Where are all the anti gun activist on here?
WaveCameCrashin
Posts: 2,929
So I guess the anti gun actavist think it's ok that this is going on.Not one thread on the AMT.Two border patrol agents are dead and there are no telling how many other crimes or killings have been committed in Mexico bcos of this. Eric holder should resign immediately. And if this had been a Republican president people would be calling for him to be impeached. Yet the left is completely ignoring this story for the most part. Why I ask?
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/03/eric-holder-personally-named-in-new-fast-and-furious-documents/
New documents indicate Attorney General Eric Holder was informed of Operation Fast and Furious and its investigative tactics in mid-2010.
The new documents show that on November 1, 2010, Deputy Attorney General Lanny Breuer, the chief of the Justice Department’s criminal division, personally informed Holder about the operation in a briefing. The document was a memo Breuer wrote to Holder saying in which he included a brief description of Operation Fast and Furious.
Another document is a July 2010 memo from the director of the National Drug Intelligence Center to Holder that details how “straw purchasers” — enabled by Operation Fast and Furious — were responsible for the purchase of 1,500 guns that were then supplied to Mexican drug cartels.
Straw purchasers are people who can legally buy weapons in the United States but do so with the known intention of trafficking them to Mexican drug cartels.
The Justice Department responded to this new information by saying that Holder receives many updates, memos and briefings daily and doesn’t always read them all — even if official records show he was informed of the intimate details of a case.
In early May, Holder told House oversight committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa that he was “not sure of the exact date [he first learned of Fast and Furious], but I probably heard about Fast and Furious over the last few weeks.”
These new documents indicate Holder may have committed perjury while testifying under oath, depending on the legal readings of his statements and all the evidence. It’s unclear at this point what, if anything, will happen next on that front.
Another document released contained internal emails between several high-ranking Justice Department officials asking if Breuer would help with a then-forthcoming press conference on Fast and Furious because the number of guns DOJ and ATF officials allowed to be “walked” into Mexico was significant. Allowing guns to “walk” means ATF and other law enforcement officials facilitated the sale of weapons to drug cartels via straw purchasers.
“It is not going to be any big surprise that a bunch of U.S. guns are being used in [Mexico], so I’m not sure how much grief we get for gun walking,” one high-ranking DOJ official wrote in an email.
That was in response to another high-ranking official who, after asking if they would have “Lanny” help with press, wrote: “It’s [Operation Fast and Furious] a tricky case, given the number of guns that have walked, but it is a significant set of prosecutions.”
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/03/eric-holder-personally-named-in-new-fast-and-furious-documents/
New documents indicate Attorney General Eric Holder was informed of Operation Fast and Furious and its investigative tactics in mid-2010.
The new documents show that on November 1, 2010, Deputy Attorney General Lanny Breuer, the chief of the Justice Department’s criminal division, personally informed Holder about the operation in a briefing. The document was a memo Breuer wrote to Holder saying in which he included a brief description of Operation Fast and Furious.
Another document is a July 2010 memo from the director of the National Drug Intelligence Center to Holder that details how “straw purchasers” — enabled by Operation Fast and Furious — were responsible for the purchase of 1,500 guns that were then supplied to Mexican drug cartels.
Straw purchasers are people who can legally buy weapons in the United States but do so with the known intention of trafficking them to Mexican drug cartels.
The Justice Department responded to this new information by saying that Holder receives many updates, memos and briefings daily and doesn’t always read them all — even if official records show he was informed of the intimate details of a case.
In early May, Holder told House oversight committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa that he was “not sure of the exact date [he first learned of Fast and Furious], but I probably heard about Fast and Furious over the last few weeks.”
These new documents indicate Holder may have committed perjury while testifying under oath, depending on the legal readings of his statements and all the evidence. It’s unclear at this point what, if anything, will happen next on that front.
Another document released contained internal emails between several high-ranking Justice Department officials asking if Breuer would help with a then-forthcoming press conference on Fast and Furious because the number of guns DOJ and ATF officials allowed to be “walked” into Mexico was significant. Allowing guns to “walk” means ATF and other law enforcement officials facilitated the sale of weapons to drug cartels via straw purchasers.
“It is not going to be any big surprise that a bunch of U.S. guns are being used in [Mexico], so I’m not sure how much grief we get for gun walking,” one high-ranking DOJ official wrote in an email.
That was in response to another high-ranking official who, after asking if they would have “Lanny” help with press, wrote: “It’s [Operation Fast and Furious] a tricky case, given the number of guns that have walked, but it is a significant set of prosecutions.”
