The Urban/Rural dichotomy of America

brianlux

Here a little bit of Americana Irony I've been mulling over in my head for a long time. Having been a restless type, I've lived in California, New York State, and Washington State- in cities, suburbs and rural no-wheres. Here's the thing that puzzles me. The more rural the place I've lived in, the more relatively polluted, trashed and abused it is. Yes, I know this is a huge generalization, but it has been my experience over the years. Right now I live in a town of about 12,000 people west of Sacramento, CA. Almost everybody here burns during the winter and way too many of those who heat with wood burn dirty. Same thing with yard vegetation. Instead of composting or chipping we get smouldering fires. The place makes me choke for months. Same thing for rural Oregon and Washington states. I lived in San Francisco for about 4 years and if everybody there burned like they do here it would make the place unlivable for anything but cockroaches. I've lived in a few rough city neighborhoods and for the most part, those places were better kept than the average rural dwellings. A friend of mine from the Bay Area used to call the trash heaps seen around many rural homes "Yard Art". Indeed. The rural areas I've lived in would be at least nice if not down right beautiful if it wasn't for the "Yard Art" and smokey fires (which often include noxious burning trash).

I'll never understand the existence of the the irony of this dichotomy.

DS1119

Uh oh. You didn't hit your head again did you? :P

brianlux

DS1119 wrote:

Uh oh. You didn't hit your head again did you? :P

Too serious a post or too off-the-wall? Busted on both counts!

I guess it's just that if I have to breath smoke at least it ought to make me feel good, right?

DS1119

brianlux wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Uh oh. You didn't hit your head again did you? :P

Too serious a post or too off-the-wall? Busted on both counts!

I guess it's just that if I have to breath smoke at least it ought to make me feel good, right?

No, I understand the post completely. Reminds me of conversations my buddies and I would have in college while sitting around a table smoking those funny cigarettes.

pakalolo

City folk just send their trash somewhere else to be burned or left to rot. So you have to pick it up and move it a long way geographically (truck emissions, factories to build the trucks etc) to be disposed of "properly." And if you are in the NE US, that electricity you are heating your house with is from a coal plant. There may have been far fewer people, but before electricity, people did burn (coal even) for heat in close proximity, and yeah it must have sucked.

For what its worth, I live in rural Oregon and it is against the law to burn household trash. I think people are getting smarter about what they burn, there's a lot less fires now than even 5 years ago (here anyway). But yeah, you don't qualify for local status until you have some yard art.

_

Having lived in both rural & urban areas, I've made the same observation. I think some of it has to do with lack of infrastructure, poverty, self-reliance, & independence.

As the previous poster pointed out, those who live in larger cities just have the infrastructure to not have to deal with their own waste; they ship it off to be someone else's problem. As you know, many rural areas don't have the same level of waste management infrastructure. They also frequently don't always have the same level of infrastructure to heat their homes or provide fire for cooking. So they have to be self-reliant and do things in more of "alternative" or old-fashioned way - they burn their trash & excess vegetation (and/or let it pile up), burn wood or even coal to heat their homes & cook, etc.

Also, I think many people live in rural areas because they'd rather be independent, self-reliant, off the grid, or whatever. They might not want to be reliant on city trash services. They might not want to have to pay taxes for waste management. And they might resist laws (or ideas) telling them how to burn, in the name of freedom or independence or resisting what they think is a liberal environmentalist agenda. Or maybe they're just old-fashioned & resist change.

Also, rural areas tend to be poorer than urban areas, and I think poor people are more prone to being resourceful and less wasteful by saving things that wealthier cultures might consider junk & throw away. I don't know the story, but I'm sure there's a big history & reason behind the junk yard art that is so popular in some rural areas - and I'd bet it has something to do with resourcefulness. Outside of "art" though, you make me think of all the complaints I hear about people who have broken down cars in their yards (as if that's necessarily a bad thing). Poor people save cars until they can afford to fix them. They're much less likely to waste a perfectly good car that just needs a new [whatever] just because they can't afford the part any time soon. I think the same goes for other "junk" too - and I don't necessarily think it's bad. Depending on the junk, one might even argue that it's more environmentally friendly. (But maybe this isn't what you were talking about.)

