For the record, I have been a fan of this band since the very beginning, and first joined the fan club in early 1992. I have been seeing this band since I was 13 in 1993 (and only cause Lolla was rained out the 2nd day at Jones Beach in '92) and I fucking love them. I've seen PJ in 20 countries, and I love them, but I'm fucking done. This is what I read when I sort through Kelly's posts.... Kick me out of the Ten Club... whatever, but I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. If I wasn't so sick of the bullshit I'd keep my mouth shut.
"we have sought out the best ticketing company that we could find"
but we haven't tried MusicToday or ArtistArena. Instead, we went with the cheapest company possible, because it worked for Paul McCartney who sells tickets for 4x as much as we do and has an audience of 40-70 year olds and is therefore the same as us. Oh and Phish and DMB aren't popular outside the US, so the fact that Music Today has been successfully handling their shows in the US (where they are just as popular, if not more so than Pearl Jam is in Europe) means that they are a bad example
"their track record and history is/was outstanding for comparable artist"
Unless you're talking about Dave Matthews Band and Phish, who have been doing this whole thing better than us for 15 years. Then you're talking about people like Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen, who we think we're comparable to, but aren't even fucking remotely close.
"don't blame you.. we all feel the same way. of course we are working on the perfect system.. any ideas? send them along"
Again, unless you're sending along Music Today, who never fucks up, but charges us an extra .02 cents per ticket, and there's no fucking way Ed will give in to that fascist bullshit.
"we are dealing with a public on sale following our pre-sale in a very short window…. our fan club pre-sales are not very popular with promoters and therefore there is not a lot of help offered. one of the main reasons… is that SOME ..NOT ALL promoters would love to sell our fan club tickets at a very high price….. this is how pj has been abe to avoid widespread scalping. our goal has always been to get you .. the loyal pj fan the best of anything we have to offer at the best price possible."
Unless, of course, you mean our limited edition merchandise, which we know we don't produce enough of, and have no problem with you paying $1000 for a $75 backpack which could easily have made 250 more of. Oh, and we pay MSG and it sells out in 30 seconds? We know ticket brokers own the regular MSG ticketing system, but whatever man, not my fuckin' problem.
"with all due respect... phish nor dmb are not big sellers outside the US... where our problems lie today."
Again, we think we are bigger than Phish and DMB, despite the fact that their tours make more money per show than ours.
"we cannot announce everything at once because we don't alway know what we are doing … once we get through routing, venues, time period , personal schedules.. we move on to the next.. this band has never planned very far ahead.. thus keeping it real and fresh always.. and not one big treadmill obligation…."
We only claim to plan far ahead when we are talking about how much we care about fans in a certain city to mollycoddle them. In reality, we only give a fuck about where we can make the biggest profit. HAHAHAHAH FUCK YOU SOUTH!
"most of those are Ticketmaster fan clubs. Ticketmaster is owned by Live Nation. nothing wrong with that, but just so you know. our goal was to keep Ten Club independent. we felt there were advantages to that. do these other fan clubs you mention really never have ticketing problems?"
Ten Club is so independent that you save the same amount of money of fees through our fan club as the "Ticketmaster fan clubs" WE ARE DOING YOU A FAVOR YOU FUCKING INGRATES.
"let me try again...i can tell I either missed the point of this question or didn't answer it clearly. this is an industry standard, not something specific to the way i do it. there are some cities where i think we might be able to play more than one show, but I don't assume that until after we put the first show up for sale, and we see what the demand is. (there are exceptions to this rule...of course...there are some cities where we know for sure there will be demand for multiple shows so we put them both up at once. but more often i am making the decision in real time.) if the first show sells out and it seems like there is demand for a second show, i will approve for another show to go on sale right after the first one sells out or looks like it is going to.
from now on, we can post on the ten club site right when we approve for another show to be added so that you guys know."
So what I'm saying is that in the past when we've done the exact same fucking thing in cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Seattle where we've never once failed to sell out a show is... we just never know.
