This is what the 3rd lockout in the Bettman era...no sport dumps on their fans more than the NHL. When the NHL returns...fans need not attend.
Since the last lock out I've been to exactly 1 game...and unlike many of you folk I'm 15 minutes from what is usually pretty good hockey with a team that has some of the top talent and pretty consistant the last 20 years.
I'm sure some of you leaf fans surely can stay away, or Oiler fans, Flame fans etc..
Yeah, I don't really go to many NHL games (I'll go if the Leafs come, maybe) since the last lockout. During the last lockout I started going and watching the local CHL (not the good CHL, Central Hockey League) team, the Fort Worth Brahmas, play. I'd gone to many of their games in the past, but I really started going regularly during that lockout. I started to enjoy it more, because even though they aren't nearly as talented, they are playing their asses off on every shift. Sometimes it's nice to watch guys who are hungry and trying to make it, and play 100% even though they have to hold a full-time job in order to make ends meet.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
i actually stopped going because of mlse ... i'll only go if i get free tickets and i refuse to spend money on merch or concessions although buddy has season's for leafs so i buy him dinner before hand and a beer and an ice cream during the game ...
Unfortunately...not enough people stay away to make a difference. Probably since the last lockout I have watched less than a couple dozen TV games during the regular season...I watch playoff hockey and the 1 game I attended was a playoff game.
The challenge for everyone is this...
DON'T ATTEND GAMES
DON'T WATCH GAMES ON TV
DON'T CAVE THE OWNERS ARE COUNTING ON EVERYONE CAVING
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Unfortunately...not enough people stay away to make a difference. Probably since the last lockout I have watched less than a couple dozen TV games during the regular season...I watch playoff hockey and the 1 game I attended was a playoff game.
The challenge for everyone is this...
DON'T ATTEND GAMES
DON'T WATCH GAMES ON TV
DON'T CAVE THE OWNERS ARE COUNTING ON EVERYONE CAVING
I say watch games at your local bar/pub ... support the people that are getting screwed ... tv contracts are already set ... nhl is not gonna get a penny more if people watch at your local firkin ...
NHL lockout: League's end-around attempt annoys NHLPA
At first glance, the NHL's decision to let general managers and owners talk to players for 48 hours last week seems like a positive step for the NHL lockout, which started Day 37 on Tuesday.
Communication is good, right? Answering questions, addressing concerns, catching up—you can do a lot with two free days.
That's not exactly the way it works, though. The league didn't inform NHLPA leadership that such a window was open, and the attempt—right or not—is being viewed as an end-around on executive director Donald Fehr.
"Most owners are not allowed to attend bargaining meetings," NHLPA special council Steve Fehr said via a released statement. "No owners are allowed to speak to the media about the bargaining. Interesting that they are secretly unleashed to talk to the players about the meetings the players can attend but the owners cannot."
The league, remember, published its most recent CBA proposal on NHL.com—a move that was widely viewed as a PR grab and an attempt to bypass the Fehrs as informational gatekeepers.
A more cynical viewpoint to take: The executives, particularly GMs, could use the window to sway players to accept a deal quickly and preserve an 82-game season—and, potentially, cause legal problems. On paper, though, that's not the case, according to Yahoo! Sports' Nick Cotsonika.
The league issued a memo telling execs they could answer questions about the proposal—which is based around an immediate 50/50 revenue split and paying players a portion of their lost wages against their own future earnings—but not lobby them to accept a deal, reports Cotsonika.
"(Any) effort to motivate the Players must be to have them act through their union, not instead of or in opposition to it," the memo read. "YOU MAY NOT: 'Negotiate' with a Player.' This means you may not explore alternatives or variations to the proposals on the table."
Regardless, the takeaway points: The owners are continuing their attempts to bypass Fehr, and the move annoyed the NHLPA. Considering that Thursday's league-set deadline for saving a full schedule approaches with no meetings scheduled, neither is a good thing.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Unfortunately...not enough people stay away to make a difference. Probably since the last lockout I have watched less than a couple dozen TV games during the regular season...I watch playoff hockey and the 1 game I attended was a playoff game.
