dissent should be embraced

Commy

with all the shits that's wrong with the US, who the fuck are we to judge when a group steps up to fix it?

pjfan021

apparently they're just a bunch of dirty hippies...funny, i guess all those teachers and union members are just a bunch of hippies. i do see the irony, lots of people blast the tea party as racist, and there are a few no doubt, but i don't think that the whole movement is...but to say that the OWS protests are misguided seems kind of moronic.

Byrnzie

The Tea Party weren't, and aren't, interested in fixing anything. If that was their aim then where were they when Bush was in office? The Tea Party are a knee-jerk reaction to a black democratic president. That's all.

brianlux

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Jeanwah

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

mikepegg44

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

Part of the government "owning up" would be to get the fuck out of the favor doing business. That is very similar to people wanting the government out of the private sectors way...they are very similar...the only thing that drives them apart is the constant energy people spend making sure everyone knows the differences rather than the similarities. Basically one side blames the government for crony capitalism, one side blames corporations and the top 1% for getting the benefits from the government. It is kind of a chicken egg thing...ultimately the 1% wouldn't have a stranglehold on the economy if the government didn't set up laws to keep it that way...but the government maybe wouldn't have laws set up that way without pressure from the 1%...so why not break them up...vote for people not part of the establishment...vote for people who will stand on principle, vote for people who won't be influenced by special interests...whom who does that sound like...

If any of the Occupiers support Obama in the next election than their movement means nothing.

VINNY GOOMBA

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

A major reason why libertarians became so energized at the end of the Bush administration had to do with TARP and all of the bailouts-- which IS government getting involved in our business by taking our money and giving it to bailout a corrupt banking system. There is much common ground between the original Tea Party and the current (and probably soon to be similarly co-opted) Occupy movement, and that is exactly it. If the Occupiers are all about stopping corporate greed, surely the best place for them to start would be to stop the gravy train from the government to these mega banks.

If the people of this country would focus on stopping the merger of big business and the government, big business will look less like Wall Street in its current incarnation, and more like Apple. Sure, they're not 100% saints over at Apple either, I'm sure. But no one has ever been able to force me to buy their product or service, even when I do not use it directly. I cannot say the same for GM, Chevy, Raytheon, Halliburton, KBR, Monsanto, AIG, Goldman Sachs, etc...

VINNY GOOMBA

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

Part of the government "owning up" would be to get the fuck out of the favor doing business. That is very similar to people wanting the government out of the private sectors way...they are very similar...the only thing that drives them apart is the constant energy people spend making sure everyone knows the differences rather than the similarities. Basically one side blames the government for crony capitalism, one side blames corporations and the top 1% for getting the benefits from the government. It is kind of a chicken egg thing...ultimately the 1% wouldn't have a stranglehold on the economy if the government didn't set up laws to keep it that way...but the government maybe wouldn't have laws set up that way without pressure from the 1%...so why not break them up...vote for people not part of the establishment...vote for people who will stand on principle, vote for people who won't be influenced by special interests...whom who does that sound like...

If any of the Occupiers support Obama in the next election than their movement means nothing.

Jeanwah

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

Part of the government "owning up" would be to get the fuck out of the favor doing business. That is very similar to people wanting the government out of the private sectors way...they are very similar...the only thing that drives them apart is the constant energy people spend making sure everyone knows the differences rather than the similarities. Basically one side blames the government for crony capitalism, one side blames corporations and the top 1% for getting the benefits from the government. It is kind of a chicken egg thing...ultimately the 1% wouldn't have a stranglehold on the economy if the government didn't set up laws to keep it that way...but the government maybe wouldn't have laws set up that way without pressure from the 1%...so why not break them up...vote for people not part of the establishment...vote for people who will stand on principle, vote for people who won't be influenced by special interests...whom who does that sound like...

If any of the Occupiers support Obama in the next election than their movement means nothing.

Dude, there is no such thing as a politician that's not affiliated with the establishment, as well as not being paid by special interests or has the people's interest FIRST. It's an oxymoron. ALL politicians are in it for the money, and lifetime pension.

mikepegg44

Jeanwah wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

Part of the government "owning up" would be to get the fuck out of the favor doing business. That is very similar to people wanting the government out of the private sectors way...they are very similar...the only thing that drives them apart is the constant energy people spend making sure everyone knows the differences rather than the similarities. Basically one side blames the government for crony capitalism, one side blames corporations and the top 1% for getting the benefits from the government. It is kind of a chicken egg thing...ultimately the 1% wouldn't have a stranglehold on the economy if the government didn't set up laws to keep it that way...but the government maybe wouldn't have laws set up that way without pressure from the 1%...so why not break them up...vote for people not part of the establishment...vote for people who will stand on principle, vote for people who won't be influenced by special interests...whom who does that sound like...

