Police State?

2

Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's pretty easy to throw up an article about something happening in another country and assuming it's true.

    So are you saying this isn't true?

    Did you even read the article?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's pretty easy to throw up an article about something happening in another country and assuming it's true.

    So are you saying this isn't true?

    Did you even read the article?

    Well, it's not true in my area. I don't know what goes on in Austin, Texas, since I don't live there, but this article is dangerous in that it paints a broad picture of schools in the U.S. Perhaps many inner city schools need cops to patrol them, but I feel that this article is extremist.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's pretty easy to throw up an article about something happening in another country and assuming it's true.

    So are you saying this isn't true?

    Did you even read the article?
    It would be similar to an American reading an article about an extreme true event in Iran or China and then making a mass generalization.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Jason P wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's pretty easy to throw up an article about something happening in another country and assuming it's true.

    So are you saying this isn't true?

    Did you even read the article?
    It would be similar to an American reading an article about an extreme true event in Iran or China and then making a mass generalization.

    That's right.

    I have a problem with the alarmist perspective it takes. I mean, look at the intro paragraph: "More and more US schools have police patrolling the corridors. Pupils are being arrested for throwing paper planes and failing to pick up crumbs from the canteen floor. Why is the state criminalising normal childhood behaviour?"

    Really? People believe this shit that students in this country are getting arrested for paper planes and crumbs? Maybe on ONE excessive instance,at most. It's makes the Guardian that much less of a credible source for news. There's a reason I have the siggy I have about believing everything we hear and see.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jeanwah wrote:
    this article is dangerous in that it paints a broad picture of schools in the U.S.

    No it doesn't.

    Did you read the article?

    The article makes it perfectly clear that they're talking about a number of schools in Texas.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jason P wrote:
    It would be similar to an American reading an article about an extreme true event in Iran or China and then making a mass generalization.

    It would be similar if anyone made a mass generalization, but they didn't. So your point is moot.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jeanwah wrote:
    People believe this shit that students in this country are getting arrested for paper planes and crumbs? Maybe on ONE excessive instance,at most.

    One excessive instance?

    Did you read more than the title and subtitle of this article?

    Here, I'll help you out, as maybe the article was too long for you to manage more than a couple of sentences:


    'Each day, hundreds of schoolchildren appear before courts in Texas charged with offences such as swearing, misbehaving on the school bus or getting in to a punch-up in the playground. Children have been arrested for possessing cigarettes, wearing "inappropriate" clothes and being late for school.

    In 2010, the police gave close to 300,000 "Class C misdemeanour" tickets to children as young as six in Texas for offences in and out of school, which result in fines, community service and even prison time. What was once handled with a telling-off by the teacher or a call to parents can now result in arrest and a record that may cost a young person a place in college or a job years later.'
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Byrnzie wrote:

    One excessive instance?

    Did you read more than the title and subtitle of this article?

    Here, I'll help you out, as maybe the article was too long for you to manage more than a couple of sentences:


    'Each day, hundreds of schoolchildren appear before courts in Texas charged with offences such as swearing, misbehaving on the school bus or getting in to a punch-up in the playground. Children have been arrested for possessing cigarettes, wearing "inappropriate" clothes and being late for school.

    In 2010, the police gave close to 300,000 "Class C misdemeanour" tickets to children as young as six in Texas for offences in and out of school, which result in fines, community service and even prison time. What was once handled with a telling-off by the teacher or a call to parents can now result in arrest and a record that may cost a young person a place in college or a job years later.'

    It's crazy for sure.

    But in Texas there are 6.6 Million kids (2009 data). So that 300,000 represents about 4.5% of the population and that's if there are no repeat offenders.

    But anyhow, it is just ridiculous to use cops and the justice system to deal with paper airplanes, perfume, heck, even most school fights. That's what the parents, principals, and teachers should be doing. That problem is, in too many places, the parents don't care or simply defend their child and the schools are handcuffed and cannot discipline.

    Root cause - Parents - they need to deal with their kids.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Root cause - Parents - they need to deal with their kids.
    The root cause is that lawsuits have created a "zero tolerance" policy. I remember raising a ton of hell in school. It's not a police state, it's a nanny state.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Jason P wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Root cause - Parents - they need to deal with their kids.
    The root cause is that lawsuits have created a "zero tolerance" policy. I remember raising a ton of hell in school. It's not a police state, it's a nanny state.

