Why a good life need not be a long life.
Mikee J
Posts: 1,323
Below is an article I read yesterday. A very good read I thought.. quite thought provoking.. I like the thought that a life doesn't need to be long to be good. It was written in the wake of Amy Winehouse' death.
Link is below also:
http://bigthink.com/ideas/39418#comments
Written by David Berreby
"I know I will not make old bones," says Achilles in Christopher Logue's modern Iliad. I personally have seen enough old people staring, drooling, groaning and pissing into their giant diapers to sympathize with a wish to quit while you're still ahead. Today, though, we're all supposed to want to live forever. It's not enough to be sad about Amy Winehouse's death at 27 this week. We're expected to feel something like outrage, because no one is supposed to die that young.
Other eras had a different view. In Book Nine of the Iliad Achilles recounts how his immortal mother had given him a choice. He could have a long, tranquil life at the end of which he would, like most of us, be utterly forgotten—or a life of triumph and glory, which would leave his name shining brightly for thousands of years. But that life would be short. As you're reading about him 3,000 years later, you know what he decided.
Which is hard to get the modern head around. With our technologies for life extension we think it normal to live past 65, 75, or even 85. This is one reason many nations are on the long-term road to insolvency: when the U.S. Social Security program was instituted in 1935, only half of men who lived to 21 could expect to make it to the retirement age of 65. Now nearly everyone makes it, which is threatening to bankrupt future generations.
Why do we think longevity so natural and right? In part, I think, it's because we think of it as the byproduct of living well: We like to think the traits that make life sweet are those that make it long. But this long-term study of longevity over decades suggests that's not so. Over 20 years, Howard S. Friedman, a psychologist at the University of California, Riverside, and his colleagues studied 1,500 "gifted" children identified in 1921 by Louis Terman, a psychologist at Stanford. Friedman's team looked at the lifetime data on these kids, who were about ten when first identified—their relationships, their personalities (as reported by teachers and parents) educations, work history and so on.
Of course, some of the kids in the study were more cheerful and optimistic than others. Some had better sense of humor. On average, they died sooner. Similarly, people who seemed happy-go-lucky and didn't stress about work also died at younger ages. And people who reported they felt loved and cared for? Also less likely to life longer. Friedman et al. believe the sunnier people were too cheerful for the long haul—expecting things to work out, they took too many risks.
Who did that leave to win the longevity sweepstakes? As the Publisher's Weekly review put it, "If there's a secret to old age, the authors find, it's living conscientiously and bringing forethought, planning, and perseverance to one's professional and personal life."
In other words, if you want to live long, you're better off being a bit of a buzzkill, with a touch of the bore. Plod along, don't stand out, eat your peas, get your mammogram and count your pennies. Society needs such people, for sure. But in a choice between an MP3 of Amy Winehouse singing and one of these citizens discussing their tax strategy, I'll take the late Ms. Winehouse, thank you. Society benefits from people with the charm, joy in the moment, monomaniacal dedication and lack of interest in self-preservation that seem to make for a shorter life. We don't all need to make old bones.
Winehouse died at 27, which is strikingly young (it's close to half my age, and I'd have hated to miss the past 26 years) but, as a number of media outlets reported, other stars have blown out at exactly the same age (Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison). Many others went at roughly the same time in life (Heath Ledger, James Dean). The briefness of their time on Earth is sad; but mourning an individual does not require us to believe that no life should be brief.
That's the theme of this wonderful essay by Dudley Clendinen, a longtime Timesman who has amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's disease) and who is clear, at age 66, that he is not interested in becoming "a conscious but motionless, mute, withered, incontinent mummy of my former self." Lingering on, he writes, "would be a colossal waste of love and money." Instead, he says, simply: "I'd rather die."
Until that moment comes, Clendinen says, he is having a good time, appreciating what he calls "the Good Short Life." He believe it is fine, sweet and decorous—fully and naturally human—not to make old bones. We could use more of this strain in our national conversation. In which we assume (if talking about future Federal deficits) that millions of people can and should live as close to forever as they can. In which we assume (if talking about our own lives) that we're obligated to hang on until the last machine-aided breath. In which we assume, if talking about technology, that the right question is how it can extend our lease on Earth for centuries—instead of asking what point and value all those lingering years might have.
It is sad to exit at age 27, or even at age 66. But it doesn't mean one didn't have a good life.
Link is below also:
http://bigthink.com/ideas/39418#comments
Written by David Berreby
"I know I will not make old bones," says Achilles in Christopher Logue's modern Iliad. I personally have seen enough old people staring, drooling, groaning and pissing into their giant diapers to sympathize with a wish to quit while you're still ahead. Today, though, we're all supposed to want to live forever. It's not enough to be sad about Amy Winehouse's death at 27 this week. We're expected to feel something like outrage, because no one is supposed to die that young.