Phish and DMB are nowhere near as popular in Europe as Pearl Jam, fact!
You conveniently left out the Foo Fighters who could be classed as a similar act in stature to PJ with fans of a similar age. Their tours are probably bigger these days, I think that's a huge factor here, PJ just don't play enough shows to satisfy demand.
Phish and DMB's popularity in Europe has nothing to do with it. The point is that in the US they are immensely popular and have ticket systems that are smooth and successful. The demand for Phish's NYE shows are greater than any PJ does, and yet they are able to do a smooth onsale for it. Obviously the lottery system would kill PJ fans that are used to getting everything they want, but it's a better way of handling demand than having people spend three days TRYING for tickets, and some still getting shut out.
I didn't conveniently leave out the Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighters have an smooth ticketing system as well, so I don't really see how that would do anything to bolster anything Kelly said.
For the record, I have been a fan of this band since the very beginning, and first joined the fan club in early 1992. I have been seeing this band since I was 13 in 1993 (and only cause Lolla was rained out the 2nd day at Jones Beach in '92) and I fucking love them. I've seen PJ in 20 countries, and I love them, but I'm fucking done. This is what I read when I sort through Kelly's posts.... Kick me out of the Ten Club... whatever, but I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. If I wasn't so sick of the bullshit I'd keep my mouth shut.
"we have sought out the best ticketing company that we could find"
but we haven't tried MusicToday or ArtistArena. Instead, we went with the cheapest company possible, because it worked for Paul McCartney who sells tickets for 4x as much as we do and has an audience of 40-70 year olds and is therefore the same as us. Oh and Phish and DMB aren't popular outside the US, so the fact that Music Today has been successfully handling their shows in the US (where they are just as popular, if not more so than Pearl Jam is in Europe) means that they are a bad example
"their track record and history is/was outstanding for comparable artist"
Unless you're talking about Dave Matthews Band and Phish, who have been doing this whole thing better than us for 15 years. Then you're talking about people like Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen, who we think we're comparable to, but aren't even fucking remotely close.
"don't blame you.. we all feel the same way. of course we are working on the perfect system.. any ideas? send them along"
Again, unless you're sending along Music Today, who never fucks up, but charges us an extra .02 cents per ticket, and there's no fucking way Ed will give in to that fascist bullshit.
"we are dealing with a public on sale following our pre-sale in a very short window…. our fan club pre-sales are not very popular with promoters and therefore there is not a lot of help offered. one of the main reasons… is that SOME ..NOT ALL promoters would love to sell our fan club tickets at a very high price….. this is how pj has been abe to avoid widespread scalping. our goal has always been to get you .. the loyal pj fan the best of anything we have to offer at the best price possible."
Unless, of course, you mean our limited edition merchandise, which we know we don't produce enough of, and have no problem with you paying $1000 for a $75 backpack which could easily have made 250 more of. Oh, and we pay MSG and it sells out in 30 seconds? We know ticket brokers own the regular MSG ticketing system, but whatever man, not my fuckin' problem.
"with all due respect... phish nor dmb are not big sellers outside the US... where our problems lie today."
Again, we think we are bigger than Phish and DMB, despite the fact that their tours make more money per show than ours.
"we cannot announce everything at once because we don't alway know what we are doing … once we get through routing, venues, time period , personal schedules.. we move on to the next.. this band has never planned very far ahead.. thus keeping it real and fresh always.. and not one big treadmill obligation…."
We only claim to plan far ahead when we are talking about how much we care about fans in a certain city to mollycoddle them. In reality, we only give a fuck about where we can make the biggest profit. HAHAHAHAH FUCK YOU SOUTH!
"most of those are Ticketmaster fan clubs. Ticketmaster is owned by Live Nation. nothing wrong with that, but just so you know. our goal was to keep Ten Club independent. we felt there were advantages to that. do these other fan clubs you mention really never have ticketing problems?"
Ten Club is so independent that you save the same amount of money of fees through our fan club as the "Ticketmaster fan clubs" WE ARE DOING YOU A FAVOR YOU FUCKING INGRATES.