The challenge for everyone is this...
DON'T ATTEND GAMES
DON'T WATCH GAMES ON TV
DON'T CAVE THE OWNERS ARE COUNTING ON EVERYONE CAVING
I say watch games at your local bar/pub ... support the people that are getting screwed ... tv contracts are already set ... nhl is not gonna get a penny more if people watch at your local firkin ...
I like that idea...helps out the little guy...tip a little extra with all the money saved from not attending games.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Can somebody give me a summary on the politics/structure of the NHL? I just watch the games and haven't paid much attention to the structure of the league itself. Whenever there's a lockout I don't pay much attention to it, other than if it's over yet. But whenever there's an NFL lockout, or the recent ref lockout, you always hear the analysts and people on ESPN or whatever saying they shouldn't blame the commissioner, but the owners, because the commissioner works for the owners. Is it not the same way in the NHL or does Bettman have more power than Goodell? Or does ESPN just have their nose up Goodell's ass? Is Bettman just an easy target (he really is easily unlikable) or does he really deserve all the blame he gets?
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Can somebody give me a summary on the politics/structure of the NHL? I just watch the games and haven't paid much attention to the structure of the league itself. Whenever there's a lockout I don't pay much attention to it, other than if it's over yet. But whenever there's an NFL lockout, or the recent ref lockout, you always hear the analysts and people on ESPN or whatever saying they shouldn't blame the commissioner, but the owners, because the commissioner works for the owners. Is it not the same way in the NHL or does Bettman have more power than Goodell? Or does ESPN just have their nose up Goodell's ass? Is Bettman just an easy target (he really is easily unlikable) or does he really deserve all the blame he gets?
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
Yes he does work for the owners.
My understanding is the league revenues have grown considerably since he's been commissioner.
I also believe it would take 2/3 of ownership to vote him out or replace him as commissioner.
He also brought the owners a salary cap...so he is going no where anytime soon.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Can somebody give me a summary on the politics/structure of the NHL? I just watch the games and haven't paid much attention to the structure of the league itself. Whenever there's a lockout I don't pay much attention to it, other than if it's over yet. But whenever there's an NFL lockout, or the recent ref lockout, you always hear the analysts and people on ESPN or whatever saying they shouldn't blame the commissioner, but the owners, because the commissioner works for the owners. Is it not the same way in the NHL or does Bettman have more power than Goodell? Or does ESPN just have their nose up Goodell's ass? Is Bettman just an easy target (he really is easily unlikable) or does he really deserve all the blame he gets?
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
these are some great questions. yes it is the same thing as the NFL. Bettman does work for the owners and yes not all the blame goes on Bettman.
The reason why many blame him was due to the fact that many of teams that he has brought into the NHL have been in non-traditional markets and they are the ones who are losing the money. Now you can't oput all the blame on him for that cause the owners have a say in this.
the other reason people blame Bettman is people see him as catering toward the very rich teams. the NHL has about 8 teams that make money and the rest either break even or lose a shit load.
This lock out and the one before this is not about making the NHL teams more secure. it is about making the rich teams richer.
Can somebody give me a summary on the politics/structure of the NHL? I just watch the games and haven't paid much attention to the structure of the league itself. Whenever there's a lockout I don't pay much attention to it, other than if it's over yet. But whenever there's an NFL lockout, or the recent ref lockout, you always hear the analysts and people on ESPN or whatever saying they shouldn't blame the commissioner, but the owners, because the commissioner works for the owners. Is it not the same way in the NHL or does Bettman have more power than Goodell? Or does ESPN just have their nose up Goodell's ass? Is Bettman just an easy target (he really is easily unlikable) or does he really deserve all the blame he gets?
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
Yes he does work for the owners.
