Earn academic credit for picketing against abortion

Hugh Freaking Dillon

My wife went to this school. She and my daughters are members of this parish. I am not, as most of you would have guessed. I am SO glad we decided not to send our girls to attend this school.

PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE FINAL STATEMENT I'VE ITALICIZED AND UNDERLINED. SHAME ON THEM.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/anti-abortion-vigil-earns-credit-131575338.html

Anti-abortion vigil earns credit
Participation optional at Catholic school
By: Nick Martin


Anti-abortion demonstrators hold vigil outside of the Women's Hospital on Notre Dame Avenue Tuesday.
Children at Christ the King School who walk in daily anti-abortion vigils outside the Health Sciences Centre will receive community service credit.

The vigils are strictly voluntary and a family decision, principal David Hood emphasized Tuesday, but he's considering organizing it as an official school activity as early as next year.

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Should students receive credit for taking part in demonstrations? Hood has talked to the teacher responsible for the students' community service activities, and they've agreed that if any kids take part in the vigils, the time would count towards the student's community service.

And Hood has pointed out to parents in the school newsletter that the vigils are occurring.

"There's nothing organized at school -- I've advertised it" in the school newsletter, Hood said.

The private Catholic school in St. Vital has about 200 students in kindergarten to Grade 8.

Hood said he advised parents in a recent newsletter that the Campaign Life Coalition organizes daily vigils outside the Women's Hospital at HSC.

"If the parents are involved, that's great," said Hood.

That's a voluntary family decision, Hood emphasized.

"It could happen in years to come" as a school activity, Hood said. "I have to tread carefully.

"It would be good for some community service for the kids, but I have to feel out the community first," he said.

It's a prayer vigil, he said: "We're not there to block anyone."

The vigils are a political lobby, and any school receiving public funding should not be allowed to involve children in political lobbies, said Lori Johnson, executive director of the Klinic Community Health Centre and the Sexuality Education Research Centre.

"It would certainly not be allowed in the public sector," said Johnson, a registered nurse and former long-time school trustee with the Winnipeg School Division board. "That is ill-considered by any school, public or private. It should be at the cost of losing their public funding."

Christ the King is a funded independent school, which means it receives operating grants from the provincial government at 50 per cent of the per-student rate in Louis Riel School Division, in which the school is located.

While acknowledging that Catholic theology opposes abortion, Johnson said the vigils are a political lobby, and no school should be involved in such activities.

"That's controversial by any estimation. That is shocking to me -- that is a step way over the line," she said.

Parents and their children can do whatever they wish outside of school, Johnson said.

An official with the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority would say only that the hospital respects the right of people to express their beliefs, and similarly hopes those people will respect the rights of patients to come to the hospital freely.

Campaign Life Coalition Manitoba president Maria Slykerman was not aware that any school was involved or considering involvement in the anti-abortion activities, but said she's seen an increase in the number of people taking part.

"We have about 350 people involved," said Slykerman.

There is a vigil each day, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.

"It's not picketing, it's praying, it's a vigil," she said.

Slykerman said the coalition has not asked schools to get involved, but she's seen more people coming out.

"I have definitely, yes, especially among Catholic groups."

Slykerman said that people cannot stand by and do nothing while the hospital performs abortions.

"They realize they're the ones who have to do something about it, otherwise they're as guilty as the mothers who abort their babies," Slykerman said.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I should also mention that while this principal is pushing the "it's optional" rhetoric, my wife pointed out that "optional" in this school generally means the kids who participate are praised to the point of making those who don't social and moral out casts. She has seen this MO many times from the teachers at this school, and that sickens me.

She also knew this principle when he was the math/science teacher, and found it quite questionable that he was chosen as principal in the first place.

I still don't get how she can turn a blind eye to this kind of shit and want to be a member of this parish, but hey, it's her choice.

_

This is bullshit on so many different levels.

#1 They're exploiting young children. When I saw the thread title, I thought this was going to be a college or at least a high school. But an elementary school?? A mddle school? It's especially exploitative & brainwashing when you consider that students are pressured to do it.

#2 It's not a community service. What service is being provided? What community need is being served? What effect is this having? Abortion protestors don't actually DO anything. They just voice their opinion. They should at least have to pick up some trash while they're out there.

