Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.
I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.
But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.
Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.
I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.
But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.
It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.
P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.
It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.
P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.
It's a very bad sign if an employer passes someone over based on where they got their degree. I guess I don't run into that much in my field. But I'm not in a suit & tie environment (most of the time) and unfortunately, I acknowledge that people do hold bias ... especially if they spent more and may harbor a grudge against someone who they perceive didn't "put in their due". It's too bad.
The biggest thing I look for in a new hire is motivation and common sense. I'll give someone that's pushing a broom around the same respect I'd give a V.P., as long as they have a good attitude and moxie.
Also, $54K per year! :shock: Where I'm currently living, you could go to Ithaca for 2 years or you could by a moderately sized house for $108K. Four years could get you a nice place in the country with land.
I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.
Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.
I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.
But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.
It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.
P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.
I get what you are saying here about private vs. public and I agree with a couple things, but disagree too. I agree that private colleges are typically "teaching schools" and public colleges are "research schools". Obviously, I think we'd both agree there are some exceptions, but for the most part this is true. What I'd disagree with though is the thought that private schools are worse or even necessarily on par "educationally" with public schools. Not saying some public schools aren't hands down better than private, I'm just saying I don't think you can really judge one vs. the other without knowing which two schools you are comparing.
I can only base what I've seen on what I've seen in various Philadelphia area schools, but Public schools tend to have many more adjuncts. The main reason is they tend to be bigger and need them more. They also tend to have more bureaucracy and larger class sizes, once again, because they are bigger. So, that weighs against public. Sure, an adjunct could be better than a typical professor at teaching, but that's rare. Adjuncts tend to still be students or not have great teaching experience. On top of that, some of the worst teachers I've ever had were excellent (even award winning) researchers. There's a huge distinction between a great researcher and a good teacher, and I also think there's a happy medium, which may be the best of all. Finally, those who are heavily vested in research may not be heavily vested in their students educations. In other words, if you know most of your advancement in your career is related to publications, you probably care a lot less about students. There's pluses to public higher-ed, but these are some negatives.
For those reasons, I disagree that higher-ed public education is better the private. I'm sure there are examples where this is not the case, but you get my point. Also, the other thing that some private colleges offer a chance at a more well-rounded, yet less centralized education. To some, this is important.
But, at the end of the day, I think I've met smart/talented people who have come out of both. If one wants to pay more to get something different, so be it. But, to say "private school kids keep getting the jobs because of the name on the paper" I think is false, and kinda highlights a bias.
I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.
I agree with this. My school is doing this. If a school in the Philly area isn't doing this already, I bet they are looking into it. It just makes sense, particularly for older "working" students.
Yeah, it's become a very popular way to attend college in my area. I don't know how widespread this sort of partnership is across the country but I'd bet that it will start happening more and more in places where it's not happening yet.
I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.
I agree with this. My school is doing this. If a school in the Philly area isn't doing this already, I bet they are looking into it. It just makes sense, particularly for older "working" students.
I'm sure there are some who are, but I want to be clear that the increased tuition isn't paying us. It's doing things like building $68 million stadiums that are the same exact size as the one that already exists, with no new classroom space, and no offices for professors.
Inlet totally agree except the part about hiring practices...it's not just the name on the paper, but also the likelihood that someone who is in a position to be doing the hiring went to the same school.
Yes Towson is building a 68 million dollar basketball arena that is exactly the same size as the one we have, and offers no space for education (outside of phys. ed). Now UMass has our idiotic former President.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
Regarding professor pay- I don't have any experience on this as far as major universities go but for three years I did work as a program assistant at our local community college (for barely over mininmum wage I might add) and a mjor grudge held by many of the instructors there was the discrepancy between the wages that adminstrators made compared to what the instuctors made. A great imbalance existed there (this was about 10 years ago- I assume not much has changed). And more than once I heard an instructor say, "Administrators [that is, those who run the show- not the low paid office workers] are people who work in the education system for the money- they don't like students. Their thinking is, 'If it wasn't for those damn students we could get some work done around here'". I know for a fact that the prof I worked for was not wealthy. She drove a beater and wore thrift store clothing. I'm sure community colleges are on the lower end of things but it would be interesting to know if similar discrepancies run through the university systems.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
From what I remember during the application process the payscale(s) were roughly as follows:
CC 30-40k per year, teach 4 classes per semester
DIII-Private 35-45k per year, teach 4 classes per semester, publish 1-2 articles in 5 years, present 1-2 times during that time
DIA-45-55k per year, teach 3 classes per semester publish 1-2 articles per year, present 1-2 times per year
DI-55-70k per year, teach 2-3 classes per semester, publish 3-4 articles, and present 2-5 times
Add about 10k for promo and tenure, and another 10-15k for full professor
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
From what I remember during the application process the payscale(s) were roughly as follows:
CC 30-40k per year, teach 4 classes per semester
DIII-Private 35-45k per year, teach 4 classes per semester, publish 1-2 articles in 5 years, present 1-2 times during that time
DIA-45-55k per year, teach 3 classes per semester publish 1-2 articles per year, present 1-2 times per year
DI-55-70k per year, teach 2-3 classes per semester, publish 3-4 articles, and present 2-5 times
Add about 10k for promo and tenure, and another 10-15k for full professor
So this begs the question: How many of you would be willing to attend college for 6 to 8 years (6 years full-time, assuming you can get a high school or college teaching job with an MA or MS and keeping in mind how much it would cost in money and energy to accrue this many units) for these kinds of wages? No wonder it's getting more difficult to find good qualified teachers. Most of the people I know who are in the profession are used to living on a tight budget and teach because they believe very strongly in the need for good education. Unfortunately, altruism doesn't always pay the bills.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
well this is where the system gets even more insidious...as Inlet pointed out most D1 schools (and increasingly all schools) are not granting tenure and just hiring adjunct or fresh out PhDs for less money, but to the detriment of the student. I honestly do this because it's what I love, but I'm also lucky to have a wife who is a speech pathologist that makes decent money as well.
