Forced vaccination

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

^^^In Canada education is a provincial responsibility, just as health care is...

I know, but that doesn't mean a federal law couldn't be applied in such a case anyhow. But anyway, if provinces all did it, that would work too. Whatever.

Well I’m pretty sure if your kid isn’t vaccinated then they can go to school ... unless you want forced flu vaccines as well, in which case, please don’t run for office ... we already have to many politicians dictating to us.

I don't even get the flu vaccine myself.

You're kind of a salty character, eh?

Not really, I’m not trying to be offensive, I had all the childhood vaccines.  I’m just not interested in the flu shot, nor do I believe it should be forced on people.  My point being my body, I’ll put/inject in my body what I choose.  Part of the reason I live where I live is because we do not have fluoride in our water...that was a great municipal decision spawned by grass roots politics...we all had an input into this decision.

Yeah, I didn't mean I think the flu vaccination should be forced on everyone... but I do think it needs to be forced on those who work with people vulnerable, i.e. hospital staff. That is only rational and logical. I think if a hospital worker refuses it, then they shouldn't be allowed to work there. Sometimes certain professions require things that aren't demanded from the general public.... Same goes for drug testing. I obviously do not support random drug testing for the entire Canadian work force at all. I don't think it should be legal for paranoid bosses in the private sector to make his executive or support staffers to pee in a cup. But I 100% support random drug testing for, say, workers who operate large machinery or otherwise have the ability to affect public or employee safety on a daily basis. I support that because, simply, it makes sense, and because our laws dictate the public safety comes before individual rights.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

^^^In Canada education is a provincial responsibility, just as health care is...

I know, but that doesn't mean a federal law couldn't be applied in such a case anyhow. But anyway, if provinces all did it, that would work too. Whatever.

Well I’m pretty sure if your kid isn’t vaccinated then they can go to school ... unless you want forced flu vaccines as well, in which case, please don’t run for office ... we already have to many politicians dictating to us.

I don't even get the flu vaccine myself.

You're kind of a salty character, eh?

Not really, I’m not trying to be offensive, I had all the childhood vaccines.  I’m just not interested in the flu shot, nor do I believe it should be forced on people.  My point being my body, I’ll put/inject in my body what I choose.  Part of the reason I live where I live is because we do not have fluoride in our water...that was a great municipal decision spawned by grass roots politics...we all had an input into this decision.

Yeah, I didn't mean I think the fly vaccination should be forced on everyone... but I do think it needs to be forced on those who work with people vulnerable, i.e. hospital staff. That is only rational and logical. I think if a hospital worker refuses it, then they shouldn't be allowed to work there. Sometimes certain professions require things that aren't demanded from the general public.... Same goes for drug testing. I obviously do not support random drug testing for the entire Canadian work force at all. I don't think it should be legal for paranoid bosses in the private sector to make his executive or support staffers to pee in a cup. But I 100% support random drug testing for, say, for workers who operate large machinery or otherwise have the ability to affect public or employee safety on a daily basis. I support that because, simply, it makes sense, and because our laws dictate the public safety comes before individual rights.

That’s a fair assement...especially those working with newborns, children and the elderly...also I’m pretty sure if I worked in drs office or hospital I’d get the flu shot...

good point on drug testing...semi-drivers are regularly tested, and should be. 

It just goes to show that this is far from a black and white topic.

 Love your input...

JC29856

Bill Gates kids pediatrician alleges that the Gates kids are not vaccinated, any thruth to this rumor?
Apparently Bill has issues with single vs stacked vaccinations and whether or not the vaccines were/are properly stored (refrigerated)...I wonder what Bill knows?
Are vaccines warranted as safe and effective?

dignin

JC29856 said:

Bill Gates kids pediatrician alleges that the Gates kids are not vaccinated, any thruth to this rumor?
Apparently Bill has issues with single vs stacked vaccinations and whether or not the vaccines were/are properly stored (refrigerated)...I wonder what Bill knows?
Are vaccines warranted as safe and effective?

Stop spreading nonsense. 

JC29856

dignin said:

JC29856 said:i

Bill Gates kids pediatrician alleges that the Gates kids are not vaccinated, any thruth to this rumor?
Apparently Bill has issues with single vs stacked vaccinations and whether or not the vaccines were/are properly stored (refrigerated)...I wonder what Bill knows?
Are vaccines warranted as safe and effective?

Stop spreading nonsense. 