#3 It's a political lobby. They're not providing a service; they're just expressing an opinion on a political issue - but it can only be one particular opinion that represents the opinion of the people who run the school. If they want to argue that this is in any way acceptable, they must also give kids equal credit for protesting in support of abortion rights, and should not influence them one way or the other on the issue. But of course they're not going to allow that. And we all know that public funds can't be used for political lobbying. They should totally lose their public funding.

Jason P

_ wrote:

#3 It's a political lobby. They're not providing a service; they're just expressing an opinion on a political issue - but it can only be one particular opinion that represents the opinion of the people who run the school. If they want to argue that this is in any way acceptable, they must also give kids equal credit for protesting in support of abortion rights, and should not influence them one way or the other on the issue. But of course they're not going to allow that. And we all know that public funds can't be used for political lobbying. They should totally lose their public funding.

I believe this school is way up north, eh. I'm not sure what rules them canucks play by.

cincybearcat

_ wrote:

#1 They're exploiting young children.

I agree with this. Do you feel the same way about the kids at OWS?

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

_ wrote:

#1 They're exploiting young children.

I agree with this. Do you feel the same way about the kids at OWS?

how is this related to this topic?

this issue is not about protesting, it is about kids being rewarded with school credit for protesting on one side of a two sided argument. last i checked no kids were getting school credit for protesting with or against the OWS protests...

inlet13

I may be wrong here, but if it's a Catholic school, right? If so, I don't see anything wrong with this. It's Catholic dogma (teaching), that abortion is murder.

Moreover, Catholic schools are private, and are 100% allowed to explain and actively partake in Catholic views with students. To provide an example, most Catholic schools make all kids go to mass (when's it during school hours), even if they aren't Catholic.

My point of view is, if you had issue with this: take your kid out of Catholic school.

EDIT: I've read the entire article and now I understand a bit better. Now, I am ever-so slightly changing my tune on this. I didn't know it was possible for Catholic schools to be publicly funded. In fact, I'm still a bit confused on how that works.

gimmesometruth27

inlet13 wrote:

I may be wrong here, but if it's a Catholic school, right? If so, I don't see anything wrong with this. It's Catholic dogma (teaching), that abortion is murder.

Moreover, Catholic schools are private, and are 100% allowed to explain and actively partake in Catholic views with students. To provide an example, most Catholic schools make all kids go to mass (when's it during school hours), even if they aren't Catholic.

My point of view is, if you had issue with this: take your kid out of Catholic school.

this is canada we are talking about.

if it was the US and if they are preaching who they should vote for for whatever reason, which many catholic high schools have done, then they should lose their tax exempt status.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

_ wrote:

#1 They're exploiting young children.

I agree with this. Do you feel the same way about the kids at OWS?

how is this related to this topic?

this issue is not about protesting, it is about kids being rewarded with school credit for protesting on one side of a two sided argument. last i checked no kids were getting school credit for protesting with or against the OWS protests...

I was interested in what they thought?

I'll check with you first next time, ok? Seriously, your panties must be wedge way up your ass all the time with how often you jump in to jump on people anymore.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

I was interested in what they thought?

I'll check with you first next time, ok? Seriously, your panties must be wedge way up your ass all the time with how often you jump in to jump on people anymore.

i did not jump on you. it seemed like you were changing the subject to me. i tried to keep the thread on topic so it did not revert to a catholics vs ows supporters thread, which would have been inevitable...

inlet13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

I may be wrong here, but if it's a Catholic school, right? If so, I don't see anything wrong with this. It's Catholic dogma (teaching), that abortion is murder.

Moreover, Catholic schools are private, and are 100% allowed to explain and actively partake in Catholic views with students. To provide an example, most Catholic schools make all kids go to mass (when's it during school hours), even if they aren't Catholic.

My point of view is, if you had issue with this: take your kid out of Catholic school.

this is canada we are talking about.

if it was the US and if they are preaching who they should vote for for whatever reason, which many catholic high schools have done, then they should lose their tax exempt status.

Yeh, I didn't understand that they are partially funded by government. I still think a Catholic school, by very definition should be allowed to teach Catholic teaching... like abortion is wrong and practice that. Yet, if where the money comes from is a concern, that should be discussed.

I still don't get how Catholic schools in Canada are receiving tax money. I think that's great for them. If it happened down here, you'd see a huge jump in Catholic school enrollment.

