US Govt begins its crackdown ... on its own citizens.

Prince Of Dorkness

I actually agree with WaveRider.

I see this kind of thing a lot. Many of our liberties are taken away and we cheer it on because the government has convinced us that we're TERRFIED of domestic terrorists, Islamic terrorists and radical anarchists coming to our door.

We beg the government to come into our houses and bulldoze over us to "keep us safe" because of a few random nuts.

Much like people in the early 80s were advocating quarantining people with HIV to "protect" the uninflected. Or the Patriot Act.

mikepegg44

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

I actually agree with WaveRider.

I see this kind of thing a lot. Many of our liberties are taken away and we cheer it on because the government has convinced us that we're TERRFIED of domestic terrorists, Islamic terrorists and radical anarchists coming to our door.

We beg the government to come into our houses and bulldoze over us to "keep us safe" because of a few random nuts.

Much like people in the early 80s were advocating quarantining people with HIV to "protect" the uninflected. Or the Patriot Act.

he still stands

mikepegg44 wrote:

everyone in America seems to say they want freedom. yet they support candidates in the government who are hell bent on infringing on the rights of the people. it happens all the time. Republicans and democrats across the board support legislation that can end up causing American citizens to be detained indefinitely. They support legislation that forces their own morality on to others...

I can only come to one assumption...that most Americans hate most other Americans for their freedoms since the actions of many are to try to take those away from others. Gay marriage, victimless crimes, abortion laws... all of these things are about infringing on the rights of others to force morality...what other conclusion can I come to? Americans hate freedoms of other Americans much more than any terrorist.

ahh yes. +1.

brianlux

Wave Rider, mikepegg44, he still stands and Prince of Dorkness, you all make good points. It's sad to think that we cannot call ourselves a free people. Maybe I'm too naive or too foolish to react to this with fear. I guess I see the whole thing as something I can't do anything about and don't want to live my life in fear. All I can say is, don't do anything foolish. Be free in your mind because that's the only place you can ever really be free.

peacefrompaul

brianlux wrote:

It's sad to think that we cannot call ourselves a free people. Maybe I'm too naive or too foolish to react to this with fear. I guess I see the whole thing as something I can't do anything about and don't want to live my life in fear. All I can say is, don't do anything foolish. Be free in your mind because that's the only place you can ever really be free.

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Jeanwah

brianlux wrote:

Wave Rider, mikepegg44, he still stands and Prince of Dorkness, you all make good points. It's sad to think that we cannot call ourselves a free people. Maybe I'm too naive or too foolish to react to this with fear. I guess I see the whole thing as something I can't do anything about and don't want to live my life in fear. All I can say is, don't do anything foolish. Be free in your mind because that's the only place you can ever really be free.

I agree. Although, :think: we could move out of the U.S....

Prince Of Dorkness

Sorry to make this another "gay" thread...

But how many people have voted to take away the rights of gay married couples because they have been convinced that same sex marriage is a "threat" to the sanctity of marriage and a threat to their own families.

People who are afraid are people,who act irrationally and give away their rights..

peacefrompaul

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Wave Rider, mikepegg44, he still stands and Prince of Dorkness, you all make good points. It's sad to think that we cannot call ourselves a free people. Maybe I'm too naive or too foolish to react to this with fear. I guess I see the whole thing as something I can't do anything about and don't want to live my life in fear. All I can say is, don't do anything foolish. Be free in your mind because that's the only place you can ever really be free.

I agree. Although, :think: we could move out of the U.S....

No thanks. I still love this country despite its issues.

SweetChildofMine

Put someone on probation. A probation officer can put an innocent in the "clink" with or without suspicion. Say whatever the f*%k they want and detain someone without giving them any reason or any point of release. If the "law" wishes to charge with you a offense it can find something... tie you up in BS. While true criminals in my eyes run around inhibited by global repercussions.

he still stands

SweetChildofMine wrote:

Put someone on probation. A probation officer can put an innocent in the "clink" with or without suspicion. Say whatever the f*%k they want and detain someone without giving them any reason or any point of release. If the "law" wishes to charge with you a offense it can find something... tie you up in BS. While true criminals in my eyes run around inhibited by global repercussions.

that's very true. there are literally hundreds of laws on the books that just simply aren't enforced but *could* be if they're looking for a reason to lock you up. I'm sure we all technically "break the law" several times every day.

true story; the town where I grew up there is a law still on the books that prohibits "colored" people from being outside after dark. :shock: implicitly... it pretty much is enforced. 100% white people and I think a black person would probably want to not be there...

good ol' Keithsburg, Illinois.