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
how is this a partisan thing? ... america is the worlds largest arms dealer ... both sides of the aisle support the military industrial complex ... one aspect of that is finding ways to sell guns wherever there is a market ... and when sales are down ... manufacture a market if needed ...
i am sorry if my position sounds cold and heartless, but my concern lies not with those on the border playing army, but with the thousands of people who are out of work, lost their homes, and are starving. those are the ones that should be the priority.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Wow.. Gimmie. I'm really surprised you would even say such a thing. Those border patrol agents had kids who now don't have a father.what if this was one of your family members? This would have never happened if the AFT didn't tell gun shop owners to let straw purchasers purchase guns. Which were later sold to the Mexican drug cartels. Now that doesn't mean something else could have happened to them, But to be murdered by members of a cartel from guns that were knowingly sold to them from an operation that the ATF was conducting should be outrage to people. And those border patrol agents who you say are "playing army" are protecting our country. But I guess if it were up to you we would have open borders and people could just come and go as they please. Not knowing who they are and what their intentions might be. Do I have that about right?
I'm sorry, but I can't hold my tongue on this. Your statement absolutely disgusts me. I am in awe over your complete lack of caring for two individuals who were killed while performing their job. I've read some of your posts anyway so I am not surprised. Hey who cares right, just two more dead cops for you and your irk to celebrate about.
Do you even realize what happened ? This has nothing to do with the " military industrial complex" or the military at all for that matter. This story is not getting the coverage it should by the main stream media. It's a huge scandal and cover up.
On December 15, 2010, Brian Terry was murdered. Brian was a BORTAC Border Patrol Agent, considered among the most dedicated and trained. Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA) and Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) are conducting an investigation to find out those involved, the facts behind this operation, and the cover-up that has ensued. American Thinker interviewed Brian Terry's stepmother as well as participated in a conference call conducted by Congressman Issa about this case.
In a 2009 operation called "Fast and Furious," ATF requested that gun shop owners sell guns, including AK47s, to straw buyers from the Mexican drug cartels. There were approximately 2,500 weapons involved, and to date, only 600 have been recovered. ATF field agents complained that allowing these guns into the hands of criminals set a bad precedent. Terry is proof of this since he was shot and killed by illegal immigrants during a gunfight. In addition to Terry, Issa reported that at least 200 Mexican civilians have been killed with these weapons. Congress is investigating the cover-up by ATF and others, since three guns found at the scene of the Terry murder were guns smuggled during the "Fast and Furious" operation.
Congressman Issa believes that Terry's shooting was the "smoking gun." If not for Terry's death, guns might still be smuggled across the border, and many more deaths might have resulted. The congressman sees a lot of panic occurring among those involved and notes that "when Gabby Giffords was shot and a federal judge assassinated, this was a time when everyone down there and certainly those on the inside were panicking that the weapon used was a Fast and Furious weapon."
The congressman is also wondering what people at the top knew since they are pleading ignorance. Why were people like Attorney General Eric Holder not briefed? Issa told the bloggers, "This administration is giving information in redacted form. Eric Holder did not know it because he either did not want to know or was not doing his job. We already have a cover-up. The failure to turn over documents shows a pattern of concealment and wrongdoing. It is a little hard to get the Justice Department to prosecute the Justice Department."
Carolyn Terry, Brian's stepmom, is torn about the Arizona gun shop owners' involvement because she thinks they should have used better judgment; yet, she understands that they thought they were doing the right thing since they were told the guns were being tracked and people were being arrested.
David Greenberg, an Arizona gun shop owner, is frustrated with the government's ineptness and does not believe that the gun shop owners should be blamed. He told ATF, after he was approached, that his shop, only a few miles from the border, would allow the criminals to have an easy escape route. He commented that in April 2011, he was told to put up a poster that said, in Spanish and English, "'It is illegal to take guns across the border.' I told ATF they need to put that poster up in their office."
Terry's stepmother lays most of the blame with Holder and Janet Napolitano, who she believes are somehow involved; she "does not believe a word Eric Holder and Janet Napolitano are saying." Issa describes Napolitano as someone who "seems to know everything and be running everything until something goes wrong. This is an organization where freedom of information is an oxymoron."
Carolyn Terry, besides putting the blame squarely on the Obama administration, also has a strong resentment of them. She wants those involved prosecuted because "our son would still be alive if they had not done what they did. I cannot understand what was the purpose of Fast and Furious. In a roundabout way, they encouraged trafficking. There are so many unanswered questions. We cannot even mourn our son's death because there is no closure."