I also think that my tax dollars should be used wherever I want my child to learn, including Catholic schools. I shouldn't have to subsidize other families if I want to send my kid to Catholic schools. But, that's my opinion.

_

cincybearcat wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I agree with this. Do you feel the same way about the kids at OWS?

how is this related to this topic?

this issue is not about protesting, it is about kids being rewarded with school credit for protesting on one side of a two sided argument. last i checked no kids were getting school credit for protesting with or against the OWS protests...

I was interested in what they thought?

I'll check with you first next time, ok? Seriously, your panties must be wedge way up your ass all the time with how often you jump in to jump on people anymore.

It's fine with me for gimme to speak for me on this post. I agree with what he said.

If other publicly-funded elementary schools are indoctrinating children to support the leadership's partisan political views, and creating a system that pressures them to protest, and providing school credit for participating in protests while not giving equal credit to those who want to protest in support of opposing views... then I don't support that, regardless of the issue. If that's what's happening to the children in the OWS protests then, yes, I feel the same way about it.

_

inlet13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

I may be wrong here, but if it's a Catholic school, right? If so, I don't see anything wrong with this. It's Catholic dogma (teaching), that abortion is murder.

Moreover, Catholic schools are private, and are 100% allowed to explain and actively partake in Catholic views with students. To provide an example, most Catholic schools make all kids go to mass (when's it during school hours), even if they aren't Catholic.

My point of view is, if you had issue with this: take your kid out of Catholic school.

this is canada we are talking about.

if it was the US and if they are preaching who they should vote for for whatever reason, which many catholic high schools have done, then they should lose their tax exempt status.

Yeh, I didn't understand that they are partially funded by government. I still think a Catholic school, by very definition should be allowed to teach Catholic teaching... like abortion is wrong and practice that. Yet, if where the money comes from is a concern, that should be discussed.

I still don't get how Catholic schools in Canada are receiving tax money. I think that's great for them. If it happened down here, you'd see a huge jump in Catholic school enrollment.

I also think that my tax dollars should be used wherever I want my child to learn, including Catholic schools. I shouldn't have to subsidize other families if I want to send my kid to Catholic schools. But, that's my opinion.

I think there's difference between saying, "This is what the Pope says about abortion" and creating a system where children are encouraged to participate in specific partisan political activity as an official function of the school.

inlet13

_ wrote:

I think there's difference between saying, "This is what the Pope says about abortion" and creating a system where children are encouraged to participate in specific partisan political activity as an official function of the school.

That's great, but what I'm saying is this is what Catholics believe. It's Catholic teaching. It's a Catholic school. You HAVE to go to mass at Catholic schools. Why? Because it's Catholic school.

If you don't believe what they believe, don't go to school there. If you're mad at the government regarding this, say something to government.

But, Catholics being active in what they believe is just like a capitalist buying something or a communist picketing about equality. It's equivalent to a Muslim facing mecca when they pray. You can get mad all you want about it, but it's what they believe and they are being active on that particular subject.

_

inlet13 wrote:

_ wrote:

I think there's difference between saying, "This is what the Pope says about abortion" and creating a system where children are encouraged to participate in specific partisan political activity as an official function of the school.

That's great, but what I'm saying is this is what Catholics believe. It's Catholic teaching. It's a Catholic school. You HAVE to go to mass at Catholic schools. Why? Because it's Catholic school.

If you don't believe what they believe, don't go to school there. If you're mad at the government regarding this, say something to government.

But, Catholics being active in what they believe is just like a capitalist buying something or a communist picketing about equality. It's equivalent to a Muslim facing mecca when they pray. You can get mad all you want about it, but it's what they believe and they are being active on that particular subject.

It's just not the place of the school to officially sponsor political activity. It's their place to educate. Educating about "what Catholics believe" is fine. Telling the government what you think is great. But it's the place of the school to educate - not protest; protest should be individual action which represents the individual (possibly) as a Catholic, not as a member of the school.

I work at a school that receives public funding. We're a medical school, in fact, so it is our place to have an opinion on medical issues like abortion. But if I want to protest, I have to be very clear that I'm speaking as an individual and that I don't represent the school - and I certainly can't get paid (or get school credit) for it. I have to take leave.

