Obama Student Loan Debt Relief Plan

RW81233

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Jason P wrote:

marcos wrote:

I understand the high cost of education at certain schools but not all. Many economists have predicted that this is the next bubble, much like housing, to burst.

I agree. There have been several things that have occurred in my adult life that made me scratch my head and think “How is this possible and self-sustaining?” and “Why is everyone going along with this like it makes sense?”.

1) Dot.com stocks being handed out like candy a decade ago
2) Crazy rise in the cost of property from the late 90’s to a couple of years ago
3) Crazy rise in the cost of college tuition in the last 15 years

If you’re going to college and you’re not in a field that offers high pay, I don’t see how one can reason spending over $20K a year on it.

You are spot on. At some point folks are going to realize that pretty campuses and overpaid professors don't really mean a whole lot in the real world.

eff-off man...overpaid professors?!?! Do you know how much we make? Have you read on the other thread where both Inlet and I have had to take on second jobs? I'll be straight with you I get paid $55k per year to be a prof at a Research IA school (others starting out maybe make 65k at a RI down to 40k at a Private Teaching School). I have had to take furloughs for each of the 3 years I have been at Towson University, and have never received a pay increase - not even cost of living. During that time my teaching record is amongst the best University-wide, my publications and presentations are more plentiful than anyone else's in my department, and I have led a study abroad trip, and served on several university committees. Don't get me wrong I fucking love what I do, but don't fucking tell me I'm overpaid.

know1

First of all, I've slowly come around to the realization that the majority of college educations just aren't worth the cost anymore. You can't have tuition rates rising at 10% EVERY year for long before it becomes too expensive to justify going.

Related to the topic at hand, I don't think the government should be involved in doing anything regarding student loans. If a student doesn't like the terms of their loan, DON'T BORROW.

EdsonNascimento

RW81233 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

You are spot on. At some point folks are going to realize that pretty campuses and overpaid professors don't really mean a whole lot in the real world.

eff-off man...overpaid professors?!?! Do you know how much we make? Have you read on the other thread where both Inlet and I have had to take on second jobs? I'll be straight with you I get paid $55k per year to be a prof at a Research IA school (others starting out maybe make 65k at a RI down to 40k at a Private Teaching School). I have had to take furloughs for each of the 3 years I have been at Towson University, and have never received a pay increase - not even cost of living. During that time my teaching record is amongst the best University-wide, my publications and presentations are more plentiful than anyone else's in my department, and I have led a study abroad trip, and served on several university committees. Don't get me wrong I fucking love what I do, but don't fucking tell me I'm overpaid.

I'm sorry if you took my statement to mean ALL professors are overpaid.

RW81233

I'm sure there are some who are, but I want to be clear that the increased tuition isn't paying us. It's doing things like building $68 million stadiums that are the same exact size as the one that already exists, with no new classroom space, and no offices for professors.

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

eff-off man...overpaid professors?!?! Do you know how much we make? Have you read on the other thread where both Inlet and I have had to take on second jobs? I'll be straight with you I get paid $55k per year to be a prof at a Research IA school (others starting out maybe make 65k at a RI down to 40k at a Private Teaching School). I have had to take furloughs for each of the 3 years I have been at Towson University, and have never received a pay increase - not even cost of living. During that time my teaching record is amongst the best University-wide, my publications and presentations are more plentiful than anyone else's in my department, and I have led a study abroad trip, and served on several university committees. Don't get me wrong I fucking love what I do, but don't fucking tell me I'm overpaid.

I also agree that professors, at least to my knowledge aren't necessarily overpaid. However, they may not be underpaid either. So, sure some may be over and some may be underpaid. Let's just say they are paid fine for sake of argument.

If the above assumption is true, I'll tell you who is overpaid: high school and grade school teachers. The fact that any high school teacher or grade school teacher is making more than a college professor shows how f'd up our system is. In fact, in certain locations, the average salary for a public school teacher (highschool or grade school) is higher than a college professor.

If you get a PhD, I think one should (on average) make more than the MA/MS counterparts that teach at a lower level of education (high school or grade school). Not saying highschool and grade school teachers don't do a good job, I'm just saying that in my opinion, they don't deserve to make more than college professors.

But, since they do, good for them. I will just continue to vote against the interests that make that possible.

Sorry to derail the thread.

blackredyellow

Go Beavers wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Newch91 wrote:

I just can't believe student loan debt for 2011 is at $1 trillion and more than credit card debt.

That threw me too. But I guess most people's credit card limit is well below $10K whereas a student loan can be extraordinarily high.