Go Beavers

pakalolo wrote:

City folk just send their trash somewhere else to be burned or left to rot. So you have to pick it up and move it a long way geographically (truck emissions, factories to build the trucks etc) to be disposed of "properly." And if you are in the NE US, that electricity you are heating your house with is from a coal plant. There may have been far fewer people, but before electricity, people did burn (coal even) for heat in close proximity, and yeah it must have sucked.

For what its worth, I live in rural Oregon and it is against the law to burn household trash. I think people are getting smarter about what they burn, there's a lot less fires now than even 5 years ago (here anyway). But yeah, you don't qualify for local status until you have some yard art.

I live in Oregon too. I just don't get the burning of the yard debris. Seeing that smoke drives me nuts because our air is really clear (central Oregon). Can't they take it to where us city folk take our yard debris?

brianlux

_ wrote:

Having lived in both rural & urban areas, I've made the same observation. I think some of it has to do with lack of infrastructure, poverty, self-reliance, & independence.

As the previous poster pointed out, those who live in larger cities just have the infrastructure to not have to deal with their own waste; they ship it off to be someone else's problem. As you know, many rural areas don't have the same level of waste management infrastructure. They also frequently don't always have the same level of infrastructure to heat their homes or provide fire for cooking. So they have to be self-reliant and do things in more of "alternative" or old-fashioned way - they burn their trash & excess vegetation (and/or let it pile up), burn wood or even coal to heat their homes & cook, etc.

Also, I think many people live in rural areas because they'd rather be independent, self-reliant, off the grid, or whatever. They might not want to be reliant on city trash services. They might not want to have to pay taxes for waste management. And they might resist laws (or ideas) telling them how to burn, in the name of freedom or independence or resisting what they think is a liberal environmentalist agenda. Or maybe they're just old-fashioned & resist change.

Also, rural areas tend to be poorer than urban areas, and I think poor people are more prone to being resourceful and less wasteful by saving things that wealthier cultures might consider junk & throw away. I don't know the story, but I'm sure there's a big history & reason behind the junk yard art that is so popular in some rural areas - and I'd bet it has something to do with resourcefulness. Outside of "art" though, you make me think of all the complaints I hear about people who have broken down cars in their yards (as if that's necessarily a bad thing). Poor people save cars until they can afford to fix them. They're much less likely to waste a perfectly good car that just needs a new [whatever] just because they can't afford the part any time soon. I think the same goes for other "junk" too - and I don't necessarily think it's bad. Depending on the junk, one might even argue that it's more environmentally friendly. (But maybe this isn't what you were talking about.)

A well worded and excellent summation. I understand the reasons for some of the items being saved and I understand the difficulty of disposal in rural areas. I've lived rurally and I've been poor but being poor never seemed like an excuse for me to be messy, especially messy in a way that becomes an eye sore for others. Having lived for a time below the poverty line myself I can appreciate being resourceful and frugal. I still am. But what I'm referring is situations where someone turns their property into a trash heap as opposed to a storage space.

I also do not understand why anyone would pollute the air with noxious smoke. A small hot fire will warm a house as well and efficiently as a smouldering fire. Yard debris can be composted and made into usable soil. If outdoor burning is necessary, again, small hot fires consisting of dried vegetation burn more cleanly than large smouldering piles of green limbs and leaves.

I would never slight anyone for being poor, but I also don't cut anyone much slack for leaving eye sores visible in a neighborhood or for polluting the air. It just doesn't make sense. In many cases I'm guessing the problem is due to lack of education.

blackredyellow

I think it's just a matter of the size/scope of it. I've lived in both rural and urban environments, and have seem people do things in rural settings that amaze me... Burning tires, dumping used motor oil, etc... I think that for those people it just seems like one person doing something like that in this big area is not really a big deal. But if the hundreds of people in a city block, or tens of people on a suburban street did that, it would immediately be a disturbing sight.