What do they mean when they say "forgive" your student debt?
Not sure if this was already answered, but if the lender forgives your debt, it means you don't have to pay it back. Portions of a debt can be forgiven (so, for example, if I owe $20k and the bank forgives $5k, I now only owe $15k plus interest for the remainder of the term of the loan) or all of it.
I don't know the extent to which that impacts the borrower's credit, but I'd guess it's somewhere between the impact of missing one payment and a default.
Comments
But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.
P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.
The biggest thing I look for in a new hire is motivation and common sense. I'll give someone that's pushing a broom around the same respect I'd give a V.P., as long as they have a good attitude and moxie.
Also, $54K per year! :shock: Where I'm currently living, you could go to Ithaca for 2 years or you could by a moderately sized house for $108K. Four years could get you a nice place in the country with land.
I get what you are saying here about private vs. public and I agree with a couple things, but disagree too. I agree that private colleges are typically "teaching schools" and public colleges are "research schools". Obviously, I think we'd both agree there are some exceptions, but for the most part this is true. What I'd disagree with though is the thought that private schools are worse or even necessarily on par "educationally" with public schools. Not saying some public schools aren't hands down better than private, I'm just saying I don't think you can really judge one vs. the other without knowing which two schools you are comparing.
I can only base what I've seen on what I've seen in various Philadelphia area schools, but Public schools tend to have many more adjuncts. The main reason is they tend to be bigger and need them more. They also tend to have more bureaucracy and larger class sizes, once again, because they are bigger. So, that weighs against public. Sure, an adjunct could be better than a typical professor at teaching, but that's rare. Adjuncts tend to still be students or not have great teaching experience. On top of that, some of the worst teachers I've ever had were excellent (even award winning) researchers. There's a huge distinction between a great researcher and a good teacher, and I also think there's a happy medium, which may be the best of all. Finally, those who are heavily vested in research may not be heavily vested in their students educations. In other words, if you know most of your advancement in your career is related to publications, you probably care a lot less about students. There's pluses to public higher-ed, but these are some negatives.
For those reasons, I disagree that higher-ed public education is better the private. I'm sure there are examples where this is not the case, but you get my point. Also, the other thing that some private colleges offer a chance at a more well-rounded, yet less centralized education. To some, this is important.
But, at the end of the day, I think I've met smart/talented people who have come out of both. If one wants to pay more to get something different, so be it. But, to say "private school kids keep getting the jobs because of the name on the paper" I think is false, and kinda highlights a bias.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I agree with this. My school is doing this. If a school in the Philly area isn't doing this already, I bet they are looking into it. It just makes sense, particularly for older "working" students.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
has helped so much ... thank you Georgia lottery players
Lottery = Only way to tax the poor & desperate
HOPE is enabling so many kids who wouldn't be able to go to 4 year college
go so some good comes out of it all
Towson U has a $68 million stadium?
Yes Towson is building a 68 million dollar basketball arena that is exactly the same size as the one we have, and offers no space for education (outside of phys. ed). Now UMass has our idiotic former President.
CC 30-40k per year, teach 4 classes per semester
DIII-Private 35-45k per year, teach 4 classes per semester, publish 1-2 articles in 5 years, present 1-2 times during that time
DIA-45-55k per year, teach 3 classes per semester publish 1-2 articles per year, present 1-2 times per year
DI-55-70k per year, teach 2-3 classes per semester, publish 3-4 articles, and present 2-5 times
Add about 10k for promo and tenure, and another 10-15k for full professor
So this begs the question: How many of you would be willing to attend college for 6 to 8 years (6 years full-time, assuming you can get a high school or college teaching job with an MA or MS and keeping in mind how much it would cost in money and energy to accrue this many units) for these kinds of wages? No wonder it's getting more difficult to find good qualified teachers. Most of the people I know who are in the profession are used to living on a tight budget and teach because they believe very strongly in the need for good education. Unfortunately, altruism doesn't always pay the bills.
I don't know the extent to which that impacts the borrower's credit, but I'd guess it's somewhere between the impact of missing one payment and a default.