Something I do not understand...

Porchaholic

So I am on the subway home after watching another amazing show on Sept. 11th and 4-5 other Pearl Jam fans sit next to my buddy and I and they spent the entire subway ride discussing what songs they thought Pearl Jam "should" have played. The one guy was discussing how he had gone to Montreal, was attending both Toronto shows, Ottawa and Hamilton and was either considering or attending Winnipeg.

I don't understand why after every show Pearl Jam plays you see all these posts of people whining and complaining that the band did not come out and play an entire show consisting of B-sides and rarities. The one fan made a comment that he doesn't understand why they always play Betterman, Alive and Black. He would be quite content if the band stopped playing the songs as he has heard them so many times.

I read a post recently of a member being upset that they played 6 songs on night #2 in Toronto that they played on night one. SIX SONGS! They played 58 songs in two nights and only 6 were played both nights. To me that is absolutely amazing!! To this poster he was pissed and disgusted that they closed the opening set with Porch both nights.

Pearl Jam plays in front of crowds of 15,000 to 20,000 people a show. A lot of those people are seeing them for the first time. Not everyone has the money, time or opportunity to follow the band and see multiple shows a tour. I remember the first time I heard Betterman, Alive and Black for the first time live and it blew me out of the water, something I will never forget and it is something that the fans in the building watching Pearl Jam for the fisrt time should have the chance to experience for themselves.

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

0omeadowo0

well i'm 20 years old and have been listening to pearl jam since my teen years...so far i only had the opportunity to see pj live once... 'cause it's hard for me to get the money to travel to other countries where they play...but i'm never complaining, i'm just happy i had that one time and it was great , so what bugs me is when people and fans have so many opportunitys to see pearl jam live and have been to so many shows and yet they still complain...they don't even realize how lucky they are...
so i agree with you 100%, i just can't understand why all this complaining

Roeghmann

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.




Hail hail the lucky ones!

Come to Europe Pearl Jam, and give us the shows you are in the mood for!

MG79478

The title of this thread should be... Complaining about complaining.

Röeghmann wrote:

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

As someone who has seen many shows... I've worked very hard to have the opportunity to be able to afford to see the band as many times as I wish. It's not like someone gave me money to see all of those shows. I think we are entitled to our own opinion of the setlist. What's worse, judging a setlist, or judging a person based on something as trivial as their opinion of a setlist?

PlayDeep

If they don't fuckin' play "Yellow Ledbetter" as the encore tonight I swear I will run home and destroy all of my PJ CDs and rip up all of my posters!

alesek

Its always a great party, its always original, its always so unique... Its not a religion. Its Pearl Jam.

grizaham

I really really enjoy pearl jam!!

A little post show waffle house makes it ten times better..

PlayDeep

They don't have Waffle House in Ontario.

Eraserhead

PlayDeep wrote:

If they don't fuckin' play "Yellow Ledbetter" as the encore tonight I swear I will run home and destroy all of my PJ CDs and rip up all of my posters!

If they don't play Foxymop, I'll kill myself.

polaris_x

MG79478 wrote:

As someone who has seen many shows... I've worked very hard to have the opportunity to be able to afford to see the band as many times as I wish. It's not like someone gave me money to see all of those shows. I think we are entitled to our own opinion of the setlist. What's worse, judging a setlist, or judging a person based on something as trivial as their opinion of a setlist?

i would say the setlist whiners are worst! ... hahaha

why? ... because they think they are entitled to hear the songs they want and could care less what the majority or the band might want ...

i think its great some people can see the band so many times but if it gets to the point where you could care less for alive, betterman, even flow, etc ... then you are only gonna be disappointed i say ... do you guys hear how the crowd reacts at the start of those songs?

EmBleve

I am grateful to be at any show, regardless of what they play. I don't think I could ever tire of hearing Black or Alive at any show, period.

teegan31

EmBleve wrote:

I am grateful to be at any show, regardless of what they play. I don't think I could ever tire of hearing Black or Alive at any show, period.

I agree!!!

benjs

Porchaholic wrote:

So I am on the subway home after watching another amazing show on Sept. 11th and 4-5 other Pearl Jam fans sit next to my buddy and I and they spent the entire subway ride discussing what songs they thought Pearl Jam "should" have played. The one guy was discussing how he had gone to Montreal, was attending both Toronto shows, Ottawa and Hamilton and was either considering or attending Winnipeg.

I don't understand why after every show Pearl Jam plays you see all these posts of people whining and complaining that the band did not come out and play an entire show consisting of B-sides and rarities. The one fan made a comment that he doesn't understand why they always play Betterman, Alive and Black. He would be quite content if the band stopped playing the songs as he has heard them so many times.

