"I don't know, so I'm an athiest libertarian"

VINNY GOOMBA

I am not an athiest, but I respect this viewpoint as described by Penn Jillette. Sometimes, "I don't know" is the best answer a person can have, especially when that person really really wants to know something. My inspiration for posting this article came from the immigrant thread, where there is a discussion about whether a not the USA is the best country in the world... In my mind, unless someone has spent tons of time in them all, and has experienced the human perspective in thousands of different ways (somehow), I don't see how any other answer could be better than "I don't know."

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-16/opin ... PM:OPINION

butterjam

I saw the interview and it was really good, as have been every other interview I see with him. Penn is really brilliant.

"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing."

pandora

funny you should write this...Vinny Goomba

as far as the people here, I've always felt you know the most,
clear precise fair and patient. Just a bright star.

But its good to admit and be comforted by "I don't know"
it is a satisfying answer and seems to come easily to those who are secure
in their thoughts.

Me... most everything is based on feel ...
I'll never be able to separate my brain from my heart,
with the later being my comfort.

As someone pointed out here today, with my limited brain cells,
I may bring my share of 'I don't knows' and this will not change about me
but
I'm really liking that too ... along with' I don't know'...
I'll add 'I'm ok'

VINNY GOOMBA

pandora wrote:

funny you should write this...Vinny Goomba

as far as the people here, I've always felt you know the most,
clear precise fair and patient. Just a bright star.

But its good to admit and be comforted by "I don't know"
it is a satisfying answer and seems to come easily to those who are secure
in their thoughts.

Me... most everything is based on feel ...
I'll never be able to separate my brain from my heart,
with the later being my comfort.

As someone pointed out here today, with my limited brain cells,
I may bring my share of 'I don't knows' and this will not change about me
but
I'm really liking that too ... along with' I don't know'...
I'll add 'I'm ok'

Yo! Thanks again for the kind words, you are a sweetheart-- I just try my best to make my points clear when I post here-- brevity NOT being easy for me

I enjoy what you have to write all the time as well, and also find you to be very patient and have a lot of really great ideas.

But yeah, in the grand scheme of things I believe somethings are probably just too big to understand or to control. I definitely view the economy of an entire nation to be one of these things, hence one reason for my issues with central banking.

inlet13

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

pandora

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

pandora wrote:

funny you should write this...Vinny Goomba

as far as the people here, I've always felt you know the most,
clear precise fair and patient. Just a bright star.

But its good to admit and be comforted by "I don't know"
it is a satisfying answer and seems to come easily to those who are secure
in their thoughts.

Me... most everything is based on feel ...
I'll never be able to separate my brain from my heart,
with the later being my comfort.

As someone pointed out here today, with my limited brain cells,
I may bring my share of 'I don't knows' and this will not change about me
but
I'm really liking that too ... along with' I don't know'...
I'll add 'I'm ok'

Yo! Thanks again for the kind words, you are a sweetheart-- I just try my best to make my points clear when I post here-- brevity NOT being easy for me

I enjoy what you have to write all the time as well, and also find you to be very patient and have a lot of really great ideas.

But yeah, in the grand scheme of things I believe somethings are probably just too big to understand or to control. I definitely view the economy of an entire nation to be one of these things, hence one reason for my issues with central banking.

thanks

I fear someone is controlling it all but that's probably my paranoia,
that and those videos my boy has me watching... hard to remain hopeful in doom and gloom.
The rich just keep getting richer and more powerful...
the poor, which is some middle class now, have less freedom and no voice.

how does it go again....

'all you need is love'

but that doesn't keep the tummy from growling.

I'm glad you are here Vinny Goomba
your deep thoughtful ways, class and kindness a wonderful example.

There are many good strong people like you who can make the changes for a better world,
it gives me hope for better days.

Maybe run for local office? God knows we need some fresh... thought...
you thought I was gonna say meat huh?

Jason P

I'm split 50/50 on most of Penn's opinions, but I agree with this one:

It's amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.

pandora

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

perhaps its more eye catching... atheist

not sure anyone would read "I'm an Agnostic Libertarian"

I don't know

VINNY GOOMBA

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

^ Great points right here.

VINNY GOOMBA

Jason P wrote:

I'm split 50/50 on most of Penn's opinions, but I agree with this one:

It's amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.

Absolutely. I love this one as well.

VINNY GOOMBA

pandora wrote:

Maybe run for local office? God knows we need some fresh... thought...
you thought I was gonna say meat huh?

