Ron Paul and the Federal student loan

Go Beavers

Sludge Factory wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

it is the same unproven hypothesis that called the housing bubble as well.

Students are underwater. Huge amounts of debt when you get out of school are good for no one except the people who own the loans. If we see the same growth in costs for the next 30 years, that we saw the last 30, adjusted for inflation, tuition at a 4 year institution will cost (through quick rudimentary math) 96000... and that is in today's dollars. I realize that things can change and trends won't continue at that rate...but I am sure people thought the same thing 30 years ago...it is a terrifying prospect to think that tuition may even go up 100 percent in 30 years and that is not even close to what happened during the last 30
numbers from here:
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76

so you may call it unproven, what I call it is government backed loans that allow tuition costs to rise through guaranteed money.

we can either try to get out from under the bubble and possible harm a few, or we can stay in the bubble, let it burst, and harm everyone

I see your point comparing the housing bubble to the student loan issue, but they are two different things. Housing was going up but essentially there wasn't anything to support it because basically the real estate market is a racket. Tuition costs are going up due to different factors, one includes improvement in facilities, staying on top of the latest in research, and maintaining competitive salaries. I can sell my house for double what I paid for it and the only thing done to it is 10 years of wear and tear and that I kept the grass from dying.

Does being able to sell your house double from what you paid for it take into account the inflation on the dollar that has occurred in those 10 years? I would argue that the true value you would get is not double of what you paid 10 years ago due to the devaluation of the dollar. I think I might be missing your point with this though. Is your point with this statement to just back up your earlier statement on the houseing market being a racket?[/quote]

That was pretty much my point. The increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support. Education does, and it will always carry value with individuals, society, and employers, etc.

mikepegg44

Go Beavers wrote:

That was pretty much my point. The increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support. Education does, and it will always carry value with individuals, society, and employers, etc.

just like education, the reason it has gone up is the free flow of credit...a government backed program to get people money that probably shouldn't have had it. That easy loan process inflated demand, which increased prices...
The same thing happens with education. You can deny it all you want, but the only reason people can be charged an arm and a leg for a state school now is easy to receive federal loans. Without that guaranteed pot of money increasing every year, people wouldn't support it. If you think the value of a college education is equal to the cost right now, I don't know what to tell you..
you never responded to the numbers I showed earlier. Do you think the system can support in the future what has happened to tuition numbers the past 30 years? do you think that tuition can go up at the same rate...because without a change it will and where will our students be?



What do you mean by "the increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support?"

Go Beavers

mikepegg44 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

That was pretty much my point. The increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support. Education does, and it will always carry value with individuals, society, and employers, etc.

just like education, the reason it has gone up is the free flow of credit...a government backed program to get people money that probably shouldn't have had it. That easy loan process inflated demand, which increased prices...
The same thing happens with education. You can deny it all you want, but the only reason people can be charged an arm and a leg for a state school now is easy to receive federal loans. Without that guaranteed pot of money increasing every year, people wouldn't support it. If you think the value of a college education is equal to the cost right now, I don't know what to tell you..
you never responded to the numbers I showed earlier. Do you think the system can support in the future what has happened to tuition numbers the past 30 years? do you think that tuition can go up at the same rate...because without a change it will and where will our students be?



What do you mean by "the increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support?"

I mean that housing values are falsely inflated, and there isn't anything people get in return for what they're paying.

I don't think tuition will increase at the same rate over the next 30 years, and as it's been increasing, you do see the system adjust. I just don't see cutting off access as the way to go about it, and I don't think schools are raising tuition in connection to federal school loans.

mikepegg44

Go Beavers wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

That was pretty much my point. The increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support. Education does, and it will always carry value with individuals, society, and employers, etc.

just like education, the reason it has gone up is the free flow of credit...a government backed program to get people money that probably shouldn't have had it. That easy loan process inflated demand, which increased prices...
The same thing happens with education. You can deny it all you want, but the only reason people can be charged an arm and a leg for a state school now is easy to receive federal loans. Without that guaranteed pot of money increasing every year, people wouldn't support it. If you think the value of a college education is equal to the cost right now, I don't know what to tell you..
you never responded to the numbers I showed earlier. Do you think the system can support in the future what has happened to tuition numbers the past 30 years? do you think that tuition can go up at the same rate...because without a change it will and where will our students be?