My understanding is the league revenues have grown considerably since he's been commissioner.
I also believe it would take 2/3 of ownership to vote him out or replace him as commissioner.
He also brought the owners a salary cap...so he is going no where anytime soon.
actually the cap is one of the main issues for the poor teams. the cap is making them lose more money cause of the cap floor. If bettman wants to make all the teams more secure he would remove the cap completely.
I also think its important to remember that a majority of teams don't make money till the playoffs...so this lockout really isn't hurting ownership.
Thanks for the summary above lukin.
As for this part. I always thought they meant that the extra games meant more money. I realize they get more for playoff tickets, and it's usually sold out, but in addition to that I always thought they were talking about getting to play extra hockey instead of shutting down the barn for summer. They might not be AS worried, but it's still cutting into their annual ticket sales.
Edit: And thanks fife as well.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
I also think its important to remember that a majority of teams don't make money till the playoffs...so this lockout really isn't hurting ownership.
that not really true. yes most teams except for the rich 8 teams don't make money til the playoffs but the owners still need that 82 games to get close to not losing all their money.
I also think its important to remember that a majority of teams don't make money till the playoffs...so this lockout really isn't hurting ownership.
that not really true. yes most teams except for the rich 8 teams don't make money til the playoffs but the owners still need that 82 games to get close to not losing all their money.
Actually it is true...as of now their not spending money...maybe arena leases...but i'm sure their covered by insurance and in the case of Detroit they pay no money to use the joe.
so Illitch is hardly spending any money...just money to fuel the plane to charter the Tigers to San Francisco back.
If these owners were losing money there'd be an agreement by now.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I also think its important to remember that a majority of teams don't make money till the playoffs...so this lockout really isn't hurting ownership.
Thanks for the summary above lukin.
As for this part. I always thought they meant that the extra games meant more money. I realize they get more for playoff tickets, and it's usually sold out, but in addition to that I always thought they were talking about getting to play extra hockey instead of shutting down the barn for summer. They might not be AS worried, but it's still cutting into their annual ticket sales.
Edit: And thanks fife as well.
The problem with the NHL is that they don't have huge TV deals like the other 3 sports...especially football.
It really is a gate driven sport...even though its a gate driven sport the new arena being discussed for Detroit will likely seat 18000 or so...so the owner is quite confidant that upper management can continue to ice a lineup that can get them to the playoffs.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Can somebody give me a summary on the politics/structure of the NHL? I just watch the games and haven't paid much attention to the structure of the league itself. Whenever there's a lockout I don't pay much attention to it, other than if it's over yet. But whenever there's an NFL lockout, or the recent ref lockout, you always hear the analysts and people on ESPN or whatever saying they shouldn't blame the commissioner, but the owners, because the commissioner works for the owners. Is it not the same way in the NHL or does Bettman have more power than Goodell? Or does ESPN just have their nose up Goodell's ass? Is Bettman just an easy target (he really is easily unlikable) or does he really deserve all the blame he gets?
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
Yes he does work for the owners.
My understanding is the league revenues have grown considerably since he's been commissioner.
I also believe it would take 2/3 of ownership to vote him out or replace him as commissioner.
He also brought the owners a salary cap...so he is going no where anytime soon.
actually the cap is one of the main issues for the poor teams. the cap is making them lose more money cause of the cap floor. If bettman wants to make all the teams more secure he would remove the cap completely.
Well the majority of owners had to agree with the cap floor...and the cap floor is not that unreasonable...plus the players would never agree to that.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The reason why many blame him was due to the fact that many of teams that he has brought into the NHL have been in non-traditional markets and they are the ones who are losing the money. Now you can't oput all the blame on him for that cause the owners have a say in this.