I've been thinking about it a lot lately... Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to cut my hair to do it. Unless people are ready for *GASP* an honest member of the city council with long hair?

Imagine?

pandora

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

pandora wrote:

Maybe run for local office? God knows we need some fresh... thought...
you thought I was gonna say meat huh?

I've been thinking about it a lot lately... Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to cut my hair to do it. Unless people are ready for *GASP* an honest member of the city council with long hair?

Imagine?

Do not cut it! no no no... maybe a slight trim if you feel the need

long hair...that my friend is a selling feature these days

time for a real change

Oh that would be so exciting... if you decide to I wish you so much luck but I just
know you are the answer to someone's troubles out there,
you can make a difference in your community.
Go get um!

catefrances

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

i am absolute in my opinion on the non-existence of God and so refer to agnostics as fence sitters.

LikeAnOcean

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

Atheist do not believe in no god. They just lack belief in the area of the unknown.. Hard to explain, but it would be like me telling a religious person that they do not believe in Lord of the Rings.. Their response would be like "What the fuck?". :P ...It's like If I told you that you didn't believe in something that you had no idea existed in the first place.

An agnostic person could care less one way or the other. Wether there is a god or isn't, isn't going to change their life. More or less, they just go with the flow and accept whatever happens.

catefrances

Gob wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

Atheist do not believe in no god. They just lack belief in the area of the unknown.. Hard to explain, but it would be like me telling a religious person that they do not believe in Lord of the Rings.. Their response would be like "What the fuck?". :P ...It's like If I told you that you didn't believe in something that you had no idea existed in the first place.

An agnostic person could care less one way or the other. Wether there is a god or isn't, isn't going to change their life. More or less, they just go with the flow and accept whatever happens.

as an atheist i can tell you i do not lack belief in the area of the unknown. i fully admit there are things that are unknown to me.. God is not one of them. and he never will be.

inlet13

catefrances wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

i am absolute in my opinion on the non-existence of God and so refer to agnostics as fence sitters.

Good for you.

I've never understood the certainty that there is no God. But, if you feel that way, I have no problem with it at all.

That said, I don't agree with your opinion and more so.. think it's tactically not very smart, but that's another story for another thread.

inlet13

Gob wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

Atheist do not believe in no god. They just lack belief in the area of the unknown.. Hard to explain, but it would be like me telling a religious person that they do not believe in Lord of the Rings.. Their response would be like "What the fuck?". :P ...It's like If I told you that you didn't believe in something that you had no idea existed in the first place.

An agnostic person could care less one way or the other. Wether there is a god or isn't, isn't going to change their life. More or less, they just go with the flow and accept whatever happens.

I don't think you're right in your definitions. According to wiki for instance:

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God, whereas an atheist disbelieves there is a God.

markin ball

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

^ Great points right here.

This originally caught my attention as well so I read the article carefully and found where he said "if I don't know, I don't believe", so I guess he's saying "If I don't know, (maybe in other words "if I'm not sure") there is a god, then I don't believe there is a god", therefore he has made up his mind about it and the atheist label fits, I guess.

catefrances

inlet13 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

What I find ironic is that there's a word for "I don't know" in religion and it's not "atheist". Instead, it's "agnostic".

Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".

This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.

This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.

i am absolute in my opinion on the non-existence of God and so refer to agnostics as fence sitters.

Good for you.

I've never understood the certainty that there is no God. But, if you feel that way, I have no problem with it at all.

That said, I don't agree with your opinion and more so.. think it's tactically not very smart, but that's another story for another thread.

funnily enough ive never understood the certainty that there IS a God. and how is my conviction not tactically smart?

inlet13

catefrances wrote:

funnily enough ive never understood the certainty that there IS a God.

I'd say that I can't conceive of another beginning to everything. The Big Bang is often mentioned, and I don't cast that aside as false... but it doesn't explain the origin to me. If it does for you, good for you.

catefrances wrote:

and how is my conviction not tactically smart?

It isn't tactically smart. It's like betting on something with the risk being your afterlife and with absolutely no reward what-so-ever. Clearly, you don't think afterlife exists. You may or may not be right. But, if you are right, a fervent believer in God will end up in the same exact place as you, in the dirt. So, in a sense, it doesn't get you anything by declaring your atheism. If they are right, however, it may get them something and you nothing, or worse you some form of distance from God. Or, who knows.. you may both exist just fine in an after life. Who knows.... but, my point stands... there's nothing to be lost by believing in God... there's a lot to be lost by not believing.

To me, atheism is not tactically smart.

inlet13

double post