Other eras had a different view. In Book Nine of the Iliad Achilles recounts how his immortal mother had given him a choice. He could have a long, tranquil life at the end of which he would, like most of us, be utterly forgotten—or a life of triumph and glory, which would leave his name shining brightly for thousands of years. But that life would be short. As you're reading about him 3,000 years later, you know what he decided.
Which is hard to get the modern head around. With our technologies for life extension we think it normal to live past 65, 75, or even 85. This is one reason many nations are on the long-term road to insolvency: when the U.S. Social Security program was instituted in 1935, only half of men who lived to 21 could expect to make it to the retirement age of 65. Now nearly everyone makes it, which is threatening to bankrupt future generations.
Why do we think longevity so natural and right? In part, I think, it's because we think of it as the byproduct of living well: We like to think the traits that make life sweet are those that make it long. But this long-term study of longevity over decades suggests that's not so. Over 20 years, Howard S. Friedman, a psychologist at the University of California, Riverside, and his colleagues studied 1,500 "gifted" children identified in 1921 by Louis Terman, a psychologist at Stanford. Friedman's team looked at the lifetime data on these kids, who were about ten when first identified—their relationships, their personalities (as reported by teachers and parents) educations, work history and so on.
Of course, some of the kids in the study were more cheerful and optimistic than others. Some had better sense of humor. On average, they died sooner. Similarly, people who seemed happy-go-lucky and didn't stress about work also died at younger ages. And people who reported they felt loved and cared for? Also less likely to life longer. Friedman et al. believe the sunnier people were too cheerful for the long haul—expecting things to work out, they took too many risks.
Who did that leave to win the longevity sweepstakes? As the Publisher's Weekly review put it, "If there's a secret to old age, the authors find, it's living conscientiously and bringing forethought, planning, and perseverance to one's professional and personal life."
In other words, if you want to live long, you're better off being a bit of a buzzkill, with a touch of the bore. Plod along, don't stand out, eat your peas, get your mammogram and count your pennies. Society needs such people, for sure. But in a choice between an MP3 of Amy Winehouse singing and one of these citizens discussing their tax strategy, I'll take the late Ms. Winehouse, thank you. Society benefits from people with the charm, joy in the moment, monomaniacal dedication and lack of interest in self-preservation that seem to make for a shorter life. We don't all need to make old bones.
Winehouse died at 27, which is strikingly young (it's close to half my age, and I'd have hated to miss the past 26 years) but, as a number of media outlets reported, other stars have blown out at exactly the same age (Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison). Many others went at roughly the same time in life (Heath Ledger, James Dean). The briefness of their time on Earth is sad; but mourning an individual does not require us to believe that no life should be brief.
That's the theme of this wonderful essay by Dudley Clendinen, a longtime Timesman who has amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's disease) and who is clear, at age 66, that he is not interested in becoming "a conscious but motionless, mute, withered, incontinent mummy of my former self." Lingering on, he writes, "would be a colossal waste of love and money." Instead, he says, simply: "I'd rather die."
Until that moment comes, Clendinen says, he is having a good time, appreciating what he calls "the Good Short Life." He believe it is fine, sweet and decorous—fully and naturally human—not to make old bones. We could use more of this strain in our national conversation. In which we assume (if talking about future Federal deficits) that millions of people can and should live as close to forever as they can. In which we assume (if talking about our own lives) that we're obligated to hang on until the last machine-aided breath. In which we assume, if talking about technology, that the right question is how it can extend our lease on Earth for centuries—instead of asking what point and value all those lingering years might have.
It is sad to exit at age 27, or even at age 66. But it doesn't mean one didn't have a good life.
"My body's nobody's body but mine"
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Comments
I read the original article and some of the comments. I'm reposting the one Jack Conway left because I share his exact thoughts and he speaks it better than I could:
Let’s not imagine that the life of a person who contributes amazing art to the world is necessarily a good life, though. Miss Winehouse died, I imagine, as a result of her drug addiction, and whether or not her drug use had a positive effect on her music, it most likely meant that she battled the psychological effects every day, hurt her family and friends, and ultimately succumbed to the disease. The loss of anybody this young to an addiction is not a case of the candle burning brightest.
I see many aged people who live extremely creative lives, like film composer John Williams or Herbie Hancock, both over 70 and both incredibly talented musicians who work at a rate that puts younger musicians to shame. With age comes wisdom, experience (and experiences). I’m young but I look forward to that, especially over a death at 27 of a drug overdose.
Noblesville 5/7/10, PJ20 Alpine 9/3/11- 9/4/11, MIA Philly 9/2/12, Missoula 9/30/12, Wrigley 7/19/13, Pittsburgh 10/11/13, Buffalo 10/12/13
Noblesville 5/7/10, PJ20 Alpine 9/3/11- 9/4/11, MIA Philly 9/2/12, Missoula 9/30/12, Wrigley 7/19/13, Pittsburgh 10/11/13, Buffalo 10/12/13
" Get busy living or get busy dying " one of my favorite quotes....