I can understand why people from markets that lost teams going to these non-traditional markets (like the good folks of Winnipeg and Hartford for example) were upset. But they were trying to expand the NHL brand. When I was a kid, nobody here in the south knew shit or gave a damn about hockey, and it's still probably the 5th or 6th most popular sport (even further down if you break it down by NFL, College, and High School) but it is much more popular. I guess it's just not translating into the dollars they had hoped. Back in the day there were no such thing as school hockey teams, or widespread rec leagues. I knew one kid who played hockey, and it wasn't a coincidence that his parents were loaded because there were hardly any rinks (I only knew of one, and it's purpose wasn't hockey), making ice time very expensive, on top of equipment and everything. Now I see quite a few rinks, and hockey shops around. And quite a few schools, including my old high school, have hockey teams. Things might be a little better here in Texas though, because the Stars won a Cup not long after coming to town. It's been a while though, and Dallas fans are fickle, hence their recent money troubles and bankruptcy.
In hindsight it doesn't appear to be panning out the way they had hoped, but Bettman is hardly the first to take that gamble, I don't think you'll find any organizations that are happy with their revenue and decide to apply the brakes and just enjoy their current level of success. NFL Europe was costing the NFL $30 million a season at the time they folded it. But apparently the NFL can afford to make a gamble like that more than the NHL. I don't think it really hurt their pockets much to fold NFL Europe.
I can see why people ride his ass about that decision, but I think hockey's popularity in the U.S. is probably much higher than it was prior to all of the expansion and relocation. When I was a kid you could only see one hockey game a week via ESPN National Hockey Night, now I can find one (not RIGHT now of course ) fairly easily on any given day in a season. It might not be the team I want, but it is a hockey game. And of course the availability of the Center Ice package for those that gotta have it.
I can't really blame the guy for wanting to take it from a 10th Tier sport in the U.S. to the top. It was never going to topple the NFL, NBA or MLB though, now soccer is on the rise too, and I just don't think the NHL is ever going to get what it wants from America as a whole. There are some good hockey markets here, just most of these non-traditional ones are turning out to be a bust.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
The reason why many blame him was due to the fact that many of teams that he has brought into the NHL have been in non-traditional markets and they are the ones who are losing the money. Now you can't oput all the blame on him for that cause the owners have a say in this.
I can understand why people from markets that lost teams going to these non-traditional markets (like the good folks of Winnipeg and Hartford for example) were upset. But they were trying to expand the NHL brand. When I was a kid, nobody here in the south knew shit or gave a damn about hockey, and it's still probably the 5th or 6th most popular sport (even further down if you break it down by NFL, College, and High School) but it is much more popular. I guess it's just not translating into the dollars they had hoped. Back in the day there were no such thing as school hockey teams, or widespread rec leagues. I knew one kid who played hockey, and it wasn't a coincidence that his parents were loaded because there were hardly any rinks (I only knew of one, and it's purpose wasn't hockey), making ice time very expensive, on top of equipment and everything. Now I see quite a few rinks, and hockey shops around. And quite a few schools, including my old high school, have hockey teams. Things might be a little better here in Texas though, because the Stars won a Cup not long after coming to town. It's been a while though, and Dallas fans are fickle, hence their recent money troubles and bankruptcy.
In hindsight it doesn't appear to be panning out the way they had hoped, but Bettman is hardly the first to take that gamble, I don't think you'll find any organizations that are happy with their revenue and decide to apply the brakes and just enjoy their current level of success. NFL Europe was costing the NFL $30 million a season at the time they folded it. But apparently the NFL can afford to make a gamble like that more than the NHL. I don't think it really hurt their pockets much to fold NFL Europe.
I can see why people ride his ass about that decision, but I think hockey's popularity in the U.S. is probably much higher than it was prior to all of the expansion and relocation. When I was a kid you could only see one hockey game a week via ESPN National Hockey Night, now I can find one (not RIGHT now of course ) fairly easily on any given day in a season. It might not be the team I want, but it is a hockey game. And of course the availability of the Center Ice package for those that gotta have it.