Nonsense...don't believe me? Ask BG, Carpenter of V, then E oh OH. 
Meanwhile, there were 3 questions posed but you can skip to the last and only answer that one.............safe and effective?
Your court!

rgambs

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:i

Bill Gates kids pediatrician alleges that the Gates kids are not vaccinated, any thruth to this rumor?
Apparently Bill has issues with single vs stacked vaccinations and whether or not the vaccines were/are properly stored (refrigerated)...I wonder what Bill knows?
Are vaccines warranted as safe and effective?

Stop spreading nonsense. 

Nonsense...don't believe me? Ask BG, Carpenter of V, then E oh OH. 
Meanwhile, there were 3 questions posed but you can skip to the last and only answer that one.............safe and effective?
Your court!

I will email Alex Jones and get an answer that you will accept.

Did you hook my2hands up with that print yet?

rgambs

Shipping costs from Russia must be a bitch!

oftenreading

Lack of appropriate vaccination is causing a massive resurgence of measles in Central Europe. This is what happens when the vaccine skeptics form a sizable percentage of the population - huge numbers of people get sick, and some of them needlessly die, particularly infants and children. 

The number of measles cases in Europe jumped sharply during the first six months of 2018, and at least 37 people have died, the World Health Organization says.

The UN agency's European office said Monday more than 41,000 measles cases were reported in the region during the first half of the year — more than in all 12-month periods so far this decade.

The previous highest annual total was 23,927 cases in 2017. A year earlier, only 5,273 cases were reported.

The agency said half — some 23,000 cases — this year occurred in Ukraine, where an insurgency backed by Russia has been fighting the government for four years in the east in a conflict that has killed more than 10,000 people.

France, Georgia, Greece, Italy, Russia and Serbia also had more than 1,000 measles infections each this year.

Measles — among the world's most contagious diseases — is a virus spread in the air through coughing or sneezing. It can be prevented with a vaccine that's been in use since the 1960s, but health officials say vaccination rates of at least 95 per cent are needed to prevent epidemics.

Measles typically begins with a high fever, and sometimes a runny nose, cough, and red and watery eyes. Small white spots can also appear inside the cheeks. Later, a rash develops on the face and neck and spreads down the body.

Most people who develop measles recover, but it can cause serious complications that can turn deadly. Complications include blindness, encephalitis (brain swelling), severe diarrhea leading to dehydration, ear infections and severe respiratory infections, according to the World Health Organization.

Children under five years of age are the most vulnerable. And despite the availability of a vaccination, measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children around the world.

Vaccine skepticism remains high in many parts of Europe.

Italy introduced a law in 2017 requiring parents to vaccinate their children against measles and nine other childhood diseases. Romania has also passed a similar bill, including hefty fines for parents who didn't vaccinate their children.

The WHO on Monday called for better surveillance of the disease and increased immunization rates to prevent measles from becoming endemic.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/european-measles-upward-trend-1.4792828

Spiritual_Chaos

We've had measles outbreaks on hospitals here in Sweden, from the staff not being vaccinated (Guessing from people not born in Sweden, most people born here have gotten vaccinated as children).

Hospital staff etc should be forced to be vaccinated to work.

brianlux

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Spiritual_Chaos

brianlux said:

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Higher standard of living is what thinning out our population instead.

oftenreading

brianlux said:

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Brian, I know what you mean. What I would say in response is that larger families have always tended to occur where survival was uncertain and women did not have control over their own reproductive capacity. Whenever infant and child mortality drops, by measures such as clean water, better nutrition and prevention of the major infectious diseases, and women can freely choose when and whether to have children, then birth rate drops markedly anyway. 

Religion obviously plays a major negative role in all of this. 

JC29856

Where in the article does it say how many of those that contracted measels were not vaccinated? How many that died were not vaccinated?
Good luck finding those answers!

 Vaccine risk vs disease risk

oftenreading

JC29856 said:

Where in the article does it say how many of those that contracted measels were not vaccinated? How many that died were not vaccinated?
Good luck finding those answers!

 Vaccine risk vs disease risk

Good luck finding those answers?

Ridiculous. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Brian, I know what you mean. What I would say in response is that larger families have always tended to occur where survival was uncertain and women did not have control over their own reproductive capacity. Whenever infant and child mortality drops, by measures such as clean water, better nutrition and prevention of the major infectious diseases, and women can freely choose when and whether to have children, then birth rate drops markedly anyway. 

Religion obviously plays a major negative role in all of this. 