I think you make a really good point. The author seems to be making a wider point about societies obsession with getting old and how we perceive dying young as a failure in that respect. I did think that he may have used the Winehouse death as a bit of a example to prove his point, not sure it was totally the right choice.
I have worked with older people for most of my professional life and I can say, through experience, getting really old is no party for some people either. I think the article just stated nicely how society seems to hold age as a quantifier for good. Its all about quality not quantity and in her short life Amy Winehouse did some real quality things and gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure. And I don't think that takes anything away from the tragedy of it. I mean, you couldn't find a newspaper here which didn't end with the paragraph laying out her addiction for all to see. Why not just leave it at the good bits? Like you said, she and her family had to deal with the bad bits.
Though ideally I'd like to be stuck at 35-37 years of age.
Still, In the meantime I'm gonna try and get the most out of the short time I have here. I plan to rip the ass out of the next ten years.
I wouldn't trade my life for anybody, especially people like a Cobain, Winehouse, etc. Oh boy fame and fortune but you're still a mess coping with the DNA that you got graced with. I had a friend hang himself at 21, another taken away in a motorcycle accident at 18. They both had so much life in them. The first always had a problem with the skin he was in but was a super guy. There was somethings in his life, brain, circumstances that led to one really bad (wrong) day. The other guy was on his first real ride with another buddy and made a wrong turn and ended up on a highway and then in the after life not too soon after that. I'm sure with a little help for the first friend and a bit of good fate for the second that they both would like to be around right now sharing stories 30 odd years down the road about other stupid things we did and are probably going to do while we age and enjoy life.
I sure don't want to live for ever, as pain from different injuries is already catching up with me. But I sure would have missed some very good times in life if I weren't here up until now.
Shit people how many of you think life has already passed you by pretty quick? And we are all not that old.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Certainly dying from a progressive fatal disease such as Lou Gehrig's or from the various ailments of old age is full of suffering and hurts loved ones immensely. But I feel there is an undeniable distinction in that:
#1 There is a way out of addiction. It is not curable but it is treatable; and #2 Addiction carries with it such a cruel stigma. If one hasn't sought to understand the disease it is too easy to pass it off as merely a weak moral compass and personal failing. These beliefs help keep sick people (because they believe it too) in shame and from seeking the help they need.
Noblesville 5/7/10, PJ20 Alpine 9/3/11- 9/4/11, MIA Philly 9/2/12, Missoula 9/30/12, Wrigley 7/19/13, Pittsburgh 10/11/13, Buffalo 10/12/13
"And in the end it is not the years in your life that count, it's the life in your years."
— Abraham Lincoln
I've known people personally addicted to drugs, they fear death like most people.
Their lives are not even bad lives but in these cases
undiagnosed personality disorders draws them to drugs and booze.. usually a combination.
If they don't seek help with conventional medicine and treatment from a doctor
they 'get right' with illegals and alcohol.
This escalates because it's a habit and there is some immunity that grows from use.
In these cases they also witnessed the fun and acceptance of illegals and alcohol
from their roll models as small children, making the use ok... not the abuse, the use.
I agree its wrong to equate the above people with a person in his 60's with a progressive condition who has the insight and knowledge to inform his himself on the future he wants. But at the same time it is interesting to equate it with the authors point of life being about quality and not quality. One I agree with wholeheartedly.
love this quote!
This is an interesting topic.
I used to be scared of death, and that was before I did a lot of questionable things. But that was also before I accomplished anything. I remember a few years ago after I had done a few things that I was very proud of, I was driving down I-95 highway and I was thinking that if a truck rolled over and killed me I wouldnt be all that upset about it. I remember finally feeling OK with death, if and when it comes..
Very good thoughts MikeeJ, I agree.. and its sad that many of us have become desensitized to this kind of thing, perhaps because of how common it has become, reality shows, and the "hard-to-look-away from trainwreck" mentality that has seemed to have evolved..
Abe is full of 'em... he's quite the guy... I never knew that till recently
I see a lot of your great Abe quotes...
who knew the guy had so much time to come up with such great lines?!
Also, he had a vivid prophetic dream of his death,
that he shared with many a little over a week before his death.
This I didn't know til I got some nice books from a friend here.
He dreamed the pictures of people who had gathered for his wake at his home.
I feel he was very connected spiritually
and had a definite purpose to be here, as we can see now.
Bless his heart, bless his soul...
I wonder where his journey lead after he left this world
I guess the history books in GA weren't too fond of him, eh??
My son knew so much about him though when I was recently studying Abe.
But he is a sponge for knowledge and retains it ... doesn't take after me
I grew up in WI and don't remember history class