"I don't know, so I'm an athiest libertarian"
VINNY GOOMBA
Posts: 1,818
I am not an athiest, but I respect this viewpoint as described by Penn Jillette. Sometimes, "I don't know" is the best answer a person can have, especially when that person really really wants to know something. My inspiration for posting this article came from the immigrant thread, where there is a discussion about whether a not the USA is the best country in the world... In my mind, unless someone has spent tons of time in them all, and has experienced the human perspective in thousands of different ways (somehow), I don't see how any other answer could be better than "I don't know."
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-16/opin ... PM:OPINION
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-16/opin ... PM:OPINION
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"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing."
as far as the people here, I've always felt you know the most,
clear precise fair and patient. Just a bright star.
But its good to admit and be comforted by "I don't know"
it is a satisfying answer and seems to come easily to those who are secure
in their thoughts.
Me... most everything is based on feel ...
I'll never be able to separate my brain from my heart,
with the later being my comfort.
As someone pointed out here today, with my limited brain cells,
I may bring my share of 'I don't knows' and this will not change about me
but
I'm really liking that too ... along with' I don't know'...
I'll add 'I'm ok'
Yo! Thanks again for the kind words, you are a sweetheart-- I just try my best to make my points clear when I post here-- brevity NOT being easy for me
I enjoy what you have to write all the time as well, and also find you to be very patient and have a lot of really great ideas.
But yeah, in the grand scheme of things I believe somethings are probably just too big to understand or to control. I definitely view the economy of an entire nation to be one of these things, hence one reason for my issues with central banking.
Atheist is one who "knows" (or believes) there is no God. Agnostic is one who admittedly "does not know".
This is not a slight at the OP... it's a bit of a slight at Penn. He should know better.
This difference bothers me, particularly when agnostics are lumped in with atheists because there's such a large difference between the two.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I fear someone is controlling it all but that's probably my paranoia,
that and those videos my boy has me watching... hard to remain hopeful in doom and gloom.
The rich just keep getting richer and more powerful...
the poor, which is some middle class now, have less freedom and no voice.
how does it go again....
'all you need is love'
but that doesn't keep the tummy from growling.
I'm glad you are here Vinny Goomba
your deep thoughtful ways, class and kindness a wonderful example.
There are many good strong people like you who can make the changes for a better world,
it gives me hope for better days.
Maybe run for local office? God knows we need some fresh... thought...
you thought I was gonna say meat huh?
It's amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.
not sure anyone would read "I'm an Agnostic Libertarian"
I don't know
^ Great points right here.
Absolutely. I love this one as well.
I've been thinking about it a lot lately... Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to cut my hair to do it. Unless people are ready for *GASP* an honest member of the city council with long hair?
Imagine?
long hair...that my friend is a selling feature these days
time for a real change
Oh that would be so exciting... if you decide to I wish you so much luck but I just
know you are the answer to someone's troubles out there,
you can make a difference in your community.
Go get um!
i am absolute in my opinion on the non-existence of God and so refer to agnostics as fence sitters.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
An agnostic person could care less one way or the other. Wether there is a god or isn't, isn't going to change their life. More or less, they just go with the flow and accept whatever happens.
as an atheist i can tell you i do not lack belief in the area of the unknown. i fully admit there are things that are unknown to me.. God is not one of them. and he never will be.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Good for you.
I've never understood the certainty that there is no God. But, if you feel that way, I have no problem with it at all.
That said, I don't agree with your opinion and more so.. think it's tactically not very smart, but that's another story for another thread.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I don't think you're right in your definitions. According to wiki for instance:
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God, whereas an atheist disbelieves there is a God.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
This originally caught my attention as well so I read the article carefully and found where he said "if I don't know, I don't believe", so I guess he's saying "If I don't know, (maybe in other words "if I'm not sure") there is a god, then I don't believe there is a god", therefore he has made up his mind about it and the atheist label fits, I guess.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
funnily enough ive never understood the certainty that there IS a God. and how is my conviction not tactically smart?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I'd say that I can't conceive of another beginning to everything. The Big Bang is often mentioned, and I don't cast that aside as false... but it doesn't explain the origin to me. If it does for you, good for you.