The unanswered questions for Terry's stepmom include who made the call to sell the guns, who killed her son, and who knew about it. Unfortunately, no one in Justice is willing to answer these questions, and since most of the time they never returned her phone calls, she has quit calling. The one person sent to talk with the Terry family in March was Dennis Burke, the U.S. attorney for the District of Arizona. Terry feels that Burke outright lied to her, since he "told us ATF did not have the gun that killed Brian, which was strange since up until that point we were told the opposite. He was so involved and was covering up to protect himself and others. Just last week, e-mails came out where they talked about that gun, the third gun. Burke's office is right in the middle of this, and our son's death is the result of their actions. They don't have a clue what we are going through." She is glad that Burke has resigned and that the pending case was moved from Arizona to San Diego.
Terry is also grateful for the Congressional Investigative Committees headed by Issa and Grassley, since "the Committees are the only hope we have. Without Issa and Grassley, this investigation would be going nowhere." Their offices are also in contact with the family and keep them posted about any new updates.
Americans need to understand that the family is frustrated and angry since "we paid the price for this operation; we lost our son. Brian was a great person. If you knew him, you would have liked him. He had such goals. He was a positive person and had everything going for him. Those involved took it away from him and took him away from our family. The loss of our son Brian has changed our whole lives. A day does not go by that we don't think about him."
Congressman Issa feels for all those families who senselessly lost a loved one. He sees "a pattern of indifference toward the rules established about how to deal with deadly weapons." At best, Fast and Furious was a negligent and bungled operation, and at worst, there was an ulterior motive -- possibly to initiate more gun control laws. As Issa summarized, "this operation was dumb, useless, and lethal."
[b[/b]
i know the story ... and the left media has not ignored it ... if you goto democracynow.org - you will see articles on it ...
all i'm saying is that these operations have been going on under both parties ... america has sold guns and weapons to many different people ... many have killed agents before and many have killed innocent women/children ... i just find it troubling that it has become a partisan issue when it's much bigger than that ... and to your point of no one is caring ... where were the people on the right when guns were sold to african warlords?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ok.. I'm glad to see that D.N. Has been covering this, but I was referring to the main news outlets. They may have mentioned it,but they have not been doing any deep investigating. And no on here has mentioned it. Also I did a search in bing for African warlords and guns from America and I couldn't find anything. You say this has been going on under both parties. Can you provide links of some kind?
haha ... the main news outlets!?? ... no, you are definitely not going to find it there ...
just google US arms sales to africa or something of the sort ... it'll get you started ...
I'm sure it ends up with the US gun sales destroying the ozone layer!!!!
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/pjm-exclus ... epage=true
@cincy- rofl
— Socrates
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
He is politically savy enough to not say anything in regards to guns, but his adminstrations actions speak volumes. (Correction he did say one thing and it hints at the scandal that they were helping create, in his 2009 State of the Union he had a line regarding "80% of the guns used by Mexican Drug Cartels are from America", this has since been totally destroyed as the Mexican authorities have agreed that the number is closer to 20%, still not good but not the lie initially put forth)
Reread what has actually happened in the Gunwalker scandal and explain what the hell the point of it all was. Since the Mexicans were not made aware it was not some joint effort, and it was not an effort to uncover the strawbuyers and cut them off. So what was the plan? track the guns to some high level drug lords inside mexico and then what. And even if that was the stated goal, where were the tracking units in the guns? oh wait there never were any, again I say so what was the point then? Give me a sound logic reason for this operation and I will drop the idea that this is a high level government crisis created to sway American opinion that gun ownership and gun retailers in this country needed to be severly regulated.
— Socrates
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
all relaxed now
— Socrates
These are the dates of weekly memos provided by National Drug Intelligence Center Director Michael Walther to Attorney General Eric Holder. Each was a short document that included information on Operation Fast and Furious, including descriptions of the operation as a multi-agency task force targeting a gun trafficking ring headed by Manuel Celis-Acosta that had purchased “1,500 firearms that were then supplied to Mexican drug trafficking cartels.”
The release of these documents from mid-2010 — and supporting documents from Department of Justice insiders discussing “gunwalking” — has led House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-TX) to ask President Obama to appoint a special prosecutor. The special prosecutor would investigate whether or not Attorney General Holder committed perjury when he stated in sworn testimony in March: “ probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.”
Rep. Raul Labrador (R-ID) yesterday called for Holder to resign, and Arizona Senator John McCain is “leaning towards” demanding a special council appointment to investigate.
With the increased attention on the case — including coverage from johnny-come-lately ABC that needed to add a backstory section to get their readers up to speed — the White House and Department of Justice are fighting back, alleging that the growing scandal is nothing but a game of “gotcha” being played by Republicans:
“Here they go again. Chairman Issa and Senator Grassley can re-package and re-release the same documents every other day and it won’t change the facts: the attorney general’s testimony to both the House and Senate committees has been consistent and truthful,” the department said.
