see this is what I meant before - i don't understand why using women wearing very little, or sex in general, in marketing is deemed offensive
I think it's problematic in part because it reduces women to objects rather than subjects and teaches girls that they are more valued for their big boobs than for their big brains. The message is that women/girls are useful insomuch as they fulfill the sexual desires of men. It's not about a specific subset of the population supposedly being offended; it's about the very real effect it has on society as a whole, especially young girls.
I think it shouldn't redult in self esteem issues it's all a matter of conditioning, and where does it end is the real question? people will attack sexual marketing and strippers, porn and the adult industry as a whole they attack models and I just see it as an evergrowing thing
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
I think it shouldn't redult in self esteem issues it's all a matter of conditioning, and where does it end is the real question? people will attack sexual marketing and strippers, porn and the adult industry as a whole they attack models and I just see it as an evergrowing thing
I don't understand why you say it shouldn't result in self esteem issues because it's a matter of conditioning. That's exactly why it DOES result in esteem (and other) issues. Strippers, porn, and the adult industry are not under attack here at all because they are restricted to & marketed to adults. I agree that it's an ever growing thing and the real question is where does it end - but my concern is more for where it ends for the children than for the adults. I don't believe subjecting children to the harms of sexual marketing, etc is a fair trade off for somehow protecting the adults in the porn industry (from what?).
the adult industry was an example of what is already under attacked for allegedly objectifying women, the wuestion was how far overboard we might go, I wasn't actually talking about protecting people in it. I also wonder if were we to restrict this sort of advertising is it a free speech issue.
As far as what I meant by conditioning, it is my experience that children who are insecure in terms of appearance often come from households with parents that are insecure or who go overboard with their appearance; I think that has a bigger impact on kids at a formative age.
adults are not immune from the same insecurites as children anyway
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
the adult industry was an example of what is already under attacked for allegedly objectifying women, the wuestion was how far overboard we might go, I wasn't actually talking about protecting people in it. I also wonder if were we to restrict this sort of advertising is it a free speech issue.
As far as what I meant by conditioning, it is my experience that children who are insecure in terms of appearance often come from households with parents that are insecure or who go overboard with their appearance; I think that has a bigger impact on kids at a formative age.
adults are not immune from the same insecurites as children anyway
I agree that adults aren't immune - but then it's no wonder children are coming from households with insecure parents & then having problems themselves. I believe I've read studies, though, that indicate pretty clearly that media has an impact on children that it's hard for even the best parents to mitigate.
I think most people would like to see self-censorship of the media out of their own sense of personal responsibility rather than legislative restrictions that may or may not be a free speech issue. But since you brought up the adult industry & free speech - do you think it's a violation of free speech for it to be illegal to subject children to "adult" entertainment? If not, and if sexual marketing to children is found to have similar "harm", then why not restrict sexual marketing to children as well?
I think that it's right that they aren't allowed in certain events or places due to the sexual content etc but i see that as no different from not allowing a child in a bar. In terms of just regular access to porn, I think older children will find it anyway and are aware of its existance, I understand the fear of sexualising children to young but at the same time I feel that placing restrictions on anything makes it all the more desirable and taboo which attracts children. for example I was brought up being allowed a little wine with my dinner or a sip of whiskey if I asked and hence when i was a teenager and started going out and drinking properly i never felt the need to lie to my parents about it like the majority of my friends. i don't know if I think porn should be banned to under 18s, although with the internet it can't be anyway. i don't think many burlesque type entertainments where participants wear more than most women on the beach should be
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
I have an associates degree in media marketing and this whole topic is a big reason it has made me sick to my stomach and I've gotten away from it. Sellers and marketers have no souls. Their primary reason to work/live is to manipulate the public into buying whatever garbage they have to sell. And that means exploitation of women and children. Also, children in general is a huge target of the media and studies show that the media has more influence over kids than parents do. Think of all the symbols, logos and media messages we see every day. Double that for kids, because they are more attentive to the media than adults are.
A huge issue I have right now in the media is the dumbing down of society. Watch how many ads/messages you see where it portrays an adult being dumb. It's everywhere, and it's dumbing society down because society can't help but relate to the media. It's all a part of the agenda. It's funny because men and women both are usually the one's made to look stupid in these ads. But that's how marketers and sellers enslave the public.
does that mean you are generally against porn... or just the saturation of it?
