Best chart on AMT in the last 8 weeks:

Go Beavers

The Atlantic is definitely one of the better ones.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/

Jason P

I didn't realize raping a taxpayer's paystub was considered a "cost".

cincybearcat

Jason P wrote:

I didn't realize raping a taxpayer's paystub was considered a "cost".

I wondered the same thing.

Go Beavers

Jason P wrote:

I didn't realize raping a taxpayer's paystub was considered a "cost".

I didn't realize tax cuts are being redefined as "raping a taxpayer's paystub".

Smellyman

http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo44/jduin/Debt.png?t=131135598

RFTC

i saw this in the nyt yesterday and stared at it in disbelief, after a couple of min i was like, 'wtf am i missing'. i mean we know the foregone rev of the bush tax cuts and the cost of the wars are easy math.

maybe obama should break out some flip charts tonite like old ross perot.

btw, i am in a favor of a compromise in this mess. the reid plan is laughable and the boehner plan is doubly absurd imo...maybe time to double down on silver :twisted:

DriftingByTheStorm

As I said above, the point of the chart really isn't partisan responsibility. It is the central role of those tax cuts in creating the deficit that is now the focus of such political attention.

This is the most idiotically "partisan" comment disguised as a "non-partisan" commentary i have seen in 8 weeks.

The notion that tax cuts are at the root of our deficit is such an untenable position as to be laughable.

Does no one else comprehend how idiotic this is?

THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IS NOT TO GRUB UP AS MUCH TAX REVENUE AS POSSIBLE TO FUND EXTRA-CONSTITUTIONAL (read: UN constitutional) AGENDAS.

Claiming that a reduction in government confiscation of citizen wealth is the inherent cause of the government's inability to meet it's own obligations is like claiming that a net reduction in consumer credit card spending is responsible for a lowering of the GDP. While it may be true that through some obscure abstraction of economics that credit card spending equals credit credit card company profits and therefore contributes to GDP ... it is absurd to insinuate that a reduction in consumer debt is the root cause of a decrease in national PRODUCTION.

Sorry for the lame analogy, but this writer is off his rocker in this assertion.
Pardon my unusually blue-hating comment here: but only a democrat so full of his own party's bullshit that it is coming out of his eyes and is therefore blind could spew this crap with a straight face.

??????????????? WTF ?????????????????????
You want a reduction of national deficit ...
CUT SPENDING, YOU FUCKING IDIOT!


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Jeez.
According to my charts, the root cause of the Federal deficit is ...
SURPRISE FUCKING SURPISE ...
*** FEDERAL FUCKING SPENDING ***

OMFG.
how did that happen?

You mean it ISN'T "MORE" Bush's fault than Obamas?
You mean ... you mean ... it ... DOESN'T MATTER ... if the guy in office is RED or BLUE ???

OMFG.

markin ball

The one thing i would hope we can take away from this is that while the blue team may or may not be better, the red team has no leg to stand on when it comes to spending. This myth that republicans are more responsible with tax dollars has got to stop. If you believe that they are, you're just lying to yourself and you know it.

FiveB247x

Over-politicized partisan grandstanding and nonsense. The debt isn't gonna get fixed or seriously addressed.

We're just playing hot potato and the future generations will lose out as a result. What ever happened to building a place so your children or fellow citizens would be better off than you were?? I think when our nation (and empire) finally hits bottom, it will leave the world worse off as a whole with no other nation to fill the void with the same stature (same as the USSR did), while our ever-lasting contribution to the modern world is self-interest. Just as shitty as everywhere else, just more comfortable with consumerism and gadgets, but we like to claim moral high ground and altruism. Nothing worse than wasted talent and lackluster effort ...we mourn that sentiment for "celebrities" yet aren't honest enough to look in the mirror at our culture and society as a whole with the same rational and logic. So sad.

Green Disease!

Jason P

markin ball wrote:

The one thing i would hope we can take away from this is that while the blue team may or may not be better, the red team has no leg to stand on when it comes to spending. This myth that republicans are more responsible with tax dollars has got to stop. If you believe that they are, you're just lying to yourself and you know it.

I don't believe the Republicans are more responsible with tax dollars ... in fact, the phrase "responsible with tax dollars" shouldn't be associated with any of our elected government officials. We are in this debt mess because their has been a severe lack of fiscal responsibility on both sides of the aisle.

DriftingByTheStorm

FiveB247x wrote:

think when our nation (and empire) finally hits bottom, it will leave the world worse off as a whole with no other nation to fill the void with the same stature

i think thats kind of the point (ie. the plan).
When the powers that be knock our nation down to parity with the rest of the (developed) world,
the only way out (for the world as a whole) will be for the world as a whole to work together. Probably through some more powerful body like the UN on steroids.

I have to say I think that this model has some big problems, first and foremost the idea of a pan-national currency STINKS. The Euro is proving that plainly and painfully right now.

We'll see. This debt ceiling extension is like a band-aid on a gun shot wound. That the United States government can't get a grip on it's own spending concerns is a seriously sad state of a affairs.

FiveB247x

I mostly agree with you, but the Euro and the EU as a whole was mostly put into place as a way to sustain their competitiveness in the world economy, but unfortunately due to some terrible decisions and investing, their inclusionary practices have backfired and are now dragging them down. Anyways, the main reason we don't really have to address our debt is because we're the world's bookie. No other nation can step into our shoes (for better or worse), and no one can force us to make the necessary changes we make other adhere too (many of which are awful the societies who implement them)...and yes, I'm looking at you IMF Adjustment plans. Lastly, the great failure of the 20th Century is the lack of selflessness by nations form a stronger world committee (like the UN) to avoid self-interest and wars from rising up again. Sadly, that failure has left us with the world we see today, self-interested nations acting only on their own behalf and not really interested in creating something better...and that's only exacerbated by greed and globalization.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

think when our nation (and empire) finally hits bottom, it will leave the world worse off as a whole with no other nation to fill the void with the same stature

i think thats kind of the point (ie. the plan).
When the powers that be knock our nation down to parity with the rest of the (developed) world,
the only way out (for the world as a whole) will be for the world as a whole to work together. Probably through some more powerful body like the UN on steroids.

I have to say I think that this model has some big problems, first and foremost the idea of a pan-national currency STINKS. The Euro is proving that plainly and painfully right now.

We'll see. This debt ceiling extension is like a band-aid on a gun shot wound. That the United States government can't get a grip on it's own spending concerns is a seriously sad state of a affairs.