Cooperation not Competition...

RW81233
RW81233 Posts: 2,393
edited January 2012 in A Moving Train
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... J.facebook

You mean when you severely diminish economic inequality, pay teachers what they are worth, and give them the responsibilty to assess students the students outperform American kids and compete with the best students in the world? I'll be damned...
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  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    RW81233 wrote:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/#.Tv8a8s6YIgJ.facebook

    You mean when you severely diminish economic inequality, pay teachers what they are worth, and give them the responsibilty to assess students the students outperform American kids and compete with the best students in the world? I'll be damned...


    They also do not have private schools.
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    Private School is such a funny idea...it's like a country club for kids to go learn at. Disclaimer...I attended a private college for undergrad after two years of community college, but really didn't understand what it meant.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    RW81233 wrote:
    Private School is such a funny idea...it's like a country club for kids to go learn at. Disclaimer...I attended a private college for undergrad after two years of community college, but really didn't understand what it meant.


    Now you're talking college. That's different.
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    It is a little different, but, even then it's a way for rich parents to seperate their kids from poor students. In Finland all schools, including Universities, are public. Magically they dominate us in education.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    RW81233 wrote:
    It is a little different, but, even then it's a way for rich parents to seperate their kids from poor students. In Finland all schools, including Universities, are public. Magically they dominate us in education.


    Magically because good teachers won't teach anywhere else. There is nowhere else to make more money in Finland.
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    Here we'd rather throw money willy nilly into "charter schools" but not actually reward teachers who promote learning.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    RW81233 wrote:
    Here we'd rather throw money willy nilly into "charter schools" but not actually reward teachers who promote learning.


    We can't promote good teachers because of the teachers union.

    Have you seen Waiting for Superman?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Oh you're a teacher. Well I probably can't convince you.
  • blueandwhite
    blueandwhite Posts: 662
    I've always wondered; is education the most despised career choice in the US? A lot of the posts on the train would lend me to believe that being a welfare mom is a step up from being a teacher in the United States.

    As for the Finnish model; it would never work in the US. Equitable access to education doesn't seem to be something Americans want; just like equitable access to health care and social security. Those concepts are too socialist for the US to even entertain.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    blueandwhite wrote:
    I've always wondered; is education the most despised career choice in the US? A lot of the posts on the train would lend me to believe that being a welfare mom is a step up from being a teacher in the United States.

    As for the Finnish model; it would never work in the US. Equitable access to education doesn't seem to be something Americans want; just like equitable access to health care and social security. Those concepts are too socialist for the US to even entertain.

    What about the Health Care Bill?
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Perhaps the problem isn't always the schools or teachers (whether private or public), but instead the parenting of children which instill kids with the necessary attention and morals to succeed. Look around our nation, that's what has changed most and the root cause of why our education system has been on the decline...but instead of addressing that, we think we can throw money at the problem and it obviously doesn't work.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • blueandwhite
    blueandwhite Posts: 662
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    What about the Health Care Bill?

    Again, speaking from an outsider's POV; that doesn't seem to be all that popular down there either.
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    RW81233 wrote:
    Here we'd rather throw money willy nilly into "charter schools" but not actually reward teachers who promote learning.


    We can't promote good teachers because of the teachers union.

    Have you seen Waiting for Superman?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/
    Yeah I've seen waiting for superman - it brought up some decent points. You are also right that there should be some sort of reward system for excellence in teaching. However, as another poster mentioned some of the problems we have in education are not teacher based, but rather the products of the contexts from which students are emerging from. At the same time we have this unfounded hatred for unions in this country that makes little sense. Unions, in general, look out for the best interests of the workers (which many of us are)...I don't get why we don't like them in this country.
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    Middle class and rich America don't want to lend a helping hand to others in healthcare..
    Do you really think they would allow an equal footing in education.
    Get real
    It's a nation of me first and the give me give me
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    Those same people often claim to be religious. The weird part, and this isn't always true, is that conservatives claim to listen to god but participate in things that wouldn't be considered very christian/catholic. Conversely, liberals, often disavow god or organized religion but behave in ways that would seem more consistent with what religion teaches (loving thy neighbor and respecting others for who they are, etc.).
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    RW81233 wrote:
    Those same people often claim to be religious. The weird part, and this isn't always true, is that conservatives claim to listen to god but participate in things that wouldn't be considered very christian/catholic. Conversely, liberals, often disavow god or organized religion but behave in ways that would seem more consistent with what religion teaches (loving thy neighbor and respecting others for who they are, etc.).

    Your right. The most closed mind negative greedy people I know are all Christians who claim to live a Christian life..
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    RW81233 wrote:
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    RW81233 wrote:
    Here we'd rather throw money willy nilly into "charter schools" but not actually reward teachers who promote learning.


    We can't promote good teachers because of the teachers union.

    Have you seen Waiting for Superman?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/
    Yeah I've seen waiting for superman - it brought up some decent points. You are also right that there should be some sort of reward system for excellence in teaching. However, as another poster mentioned some of the problems we have in education are not teacher based, but rather the products of the contexts from which students are emerging from. At the same time we have this unfounded hatred for unions in this country that makes little sense. Unions, in general, look out for the best interests of the workers (which many of us are)...I don't get why we don't like them in this country.

    I agree for the most part.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    blueandwhite wrote:
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    What about the Health Care Bill?

    Again, speaking from an outsider's POV; that doesn't seem to be all that popular down there either.


    Alright cool, thanks for the input. It's always interesting to see what folks in other countries think about things going on in the states.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    It's a nation of me first and the give me give me

    "So it is, so it's always been."
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,622
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Perhaps the problem isn't always the schools or teachers (whether private or public), but instead the parenting of children which instill kids with the necessary attention and morals to succeed. Look around our nation, that's what has changed most and the root cause of why our education system has been on the decline...but instead of addressing that, we think we can throw money at the problem and it obviously doesn't work.

    What, in regard to parenting, has changed over time that's effected education. You're saying less attention at home and moral decline?
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