RKCNDY

_ wrote:

Also, I think many people live in rural areas because they'd rather be independent, self-reliant, off the grid, or whatever. They might not want to be reliant on city trash services. They might not want to have to pay taxes for waste management. And they might resist laws (or ideas) telling them how to burn, in the name of freedom or independence or resisting what they think is a liberal environmentalist agenda. Or maybe they're just old-fashioned & resist change.

Also, rural areas tend to be poorer than urban areas, and I think poor people are more prone to being resourceful and less wasteful by saving things that wealthier cultures might consider junk & throw away. I don't know the story, but I'm sure there's a big history & reason behind the junk yard art that is so popular in some rural areas - and I'd bet it has something to do with resourcefulness.

Outside of "art" though, you make me think of all the complaints I hear about people who have broken down cars in their yards (as if that's necessarily a bad thing). Poor people save cars until they can afford to fix them. They're much less likely to waste a perfectly good car that just needs a new [whatever] just because they can't afford the part any time soon. I think the same goes for other "junk" too - and I don't necessarily think it's bad. Depending on the junk, one might even argue that it's more environmentally friendly. (But maybe this isn't what you were talking about.)

First paragraph- I agree with, in regards to some people I know. In Montana, some people are like this, but usually it is because they have no trash pick-up since they live so far away and/or are too lazy to go to the dump. I am surprised at the type of trash they burn...aluminum, plastic, etc.

Second paragraph-I'm half and half. Currently I live in a shit rural town north of Seattle. (Mr. RK's choice to move here, not mine :x I absolutely hate living here, it's 'dirty')Ok, we got annexed into the city, but that was just a few years ago. We have recycling, food waste compost (the city picks up or food and composts it), and regular trash. There are STILL people who let their trash collect in their garage, and sit there, or they put their unwanted items on the front lawn and let people take them away. I worked with a woman who lives a few blocks away, she would take her hazardous waste trash to 'the rez' because their dump was not regulated to the same environmental standards that the county run landfills are. I tried explaining to her that the county landfill will take paint, motor oil, TVs, car batteries, etc for FREE and recycle it. She told me, 'I don't wanna wait in that line, there's no line at the rez'. It makes me sick knowing that she's teaching her kids it's 'ok' to dump toxic things into the earth, and not care...to take the easy way out.

I also think it has to do with a lack of education/information. I went to Montana for the summer a few years ago, and went to a fair. While walking around I noticed a really odd sight...an overflowing trash can filled with beer bottles, beer cans, soda cans etc and a RECYCLING bin right next to it...it was empty. I thought "WTF?!?! the recycling bin is right next to it! is it that hard to toss the beer can into a different bin?" I talked to Mr. RK about it (he grew up there), he said that lots of people who live in small town have never been farther than 100 miles out of that town, so that small town is all they know. They don't know there is a 'bigger world' out there, that there is so much more to see/experience/do etc. I think that's really sad.

Last paragraph, that's my dad...when I was growing up, he must have had 8 different cars. Always fixing them up...buying anything to see if he could fix it up....like my first turntable. My mother had bought a new one, and I told him she wouldn't let me play my records on it (they were divorced). So, my father went to some garage sales, and found a portable turntable, it was broken, but he fixed it up and gave it to me so I could play my records. I loved that thing so much! I'd do anything to get it back...my mother threw it away.

brianlux

RKCNDY wrote:

I went to Montana for the summer a few years ago, and went to a fair. While walking around I noticed a really odd sight...an overflowing trash can filled with beer bottles, beer cans, soda cans etc and a RECYCLING bin right next to it...it was empty. I thought "WTF?!?! the recycling bin is right next to it! is it that hard to toss the beer can into a different bin?"

