will fail you every time.
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
If thats the society you want to be a part of then so be it. I can't imagine raising my children by teaching them that they have no responsibilities for their actions and someone will always bail them out no matter what decision they make.
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
See, this is the fatal flaw in your whole line of reasoning. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they want people to have no responsibilities for their actions. Societies can believe BOTH in working together to help those in need AND in taking personal responsibility. Your belief that these are mutually exclusive concepts will fail you every time.
You'd think that would be obvious. I think some people just hate the idea of helping others just because someone out there is taking advantage of the system.
See, this is the fatal flaw in your whole line of reasoning. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they want people to have no responsibilities for their actions. Societies can believe BOTH in working together to help those in need AND in taking personal responsibility. Your belief that these are mutually exclusive concepts will fail you every time.
How can you be responsible yet always have a permenant safety net? Do you not understand human nature at all?
If there is zero consequences for your actions, as in you will always be bailed out by others, this will perpetuate a scoiety of people always being dependant on others and if your rewards are shared by everybody who would take on that responsibility?
You'd think that would be obvious. I think some people just hate the idea of helping others just because someone out there is taking advantage of the system.
Its not about helping others, the OP clearly pursued his/her dreams by taking the time obtaining a master/PHD by having others pay for their healthcare.
Sorry but I was raised to take care of your(my) own expenses/lifestyle and not put that burden on society.
Sorry if that strikes you as me "hate the idea of helping others"
Why not wait until you can get a job and healthcare before you try and obtain your dreams on someone elses dime.
Its not like the OP didn't have a Bachelors...
If thats the society you want to be a part of then so be it. I can't imagine raising my children by teaching them that they have no responsibilities for their actions and someone will always bail them out no matter what decision they make.
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
sooo ... a society that cares for one another is devoid of responsibility!?? ... do you even read the words you type? ... also, socialists countries are devoid of hard working people too!?? ...
You'd think that would be obvious. I think some people just hate the idea of helping others just because someone out there is taking advantage of the system.
Its not about helping others, the OP clearly pursued his/her dreams by taking the time obtaining a master/PHD by having others pay for their healthcare.
Sorry but I was raised to take care of your(my) own expenses/lifestyle and not put that burden on society.
Sorry if that strikes you as me "hate the idea of helping others"
Why not wait until you can get a job and healthcare before you try and obtain your dreams on someone elses dime.
Its not like the OP didn't have a Bachelors...
You're bouncing all over the place. You were talking about society...thats what "_" and i were adressing, now you're back to the OP... :?
I was also raised to take care of my own expenses, and I always have. I didnt have insurance for years...had to pay out of pocket if anything came up. I was taking a big chance though. Sometimes its not as cut and dry as you make it sound. The playing field is not level for all. The OP used those services three times...so now he's not responsible and burdensome on society in your eyes? :?
Its not about helping others, the OP clearly pursued his/her dreams by taking the time obtaining a master/PHD by having others pay for their healthcare.
Sorry but I was raised to take care of your(my) own expenses/lifestyle and not put that burden on society.
Sorry if that strikes you as me "hate the idea of helping others"
Why not wait until you can get a job and healthcare before you try and obtain your dreams on someone elses dime.
Its not like the OP didn't have a Bachelors...
the OP paid taxes ... taxes that go into the funding of things like roads and the police force ... and in this particular case - health care ...
if you got a problem - it should be with the state that decided that they would pay for people in his/her particular situation ... it shouldn't be with someone who qualifies for that care ... distorting the reality to fit some heavily prejudiced view of the system in order to equate it to some level of exploitation is just sad ...
You're bouncing all over the place. You were talking about society...thats what "_" and i were adressing, now you're back to the OP... :?
I was also raised to take care of my own expenses, and I always have. I didnt have insurance for years...had to pay out of pocket if anything came up. I was taking a big chance though. Sometimes its not as cut and dry as you make it sound. The playing field is not level for all. The OP used those services three times...so now he's not responsible and burdensome on society in your eyes? :?