I read a post recently of a member being upset that they played 6 songs on night #2 in Toronto that they played on night one. SIX SONGS! They played 58 songs in two nights and only 6 were played both nights. To me that is absolutely amazing!! To this poster he was pissed and disgusted that they closed the opening set with Porch both nights.

Pearl Jam plays in front of crowds of 15,000 to 20,000 people a show. A lot of those people are seeing them for the first time. Not everyone has the money, time or opportunity to follow the band and see multiple shows a tour. I remember the first time I heard Betterman, Alive and Black for the first time live and it blew me out of the water, something I will never forget and it is something that the fans in the building watching Pearl Jam for the fisrt time should have the chance to experience for themselves.

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

Pearl Jam is in a very interesting situation these days. They seem to have had a resurgence in popularity and relevance, yet have kept the loyalty of their diehards like us. The way I see it, it's almost like they have to cater to the masses, and still give it their all to cater to us. The songs that 'everyone knows' are great because it's nice to hear 18,000 voices in unison with Eddie - for me, this is a cathartic experience when Betterman comes on and we sing a verse, or when Alive's going on and we're all fist-pumping. Then, songs like Crown of Thorns provide us with that 'specialized' set within a set that's, really, for us!

As for the statement about six songs in common both nights - my opinion - absurd. About fifty unique songs in a two-night span!? I wonder if this person would register the same complaint to the band personally.

Lukinz

I never get sick of Evenflow, Porch or Alive. Mike rips it upon all three an it's different everytime.

drsluggo

benjs wrote:

Pearl Jam is in a very interesting situation these days. They seem to have had a resurgence in popularity and relevance, yet have kept the loyalty of their diehards like us. The way I see it, it's almost like they have to cater to the masses, and still give it their all to cater to us. The songs that 'everyone knows' are great because it's nice to hear 18,000 voices in unison with Eddie - for me, this is a cathartic experience when Betterman comes on and we sing a verse, or when Alive's going on and we're all fist-pumping. Then, songs like Crown of Thorns provide us with that 'specialized' set within a set that's, really, for us!

As for the statement about six songs in common both nights - my opinion - absurd. About fifty unique songs in a two-night span!? I wonder if this person would register the same complaint to the band personally.

This is a pretty good way to put it. PJ knows that they have a huge base that travels for multiple shows, and that base has been with them for 20 years now (give or take a little).

They also have the more casual fans at each stop who only want to hear the 'hits' like Alive, Even Flow, Daughter, Black, Betterman, etc...

Bottom line is that I feel bad for them that they can't win. At PJ20 Night 1 many complained it was too much obscure stuff (that I loved), and then in these early Canada shows I've heard many complaints that its too bland.

They do mix it up well -- Toronto Night 1 I thought was more hits based and Night 2 seemed a little more deep into the older stuff, but in the end they played over 50 songs in two nights which is impressive. I've NEVER seen another band mix it up like they do. To be fair that's part of the reason they can do mini tours and have so many travel to them - if they played bland sets you can bet they would not have as many fans traveling to them and buying up merch, etc like we do.

PillowPants

some pearl jam fans are spoiled

that's it

whygohome

Porchaholic wrote:

So I am on the subway home after watching another amazing show on Sept. 11th and 4-5 other Pearl Jam fans sit next to my buddy and I and they spent the entire subway ride discussing what songs they thought Pearl Jam "should" have played. The one guy was discussing how he had gone to Montreal, was attending both Toronto shows, Ottawa and Hamilton and was either considering or attending Winnipeg.

I don't understand why after every show Pearl Jam plays you see all these posts of people whining and complaining that the band did not come out and play an entire show consisting of B-sides and rarities. The one fan made a comment that he doesn't understand why they always play Betterman, Alive and Black. He would be quite content if the band stopped playing the songs as he has heard them so many times.

I read a post recently of a member being upset that they played 6 songs on night #2 in Toronto that they played on night one. SIX SONGS! They played 58 songs in two nights and only 6 were played both nights. To me that is absolutely amazing!! To this poster he was pissed and disgusted that they closed the opening set with Porch both nights.

Pearl Jam plays in front of crowds of 15,000 to 20,000 people a show. A lot of those people are seeing them for the first time. Not everyone has the money, time or opportunity to follow the band and see multiple shows a tour. I remember the first time I heard Betterman, Alive and Black for the first time live and it blew me out of the water, something I will never forget and it is something that the fans in the building watching Pearl Jam for the fisrt time should have the chance to experience for themselves.