It isn't tactically smart. It's like betting on something with the risk being your afterlife and with absolutely no reward what-so-ever. Clearly, you don't think afterlife exists. You may or may not be right. But, if you are right, a fervent believer in God will end up in the same exact place as you, in the dirt. So, in a sense, it doesn't get you anything by declaring your atheism. If they are right, however, it may get them something and you nothing, or worse you some form of distance from God. Or, who knows.. you may both exist just fine in an after life. Who knows.... but, my point stands... there's nothing to be lost by believing in God... there's a lot to be lost by not believing.
To me, atheism is not tactically smart.
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declaring my atheism isnt suppose to get me anything. and its not a tactic. and you dont seem to get it. i cant just decide to believe just in case.. there is no just in case. for me, this life is all we get. why do believers think theyre owed a reward after death?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I know it's not supposed to "get you anything", I understand that all to well. I also understand it's not a tactic for you. And finally, I actually do get it.
I'm not saying you need to decide just in case. My point is I actually think deep inside each and every atheist there's a slight bit of doubt that they are wrong. To me, that slight bit of doubt should override the definitive declaration of belief in no God... #1 It's not definitive and #2 there's potential consequences.
But, to each his or her own. You asked me to spell it out and I did. I think atheists are screaming for attention, basically. No offense. Otherwise, they'd be agnostic.
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im glad you spelled it our for me. it needed to be done. thank you.
there is zero doubt in my mind when it comes to the non existence of God... if there was, id be an agnostic. and because of that zero doubt i am an atheist. i am not screaming out for attention. if i was id probably take offense at your (not so)veiled derogation. i dont need attention... nor do i want it. as i said, i cant just choose to believe.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The tactic is useless as there are an infinite amount of possibilities. It's a one in infinity shot. Even if you hit the one in infinity shot god would just turn out to be a prick if it denied you an "afterlife" for just coming to a logical conclusion.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
it's sometimes a bit shit, but most often i find it more comforting to look at the evidence and realise that I am the only force in control of my own life.
I don't agree about the "God being a prick if he denied you an afterlife part". Think about it this way, by declaring your atheism, you are making a choice to distance yourself from God in the present world, which could impact you in the afterlife. To me, the afterlife is us all being reunited in a sense. It's something we actually long for in the present world, but it's obviously impossible here because of time. Your definitive choice now (in time) that you don't want to be part of that in the afterlife is your choice alone, not God's. He have us free will. I, by no means am saying an atheist can't change his or her mind on their deathbed. I'm also not saying I'm 100% right. But, this is what I believe. I believe we are choosing right now what we want in our afterlife, because I, like most humans, believe in some sort of afterlife.
I do think atheism is tactically a silly approach because there's absolutely no reward for being right, all the risk in world and no atheist is 100% certain in their belief.
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See, I think you aren't an atheist then.
This is what my first post was all about. People think they are atheists but don't really know what the term means.
P.S. I don't think your points above are incompatible with many organized religion's view on God. I agree, it's rather elementary to think that God is a person who sits up in the clouds and has a white beard. Even the judgment day is a bit elementary to me. In my opinion, we're deciding our judgment right now... that's why near death experiences always involve flashbacks (a review of our life) and a white light (us rejoining God). Once again, to me, it's US who decide our afterlife... not God. Because, to me, we're already a part of God outside of time. The problem is thinking of "timeless" is both scary and vacant to a human on earth.
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i would disagree with this firstly because not all people who expierence near death expierences see this and there could and are many other explanations for what people see and feel with near death expierences, for example it could be the brain firing of information as it dies.
secondly i most definatly am an athiest because my definition of athiesm is the rejection of a belief in a deity. that doesn't mean i think it is impossible that one exists, just as i see it there is no evidence for a deity to exist, and in fact there is evidence that for me points away from a deity existing.
thirdly i think my points above where incompatible with organised religion, because all* organised religion is based on a communication with god, which under my hypothysis could not happen.
*all that i have expierence of or heard of to my memory.
I get all that, I really do, but your beliefs are based on enormous assumptions, especially that the god you are worshiping is the supreme being. This is what I refereed to as being the 1 in infinity shot. So that's why I say your chance is really no better than the atheist denying any god altogether. Another big assumptions in your post that is highly debatable is the concept of free will.
And yes, even if what you believe is true, god would be a major super prick if he gave you reasoning, logic, free will, and the enormous imperfections of the human condition, and then denied you an afterlife in the end because you couldn't get it all sorted out on earth.
"With our thoughts we make the world"