The Bible and sexuality
JonnyPistachio
Florida Posts: 10,219
This might not be for the easily offended. I found this article interesting.
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/23697.htm
its a bit long, but I pasted a few highlights below. This kind of thing always makes me ponder whether or not the Bible should be taken literally from cover to cover by Christians, or whether or not some sections can be ignored. Can the Bible be considered outdated one day?
virtually all modern readers would agree with the Bible in rejecting:
incest
rape
adultery
intercourse with animals
But we disagree with the Bible on most other sexual mores. The Bible condemned the following behaviors which we generally allow:
intercourse during menstruation
celibacy
exogamy (marriage with non-Jews)
naming sexual organs
nudity (under certain conditions)
masturbation (some Christians still condemn this)
birth control (some Christians still forbid this)
And the bible regarded semen and menstrual blood as unclean, which most of us do not.
Likewise, the bible permitted behaviors that we today condemn:
prostitution
polygamy
levirate marriage
sex with slaves
concubinage
treatment of women as property
very early marriage (for the girl, age 11-13)
and:
"The very notion of a “sex ethic” reflects the materialism and splitness of modern life, in which we increasingly define our identity sexually. Sexuality cannot be separated off from the rest of life. No sex act is “ethical” in and of itself, without reference to the rest of a person’s life, the patterns of the culture, the special circumstances faced, and the will of God. What we have are simply sexual mores, which change, sometimes with startling rapidity, creating bewildering dilemmas. Just within one lifetime we have witness the shift from the ideal of preserving one’s virginity until marriage, to couples living together for several years before getting married. The response of many Christians is merely to long for the hypocrisies of an earlier era.
I agree that rules and norms are necessary: that is what sexual mores are. But rules and norms also tend to be impressed into the service of the Domination System, and to serve as a form of crowd control rather than to enhance the fullness of human potential. So we must critique the sexual mores of any given time and clime by the love ethic exemplified by Jesus. Such a love ethic is non-exploitive (hence, no sexual exploitation of children, no using of another to their loss), it does not dominate (hence, no patriarchal treatment of women as chattel), it is responsible, mutual, caring, and loving. Augustine already dealt with this is his inspired phrase, “Love God, and do as you please.”
Our moral task, then, is to apply Jesus’ love ethic to whatever sexual mores are prevalent in a given culture. This doesn’t mean everything goes. It means that everything is to be critiqued by Jesus’ love commandment. We might address younger teens, not with laws and commandments whose violation is a sin, but rather with the sad experiences of so many of our own children who find too much early sexual intimacy overwhelming, and who react by voluntary celibacy and even the refusal to date. We can offer reasons, not empty and unenforceable orders. We can challenge both gays and straights to question their behaviors in the light of love and the requirements of fidelity, honesty, responsibility, and genuine concern for the best interests of the other and of society as a whole.
Christian morality, after all, is not an iron chastity belt for repressing urges, but a way of expressing the integrity of our relationship with God. It is the attempt to discover a manner of living that is consistent with who God created us to be. For those of same-sex orientation, as for heterosexuals, being moral means rejecting sexual mores that violate their own integrity and that of others, and attempting to discover what it would mean to live by the love ethic of Jesus.
Morton Kelsey goes so far as to argue that homosexual orientation has nothing to do with morality, any more than left-handedness does. It is simply the way some people’s sexuality is configured. Morality enters the picture when that pre-disposition is enacted. If we saw it as a God-given-gift to those for whom it is normal, we could get beyond the acrimony and brutality that have so often characterized the unchristian behavior of Christians toward gays.
Approached from the point of view of love, rather than that of law, the issue is at once transformed. Now the question is not “What is permitted?” but rather “What does it mean to love my homosexual neighbor?” Approached from the point of view of faith rather than of works, the question ceases to be “What constitutes a broach of divine law in the sexual realm?” and becomes instead “What constitutes obedience to the God revealed in the cosmic lover, Jesus Christ?” Approached from the point of view of the Spirit of the rather than of the letter, the question ceases to be “What does Scripture command?” and becomes “What is the Word that the Spirit speaks to the churches now, in the light of Scripture, tradition, theology, psychology, genetics, anthropology, and biology?” We can’t continue to build ethics on the basis of bad science."