"let me try again...i can tell I either missed the point of this question or didn't answer it clearly. this is an industry standard, not something specific to the way i do it. there are some cities where i think we might be able to play more than one show, but I don't assume that until after we put the first show up for sale, and we see what the demand is. (there are exceptions to this rule...of course...there are some cities where we know for sure there will be demand for multiple shows so we put them both up at once. but more often i am making the decision in real time.) if the first show sells out and it seems like there is demand for a second show, i will approve for another show to go on sale right after the first one sells out or looks like it is going to.
from now on, we can post on the ten club site right when we approve for another show to be added so that you guys know."
So what I'm saying is that in the past when we've done the exact same fucking thing in cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Seattle where we've never once failed to sell out a show is... we just never know.
Phish and DMB are nowhere near as popular in Europe as Pearl Jam, fact!
You conveniently left out the Foo Fighters who could be classed as a similar act in stature to PJ with fans of a similar age. Their tours are probably bigger these days, I think that's a huge factor here, PJ just don't play enough shows to satisfy demand.
Phish and DMB's popularity in Europe has nothing to do with it. The point is that in the US they are immensely popular and have ticket systems that are smooth and successful. The demand for Phish's NYE shows are greater than any PJ does, and yet they are able to do a smooth onsale for it. Obviously the lottery system would kill PJ fans that are used to getting everything they want, but it's a better way of handling demand than having people spend three days TRYING for tickets, and some still getting shut out.
I didn't conveniently leave out the Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighters have an smooth ticketing system as well, so I don't really see how that would do anything to bolster anything Kelly said.
phish fans are more exreme than pearl jam fans, they will line up 3 days in advance at the msg ticket office for the hopes of a cancellation for the new years eve show. however, the other 3 shows did sell out but you can easily purchase a ticket on sites we can't talk about here for a very low price. the one show you metnion on new years eve is the show to go (as i've been to 2 nye phish shows at msg) but any msg show for pj is comparable.
phish fans are more exreme than pearl jam fans, they will line up 3 days in advance at the msg ticket office for the hopes of a cancellation for the new years eve show. however, the other 3 shows did sell out but you can easily purchase a ticket on sites we can't talk about here for a very low price. the one show you metnion on new years eve is the show to go (as i've been to 2 nye phish shows at msg) but any msg show for pj is comparable.
Really dude? Cause I know myself and about 400 others slept outside of Tower Records in 2006 for an Irving Plaza ticket... and then we slept at Irving Plaza to get on the rail.
I wonder if the promoters are launching denial of service attacks so they can get the 10club tickets back to sell at retai prices?
This is absolutely not out of the question. After all, during the online sale the "servers were humming along".
The Conspricy Theorist in me would say :arrow: The faceless corporate juggernaut of power and greed aka The Machine prevented Pearl Jam from selling their own tickets to their own fans. There is smoke rising from the grassy knoll folks. Those David Lynchian old dudes that Stone was describing in the PJ20 movie during their ticketmaster court appearance sequence - THOSE guys are smirking in the smoke-filled back rooms. Down in the dark cavernous corridors - the mechanized depths of The Machine.
But the fact is that this possibility is just too real to ignore. As The Dude's logic would ask, look to those who have benefitted here...
Disclaimer: Absolutely no disrepect is meant in this post towards those that missed out on getting tickets. I feel your pain and hope that some how some way you get to at least 1 of your shows
~~~~~~~Vinyl For Sale (shipping costs in North America included)~~~~~~~ The Who - Phases Box Set. Ltd. Ed. All 9 studio albums w/ Moon (11 discs) $200 ^discogs entry link^ Peter Gabriel - Up 200 gram 'Classic Records' audiophile version. Sealed. $225 ^discogs entry link^ Van Halen - I 180 gram Remastered 'DCC Compact Classic' version. Ltd. Ed. (#53!). Sealed. $175 ^discogs entry link^ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why didn't any ask about the link between CrowdSurge and the 10C membership database server? I seem to remember during the PJ20 presale issues there was talk FROM 10C about issues with the programming of the membership database. That it was hanging when they were verifying 10C membership. Seems to me the quickest way for CrowdSource to verify 10C membership would be to talk to the 10C membership database, which may in fact be where the problem lies. Either there is a bug in the way the database is set up, or there is an issue with the link between the membership database and the ticket sales system.
