Global Warming Discussion
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,432
In various threads here on AMT I keep reading posts denying global warming as anthropocentrically caused and even more baffling, the denial of global warming in general, human generated or otherwise. Why is this? Denial of what is feared would be my guess. I don't know that any of us here will convince global warming denialists that it is real and is anthropocentric in nature but I'm willing to keep trying because I believe this is the most important issue we as a species will have to deal with over the next several years. If any of you that have doubts about global warming, let's start an intelligent conversation about it. In a number of AMT threads, I've listed several excellent sources of information on the subject. I'll compile a list of books and resources for anyone interested. Of course, any one here has the right to disagree with global warming as reality, but if you do, at least let your arguments be somewhat intelligent. Accusing someone, for example, of posting "global warming crap" does not qualify as an intelligent argument. (I'm not setting any rules here- that's not my job- I would just like to encourage rational, intelligent conversation.)
Also, those of you who are convinced global warming is real, lets share ideas about how to slow down the process.
Also, those of you who are convinced global warming is real, lets share ideas about how to slow down the process.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
i work for a fairly big corporation and i convinced my executive board to adopt a environmental sustainability strategy because it made good business sense ... they were all hampered by misconceptions initially but it didn't take much to convince them to change their tune ...
Right now, there is no solution. Alternative energy is nothing more than supplemental energy. The world isn't going to start conserving energy until we are literally running out. Everyone has seen those, decrease energy use by 20%, increase alternatives by 40% graphs and we would be completely off fossil fuels. It is all crap, and it will never happen. Did you just buy an electric car? Great, but you just plugged it into part of the 70% of the country's energy grid that still comes from hydrocarbons.
The truth of the matter is only a small small percentage of the country actually cares. People love to complain about big oil, but wouldn't dare to actually give up using gasoline(or plastic for that matter).
Our country needs to stop pouring money into technology that has no future(like wind mills) and get serious about solving our energy needs. Our world isn't sustainable off current so called "renewable energy". Once we can all stop pretending it is, we might be able to find a fix. Let's stop wasting money on companies like Solyandra and give the money to NREL or one of the universities for research.
First, you're having a discussion on a rock band's message board. No one here is some great intellectual thinker. Even if they were, they are just wasting their time at a rock band's message board. So, chillax.
Second, did you ever think that what you read and source is inherently bias? Because as soon as I read two or three sentences of the sources you post, it's evident to me.
Third, when certain people try to derail threads on other topics because they are fixated with global warming, did you ever think they are wrong?
Fourth, you're awful lonely if you think global warming is the "most important issue we as a species will deal with over the next several years". Look at the economy. I'd think most normal humans would say that's a bigger issue over the "next several years". Seriously, that comment alone is enough for someone to cast someone as a loon.
Fifth, I personally believe that regardless of whether global warming is real and man-made or not... there are some who are abusing the topic to promote social welfare policies, and in doing, are purposefully limiting economic growth because they are so mind-warped that they really believe a growing economy is bad. I believe if there really is an issue with global warming, it won't be solved using those "social welfare" techniques, and in fact, will actually have even worse consequences for an average man (see our faltering economy and debt problems) and what will actually be "the most important issue we as a species will deal with over the next several years".
Fifth, I truly believe that no one, including you, knows with 100% absolute certainty whether global warming is man-made, real, and going to be a huge catastrophe. That's my opinion. You are entitled to yours.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
but the rest is good and at least honest
— Socrates
Loon? That's pretty rude.
I appreciate peoples concern for the planet. Fuck the economy. Who cares if you can't breath clean air or not get cancer from the shit in your water.
I doubt Brianlux will be lonely thinking that the planets health is one of the most important issues we face. In fact, I'm surprised it took us this long to realize that our pollution and energy consumption could be damaging. I once found a guy dead in his car in the garage from suicide, breathing the toxic fumes from his exhaust. Seems like a bit of a concern to me what millions of automobiles are doing to our environment.