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/23697.htm
its a bit long, but I pasted a few highlights below. This kind of thing always makes me ponder whether or not the Bible should be taken literally from cover to cover by Christians, or whether or not some sections can be ignored. Can the Bible be considered outdated one day?
virtually all modern readers would agree with the Bible in rejecting:
incest
rape
adultery
intercourse with animals
But we disagree with the Bible on most other sexual mores. The Bible condemned the following behaviors which we generally allow:
intercourse during menstruation
celibacy
exogamy (marriage with non-Jews)
naming sexual organs
nudity (under certain conditions)
masturbation (some Christians still condemn this)
birth control (some Christians still forbid this)
And the bible regarded semen and menstrual blood as unclean, which most of us do not.
Likewise, the bible permitted behaviors that we today condemn:
prostitution
polygamy
levirate marriage
sex with slaves
concubinage
treatment of women as property
very early marriage (for the girl, age 11-13)
and:
"The very notion of a “sex ethic” reflects the materialism and splitness of modern life, in which we increasingly define our identity sexually. Sexuality cannot be separated off from the rest of life. No sex act is “ethical” in and of itself, without reference to the rest of a person’s life, the patterns of the culture, the special circumstances faced, and the will of God. What we have are simply sexual mores, which change, sometimes with startling rapidity, creating bewildering dilemmas. Just within one lifetime we have witness the shift from the ideal of preserving one’s virginity until marriage, to couples living together for several years before getting married. The response of many Christians is merely to long for the hypocrisies of an earlier era.
I agree that rules and norms are necessary: that is what sexual mores are. But rules and norms also tend to be impressed into the service of the Domination System, and to serve as a form of crowd control rather than to enhance the fullness of human potential. So we must critique the sexual mores of any given time and clime by the love ethic exemplified by Jesus. Such a love ethic is non-exploitive (hence, no sexual exploitation of children, no using of another to their loss), it does not dominate (hence, no patriarchal treatment of women as chattel), it is responsible, mutual, caring, and loving. Augustine already dealt with this is his inspired phrase, “Love God, and do as you please.”
Our moral task, then, is to apply Jesus’ love ethic to whatever sexual mores are prevalent in a given culture. This doesn’t mean everything goes. It means that everything is to be critiqued by Jesus’ love commandment. We might address younger teens, not with laws and commandments whose violation is a sin, but rather with the sad experiences of so many of our own children who find too much early sexual intimacy overwhelming, and who react by voluntary celibacy and even the refusal to date. We can offer reasons, not empty and unenforceable orders. We can challenge both gays and straights to question their behaviors in the light of love and the requirements of fidelity, honesty, responsibility, and genuine concern for the best interests of the other and of society as a whole.
Christian morality, after all, is not an iron chastity belt for repressing urges, but a way of expressing the integrity of our relationship with God. It is the attempt to discover a manner of living that is consistent with who God created us to be. For those of same-sex orientation, as for heterosexuals, being moral means rejecting sexual mores that violate their own integrity and that of others, and attempting to discover what it would mean to live by the love ethic of Jesus.
Morton Kelsey goes so far as to argue that homosexual orientation has nothing to do with morality, any more than left-handedness does. It is simply the way some people’s sexuality is configured. Morality enters the picture when that pre-disposition is enacted. If we saw it as a God-given-gift to those for whom it is normal, we could get beyond the acrimony and brutality that have so often characterized the unchristian behavior of Christians toward gays.
Approached from the point of view of love, rather than that of law, the issue is at once transformed. Now the question is not “What is permitted?” but rather “What does it mean to love my homosexual neighbor?” Approached from the point of view of faith rather than of works, the question ceases to be “What constitutes a broach of divine law in the sexual realm?” and becomes instead “What constitutes obedience to the God revealed in the cosmic lover, Jesus Christ?” Approached from the point of view of the Spirit of the rather than of the letter, the question ceases to be “What does Scripture command?” and becomes “What is the Word that the Spirit speaks to the churches now, in the light of Scripture, tradition, theology, psychology, genetics, anthropology, and biology?” We can’t continue to build ethics on the basis of bad science."
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Comments
Godfather.
Here is your Christian Report card: D-
Purposes of sex and religion... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierodule (psstt... something the Catholic Church hides) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos and the sexual enslavement of the documented Christ bloodlines, gnosticism and krishna/christ conciousness, and the Divine Feminine. I would love to explain the connections more. Contact me on this theory! HA!
Christian Hypocrites and Liars.
either you follow it, or you don't. to me there is no in between.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Sexual freedom is different and does not constitute the centuries of perpetuation in the mask of slavery by society. People as objects. People as property. People as disposable. Objects to be used for instant gratification and tossed away.
I never inflict my personal beliefs upon people I meet.
Its my opinion about the topic.
PS lol... thanks shawshank
Its not about the person. Its about the institutions that society has set up around the person that has caused the myriad of social ills. Like a ripple in a pond.