I've seen mid-level companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on servers and video conferencing codecs, and then try to pass everything out of the office on a residential ADSL line. 1.5Mbps download, 384kbps upload. Doesn't work so well. The probably isn't the servers, it's the pipeline.
I wonder if the promoters are launching denial of service attacks so they can get the 10club tickets back to sell at retai prices?
This is absolutely not out of the question. After all, during the online sale the "servers were humming along".
The Conspricy Theorist in me would say :arrow: The faceless corporate juggernaut of power and greed aka The Machine prevented Pearl Jam from selling their own tickets to their own fans. There is smoke rising from the grassy knoll folks. Those David Lynchian old dudes that Stone was describing in the PJ20 movie during their ticketmaster court appearance sequence - THOSE guys are smirking in the smoke-filled back rooms. Down in the dark cavernous corridors - the mechanized depths of The Machine.
But the fact is that this possibility is just too real to ignore. As The Dude's logic would ask, look to those who have benefitted here...{quote]
This theory is pretty silly, no? "The Machine" waited until Pearl Jam was the least popular they'd ever been, and THEN decided to throw a wrench into their ability to sell tickets? It also doesn't make much sense. The tickets DO SELL at retail prices, and the service charges just wouldn't make this worthwhile. Say PJ has 5000 tickets to one of these shows (and that would be on the VERY high side), that's maybe $20K in service fees that TM would be making (though that number would of course be considerably less once you add in the expense of taking down the system as you suggest.) On a 10 show tour, we're talking about a max of $200K that TM would be losing out on. So, the idea is that a company that makes ~$750M a year in gross profit is taking the time and effort to sabotage PJ's onsale for $200K? I really can't buy into that one.
I would bet... that they were humming along cuz it's a software issue or something... 200 people on here and the forum crashes. Can't be their servers not being able to handle it, but something else in their construction that fucks it up. Or?
But, my questuion is still how they (Kellys and ppl) came to the conclusion of Sabotage. He himself admits "they don't know", how did "we don't know" turn into Sabotage? The conclusion of "there must be someone else" feels like me to be denial, when they "don't have a clue" what it could be.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Why didn't any ask about the link between CrowdSurge and the 10C membership database server? I seem to remember during the PJ20 presale issues there was talk FROM 10C about issues with the programming of the membership database. That it was hanging when they were verifying 10C membership. Seems to me the quickest way for CrowdSource to verify 10C membership would be to talk to the 10C membership database, which may in fact be where the problem lies. Either there is a bug in the way the database is set up, or there is an issue with the link between the membership database and the ticket sales system.
I've seen mid-level companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on servers and video conferencing codecs, and then try to pass everything out of the office on a residential ADSL line. 1.5Mbps download, 384kbps upload. Doesn't work so well. The probably isn't the servers, it's the pipeline.
I did... No answer...
Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the Universe...
Why didn't any ask about the link between CrowdSurge and the 10C membership database server? I seem to remember during the PJ20 presale issues there was talk FROM 10C about issues with the programming of the membership database. That it was hanging when they were verifying 10C membership. Seems to me the quickest way for CrowdSource to verify 10C membership would be to talk to the 10C membership database, which may in fact be where the problem lies. Either there is a bug in the way the database is set up, or there is an issue with the link between the membership database and the ticket sales system.
I've seen mid-level companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on servers and video conferencing codecs, and then try to pass everything out of the office on a residential ADSL line. 1.5Mbps download, 384kbps upload. Doesn't work so well. The probably isn't the servers, it's the pipeline.
I did... No answer...