As I've said I think the feminist agenda in the Western world has very little left to reasonably fight for anyway... but you don't think you can be employed in porn and still be a feminist?
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
does that mean you are generally against porn... or just the saturation of it?
As I've said I think the feminist agenda in the Western world has very little left to reasonably fight for anyway... but you don't think you can be employed in porn and still be a feminist?
Heck no I am a man after all
But there was a time when access to porn was not as easy as it now. I truly believe that the proliferation of porn hvia the as changed the way women are viewed, and not for the better. I do think a woman can be employed in porn and be a feminist, some might argue that is the ultimate empowerment. I don't know if I buy that though.
To further add to the article on the gender based toys...this is the original LEGO ad they used in 1981 to sell LEGO to all children. I remember it, and I think it's awesome. My brother and I could mix up all the pieces, play together and make fantastic things. It was the one toy we both enjoyed alone, and together.
I obviously did NOT make this and The LEGO Company has the rights to these images.
The ad caption says:
Have you seen anything like it? Not just what she's made, but how proud it's made her. It's a look you'll see whenever children build something all by themselves. No matter what they have created.
Younger children build for fun.(Then it describes LEGO for children 3-7 year old.) Older children build for realism.(Then it describes LEGO for 7-12 year olds.)
LEGO Universal building sets will help your children discover something very, very special: themselves.
Comments
I think it's problematic in part because it reduces women to objects rather than subjects and teaches girls that they are more valued for their big boobs than for their big brains. The message is that women/girls are useful insomuch as they fulfill the sexual desires of men. It's not about a specific subset of the population supposedly being offended; it's about the very real effect it has on society as a whole, especially young girls.
I don't understand why you say it shouldn't result in self esteem issues because it's a matter of conditioning. That's exactly why it DOES result in esteem (and other) issues. Strippers, porn, and the adult industry are not under attack here at all because they are restricted to & marketed to adults. I agree that it's an ever growing thing and the real question is where does it end - but my concern is more for where it ends for the children than for the adults. I don't believe subjecting children to the harms of sexual marketing, etc is a fair trade off for somehow protecting the adults in the porn industry (from what?).
As far as what I meant by conditioning, it is my experience that children who are insecure in terms of appearance often come from households with parents that are insecure or who go overboard with their appearance; I think that has a bigger impact on kids at a formative age.
adults are not immune from the same insecurites as children anyway
I agree that adults aren't immune - but then it's no wonder children are coming from households with insecure parents & then having problems themselves. I believe I've read studies, though, that indicate pretty clearly that media has an impact on children that it's hard for even the best parents to mitigate.
I think most people would like to see self-censorship of the media out of their own sense of personal responsibility rather than legislative restrictions that may or may not be a free speech issue. But since you brought up the adult industry & free speech - do you think it's a violation of free speech for it to be illegal to subject children to "adult" entertainment? If not, and if sexual marketing to children is found to have similar "harm", then why not restrict sexual marketing to children as well?
A huge issue I have right now in the media is the dumbing down of society. Watch how many ads/messages you see where it portrays an adult being dumb. It's everywhere, and it's dumbing society down because society can't help but relate to the media. It's all a part of the agenda. It's funny because men and women both are usually the one's made to look stupid in these ads. But that's how marketers and sellers enslave the public.
Now my kids will stops fighting over them!
Blame the internet. The proliferation of pornography has tainted the world and hurt the feminist agenda in many many ways.
As I've said I think the feminist agenda in the Western world has very little left to reasonably fight for anyway... but you don't think you can be employed in porn and still be a feminist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibyAJOS ... re=related
But there was a time when access to porn was not as easy as it now. I truly believe that the proliferation of porn hvia the as changed the way women are viewed, and not for the better. I do think a woman can be employed in porn and be a feminist, some might argue that is the ultimate empowerment. I don't know if I buy that though.
I obviously did NOT make this and The LEGO Company has the rights to these images.
The ad caption says:
Have you seen anything like it? Not just what she's made, but how proud it's made her. It's a look you'll see whenever children build something all by themselves. No matter what they have created.
Younger children build for fun. (Then it describes LEGO for children 3-7 year old.)
Older children build for realism. (Then it describes LEGO for 7-12 year olds.)
LEGO Universal building sets will help your children discover something very, very special: themselves.