I'm not talking about street walkers or people forced into the work through circumstance, which would be greatly reduced if it was legalised (with obviously age and various other restrictions) and they had a valid and recognized workers union). But those who are happy with their chosen path asa sex worker don't view themselves as slaves or property.
I don't know any sex trade workers and I'm no expert on the subject, so this question is posed with the utmost of sincerity and no sarcasm: I have serious doubts that someone would choose to be a prostitute and be proud about it and want to remain in that profession if they had other, equally-paying opportunities. Do you know or know of anyone who is actually like this?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm not meaning to criticize anyone's ignorance because if you don't know anyone why would you know anything more. But has it occured (and really just a question no a judgement) to any of you who do see prostitution as a negative that as you don't know anyone involved you might not be qualified to cast jusgement over them.
Just in case anyone is interested in learning something , the Scarlet Alliance is Australias' Sex Workers Association of which my afore mentioned friends are all members....'
Taken from their mission statement:
Aims and Objectives
1.To promote the civil rights of past and present sex workers, including Sex Workers living with HIV/AIDS, and to work towards ending all forms of discrimination against them;
2.To lobby for legislative and administrative frameworks which do not discriminate against prostitutes;
3.To challenge any government at any time when and where it implements legislation and/or law enforcement discriminatory and repressive to the rights and autonomy of prostitutes;
4.To actively work towards guaranteeing the rights of all sex workers to optimum Occupational Health and Safety provisions that will promote conditions where safer sex and general health knowledge can be converted to safe working practices, and to furthermore, challenge any legislation, policy or process which does not so promote the rights of the worker;
5.To strive to eradicate prostitute stereotypes in the popular consciousness and to communicate the ideas, opinions and aspirations of past and present sex workers;
6.To work to put an end to Australia’s involvement in 1st world exploitation of indigenous and 3rd world people through sexual violence and trade.
7.To continue to assist in the development of strong representative community based organisations of sex workers in the Asia and Pacific Region, empowered to respond to the HIV/AIDS crisis.
The Scarlet Alliance also supports the World Charter for Prostitutes Rights
And if anyone is interested their website is www.scareletalliance.org.au - these are not people who wish they were doing other work
I wish i could get paid for it
1) just to clarify, I'm sure they have other options, but do they have other options with equal pay? If they could do a different job with same pay (which means obviously better working condtions and less risk), would they? Or do they honestly just enjoy it for the job, no matter what the pay is?
2) are these contributing members of society, or are they drug addicts that have children and tend to neglect them?
As you said, I don't know any prostitutes, so I can't say I know a lot about the subject. Only what I read and see in the news, which is obviously all the arrests and murders and overdoses. I have never once seen a positive side to it (other than folks being able to satsify their basest needs without rejection), so I'd be interested to hear it if SOCIETAL positives (not PERSONAL ones) exist.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
How is this a fair question? I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find someone who wouldnt have some other work in mind for the same pay.....me.......I would play hockey
I don't know if I can argue that sociatal benifits come as direct result of prostitution but I don't think there are necessarily these benifits from a lot of different careers however my friend who are involved do contribute to society. Beyond their own activism a lot of them are involved in local politics and other community programs and one who is involved in legal aid for those who need it. I really wish you could meet some of these people because you wouldn't pick them for what they do. They are just like any number of ordinary people who you know. The have partners and they go to football games or to the movies... it is just a job not something that determines the person that youy are.
as for whether they could do something equally paying I don't know what any of my friends (apart from the ones I work with) earn - none of my business and I also don't mind dignins' point. But I do have a friend who I know adores his work as a sex worker - because he says so often - and he's a happy guy he has a nice house, a loving partner with a 'straight' job and has been involved in short film projects trying to reove the negative view that a lot of people have of sex workers (If I can find the film I'll post it)
Also these people who are fully functioning are much safer... they have a private client list and see mainly only referrals outside of this, they don't tend to work in streets cars or whatever.
Have you noticed that murders, arrests and whatever are interesting and sell newspapers... whether its sex workers or not?of course that is what you are hearing about
My meaning was not "what would be their dream job?", but do they do the work because they love it, or do they do it simply for the lifestyle/paycheck?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm not quite sure what all the hostility is about, I'm asking questions because of a self-admitted lack of knowledge of the subject. Of course papers sell for that stuff, I was simply stating that, so far, that was my only reference point for that type of lifesytle. I'm not sure where you made it understood that your friends were not druggies, that's why I asked. I think I'm going to leave this thread now, as it seems that no level of productive discussion, only defensive griping. Too bad, I was actually non-judgmental and trying to learn.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Again apologize