I would bet... that they were humming along cuz it's a software issue or something... 200 people on here and the forum crashes. Can't be their servers not being able to handle it, but something else in their construction that fucks it up. Or?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Thanks for this! I a curious about the Ten Club wristband thing for the seating tickets. I have a seating ticket to Stockholm. Maybe early entry for the soundcheck
Comments
Phish and DMB's popularity in Europe has nothing to do with it. The point is that in the US they are immensely popular and have ticket systems that are smooth and successful. The demand for Phish's NYE shows are greater than any PJ does, and yet they are able to do a smooth onsale for it. Obviously the lottery system would kill PJ fans that are used to getting everything they want, but it's a better way of handling demand than having people spend three days TRYING for tickets, and some still getting shut out.
I didn't conveniently leave out the Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighters have an smooth ticketing system as well, so I don't really see how that would do anything to bolster anything Kelly said.
Really dude? Cause I know myself and about 400 others slept outside of Tower Records in 2006 for an Irving Plaza ticket... and then we slept at Irving Plaza to get on the rail.
The Conspricy Theorist in me would say :arrow: The faceless corporate juggernaut of power and greed aka The Machine prevented Pearl Jam from selling their own tickets to their own fans. There is smoke rising from the grassy knoll folks. Those David Lynchian old dudes that Stone was describing in the PJ20 movie during their ticketmaster court appearance sequence - THOSE guys are smirking in the smoke-filled back rooms. Down in the dark cavernous corridors - the mechanized depths of The Machine.
But the fact is that this possibility is just too real to ignore. As The Dude's logic would ask, look to those who have benefitted here...
Disclaimer: Absolutely no disrepect is meant in this post towards those that missed out on getting tickets. I feel your pain and hope that some how some way you get to at least 1 of your shows
The Who - Phases Box Set. Ltd. Ed. All 9 studio albums w/ Moon (11 discs) $200
^discogs entry link^
Peter Gabriel - Up 200 gram 'Classic Records' audiophile version. Sealed. $225
^discogs entry link^
Van Halen - I 180 gram Remastered 'DCC Compact Classic' version. Ltd. Ed. (#53!). Sealed. $175
^discogs entry link^
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've seen mid-level companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on servers and video conferencing codecs, and then try to pass everything out of the office on a residential ADSL line. 1.5Mbps download, 384kbps upload. Doesn't work so well. The probably isn't the servers, it's the pipeline.
The Conspricy Theorist in me would say :arrow: The faceless corporate juggernaut of power and greed aka The Machine prevented Pearl Jam from selling their own tickets to their own fans. There is smoke rising from the grassy knoll folks. Those David Lynchian old dudes that Stone was describing in the PJ20 movie during their ticketmaster court appearance sequence - THOSE guys are smirking in the smoke-filled back rooms. Down in the dark cavernous corridors - the mechanized depths of The Machine.
But the fact is that this possibility is just too real to ignore. As The Dude's logic would ask, look to those who have benefitted here...{quote]
This theory is pretty silly, no? "The Machine" waited until Pearl Jam was the least popular they'd ever been, and THEN decided to throw a wrench into their ability to sell tickets? It also doesn't make much sense. The tickets DO SELL at retail prices, and the service charges just wouldn't make this worthwhile. Say PJ has 5000 tickets to one of these shows (and that would be on the VERY high side), that's maybe $20K in service fees that TM would be making (though that number would of course be considerably less once you add in the expense of taking down the system as you suggest.) On a 10 show tour, we're talking about a max of $200K that TM would be losing out on. So, the idea is that a company that makes ~$750M a year in gross profit is taking the time and effort to sabotage PJ's onsale for $200K? I really can't buy into that one.
But, my questuion is still how they (Kellys and ppl) came to the conclusion of Sabotage. He himself admits "they don't know", how did "we don't know" turn into Sabotage? The conclusion of "there must be someone else" feels like me to be denial, when they "don't have a clue" what it could be.
I did... No answer...
"...I changed by not changing at all..."