The department said the “brief” passages were “buried in a few written reports” and did not detail the full extent of the operation.
“Instead of peddling selectively edited transcripts and distorting questions and answers in some distracting political game of gotcha, these congressional leaders should be focusing their attention on the underlying public safety problem we confront as a nation — that too many guns are being illegally trafficked to Mexico,” the statement said.
It is worth noting: the documents being released are new; the information was not buried, but featured bullet points of weekly summary reports; and there were no “selectively edited” transcripts or “distorted questions.” The DOJ pushback seems rooted in political firefighting, not facts.
Even left-leaning NPR — which seems to doubt Holder’s truthfulness — reported the details of the key question and answer accurately:
At a hearing in March, California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa asked: “When did you first know about the program officially, I believe, called Fast and Furious? To the best of your knowledge, what date?”
Holder replied: “I’m not sure the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.”
Texas Senator John Cornyn blasted President Obama’s forceful defense of his attorney general, claiming that the president was the “the only person left with any confidence” in Holder:
“It is difficult to believe that after memos were sent to his office, ATF officials briefed Congress on Fast and Furious and it was reported in the media, Mr. Holder still didn’t have knowledge of it, as he claims, for several months,” Cornyn, a San Antonio Republican, said in an emailed statement.
The worst news of the week for Holder and Obama may have come last night. Bill O’Reilly interviewed CBSNews investigative reporter Sharyl Attkisson, who has provided the most dogged mainstream media coverage of the administration’s gun-walking plots. O’Reilly asked Attkisson what caused a White House staffer to scream and curse at her several days ago. Her response left little doubt that more damning revelations are to come:
Well, I would say there have been some pretty incredible developments in the past week. Also, documents we haven’t even had time to report on all of them. They are very sensitive documents and allegations going around. Many of them we haven’t reported yet because we need to get more confirmation of them.
But what you see on the surface that we do report in our stories is really only a part of what may be going on and we may be reporting the future when we can get confirmation.
Attkisson may have been alluding to more evidence about Operation Fast and Furious, or perhaps about the nine other alleged gunwalking programs in five states which seem to have been implemented with the singularly practical purpose of getting thousands of weapons into the hands of criminals, both drug cartels and domestic gangs. Using Operation Fast and Furious as a baseline, it is reasonable to assume that if the other gunwalking operations were as productive, the U.S. may have run between 10,000 and 20,00o guns, enough weapons to outfit an entire U.S. Army infantry division.
If these numbers could be verified, it would prove that the Obama administration is the number one U.S. source of cartel guns.
As if things were not bad enough for the White House, Mike Vanderboegh — one of the bloggers who broke the original story linking ATF gunwalking to Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s death — has sources claiming “Obama’s man in the State Department,” (former) Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg, was the State Department operative who helped Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and the Department of Justice Deputy Attorney General David Ogden formulate the strategy that led to the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious.
And a follow-up story asserts what many have long suspected: that Gunwalker came about out of a desire to “pad” the Obama administration’s “90-pecent lie.”
If evidence can be obtained to support these contentions, then perjury is going to be the least of the worries for those involved. As Dave Gibson at the Examiner notes:
With the recent revelation that Attorney General Eric Holder knew about the ATF gun smuggling scheme as early as July 2010, which is nearly a year earlier than he claimed before Congress, the question becomes … Is Eric Holder an accomplice to Agent Brian Terry’s murder?
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu recently pointed out: “If somebody gives a gun to somebody knowing they’re going to commit murder, guess what we call them? … We call them accomplices.”
Bob Owens blogs at Confederate Yankee and Bob's Gun Counter.
— Socrates
your comparisons of what i am assuming is in reference to my words about these 2 dead agents, and troy davis' execution, and the executed american cleric are simply comparisons that can not be made.
these 2 agents knew the risks of their job and they died honorably while doing that job. and it was tragic that weapons my government supplied to the opposition are the same weapons that killed them. people die in the line of duty every day.
troy davis was executed by my own government when his "conviction" was still very much in doubt, and there was evidence that he was wrongly convicted. i have every right to be fucking pissed off about that. you should be too.
also, with the american jihadist, he was a citizen. one of your fellow citizens, sumarily executed by your own government. i have every right to be pissed about him not having due process.
so your comparisons and your failed attempt to point out irony or hypocracy in my positions was just that, a failed attempt...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
...
If I'm wrong... then, please, tell me. Do gun advocates want the government keeping tabs on their gun ownership and movement, thereof, in a government controlled database?
Hail, Hail!!!
but could give a rip about palestinian, iraqi or afghan deaths.
Don't forget the Mexicans. They're either illegal immigrants or gang bangers or both.
(plus... they like Soccer)
Hail, Hail!!!
Futbol!