    Correct, who brings the dumb lawsuits??? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Root cause - Parents - they need to deal with their kids.
    The root cause is that lawsuits have created a "zero tolerance" policy. I remember raising a ton of hell in school. It's not a police state, it's a nanny state.

    Correct, who brings the dumb lawsuits??? ;)
    Touché
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Jason P wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Root cause - Parents - they need to deal with their kids.
    The root cause is that lawsuits have created a "zero tolerance" policy. I remember raising a ton of hell in school. It's not a police state, it's a nanny state.


    I don't even know if you have to sue anymore, it is the threat to sue...

    I think there needs to be a collective effort to stand up to this non-sense and start making people bring their law suits on. The teachers union should be focusing on this with their massive resources...But that would mean the teachers union would actually have to care about the kids

    Without districts that are willing to say, ok, lets go to court...this trend will continue

    Schools are simply prisons now anyway...time to think of a new education model
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    this article is dangerous in that it paints a broad picture of schools in the U.S.

    No it doesn't.

    Did you read the article?

    The article makes it perfectly clear that they're talking about a number of schools in Texas.

    i found that while the article was written about schools in Texas, the title of the story was a little leading. a more accurate description of the story would be that more schools in texas are using police officer. that way, your not painting the whole country with the same brush.

    but back to the story, i am not going to say that i am surprised by this but i would like to learn more about the reason for the arrest. i have a feeling that there may be more reason than those in the article
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    People believe this shit that students in this country are getting arrested for paper planes and crumbs? Maybe on ONE excessive instance,at most.

    One excessive instance?

    Did you read more than the title and subtitle of this article?

    Here, I'll help you out, as maybe the article was too long for you to manage more than a couple of sentences:


    'Each day, hundreds of schoolchildren appear before courts in Texas charged with offences such as swearing, misbehaving on the school bus or getting in to a punch-up in the playground. Children have been arrested for possessing cigarettes, wearing "inappropriate" clothes and being late for school.

    In 2010, the police gave close to 300,000 "Class C misdemeanour" tickets to children as young as six in Texas for offences in and out of school, which result in fines, community service and even prison time. What was once handled with a telling-off by the teacher or a call to parents can now result in arrest and a record that may cost a young person a place in college or a job years later.'

    Yes, I did. Do I need to point out that one ONE occasion a student was arrested for the paper airplanes and on a SEPARATE occasion a student got her arm broke from a cop breaking it due to crumbs in the cafeteria (which happened in a different state altogether)?

    When an article's heading generalizes an issue with the country rather than specifying it's happening in one state ("The US schools with their own police"), it's is blatantly written that way to grab the reader's attention so they continue reading the story. I used to work in publishing and they do this for that reason. But it also makes one generalize the issue! Only the sub-heading mentions that it's a state issue.

    Why are you so in agreement with this article anyway Byrnzie? Because you want to believe it's true? I mean, that's why people believe what they do... Who's to say that any of these sources are credible? How do you check for credibility? We all know how in-credible FOX news is, regardless of how much Godfather likes to source them as thread topics. This article immediately has me questioning how exagerated it is right from the generalized heading and I wonder about this writer's and pub's credibility because of that. Anyone from Texas, particularly Austin on here to verify this issue with the schools? I just know that my state (New York) this is not happening in.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    fife wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    this article is dangerous in that it paints a broad picture of schools in the U.S.

    No it doesn't.

    Did you read the article?

    The article makes it perfectly clear that they're talking about a number of schools in Texas.

    i found that while the article was written about schools in Texas, the title of the story was a little leading. a more accurate description of the story would be that more schools in texas are using police officer. that way, your not painting the whole country with the same brush.

    but back to the story, i am not going to say that i am surprised by this but i would like to learn more about the reason for the arrest. i have a feeling that there may be more reason than those in the article

    That heading is quite leading and that's dangerous. And yeah, how much info are we really getting on the issue? It's not really an objective piece; it's written to alarm the reader.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jeanwah wrote:
    When an article's heading generalizes an issue with the country rather than specifying it's happening in one state ("The US schools with their own police")

    Why are you so in agreement with this article anyway Byrnzie?

    You're doing exactly what you're preaching against: believing what you choose to believe.