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

Because people are spoiled and egocentric: everything revolves around what they want. Forget the other 20,000+ people in attendance. It is a me, me, me, me society, and it is only getting worse........

p.s. the Toronto setlists are quite amazing

blueandwhite

MG79478 wrote:

The title of this thread should be... Complaining about complaining.

Röeghmann wrote:

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

As someone who has seen many shows... I've worked very hard to have the opportunity to be able to afford to see the band as many times as I wish. It's not like someone gave me money to see all of those shows. I think we are entitled to our own opinion of the setlist. What's worse, judging a setlist, or judging a person based on something as trivial as their opinion of a setlist?

I think it's the strong sense of entitlement that ticks off other fans. This band has worked hard to achieve a dedicated following by balancing their biggest hits with rarities and covers. I can't think of another act that mixes its set lists up more than Pearl Jam yet people still freak out when a set list from their show doesn't live up to their impossibly high expectations.

The fact that people can see this band 70+ times and still get excited speaks volumes to how well they mix things up. Can you imagine doing 10+ shows on a U2 tour where they essentially play the same set list for every show with one or two alternate songs per night? At least Pearl Jam makes the effort to satisfy their hardcore fans.

Let's not forget, others have worked every bit as hard to see Pearl Jam a couple of times. Not everybody has the disposable income to follow their favourite band as extensively when they tour. That doesn't mean that they are lesser fans. I've only seen Pearl Jam 9 times but every one of those shows held value to me. I'm just glad that after 20 years the band is still working as hard as possible to put on great shows. Not every show is going to be perfect.

DURP

Do i like hearing Yellow to end the show everytime. Not really but it's awesome to hear. Thats what i loved about night one closing with Rockin made the whole night come together.

reedrothchild

judging shows based on setlists is weaksauce. Just look at Nassau '03, Montreal '03, Camden 2000 etc. Also Betterman and Alive just serve as a chance for me to take a bathroom break or chance to get another beer so if you don't care for certain songs sit down smoke a j and get ready to rage hard in five minutes.

reedrothchild

blueandwhite wrote:

MG79478 wrote:

The title of this thread should be... Complaining about complaining.

Röeghmann wrote:

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

As someone who has seen many shows... I've worked very hard to have the opportunity to be able to afford to see the band as many times as I wish. It's not like someone gave me money to see all of those shows. I think we are entitled to our own opinion of the setlist. What's worse, judging a setlist, or judging a person based on something as trivial as their opinion of a setlist?

I think it's the strong sense of entitlement that ticks off other fans. This band has worked hard to achieve a dedicated following by balancing their biggest hits with rarities and covers. I can't think of another act that mixes its set lists up more than Pearl Jam yet people still freak out when a set list from their show doesn't live up to their impossibly high expectations.

The fact that people can see this band 70+ times and still get excited speaks volumes to how well they mix things up. Can you imagine doing 10+ shows on a U2 tour where they essentially play the same set list for every show with one or two alternate songs per night? At least Pearl Jam makes the effort to satisfy their hardcore fans.

Let's not forget, others have worked every bit as hard to see Pearl Jam a couple of times. Not everybody has the disposable income to follow their favourite band as extensively when they tour. That doesn't mean that they are lesser fans. I've only seen Pearl Jam 9 times but every one of those shows held value to me. I'm just glad that after 20 years the band is still working as hard as possible to put on great shows. Not every show is going to be perfect.

im pretty much agree with everything here and am sometimes guilty of bitching about a show, but never a setlist as that doesn't tell the whole story. I will say though that there are plenty of bands who mix up their setlists and vary them more than Pearl Jam, but PJ does a pretty solid job. I only complain when they repeat songs two night sin a row at the same venue. That's just silly as they have plenty of songs and plenty of hits to split up over both nights.

BF89905

Porchaholic wrote:

So I am on the subway home after watching another amazing show on Sept. 11th and 4-5 other Pearl Jam fans sit next to my buddy and I and they spent the entire subway ride discussing what songs they thought Pearl Jam "should" have played. The one guy was discussing how he had gone to Montreal, was attending both Toronto shows, Ottawa and Hamilton and was either considering or attending Winnipeg.

I don't understand why after every show Pearl Jam plays you see all these posts of people whining and complaining that the band did not come out and play an entire show consisting of B-sides and rarities. The one fan made a comment that he doesn't understand why they always play Betterman, Alive and Black. He would be quite content if the band stopped playing the songs as he has heard them so many times.