The OP decided to use those services because they decided going to get their Masters was more important than being able to afford health care for HER/HIM SELF. Not because he/she was in desperate need, OP made a choice, which is a selfish one.
You don't find it ironic that someone is better themselves (through pursuing education/ PHD) by using other people to take care of their health care? Please quote anyone who use the word Force or Theft...
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
If thats the society you want to be a part of then so be it. I can't imagine raising my children by teaching them that they have no responsibilities for their actions and someone will always bail them out no matter what decision they make.
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
I don't know about you.. But up here in Canada, we have both! People who make mistakes are somewhat taken care of (through healthcare and a social safety net) and people who work hard and make good choices are rewarded for those choices. Sure, I could live off of welfare, but I'm pursuing an education and working to better myself. I want the house, the car, the guitars. So I work for them. I also want to make sure those that get sick are taken care of.
Nobody should go bankrupt because they get sick, period.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
some want the "safety net" there to catch those who, through no fault of their own, are down on their luck and will contribute more in taxes than they use over their lifetime because of a want to succeed. Even if that means catching those who are trying to game the system with the same net.
some think the safety net is an excuse for people who don't want to work hard and are gaming the system and would like it changed, maybe to reward those that work hard and cannot get by, rather than the people who don't work at all, as a way to encourage hard work and personal responsibility, or not have a net at all holding people accountable for their actions and choices...
I think both are valid arguments but if you continue to go back and forth telling the other what they aren't seeing you will go in a circle for hours. This is a fundamental difference in philosophy, Blockhead isn't a hateful person hell bent on ruining lives, and polaris and _ aren't crazy socialists trying to ruin capitalism.
this thing has taken off like a bat out of hell
I happen to subscribe to the safety net that rewards those working hard rather than those who choose to not do anything. But I think it should be done at the state, county, or municipal level...preferably rewarding those that work hard and aren't able to make ends meet for one reason or another.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Comments
I think we need a more clear definition of "mooching off the system". Is it necessarily mooching if someone isn't paying income taxes at the moment? What about the income - and other - taxes they pay at other points in their lives? And what about their other contributions to society? (E.g. I would argue that teachers contribute financially to our society by providing a valuable service for such little pay.)
Every question you've asked in this thread is condescending.
Nobody gives two shits about teachers anymore. My friends and family members have really soured on the profession for many reasons: the kids, the parents, the pay, the negative stigma that a certain group in this country has thrust upon them. A lot of people feel it is not worth it to go into teaching.
My friends on Wall St who admittedly contribute nothing to society and who are millionaires in their early 30s, they get away with doing nothing and making a teacher's salary (or nurse; or fireman) in a month....or sometimes a week.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/0 ... 57872.html
Granted, it wasn't a lot, since I didn't make a lot of money, but I still paid.
I wholeheartedly agree. I have a lot of family & friends who are teachers too and it's pretty fucked up - especially the lack of respect they get in this society. My mom has actually had students tell her, "Why should we listen to/respect you? You're just a teacher." Pisses me off. :evil:
Okay, /rant. Back to the thread topic...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That's quite a mouth on ya.... You must have gone to the Ron White School of Debate.
The result is, you sound a lot less educated than you claim to be, and undermines the point you are trying to make...
...and usually earns you a nice little vacation....
Every question you've asked in this thread is condescending.[/quote]
How is that condescending??? Its a pretty basic questions, the OP stated in the first sentence "for 4 years" which most if not all masters programs are not 4 years.
Why is this acceptbale, yet people who pursue a lifelong quest of professional drug abuse and TV watching wanting people to take care of their health care not acceptable?
I think this is acceptable too.
Its just your tone and the way you twist words to fit your agenda -- The OP didnt "Better themselves" by using other people. Yes, they utilized a service from time to time...you make it sound like a crime, and like one wouldnt have happened without the other.
They didnt say anything about it, why would you even assume they have two parents, let alone parents who have decent enough coverage for their kids? Right off the bat, you're trying to pick apart why you dont like what he did.