SweetChildofMine

Only thing I would side on the theory of reducing "big government" would be its enormous amount of laws and statutes which has become a paradox to the Constitution itself.


The theory of reducing "big government" does not lie in the reduction of its health and human services which in actuality is a small piece of the economic "pie". Reduction in programs taking care of a countries humanitarian needs of its citizens while the rise of its failed correctional facilities increases.


Whatever. Thats just the simple short version of those thoughts. People are idiots.

WaveRyder

Habeus Corpus is key tenant to our way. Most other policy descision's constitutionality is debatable, i can admit that even as a strict Constitutionalist.

But, NDAA and its disregard for Habeus Corpus, well, that's as blatant of a Constitional violation as it gets. Hell, the Magna Carta of 1215 even laid out those rights for all human beings.

"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed w/ force against him, or send others to do so, except by lawful judgement of his equals." - AKA....everyone is guaranteed a trial by jury of his peers.

Well, not in America anymore.

Cosmo

WaveRyder wrote:

Habeus Corpus is key tenant to our way. Most other policy descision's constitutionality is debatable, i can admit that even as a strict Constitutionalist.

But, NDAA and its disregard for Habeus Corpus, well, that's as blatant of a Constitional violation as it gets. Hell, the Magna Carta of 1215 even laid out those rights for all human beings.

"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed w/ force against him, or send others to do so, except by lawful judgement of his equals." - AKA....everyone is guaranteed a trial by jury of his peers.

Well, not in America anymore.

...
Is Guantanamo Bay, Cuba part of America?
I agree with you... which is why I oppose Camp Delta in Guantanamo Bay. If we want to call ourselves Americans... we need to stop acting like Soviets.

WaveRyder

Cosmo wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

Habeus Corpus is key tenant to our way. Most other policy descision's constitutionality is debatable, i can admit that even as a strict Constitutionalist.

But, NDAA and its disregard for Habeus Corpus, well, that's as blatant of a Constitional violation as it gets. Hell, the Magna Carta of 1215 even laid out those rights for all human beings.

"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed w/ force against him, or send others to do so, except by lawful judgement of his equals." - AKA....everyone is guaranteed a trial by jury of his peers.

Well, not in America anymore.

...
Is Guantanamo Bay, Cuba part of America?
I agree with you... which is why I oppose Camp Delta in Guantanamo Bay. If we want to call ourselves Americans... we need to stop acting like Soviets.

yep...ive been up in arms about GItmo since day 1

Cosmo

WaveRyder wrote:

yep...ive been up in arms about GItmo since day 1

...
That place is a terrorists petri dish. Needs to be shut down... 8 years ago.

SweetChildofMine

WaveRyder wrote:

Habeus Corpus is key tenant to our way. Most other policy descision's constitutionality is debatable, i can admit that even as a strict Constitutionalist.

But, NDAA and its disregard for Habeus Corpus, well, that's as blatant of a Constitional violation as it gets. Hell, the Magna Carta of 1215 even laid out those rights for all human beings.

"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed w/ force against him, or send others to do so, except by lawful judgement of his equals." - AKA....everyone is guaranteed a trial by jury of his peers.

Well, not in America anymore.

Funnny. I was just reading the Writ of Habeus Corpus. It has no meaning. They will red tape you if they want in kangaroo court system. We vow justice but there is none.

WaveRyder

SweetChildofMine wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

Habeus Corpus is key tenant to our way. Most other policy descision's constitutionality is debatable, i can admit that even as a strict Constitutionalist.

But, NDAA and its disregard for Habeus Corpus, well, that's as blatant of a Constitional violation as it gets. Hell, the Magna Carta of 1215 even laid out those rights for all human beings.

"No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed w/ force against him, or send others to do so, except by lawful judgement of his equals." - AKA....everyone is guaranteed a trial by jury of his peers.

Well, not in America anymore.

Funnny. I was just reading the Writ of Habeus Corpus. It has no meaning. They will red tape you if they want in kangaroo court system. We vow justice but there is none.

yes, but at least there's opportunity to play the game. Now, there is no such opportunity.

WaveRyder

and then there's this. Pretty sure im on this list.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02141.html

at that rate, in 10 years, evey single american will be on this list.

peacefrompaul

WaveRyder wrote:

and then there's this. Pretty sure im on this list.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02141.html

at that rate, in 10 years, evey single american will be on this list.

Of course, they're keeping an eye on us. I don't like it but it doesn't surprise me.