I can't really blame the guy for wanting to take it from a 10th Tier sport in the U.S. to the top. It was never going to topple the NFL, NBA or MLB though, now soccer is on the rise too, and I just don't think the NHL is ever going to get what it wants from America as a whole. There are some good hockey markets here, just most of these non-traditional ones are turning out to be a bust.
You make some valid points.
Even in the States in original 6 markets where does hockey rank. I live just across from Detroit and they've had a super successful team the last 21 years, 21 straight playoff appearance, 4 championships but I would still say as far Detroit sports fans go, the lions and tiger are more popular and garner more attention...so hockey is no higher than 3rd...even in January people calling the local sports station seem more interested in talking lions and tigers.
Merchandising seems to be a big deal these days...so with exception of the Canadian teams...how many American teams merchandising is number 1 in their market? Probably none.
Me as a Canadian Hockey is number 3 behind baseball and football...this is the 3rd lockout in the Bettman era.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Even in the States in original 6 markets where does hockey rank. I live just across from Detroit and they've had a super successful team the last 21 years, 21 straight playoff appearance, 4 championships but I would still say as far Detroit sports fans go, the lions and tiger are more popular and garner more attention...so hockey is no higher than 3rd...even in January people calling the local sports station seem more interested in talking lions and tigers.
Merchandising seems to be a big deal these days...so with exception of the Canadian teams...how many American teams merchandising is number 1 in their market? Probably none.
Me as a Canadian Hockey is number 3 behind baseball and football...this is the 3rd lockout in the Bettman era.
How do the Pistons rank? I figured they might be above the Red Wings as well. I know they aren't as successful as the Red Wings (but what the hell, the Lions sure aren't) but they won 3 NBA titles (on top of a bunch of Division and Conference titles) and I thought Detroit was a pretty crazy basketball town. To be honest I've always wondered where all the other teams ranked, until you told me that is, since it somehow earned the nickname "Hockeytown USA". From that you'd think all the other sports took a back seat to the Red Wings. I guess it's just about as accurate as "America's Team" sorry
Edit - OK, I just read the nickname wasn't "earned", it was just part of some Red Wings marketing campaign back in the 90's and it stuck.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Even in the States in original 6 markets where does hockey rank. I live just across from Detroit and they've had a super successful team the last 21 years, 21 straight playoff appearance, 4 championships but I would still say as far Detroit sports fans go, the lions and tiger are more popular and garner more attention...so hockey is no higher than 3rd...even in January people calling the local sports station seem more interested in talking lions and tigers.
Merchandising seems to be a big deal these days...so with exception of the Canadian teams...how many American teams merchandising is number 1 in their market? Probably none.
Me as a Canadian Hockey is number 3 behind baseball and football...this is the 3rd lockout in the Bettman era.
How do the Pistons rank? I figured they might be above the Red Wings as well. I know they aren't as successful as the Red Wings (but what the hell, the Lions sure aren't) but they won 3 NBA titles (on top of a bunch of Division and Conference titles) and I thought Detroit was a pretty crazy basketball town. To be honest I've always wondered where all the other teams ranked, until you told me that is, since it somehow earned the nickname "Hockeytown USA". From that you'd think all the other sports took a back seat to the Red Wings. I guess it's just about as accurate as "America's Team" sorry
Edit - OK, I just read the nickname wasn't "earned", it was just part of some Red Wings marketing campaign back in the 90's and it stuck.
The "Hockeytown USA" is marketing. I don't follow basketball enough to know for sure...but I think they'd be slightly ahead of the Wings. That gets to some of the problems hockey has in the states, merchandising is big business, so the NFL team, MLB team or NBA will get the fans spending money on them first.
The Red Wings are a great example...a team that has been hugely successful over the last 20 years still has to take a back seat to a football team thats never been to a Super Bowl and a MLB team that hasn't won the world series since '84.
At least this is my impression, just from listening to their sports radio, a good bit of the callers always want to talk football or baseball, with the exception being right after a wing game.