Glad you know his situation so well -- came off a little condescending telling someone how their finances should work.
Flat out condescending.
Umm, last I checked a dose of reality is helpful. I didnt see her as "wishing something bad," rather than making someone open their eyes to the fact that not everyone's parents can cover their healthcare all the time.
of course i don't find it ironic ... i believe that health care ... similar to roads and firefighters and police and education should be funded by the state ...
dude - just do a search on the word "force" and go through the threads ... i don't have to go through and quote it ... it's there for your own perusal ...
it is acceptable because in the society i want to be part of ... it isn't every person for themselves ... it's a society that operates in a collective where taking care of people when they need is is not considered an evil act ...
In a society like this, what will the reward be for working hard and being responsible?
See, this is the fatal flaw in your whole line of reasoning. NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they want people to have no responsibilities for their actions. Societies can believe BOTH in working together to help those in need AND in taking personal responsibility. Your belief that these are mutually exclusive concepts will fail you every time.
You'd think that would be obvious. I think some people just hate the idea of helping others just because someone out there is taking advantage of the system.
If there is zero consequences for your actions, as in you will always be bailed out by others, this will perpetuate a scoiety of people always being dependant on others and if your rewards are shared by everybody who would take on that responsibility?
Sorry but I was raised to take care of your(my) own expenses/lifestyle and not put that burden on society.
Sorry if that strikes you as me "hate the idea of helping others"
Why not wait until you can get a job and healthcare before you try and obtain your dreams on someone elses dime.
Its not like the OP didn't have a Bachelors...
sooo ... a society that cares for one another is devoid of responsibility!?? ... do you even read the words you type? ... also, socialists countries are devoid of hard working people too!?? ...
You're bouncing all over the place. You were talking about society...thats what "_" and i were adressing, now you're back to the OP... :?
I was also raised to take care of my own expenses, and I always have. I didnt have insurance for years...had to pay out of pocket if anything came up. I was taking a big chance though. Sometimes its not as cut and dry as you make it sound. The playing field is not level for all. The OP used those services three times...so now he's not responsible and burdensome on society in your eyes? :?
that is included in her tuition :?
the OP paid taxes ... taxes that go into the funding of things like roads and the police force ... and in this particular case - health care ...
if you got a problem - it should be with the state that decided that they would pay for people in his/her particular situation ... it shouldn't be with someone who qualifies for that care ... distorting the reality to fit some heavily prejudiced view of the system in order to equate it to some level of exploitation is just sad ...
I don't know about you.. But up here in Canada, we have both! People who make mistakes are somewhat taken care of (through healthcare and a social safety net) and people who work hard and make good choices are rewarded for those choices. Sure, I could live off of welfare, but I'm pursuing an education and working to better myself. I want the house, the car, the guitars. So I work for them. I also want to make sure those that get sick are taken care of.
Nobody should go bankrupt because they get sick, period.
some want the "safety net" there to catch those who, through no fault of their own, are down on their luck and will contribute more in taxes than they use over their lifetime because of a want to succeed. Even if that means catching those who are trying to game the system with the same net.
some think the safety net is an excuse for people who don't want to work hard and are gaming the system and would like it changed, maybe to reward those that work hard and cannot get by, rather than the people who don't work at all, as a way to encourage hard work and personal responsibility, or not have a net at all holding people accountable for their actions and choices...
I think both are valid arguments but if you continue to go back and forth telling the other what they aren't seeing you will go in a circle for hours. This is a fundamental difference in philosophy, Blockhead isn't a hateful person hell bent on ruining lives, and polaris and _ aren't crazy socialists trying to ruin capitalism.
this thing has taken off like a bat out of hell
I happen to subscribe to the safety net that rewards those working hard rather than those who choose to not do anything. But I think it should be done at the state, county, or municipal level...preferably rewarding those that work hard and aren't able to make ends meet for one reason or another.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
-Admin
Posting Guidelines
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=91525