I think the average household credit card debt is $10-$12,000 (households with 10c member: $13,000-$15,000)

I can't comprehend being that much in credit card debt... I wouldn't be able to sleep. Don't get me wrong, we have debt (mortgage, car loan, school loans), but if we have $500 on a credit card I get stressed.

inmytree

EdsonNascimento wrote:

inmytree wrote:

wait a minute, first you say this:

you wrote:

That's exactly what I thought when I read this earlier. He's obviously in trouble and knows it, so he's pandering.

then you say, naaaaw, it's the democratic congress...which is it...? My guess is your supporting Mittens for prez, as you and he like to change positions within minutes...

anyhoo...It's my understanding this will be cost neutral...google is your friend, I don't have time to do for you...

as for the rest of your post...It's sad...I do wonder were this "generation of yes" is ....because all I see lately is a generation of "selfish whiners who worry only about themselves"...

What? So funny. I have no idea who I'm for. The election is 12 months away. There's still a lot to understand about the candidates.

But, the fact the Obama is coming out and pandering NOW has nothing to do with the actual facts of when this whole ball started rolling. On one hand, I was criticizing Obama for using this as a means to getting his base back, and on the other I'm telling you who is really to blame for getting this whole thing rolling. So, it's not flipping. It's looking at 2 different facets of the same situation.

AND - wait for it - now Obama is trying to speed the process up. It's not that difficult to get this if you try. I sometimes think folks have fallen prey to politicians' and media's gotcha mentality instead of trying to understand each other.

Based on your response...Mittens is your man...

and are you really trying to tell me that you're trying to understand others...?!?!

Cognitive Dissonance anyone...?

themessenger

RW81233 wrote:

I'm sure there are some who are, but I want to be clear that the increased tuition isn't paying us. It's doing things like building $68 million stadiums that are the same exact size as the one that already exists, with no new classroom space, and no offices for professors.

Agreed, the current school loan programs and massive increases in tuition are simply unsustainable. My university I graduated from 9 years ago has gone up 100% in price since I was there, and obviously job pay when graduating isn't covering all this cost. Where does all this money go that we pay? Athletic departments, more deans, fancy buildings?

Students should definitely be more active in pursuing a degree from a school that they can afford to go to. I finished my MBA last summer and went to a "lesser" school simply bc it was about 1/3 of the cost of SMU or TCU. There are so many variables that can't prove whether the savings in money will pay off with future pay comparatively, but I felt it was the smarter decision for me.

RW81233

themessenger wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

I'm sure there are some who are, but I want to be clear that the increased tuition isn't paying us. It's doing things like building $68 million stadiums that are the same exact size as the one that already exists, with no new classroom space, and no offices for professors.

Agreed, the current school loan programs and massive increases in tuition are simply unsustainable. My university I graduated from 9 years ago has gone up 100% in price since I was there, and obviously job pay when graduating isn't covering all this cost. Where does all this money go that we pay? Athletic departments, more deans, fancy buildings?

Students should definitely be more active in pursuing a degree from a school that they can afford to go to. I finished my MBA last summer and went to a "lesser" school simply bc it was about 1/3 of the cost of SMU or TCU. There are so many variables that can't prove whether the savings in money will pay off with future pay comparatively, but I felt it was the smarter decision for me.

Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.

themessenger

I think it's been that way for a while already, or at least in Finance where I work. Plenty of jobs in financial services, however if you want to work on Wall Street (which obviously isn't popular right now lol), or in Investment Banking or Asset Management, you have to go to a top tier Business School, which not surprisingly are expensive. I got turned down for a job last year b/c my MBA program wasn't considered prestigious enough (their words), but no worries and I found one that I love and that's all that matters really to me.

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.

I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.

But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.

RW81233

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.

I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.

But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.

It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.

P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.

P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.

It's a very bad sign if an employer passes someone over based on where they got their degree. I guess I don't run into that much in my field. But I'm not in a suit & tie environment (most of the time) and unfortunately, I acknowledge that people do hold bias ... especially if they spent more and may harbor a grudge against someone who they perceive didn't "put in their due". It's too bad.

The biggest thing I look for in a new hire is motivation and common sense. I'll give someone that's pushing a broom around the same respect I'd give a V.P., as long as they have a good attitude and moxie.

Also, $54K per year! :shock: Where I'm currently living, you could go to Ithaca for 2 years or you could by a moderately sized house for $108K. Four years could get you a nice place in the country with land.

Monster Rain

I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

Isn't this then a new space of class warfare...either your parents can afford to put you through school and you get a degree from an institution with brand clout, plus you're likely going to class with other rich kids, getting internships with their moms/dads companies, which then turns into a job in that company when you finish, or you save money, don't get that benefit, and hope that luck turns in your favor.

I think just about every state has at least one, if not two, excellent public universities to choose from. I think with a massive alumni base, it's better to go to a public school then a private one.