As far as what to do about it, I'm not really sure. If it wasnt so damn hot in my town, I'd ride my bike everywhere. I turn off ALL of my appliances and a/c everyday when I leave the house...Alternative fuels are not going to fix everything, but might be a step in the right direction.
this is not true ... we can solve our energy consumption needs with renewables ... the game has been rigged too long for polluting sources such as oil and coal ... but you are right on one thing ... no one cares - if they did, we wouldn't be in this mess ...
Exactly what renewables do you think have the capacity or energy to replace hydrocarbons?
solar, wind, recapturing, etc. ... but first and foremost, there needs to be a evaluation of consumption ... we treat energy like most of our resources in that we think it's unlimited ... if we paid the true cost of energy, we would be smarter with it ... subsidies have put us in this position ... it's ridiculous the amount of energy we waste ...
But nobody is going to do that. That is nothing more than a feel good talking point. What I'm suggesting is we stop wasting time with fantasy discussion about reducing energy consumption and increasing renewable energy use. Wind energy is garbage, it will never, never do anything but supplement our current energy use. Solar energy is more interesting. It is the only(practical) energy source that is 100% efficient(by mass). The amount of energy hitting the earth every day is enormous but our technology isn't up to date. If this country was serious about energy, we would stop clinging to fantasies of our current energy and take all the money we waste subsidizing current energy sources and dump it all into research. As of right now, we just don't have the technology to sustain a growing world without hydrocarbons.
I am thinking the last thread on gays in the military may or may not have given him the read only. That was the last time i saw a post form him anyway...POD too for that matter
Probably just a timeout, I doubt it is permanent
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Ah, your right, well happens to the best of us.
people ARE doing that ... i'm sorry but this is akin to people will continue to drive drunk so let's focus on making it viable so cars can be driven while inebriated ...
germany is moving to a 80% renewable energy source by 2050 ... in 2010, they were at 17% already ... with wind leading the way ...
We've seen an average temperature rise of like .1 degree in the last 40 years. Which is pretty much the same pace as it's been since the last ice age. It's a pattern. The Earth warms, the Earth cools, stuff lives, stuff dies.
Won't effect the next 10 generations, so not really worried about it. We'll probably blow ourselves up long before it becomes an issue.
Is what humans are doing having a damaging effect on the planet? Of course. One need look no further than the smog that hovers over LA on a consistent basis. So, focus on that and fixing that stuff than Global Warming that really has not been proven any more than any other ideological theory slanted by agendas.
We can't even get people to stop polluting their lungs with a pack a day when we KNOW that is a guaranteed life shortener.
I think you need to stop starting threads with the premise that anyone that disagrees with you is wrong (I know - this is the AMT - it's a way of life). This has to be like the 15th of these since the last time you said you were only preaching goodness. Why load the question with a title ending in Denial, when there is no consensus to that fact? Your sceintific proof will read it exists. Mine does not. And we're probably both wrong. In the mean time, let's focus on issues that we can hopefully solve and there is no debate about. There's enough of those that built on top of one another will lead to your ultimate goal.
pretty much every country accepts the science of global warming including the US ... we have conferences around the world trying to figure it out ... but everyone involved is pimping some agenda!? ... :roll:
good grief man ... the science is not that hard to understand ... take 20 mins and learn about it ...
Ah!!! So, if we have conferences, it must be true. So Star Trek was true. Good to know.
BTW, your statements are not true.
Now, every country has people that accept it. But, there's also science the disputes it.
Again, if you read carefully, I am not denying that the Earth is warming. It's a matter of degrees (no pun intended). I believe a scientist even left the Nobel board (I'm probably wrong on that exact thing, but it was some internationally recognized organization) over this very fact.
So, no, it is not globally accepted.
Any science book will verify the fact that 99% of scientists willingly acknowledge climate change. Only 1% does not. YOU obviously stand with that 1%.
But it's more like 98% of scientists that concur and it scares the crap out of me for our children.
That's actually the point I was making. There's nothing wrong with getting us off oil. But, why use rhetoric that only half the folks subscribe to (those %ages are over stated. Just because someone doesn't publish, doesn't mean they don't have a view. Global warming is the sexy idea). But, I digress. Let's push these worthy programs and ideas for their face value. You might make more headway.