Hockey's still a tough sell in the States...I wouldn't be surprised soccer has passed hockey in some markets.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
a lot of nhl teams make money in the playoffs because players don't get paid for playoff games ...
Agree...they receive some kind of bonus money? the winning team get more I believe.
It also helps when the price of a ticket doubles.
Also just did a quick google search and it doesn't appear like the bonus money is a lot. the article I read said first round was like 50 000 to be split among players. Don't know how accurate that is.
Post edited by lukin2006 on
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't think the players are going to win this dispute...the owners aren't losing money right now, and even come playoff time most owners won't make much money...basically no incentive for the owners to hurry up and get a deal done.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't think the players are going to win this dispute...the owners aren't losing money right now, and even come playoff time most owners won't make much money...basically no incentive for the owners to hurry up and get a deal done.
the players were always going to lose ... that's a given ... the issue is really how much? ... i mean - at the end of the day - there's a deal right there in front of us ...
50/50 ... pay out in full existing contracts and keep HRR the same ...
but the owners are looking to take the players to the cleaners ... :twisted:
I don't think the players are going to win this dispute...the owners aren't losing money right now, and even come playoff time most owners won't make much money...basically no incentive for the owners to hurry up and get a deal done.
the players were always going to lose ... that's a given ... the issue is really how much? ... i mean - at the end of the day - there's a deal right there in front of us ...
50/50 ... pay out in full existing contracts and keep HRR the same ...
but the owners are looking to take the players to the cleaners ... :twisted:
I have no dog in the fight here...I only watch hockey come playoff time anyway...still pretty disturbing how this sport treats its fans, especially in the States where in most markets it behind the other major leagues.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I have no dog in the fight here...I only watch hockey come playoff time anyway...still pretty disturbing how this sport treats its fans, especially in the States where in most markets it behind the other major leagues.
no kidding ... the nhl won't even meet with the PA ...
Comments
Yeah, I don't really go to many NHL games (I'll go if the Leafs come, maybe) since the last lockout. During the last lockout I started going and watching the local CHL (not the good CHL, Central Hockey League) team, the Fort Worth Brahmas, play. I'd gone to many of their games in the past, but I really started going regularly during that lockout. I started to enjoy it more, because even though they aren't nearly as talented, they are playing their asses off on every shift. Sometimes it's nice to watch guys who are hungry and trying to make it, and play 100% even though they have to hold a full-time job in order to make ends meet.
The challenge for everyone is this...
DON'T ATTEND GAMES
DON'T WATCH GAMES ON TV
DON'T CAVE THE OWNERS ARE COUNTING ON EVERYONE CAVING
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I say watch games at your local bar/pub ... support the people that are getting screwed ... tv contracts are already set ... nhl is not gonna get a penny more if people watch at your local firkin ...
NHL lockout: League's end-around attempt annoys NHLPA
At first glance, the NHL's decision to let general managers and owners talk to players for 48 hours last week seems like a positive step for the NHL lockout, which started Day 37 on Tuesday.
Communication is good, right? Answering questions, addressing concerns, catching up—you can do a lot with two free days.
That's not exactly the way it works, though. The league didn't inform NHLPA leadership that such a window was open, and the attempt—right or not—is being viewed as an end-around on executive director Donald Fehr.
"Most owners are not allowed to attend bargaining meetings," NHLPA special council Steve Fehr said via a released statement. "No owners are allowed to speak to the media about the bargaining. Interesting that they are secretly unleashed to talk to the players about the meetings the players can attend but the owners cannot."
The league, remember, published its most recent CBA proposal on NHL.com—a move that was widely viewed as a PR grab and an attempt to bypass the Fehrs as informational gatekeepers.
A more cynical viewpoint to take: The executives, particularly GMs, could use the window to sway players to accept a deal quickly and preserve an 82-game season—and, potentially, cause legal problems. On paper, though, that's not the case, according to Yahoo! Sports' Nick Cotsonika.