    'The U.S schools with their own police'. How is that generalizing? The article is about U.S schools with their own police, so how is that title misleading?

    Why am I so in agreement with the article? Go ahead and tell me what's not to agree on. What factual errors are there in this article?

    Why don't you just admit that you've decided that because this doesn't happen at your school you've decided to dismiss the issue as being untrue?

    Are you suggesting that the US attorney general, Eric Holder lied on this issue?
    Are you suggesting that Deborah Fowler, deputy director of Texas Appleseed, an Austin legal rights group, and principal author of a 200-page study of the consequences of policing in Texas schools, lied on this issue?
    Are you suggesting that 300,000 children or their parents lied about their kids being booked for minor offences in 2010?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    When an article's heading generalizes an issue with the country rather than specifying it's happening in one state ("The US schools with their own police")

    Why are you so in agreement with this article anyway Byrnzie?

    You're doing exactly what you're preaching against: believing what you choose to believe.

    'The U.S schools with their own police'. How is that generalizing? The article is about U.S schools with their own police, so how is that title misleading?

    Why am I so in agreement with the article? Go ahead and tell me what's not to agree on. What factual errors are there in this article?

    Why don't you just admit that you've decided that because this doesn't happen at your school you've decided to dismiss the issue as being untrue?

    Are you suggesting that the US attorney general, Eric Holder lied on this issue?
    Are you suggesting that Deborah Fowler, deputy director of Texas Appleseed, an Austin legal rights group, and principal author of a 200-page study of the consequences of policing in Texas schools, lied on this issue?
    Are you suggesting that 300,000 children or their parents lied about their kids being booked for minor offences in 2010?

    It's generalizing the entire country when it's happening in only *1* state. (there are 50 states) Emphasizing Texas would certainly tell readers that it is not a nationwide thing. I know you're just being difficult here.

    How would you know if it's factual? You're guessing as much as the rest of us not living in or understanding what's going on in Texas schools. I said that I don't know what happens in Texas and if anyone does, to tell us.

    Are you suggesting we believe every single thing ever written down?? Because that's what you're doing: believing it because someone said so. I can bet we're not getting the entire story here. Anything written alarmingly tends to do that sort of thing... leave out other details...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's generalizing the entire country when it's happening in only *1* state. (there are 50 states) Emphasizing Texas would certainly tell readers that it is not a nationwide thing. I know you're just being difficult here.

    It does emphasize Texas.

    You say I'm being dificult? This is probably the most petit and pathetic discussion I've ever had on this board.
    Jeanwah wrote:
    How would you know if it's factual? You're guessing as much as the rest of us not living in or understanding what's going on in Texas schools. I said that I don't know what happens in Texas and if anyone does, to tell us.

    So are you saying the article is untrue? Great, now go ahead and show us how it's untrue.
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Are you suggesting we believe every single thing ever written down?? Because that's what you're doing: believing it because someone said so. I can bet we're not getting the entire story here. Anything written alarmingly tends to do that sort of thing... leave out other details...

    I posted an article about police patrolling Texas schools. From this you claim that I believe everything that's ever written down?
    Have you really got nothing better to do than engage in this pointless pissing match?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's generalizing the entire country when it's happening in only *1* state. (there are 50 states) Emphasizing Texas would certainly tell readers that it is not a nationwide thing. I know you're just being difficult here.

    It does emphasize Texas.

    You say I'm being dificult? This is probably the most petit and pathetic discussion I've ever had on this board.
    Jeanwah wrote:
    How would you know if it's factual? You're guessing as much as the rest of us not living in or understanding what's going on in Texas schools. I said that I don't know what happens in Texas and if anyone does, to tell us.

    So are you saying the article is untrue? Great, now go ahead and show us how it's untrue.
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Are you suggesting we believe every single thing ever written down?? Because that's what you're doing: believing it because someone said so. I can bet we're not getting the entire story here. Anything written alarmingly tends to do that sort of thing... leave out other details...

    I posted an article about police patrolling Texas schools. From this you claim that I believe everything that's ever written down?
    Have you really got nothing better to do than engage in this pointless pissing match?

    You're just sour because you're not winning. I find it pathetic that you believe this garbage that blatantly has holes in it.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    so theres no police is schools??
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    i just need to say

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