If any of the Occupiers support Obama in the next election than their movement means nothing.

Dude, there is no such thing as a politician that's not affiliated with the establishment, as well as not being paid by special interests or has the people's interest FIRST. It's an oxymoron.

Then don't vote for a politician

bgivens33

pjfan021 wrote:

apparently they're just a bunch of dirty hippies...funny, i guess all those teachers and union members are just a bunch of hippies. i do see the irony, lots of people blast the tea party as racist, and there are a few no doubt, but i don't think that the whole movement is...but to say that the OWS protests are misguided seems kind of moronic.

I don't think their cause is necessarily misguided, but their method certainly is. Why aren't they protesting the White House or the Capital? Wall Street isn't passing any laws or writing legislation.

VINNY GOOMBA

bgivens33 wrote:

pjfan021 wrote:

apparently they're just a bunch of dirty hippies...funny, i guess all those teachers and union members are just a bunch of hippies. i do see the irony, lots of people blast the tea party as racist, and there are a few no doubt, but i don't think that the whole movement is...but to say that the OWS protests are misguided seems kind of moronic.

I don't think their cause is necessarily misguided, but their method certainly is. Why aren't they protesting the White House or the Capital? Wall Street isn't passing any laws or writing legislation.

They should be outside The Fed in all 13 major locations throughout the country.

mickeyrat

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
Abraham Lincoln



Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successors to bullets.
Abraham Lincoln



I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.
Abraham Lincoln


The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.
Abraham Lincoln



These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.
Abraham Lincoln


This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.
Abraham Lincoln

cincybearcat

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

I think they are pretty similar.

The OWS group originally were people that wanted the government and Wall Street owning up....only to be adopted by Unions and Democrats.

They are very similar in the fact that in their pure form they are their best. But neither will really help because they will be taken over by the machine and used for political gain.

mickeyrat

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
Abraham Lincoln


We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Thomas Jefferson


I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

bgivens33

cincybearcat wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-Howard Zinn

"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots."
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Right on.

I don't understand how people can correlate the tea party with the OWS protesters. The Tea Party originally were Libertarians wanting gov't out of their business, only to be adopted by Republicans. OWS is about gov't and Wall St. owning up to their own corrupt corporatism and is a movement of taking our country back from the top 1%. There's not much correlation there!

I think they are pretty similar.

The OWS group originally were people that wanted the government and Wall Street owning up....only to be adopted by Unions and Democrats.

They are very similar in the fact that in their pure form they are their best. But neither will really help because they will be taken over by the machine and used for political gain.

Perfectly stated.

Chip McFlennigan

Dissent is beloved around here, unless, of course, it's dissent against Obama. We don't stand for that shit on AMT.

Jason P

Byrnzie wrote:

The Tea Party weren't, and aren't, interested in fixing anything. If that was their aim then where were they when Bush was in office? The Tea Party are a knee-jerk reaction to a black democratic president. That's all.

Why is Herman Cain so popular with the Tea Party then? Shouldn't they be blasting his 9/9/9 plan to pieces because they hate the color of his skin?

Any thoughts?

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

The Tea Party weren't, and aren't, interested in fixing anything. If that was their aim then where were they when Bush was in office? The Tea Party are a knee-jerk reaction to a black democratic president. That's all.

Why is Herman Cain so popular with the Tea Party then? Shouldn't they be blasting his 9/9/9 plan to pieces because they hate the color of his skin?

Any thoughts?

token?

That is the problem with the criticism of the tea party and the occupy movement...they take a small action of a couple of people extrapolate that out to be what the movement is about. The occupy movement isn't about dirty hippies, and the tea party isn't about racism.

But it is easier than actually finding out they agree on something.

Jason P

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

The Tea Party weren't, and aren't, interested in fixing anything. If that was their aim then where were they when Bush was in office? The Tea Party are a knee-jerk reaction to a black democratic president. That's all.

Why is Herman Cain so popular with the Tea Party then? Shouldn't they be blasting his 9/9/9 plan to pieces because they hate the color of his skin?

Any thoughts?

token?

That is the problem with the criticism of the tea party and the occupy movement...they take a small action of a couple of people extrapolate that out to be what the movement is about. The occupy movement isn't about dirty hippies, and the tea party isn't about racism.

But it is easier than actually finding out they agree on something.

It's ironic that both groups are fighting the same thing ... the affects of federal government manipulation.

I think it's good that both groups raising their voices to the national stage. I just hope that the Occupy Wall Street group realizes that raising taxes actually gives more power to what they despise.

Jeanwah

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Dude, there is no such thing as a politician that's not affiliated with the establishment, as well as not being paid by special interests or has the people's interest FIRST. It's an oxymoron.

Then don't vote for a politician

:? I'll vote for Kermit the frog then... WTF??