The league issued a memo telling execs they could answer questions about the proposal—which is based around an immediate 50/50 revenue split and paying players a portion of their lost wages against their own future earnings—but not lobby them to accept a deal, reports Cotsonika.
"(Any) effort to motivate the Players must be to have them act through their union, not instead of or in opposition to it," the memo read. "YOU MAY NOT: 'Negotiate' with a Player.' This means you may not explore alternatives or variations to the proposals on the table."
Regardless, the takeaway points: The owners are continuing their attempts to bypass Fehr, and the move annoyed the NHLPA. Considering that Thursday's league-set deadline for saving a full schedule approaches with no meetings scheduled, neither is a good thing.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I like that idea...helps out the little guy...tip a little extra with all the money saved from not attending games.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I didn't think the lockout for go past Christmas...I now think it might...as long as its back by playoff time.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Edit: By the way I realize Bettman deserves blame for a lot of other things, but in this situation in particular, is it really his fault or is it just reflex to blame Bettman?
Yes he does work for the owners.
My understanding is the league revenues have grown considerably since he's been commissioner.
I also believe it would take 2/3 of ownership to vote him out or replace him as commissioner.
He also brought the owners a salary cap...so he is going no where anytime soon.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
these are some great questions. yes it is the same thing as the NFL. Bettman does work for the owners and yes not all the blame goes on Bettman.
The reason why many blame him was due to the fact that many of teams that he has brought into the NHL have been in non-traditional markets and they are the ones who are losing the money. Now you can't oput all the blame on him for that cause the owners have a say in this.
the other reason people blame Bettman is people see him as catering toward the very rich teams. the NHL has about 8 teams that make money and the rest either break even or lose a shit load.
This lock out and the one before this is not about making the NHL teams more secure. it is about making the rich teams richer.
actually the cap is one of the main issues for the poor teams. the cap is making them lose more money cause of the cap floor. If bettman wants to make all the teams more secure he would remove the cap completely.
Thanks for the summary above lukin.
As for this part. I always thought they meant that the extra games meant more money. I realize they get more for playoff tickets, and it's usually sold out, but in addition to that I always thought they were talking about getting to play extra hockey instead of shutting down the barn for summer. They might not be AS worried, but it's still cutting into their annual ticket sales.
Edit: And thanks fife as well.
that not really true. yes most teams except for the rich 8 teams don't make money til the playoffs but the owners still need that 82 games to get close to not losing all their money.
Actually it is true...as of now their not spending money...maybe arena leases...but i'm sure their covered by insurance and in the case of Detroit they pay no money to use the joe.
so Illitch is hardly spending any money...just money to fuel the plane to charter the Tigers to San Francisco back.
If these owners were losing money there'd be an agreement by now.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The problem with the NHL is that they don't have huge TV deals like the other 3 sports...especially football.
It really is a gate driven sport...even though its a gate driven sport the new arena being discussed for Detroit will likely seat 18000 or so...so the owner is quite confidant that upper management can continue to ice a lineup that can get them to the playoffs.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Well the majority of owners had to agree with the cap floor...and the cap floor is not that unreasonable...plus the players would never agree to that.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I can understand why people from markets that lost teams going to these non-traditional markets (like the good folks of Winnipeg and Hartford for example) were upset. But they were trying to expand the NHL brand. When I was a kid, nobody here in the south knew shit or gave a damn about hockey, and it's still probably the 5th or 6th most popular sport (even further down if you break it down by NFL, College, and High School) but it is much more popular. I guess it's just not translating into the dollars they had hoped. Back in the day there were no such thing as school hockey teams, or widespread rec leagues. I knew one kid who played hockey, and it wasn't a coincidence that his parents were loaded because there were hardly any rinks (I only knew of one, and it's purpose wasn't hockey), making ice time very expensive, on top of equipment and everything. Now I see quite a few rinks, and hockey shops around. And quite a few schools, including my old high school, have hockey teams. Things might be a little better here in Texas though, because the Stars won a Cup not long after coming to town. It's been a while though, and Dallas fans are fickle, hence their recent money troubles and bankruptcy.