What do you mean by "the increased value of housing doesn't have anything tangible to support?"

I mean that housing values are falsely inflated, and there isn't anything people get in return for what they're paying. they get a house to live in
I don't think tuition will increase at the same rate over the next 30 years, and as it's been increasing, you do see the system adjust. what adjustments are you talking about? I just don't see cutting off access as the way to go about it, and I don't think schools are raising tuition in connection to federal school loans.

****these aren't large above to be a smart ass, but to show they are what I wrote in your quote.

getting rid of stafford loans does not cut off access. that is what is known as demagoguery and the main reason that crappy government programs stick around for far too long...
Working your way through college and universities having to change their delivery model will be better for everyone involved...If the government wants to provide education for people through an undergrad now they should, but the halfway half assed method of handing out subsidized low interest loans is simply a money maker that increases the cost of education for EVERYONE involved. there will come a time where the entire market is saddled with defaults...and I think we are only a few years away from it...

and you are right about the inflated housing prices, they were artificially inflated... but by what? that's right...easily gotten, government backed loans...are you purposely ignoring that fact or is it that you just don't want to see it because of some strange notion that federal loans are the only way to get the poor into college?

also, what is your reasoning behind saying that tuition won't continue to go up at the same rate? just saying it or do you have something to support it?

student loans are a great thing. they are for people who want to go to college, and want to get it done quickly. They won't disappear. The federal student loan program has had an unforeseen consequence...and they are now more needed than ever precisely because they existed in the first place...that I see as a huge problem moving forward as people are making less because of inflation and a poor economy/jobs market...

If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone to school part time instead of going to school full time working part time during the year for a few years and being swallowed by debt. It isn't something that is thought about when you are 18, 20,000 in debt isn't real at that age...as I have gone back to school I realize what that type of loan means and I am now paying for all of my classes up front. I also have work experience that makes my educational experience better...

keeponrockin

Up here in Canada, one can go to the best school in the nation (consistently ranked with the best in the world) for 4 years and get their undergraduate degree for... $40,000 MAX (Probably closer to 25 grand).

Jason P

Go Beavers wrote:

I mean that housing values are falsely inflated, and there isn't anything people get in return for what they're paying.

Kinda like education nowadays?

Jason P

Notre Dame is raising tuition 3.8% next year. That brings tuition and room & board to $55K ... per year!

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Tuition-Going-Up-38-at-Notre-Dame-139082979.html

That is in-fucking-sane! A little over ten years ago I received a degree for $38K ... total.

Several things have not made sense to me in that past 15 years ...

* The dot com craze and stock free-for-all
* Housing market and prices going through the roof
* Tuition prices going through the roof.

Two of these head-shakers have blown up in faces already ... is tuition next?

keeponrockin

Jason P wrote:

Notre Dame is raising tuition 3.8% next year. That brings tuition and room & board to $55K ... per year!

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Tuition-Going-Up-38-at-Notre-Dame-139082979.html

That is in-fucking-sane! A little over ten years ago I received a degree for $38K ... total.

Several things have not made sense to me in that past 15 years ...

* The dot com craze and stock free-for-all
* Housing market and prices going through the roof
* Tuition prices going through the roof.

Two of these head-shakers have blown up in faces already ... is tuition next?

Jesus...

Yeah, like I said, here in Canada... You could get an entire undergraduate degree for that. And have AT LEAST 15 g to spare.

blackredyellow

Even if tuition costs go down some, will any bank provide student loans without gov't backing? You are basically asking a bank to loan tens of thousands of dollars (maybe $100,000 +) with no collateral to back it. I can't imagine any bank in their right mind giving out that type of money to most people without huge interest rates.

blackredyellow

mikepegg44 wrote:

Do you think the system can support the constant rise in tuition? How long before a degree isn't worth the money paid for it?

I'd guess for a lot of people/professions, we're at the point now.