Good points, often.  And good reason to reduce poverty. 

As for religion, I would be fine with religion if it focused on spiritual stories be it of Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, the Big Bunny or what ever- stories seen as metaphors for better ways to live.  Watership Down, for example, would make a great Spiritual Story.  And start kids right off with telling them, "This is a story, a good story but just a story.  Rabbits don't really talk."

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Brian, I know what you mean. What I would say in response is that larger families have always tended to occur where survival was uncertain and women did not have control over their own reproductive capacity. Whenever infant and child mortality drops, by measures such as clean water, better nutrition and prevention of the major infectious diseases, and women can freely choose when and whether to have children, then birth rate drops markedly anyway. 

Religion obviously plays a major negative role in all of this. 

Good points, often.  And good reason to reduce poverty. 

As for religion, I would be fine with religion if it focused on spiritual stories be it of Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, the Big Bunny or what ever- stories seen as metaphors for better ways to live.  Watership Down, for example, would make a great Spiritual Story.  And start kids right off with telling them, "This is a story, a good story but just a story.  Rabbits don't really talk."

Rabbits don't really talk???

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

This is a highly conflicted subject to me.  From a personal stand point, I'm can see the benefits of vaccinations.  They have probably prevented disease or death in myself an in other people I love and care about.

But looking at it from a bigger, more biocentric perspective, there is a downside to vaccinations and other "miracles" of modern medicine.  Our ability to stave of disease and to give us humans and abnormally low infant mortality rate has done much to inflate our numbers in ways which probably are not sustainable.  Those medical advances have suppressed the natural thinning of individuals within our species and, in general made us a weaker species.  What will be the long term affect of that?

Now, before anyone accuses me of being cold and heartless, that second paragraph is purely objective and scientific.  Who wants to be expecting and have a miscarriage?  Not anyone I know who plans a family.  Who wants a child with a congenital heart disease to die?  No one I know. 

And yet (speaking objectively again) what will be the long term consequences of suppressing something natural like disease and thinning of our population and is there an intermediate solution?  I believe these are difficult questions to answer.

Brian, I know what you mean. What I would say in response is that larger families have always tended to occur where survival was uncertain and women did not have control over their own reproductive capacity. Whenever infant and child mortality drops, by measures such as clean water, better nutrition and prevention of the major infectious diseases, and women can freely choose when and whether to have children, then birth rate drops markedly anyway. 

Religion obviously plays a major negative role in all of this. 

Good points, often.  And good reason to reduce poverty. 

As for religion, I would be fine with religion if it focused on spiritual stories be it of Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, the Big Bunny or what ever- stories seen as metaphors for better ways to live.  Watership Down, for example, would make a great Spiritual Story.  And start kids right off with telling them, "This is a story, a good story but just a story.  Rabbits don't really talk."

Rabbits don't really talk???

Don't tell this guy I said that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO-Np9-pIkY

Halifax2TheMax

JC29856 said:

Where in the article does it say how many of those that contracted measels were not vaccinated? How many that died were not vaccinated?
Good luck finding those answers!

 Vaccine risk vs disease risk

3D, D’ing so hard for a spin cuz he ain’t got a win in the wind when it’s falling down like don and Jared and Ivanka and Julian, Julian ass strange, roaming around and waiting to be splayed like trump been played feeling silly and just being made like money, gotta feel the green the real the state the condo feeling the hate in the main stream wishing it was Wall Street but knowing and flowing how the incoherent no show of putin and ritz ain’t gonna Follow the boys to the reality of what’s up in your face you’re a disgrace to the beauty of the U S of A, yo!

He’s moved on to vaccines. My god. JC= credibility. Authority.

Meltdown99

In 2018 we are debating the usefulness of vaccines that have been proven effective?  Is that how stupid society is.  I really love the thinning of the heard comment I read.  Yup children should pay because earth is over populated.  Society is fucked with thinking like that.

benjs

Meltdown99 said:

In 2018 we are debating the usefulness of vaccines that have been proven effective?  Is that how stupid society is.  I really love the thinning of the heard comment I read.  Yup children should pay because earth is over populated.  Society is fucked with thinking like that.

If you need to produce more than your production capacity to because of your consumption needs, the depletion of resources is inevitable. Society is fucked for allowing this reality to arrive, evidence be damned. Choices  we had were to curb consumption, consume smarter, produce smarter, or create fewer consumers. From a material perspective, we chose none and now express shock at remaining options.