But even public universities have spun out of control. If the costs keep rising, secondary education may very well create the class warfare you speak of ... although tax propaganda is doing a pretty good job as I type.

It's crazy I really didn't understand the difference between public and private colleges when I was a kid - like AT ALL. If I had to do it all over again I never would have gone to Ithaca in a million years. When I did it was "only" 23k-27k (when I left 3 years later), now it's $54k to go to school there! The interesting dynamic is that at most Private Schools the profs. are "teachers" who literally teach 4 classes+ per semester, and have a small research requirement (if at all). Conversely, at the big D1 schools the teachers lead 1-3 classes per semester but are expected to be huge time cutting-edge researchers. So tell me would you rather pay 200k+ for four years of people teaching you things they likely learned 15-20 years ago when they got a PhD, or 40-100k for fours years of (hopefully) getting classes with people who are pushing their field forward? Who would you rather hire? Yet private school kids keep getting the jobs, because of the name on a piece of paper.

P.S. Messenger I'm glad you got a job you love that's literally the only thing one can truly hope for in their occupation(s). I literally can't wait to get back in the classroom to work with my students once the last class for the week has been taught.

I get what you are saying here about private vs. public and I agree with a couple things, but disagree too. I agree that private colleges are typically "teaching schools" and public colleges are "research schools". Obviously, I think we'd both agree there are some exceptions, but for the most part this is true. What I'd disagree with though is the thought that private schools are worse or even necessarily on par "educationally" with public schools. Not saying some public schools aren't hands down better than private, I'm just saying I don't think you can really judge one vs. the other without knowing which two schools you are comparing.

I can only base what I've seen on what I've seen in various Philadelphia area schools, but Public schools tend to have many more adjuncts. The main reason is they tend to be bigger and need them more. They also tend to have more bureaucracy and larger class sizes, once again, because they are bigger. So, that weighs against public. Sure, an adjunct could be better than a typical professor at teaching, but that's rare. Adjuncts tend to still be students or not have great teaching experience. On top of that, some of the worst teachers I've ever had were excellent (even award winning) researchers. There's a huge distinction between a great researcher and a good teacher, and I also think there's a happy medium, which may be the best of all. Finally, those who are heavily vested in research may not be heavily vested in their students educations. In other words, if you know most of your advancement in your career is related to publications, you probably care a lot less about students. There's pluses to public higher-ed, but these are some negatives.

For those reasons, I disagree that higher-ed public education is better the private. I'm sure there are examples where this is not the case, but you get my point. Also, the other thing that some private colleges offer a chance at a more well-rounded, yet less centralized education. To some, this is important.

But, at the end of the day, I think I've met smart/talented people who have come out of both. If one wants to pay more to get something different, so be it. But, to say "private school kids keep getting the jobs because of the name on the paper" I think is false, and kinda highlights a bias.

inlet13

Monster Rain wrote:

I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.

I agree with this. My school is doing this. If a school in the Philly area isn't doing this already, I bet they are looking into it. It just makes sense, particularly for older "working" students.

pandora

our Hope scholarship program is awesome!

has helped so much ... thank you Georgia lottery players

Monster Rain

Yeah, it's become a very popular way to attend college in my area. I don't know how widespread this sort of partnership is across the country but I'd bet that it will start happening more and more in places where it's not happening yet.

inlet13 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

I think the most cost-effective way for most people to go to college for a 4-year degree now is to do 2 years at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school in-state. Some colleges and universities are now running partnerships with community colleges so students can start out at the community college and be assured of being able to transfer up to a certain number of credits, and then take the university's classes on the community college's campus. It's a good way to save on the cost of school now since the community college classes cost less and you don't have the added room and board expense you would have if you went away to school. You might not get the "college experience" of drinking until you puke 3 nights a week, but that might not be such a bad thing.

I agree with this. My school is doing this. If a school in the Philly area isn't doing this already, I bet they are looking into it. It just makes sense, particularly for older "working" students.

Jason P

pandora wrote:

our Hope scholarship program is awesome!

has helped so much ... thank you Georgia lottery players

Ironically, the HOPE scholarship is funded by those HOPING to not be poor or those with gambling addictions.

Lottery = Only way to tax the poor & desperate

pandora

Jason P wrote:

pandora wrote:

our Hope scholarship program is awesome!

has helped so much ... thank you Georgia lottery players

Ironically, the HOPE scholarship is funded by those HOPING to not be poor or those with gambling addictions.

Lottery = Only way to tax the poor & desperate

we are neither and play religiously but I get what you are saying

HOPE is enabling so many kids who wouldn't be able to go to 4 year college
go so some good comes out of it all