Same thing at the post office where I get my mail. There are two bins on either side of a table in the lobby- one for trash and one for recycling any and all paper. I've often seen people standing near the recycling bin sorting their mail and then watch them move over to the trash bin and dump their unwanted mail- including generic ads papers etc.- in the trash instead of recycling it. Like you said, WTF!!?! Every week I pull out several pounds of newspapers (I leave the personal mail alone) from the trash bin and stuff them in the recycling bin.

_

brianlux wrote:

In many cases I'm guessing the problem is due to lack of education.

I think that has a lot to do with it - especially regarding fires.

_

RKCNDY wrote:

First paragraph- I agree with, in regards to some people I know. In Montana, some people are like this, but usually it is because they have no trash pick-up since they live so far away and/or are too lazy to go to the dump. I am surprised at the type of trash they burn...aluminum, plastic, etc.

Second paragraph-I'm half and half. Currently I live in a shit rural town north of Seattle. (Mr. RK's choice to move here, not mine :x I absolutely hate living here, it's 'dirty')Ok, we got annexed into the city, but that was just a few years ago. We have recycling, food waste compost (the city picks up or food and composts it), and regular trash. There are STILL people who let their trash collect in their garage, and sit there, or they put their unwanted items on the front lawn and let people take them away. I worked with a woman who lives a few blocks away, she would take her hazardous waste trash to 'the rez' because their dump was not regulated to the same environmental standards that the county run landfills are. I tried explaining to her that the county landfill will take paint, motor oil, TVs, car batteries, etc for FREE and recycle it. She told me, 'I don't wanna wait in that line, there's no line at the rez'. It makes me sick knowing that she's teaching her kids it's 'ok' to dump toxic things into the earth, and not care...to take the easy way out.

I also think it has to do with a lack of education/information. I went to Montana for the summer a few years ago, and went to a fair. While walking around I noticed a really odd sight...an overflowing trash can filled with beer bottles, beer cans, soda cans etc and a RECYCLING bin right next to it...it was empty. I thought "WTF?!?! the recycling bin is right next to it! is it that hard to toss the beer can into a different bin?" I talked to Mr. RK about it (he grew up there), he said that lots of people who live in small town have never been farther than 100 miles out of that town, so that small town is all they know. They don't know there is a 'bigger world' out there, that there is so much more to see/experience/do etc. I think that's really sad.

Last paragraph, that's my dad...when I was growing up, he must have had 8 different cars. Always fixing them up...buying anything to see if he could fix it up....like my first turntable. My mother had bought a new one, and I told him she wouldn't let me play my records on it (they were divorced). So, my father went to some garage sales, and found a portable turntable, it was broken, but he fixed it up and gave it to me so I could play my records. I loved that thing so much! I'd do anything to get it back...my mother threw it away.

Wow, you have recycling and food waste compost where you live?! I live in the largest city in my state and I still don't have recycling. The city recycles and people who live in houses can supposedly leave their recyclables out with the trash for pick-up, but people who live in apartments or condos or other places that have dumpsters instead of individual trash pick-up generally don't have recycling bins. We have to save up our recyclables and drive them across town. I'm the only one I know of in my neighborhood who does that. And I've never even heard of city-run food waste compost!

When it comes to people throwing away recyclables right next to recycle bins, I think it's just an oversight in a culture that doesn't really think much about recycling. Even where I work, where they're pretty big on recycling relative to most the city/state, people just don't think to use the recycle bins - or they fill them with trash. Either way, they're just not thinking because, probably because it's not part of the culture.

Unfortunately, what I think IS part of the general culture of our nation (rural or urban) is the idea that we can fuck over the minorities like Native Americans if it benefits us in any way. And that's an institutionalized idea. So I'm not surprised by your friend who thinks nothing of dumping harmful waste on the rez. :(

brianlux

_ wrote:

Unfortunately, what I think IS part of the general culture of our nation (rural or urban) is the idea that we can fuck over the minorities like Native Americans if it benefits us in any way. And that's an institutionalized idea. So I'm not surprised by your friend who thinks nothing of dumping harmful waste on the rez. :(

How true- well said!