If there is such thing as global warming, this is not the first time it's ever happened. Everyone knows the Ice Age ended because the cavemen didn't drive hybrid cars, right?
Now....is it good to recycle...yes! Does Man destroy the earth.....yes! Does the earth cleanse itself?....yes
The way to battle global warming and climate change is through innovation and hard work! Not to slow the economy down due to CO2 regulations, emissions, etc. This needs to be dealt with by moving forward in a prosperous way! China and India will not follow rules and regulations that any global gov. body puts forth! USA will lose and China and India will win! The Democrats perverted ways of using this issue for political gain is ass backwards and non constructive for our economy and jobs! A strong US economy is the best way out of this mess! China is the worlds number one polluter! If you want to slow down our economy with liberal policies......then make China do it first and set the standard!
remember....Al Gore said that DC would not be getting any more snow right now! LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
He played off your fears! He played off your fears!! He plays off your fears!!!! He plays off your fears!!!!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
+1. thank you.
"The planet will be fine, it's the PEOPLE WHO ARE FUCKED!!!'
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
I’ll try my best to stay on track in addressing you points:
1. Yes, this is a rock band message board but AMT is a place where (hopefully) intelligent people come to share ideas. Also, you tell me to “chillax”. I’m not so sure I’m the one who sounds up tight here.
2. I read all sources of information on global warming pro and con. In well thought out expository writing, an essay usually begins with a general premise. If you would read past the first few sentences of what I post you might learn something.
3. I’ll accept that you believe there are people who try to “derail threads” by talking about global warming but I don’t agree- I think that is a matter of opinion so let’s move on.
4. I’m not alone nor do I feel alone and you will have no success bating me with name-calling (“loon”- I’m not insane and I have no feathers). I don’t believe that’s necessary here. By your own words you imply that I am not a “normal human”. What is that about? At the very least this verges on more name-calling.
5. You say, “…there are some who are abusing the topic to promote social welfare policies, and in doing, are purposefully limiting economic growth because they are so mind-warped [more name-calling] that they really believe a growing economy is bad.”
I’ve read and studied global warming since around 1989 when first book (that I know of) that addressed this issue was published - Bill McKibben’s THE END OF NATURE- and in all that reading and research have never come across anyone “abusing the topic to promote social welfare policies”. There is a vast amount of information (some has already been provided for you in this thread) that shows how fighting global warming can be beneficial to a healthy economy and that defining a healthy economy as endless growth is, indeed, harmful. (For example, do you really believe the earth contains a limitless ability to absorb CO2 or that out planet contains an endless supply of resources?) And as Yvon Chounard so aptly put it, in collapsed ecosystems there are no political, social or economic issues to deal with.
5. [You wrote “fifth” twice] I won’t argue 100% certainty about anything and I won’t start here. I do personally believe beyond a doubt that global warming is real and anthropogenic and I respect your right to disagree but I do not respect name-calling. If you’re not interest in a civil conversation and if you continue to bate or label me, from here on out I will ignore your posts.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's not that hard to understand if you suffer from conformation bias.
--I honestly don't think we can stop global warming either but I'm fairly certain we can slow it down.
--I think much of the world is starting to conserve energy- I have been making efforts to do so for years. I'm sorry you take such a bleak view that way though I can understand the temptation to do so.
--I agree that electic cars are not the ultimate solution. I have posted many times elsewhere ideas about local economy, walkable communities, improving and expanding rail service (the most efficient means of moving good and people about) and, of course, limiting our driving.
--It absolutely true! Not enough people care! That's why I put together this post. What are you doing about it? We need your help!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What am i doing? I consume less and recycle more! I also teach others that consumption should be paid attn to! There own consumption with eveything from water usage to lights out...to recycling!
I however think the left and the liberals use this issue for more political expedience in the way they pervert it and use it to divide our nation! The world seeks to slow down the USA and this is the biggest method in doing so!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
What am i doing? I consume less and recycle more! I also teach others that consumption should be paid attn to! There own consumption with eveything from water usage to lights out...to recycling!
I however think the left and the liberals use this issue for more political expedience in the way they pervert it and use it to divide our nation! The world seeks to slow down the USA and this is the biggest method in doing so!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!