I read a post recently of a member being upset that they played 6 songs on night #2 in Toronto that they played on night one. SIX SONGS! They played 58 songs in two nights and only 6 were played both nights. To me that is absolutely amazing!! To this poster he was pissed and disgusted that they closed the opening set with Porch both nights.

Pearl Jam plays in front of crowds of 15,000 to 20,000 people a show. A lot of those people are seeing them for the first time. Not everyone has the money, time or opportunity to follow the band and see multiple shows a tour. I remember the first time I heard Betterman, Alive and Black for the first time live and it blew me out of the water, something I will never forget and it is something that the fans in the building watching Pearl Jam for the fisrt time should have the chance to experience for themselves.

Maybe instead of whining about the setlist they played at your 101st concert you should sit back and be thankful you have been afforded the chance in life to see Pearl Jam that many times live.

I completely agree.

JaneNY

I would never complain about what WAS played, but I think it is okay to go into a show hoping FOR certain songs, and for NOT other songs. I've been to a lot of shows and enjoyed every single one. And these days I go into a show hoping for one of 'those' shows. There's the more conventional show (which are awesome no matter what) and then there's 'those' shows - like maybe MSG 1 03, Ottawa 05, Albany 08, the whole run of Philly 09 shows, Alpine 1 11, and Toronto 1 11. I will rock out to whatever song I hear at a Pearl Jam show and have a blast in the moment (I almost NEVER leave during any song), but I think it is okay to hope for certain things in your mind if you don't act spoiled about it.

BinFrog

There is a fine, sometimes fuzzy line.

I have been to a lot of shows. More than most, less than many. In my head I know the songs I would die to see for the first time. It's not that I am disappointed every time I leave a show and those songs weren't played. Not at all. But I still REALLY want to see them, and if someone asks me what songs I wish they would have played, I have no problem spewing them out. It's not that I didn't LOVE the show(s). Far from it. I still enjoy every show as much as I did my first.

But the discussion can go too far when people start to whine. And when they whine about songs they DID play (ok, aside from Last Kiss...heh), then they can just shaddup. Enjoy every show. Whether they play all hits or a 60 minute Whale Song complete with jam teases of Gremmie and Evil Goat, you know they put on the best show they could and gave it their all. Without playing some of their more popular songs, the majority of people in attendance would leave unfulfilled. They can't tailor shows to the hardcores....that's just not fair.

PJammin'

i've only ever wanted the chance to see pearl jam ONCE in my lifetime. i got that and i am very grateful. i've seen them way more than that so every new show is just icing on the cake.

it's true, people forget that there are people in the building who are seeing them for their first time. when they play Even Flow for instance, i try to experience it again like it is the first time seeing/hearing it. i wouldn't change any of the shows i've seen. each one is unique and a blessing.

PillowPants

if PJ came out and played a rarities show

68% of the crowd would leave by the 11th song

then what would the nerd herd do? complain about the crowd?

or enjoy hearing bugs in an empty, echoing arena?

PJammin'

PillowPants wrote:

if PJ came out and played a rarities show

68% of the crowd would leave by the 11th song

yeah, a rarities show would have to be a fan club only show.

rebornFixer

I get your guys' points, but for the record, people could walk out of a rarities show and I wouldn't give two shits. I don't go to PJ shows to make sure everyone else has a good time.

BinFrog

rebornFixer wrote:

I get your guys' points, but for the record, people could walk out of a rarities show and I wouldn't give two shits. I don't go to PJ shows to make sure everyone else has a good time.

Maybe not, but being at a show where everyone is having a good time can really boost the whole experience to a new level.

rebornFixer

BinFrog wrote:

Maybe not, but being at a show where everyone is having a good time can really boost the whole experience to a new level.

Agreed. My own experience has been that the band can play a bunch of pretty rare songs and the overall vibe remains good. I like that they balance things out, playing both staples and rare songs. Its a perfect blend (IMO). I just don't agree with the argument that they cannot play pretty "out there" setlists. The people complaining about PJ20 night 1 make no sense to me, any more than the people complaining that they play Evenflow almost every night. There's too much polarizing complaining period. And now I'm complaining about that ...

PillowPants

PJammin' wrote:

PillowPants wrote:

if PJ came out and played a rarities show

68% of the crowd would leave by the 11th song

yeah, a rarities show would have to be a fan club only show.

i'm in the fanclub

i don't want a rarities show

they don't play a lot of songs because they don't want to

i'd rather they play songs that they want to and that they've practiced

watching ed read lyrics off his notebook in front of him takes a little bit away from it for me... sorry