In hindsight it doesn't appear to be panning out the way they had hoped, but Bettman is hardly the first to take that gamble, I don't think you'll find any organizations that are happy with their revenue and decide to apply the brakes and just enjoy their current level of success. NFL Europe was costing the NFL $30 million a season at the time they folded it. But apparently the NFL can afford to make a gamble like that more than the NHL. I don't think it really hurt their pockets much to fold NFL Europe.
I can see why people ride his ass about that decision, but I think hockey's popularity in the U.S. is probably much higher than it was prior to all of the expansion and relocation. When I was a kid you could only see one hockey game a week via ESPN National Hockey Night, now I can find one (not RIGHT now of course
I can't really blame the guy for wanting to take it from a 10th Tier sport in the U.S. to the top. It was never going to topple the NFL, NBA or MLB though, now soccer is on the rise too, and I just don't think the NHL is ever going to get what it wants from America as a whole. There are some good hockey markets here, just most of these non-traditional ones are turning out to be a bust.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nhl/story/_/i ... agree-meet
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You make some valid points.
Even in the States in original 6 markets where does hockey rank. I live just across from Detroit and they've had a super successful team the last 21 years, 21 straight playoff appearance, 4 championships but I would still say as far Detroit sports fans go, the lions and tiger are more popular and garner more attention...so hockey is no higher than 3rd...even in January people calling the local sports station seem more interested in talking lions and tigers.
Merchandising seems to be a big deal these days...so with exception of the Canadian teams...how many American teams merchandising is number 1 in their market? Probably none.
Me as a Canadian Hockey is number 3 behind baseball and football...this is the 3rd lockout in the Bettman era.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
How do the Pistons rank? I figured they might be above the Red Wings as well. I know they aren't as successful as the Red Wings (but what the hell, the Lions sure aren't) but they won 3 NBA titles (on top of a bunch of Division and Conference titles) and I thought Detroit was a pretty crazy basketball town. To be honest I've always wondered where all the other teams ranked, until you told me that is, since it somehow earned the nickname "Hockeytown USA". From that you'd think all the other sports took a back seat to the Red Wings. I guess it's just about as accurate as "America's Team"
Edit - OK, I just read the nickname wasn't "earned", it was just part of some Red Wings marketing campaign back in the 90's and it stuck.
The "Hockeytown USA" is marketing. I don't follow basketball enough to know for sure...but I think they'd be slightly ahead of the Wings. That gets to some of the problems hockey has in the states, merchandising is big business, so the NFL team, MLB team or NBA will get the fans spending money on them first.
The Red Wings are a great example...a team that has been hugely successful over the last 20 years still has to take a back seat to a football team thats never been to a Super Bowl and a MLB team that hasn't won the world series since '84.
At least this is my impression, just from listening to their sports radio, a good bit of the callers always want to talk football or baseball, with the exception being right after a wing game.
Hockey's still a tough sell in the States...I wouldn't be surprised soccer has passed hockey in some markets.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Agree...they receive some kind of bonus money? the winning team get more I believe.
It also helps when the price of a ticket doubles.
Also just did a quick google search and it doesn't appear like the bonus money is a lot. the article I read said first round was like 50 000 to be split among players. Don't know how accurate that is.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
ya ... it depends on what is written into their contracts but basically they don't get paid except for any bonus clauses ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the players were always going to lose ... that's a given ... the issue is really how much? ... i mean - at the end of the day - there's a deal right there in front of us ...
50/50 ... pay out in full existing contracts and keep HRR the same ...
but the owners are looking to take the players to the cleaners ... :twisted:
I have no dog in the fight here...I only watch hockey come playoff time anyway...still pretty disturbing how this sport treats its fans, especially in the States where in most markets it behind the other major leagues.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
no kidding ... the nhl won't even meet with the PA ...