Plus, it's discrimination to give credit to people with one belief but not give credit to people with differing beliefs. And I can assure you that not all Catholics are anti-abortion just because the Pope says they should be. In fact, Catholics actually have a higher abortion rate than Protestants.

cincybearcat

You know, what would people think about a public school giving kids school credits for going door to door drumming up support for a school levy/property tax increase?

There is no way for this to be ok while receiving public funds.

inlet13

_ wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

_ wrote:

I think there's difference between saying, "This is what the Pope says about abortion" and creating a system where children are encouraged to participate in specific partisan political activity as an official function of the school.

That's great, but what I'm saying is this is what Catholics believe. It's Catholic teaching. It's a Catholic school. You HAVE to go to mass at Catholic schools. Why? Because it's Catholic school.

If you don't believe what they believe, don't go to school there. If you're mad at the government regarding this, say something to government.

But, Catholics being active in what they believe is just like a capitalist buying something or a communist picketing about equality. It's equivalent to a Muslim facing mecca when they pray. You can get mad all you want about it, but it's what they believe and they are being active on that particular subject.

It's just not the place of the school to officially sponsor political activity. It's their place to educate. Educating about "what Catholics believe" is fine. Telling the government what you think is great. But it's the place of the school to educate - not protest; protest should be individual action which represents the individual (possibly) as a Catholic, not as a member of the school.

I work at a school that receives public funding. We're a medical school, in fact, so it is our place to have an opinion on medical issues like abortion. But if I want to protest, I have to be very clear that I'm speaking as an individual and that I don't represent the school - and I certainly can't get paid (or get school credit) for it. I have to take leave.

Plus, it's discrimination to give credit to people with one belief but not give credit to people with differing beliefs. And I can assure you that not all Catholics are anti-abortion just because the Pope says they should be. In fact, Catholics actually have a higher abortion rate than Protestants.

It's not discrimination to give credit to people with one belief if that belief is what the school teaches. It's Catholic teaching that abortion is murder. You go to Catholic school, you learn abortion is murder. That's that.

Anyway, I actually don't think we're far removed on this subject other than this:

I think Catholics should be able to whatever the F they want to do in their school. If government is funding it, I get why it suddenly becomes an issue to someone like yourself. I understand why you think "because of the public funds" they shouldn't do that. But, my response is... "then complain about the public funds".

I want to banish this whole thought that government can control people, even if I don't agree with them. Personally, I'm tired of it.

So, get the government out of the Catholic school, if that's your issue... don't tell them to get the Catholic out of Catholic school.... that's what makes it Catholic school.

inlet13

cincybearcat wrote:

You know, what would people think about a public school giving kids school credits for going door to door drumming up support for a school levy/property tax increase?

There is no way for this to be ok while receiving public funds.

Is it OK for this school to make their students to attend mass?

cincybearcat

inlet13 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

You know, what would people think about a public school giving kids school credits for going door to door drumming up support for a school levy/property tax increase?

There is no way for this to be ok while receiving public funds.

Is it OK for this school to make their students to attend mass?

Great question. I guess I need to know more about the school and it's public funds.

Of course, it's in Canada right?

blueandwhite

This is why nobody respects education anymore. Picketing doesn't teach students to think critically, nor does it prepare them for the workplace. I don't care what these students are picketing for; the fact that they are receiving credit for this is nonsense. If this was a project the students developed independently in a civics class in order to exercise their freedom of speech to implement a change in government I wouldn't have an issue, but it seems that this picketing is being driven by the administration. Using students to force a political agenda is just wrong.

If this school is going to throw away its academic integrity, why not simply give every student a high school diploma and a 97% average so they can buy their way into the sham colleges of their choice?

Loulou

blueandwhite wrote:

This is why nobody respects education anymore. Picketing doesn't teach students to think critically, nor does it prepare them for the workplace. I don't care what these students are picketing for; the fact that they are receiving credit for this is nonsense. If this was a project the students developed independently in a civics class in order to exercise their freedom of speech to implement a change in government I wouldn't have an issue, but it seems that this picketing is being driven by the administration. Using students to force a political agenda is just wrong.

If this school is going to throw away its academic integrity, why not simply give every student a high school diploma and a 97% average so they can buy their way into the sham colleges of their choice?

Well said :thumbup:
I think this is disgusting. What happens if an already distraught pregnant lady lashes out at them? Will they be prepared for such an occurence?? This is just wrong.