Keep on blaming the evil boogieman if it makes you feel better. Or stop supporting the evil corporations. Of course, then you won't have any $...won't be able to get back online to talk to us about how it's going...won't have a phone to call anyone...what will you have?
so dramatic....and so unlike you...
I guess you're saying since I think corporations should pay taxes, I should no longer be a consumer...interesting take...I guess I'll have nothing ever again, you know, since I think corporations should pay taxes...(((sigh)))
Keep on blaming the evil boogieman if it makes you feel better. Or stop supporting the evil corporations. Of course, then you won't have any $...won't be able to get back online to talk to us about how it's going...won't have a phone to call anyone...what will you have?
Homemade hemp clothes and rope or maybe just B.O?
on the plus side you would simplicity.
The people that talk about corporations in constant negative tone don't understand or want to understand the realities of it all...Corporations do pay taxes. Let me say that again, corporations do pay taxes. I don't understand the corporate tax code like professionals, but in payroll taxes alone without corporations there wouldn't be social security or medicaid/medicare I can tell you that...but like you say it is much easier to have a conflict theory perspective of faceless entities than challenge your own beliefs on capitalism or the wealthy and realize that those things may not be quite as evil as originally thought.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Homemade hemp clothes and rope or maybe just B.O?
on the plus side you would simplicity.
The people that talk about corporations in constant negative tone don't understand or want to understand the realities of it all...Corporations do pay taxes. Let me say that again, corporations do pay taxes. I don't understand the corporate tax code like professionals, but in payroll taxes alone without corporations there wouldn't be social security or medicaid/medicare I can tell you that...but like you say it is much easier to have a conflict theory perspective of faceless entities than challenge your own beliefs on capitalism or the wealthy and realize that those things may not be quite as evil as originally thought.
deep stuff, mike...
folks assume I hate corporations...I don't hate anything...I'm all about the love...the love,baby...
seriously, I don't understand why we all can't go back to Clinton era tax rates...and I don't understand the steadfast defense of the wealthy and corporations...I'm not saying everyone should dislike or hate them, I just don't get it when a middle class person is willing to support cutting SS or medicare, two things that middle class folks will benefit from in there lifetime, and go on to defend "job creators" (who are not job creators at all) from paying a bit more in taxes...
Homemade hemp clothes and rope or maybe just B.O?
on the plus side you would simplicity.
The people that talk about corporations in constant negative tone don't understand or want to understand the realities of it all...Corporations do pay taxes. Let me say that again, corporations do pay taxes. I don't understand the corporate tax code like professionals, but in payroll taxes alone without corporations there wouldn't be social security or medicaid/medicare I can tell you that...but like you say it is much easier to have a conflict theory perspective of faceless entities than challenge your own beliefs on capitalism or the wealthy and realize that those things may not be quite as evil as originally thought.
deep stuff, mike...
folks assume I hate corporations...I don't hate anything...I'm all about the love...the love,baby...
seriously, I don't understand why we all can't go back to Clinton era tax rates...and I don't understand the steadfast defense of the wealthy and corporations...I'm not saying everyone should dislike or hate them, I just don't get it when a middle class person is willing to support cutting SS or medicare, two things that middle class folks will benefit from in there lifetime, and go on to defend "job creators" (who are not job creators at all) from paying a bit more in taxes...
it befuddles me...
you may disagree with me, but it was as deep as the ocean baby!!!
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
+1
What I don't understand is why anyone thinks it's a good idea to give more money to the government - i.e. raise taxes on anyone.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
you may disagree with me, but it was as deep as the ocean baby!!!
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
who are...? those who spend money...consumers...where do you think those folks get there money...? From the consumer...
oh, and that pesky gov't happens to biggest employer in the good ol' US of A...so I would add them to list of "job creators"....
why Clinton levels...because from what I've seen, that will cure the problem...I have to ask why not go to thos levels?...the bush tax cuts aren't creating jobs...
and you act as if the gov't should be perfect being who should be spanked and put in the corner....this fetishism over "spending" is amusing...the gov't has been spending for quite some time, that's kinda how things work...and gov't spending spurs jobs...
you see, the gov't is us...you and me...we are part of it...and we reap the rewards of safety and security and guidance because we pay for it...we may not agree with everything...but in a nation of 307 million people, it's kinda hard to get everyone to agree on everything...
I know some think that by simply "cutting spending" the debt concerns will go away...hate to say it, but it won't...you're smart enough to know that..."cutting spending" and "raising revenue" will...
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
than why have i been paying 6.25% for the last X number of years, and than 4.25% this year (dumbest tax break ever)
i have no problem with ditching Socical Security, but i do have a problem with them taking my money and saying that when i retire i get something. can't do that.
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
than why have i been paying 6.25% for the last X number of years, and than 4.25% this year (dumbest tax break ever)
i have no problem with ditching Socical Security, but i do have a problem with them taking my money and saying that when i retire i get something. can't do that.
They are already doing that.
I've said for years that if they stopped making me pay it today, I'd let them keep everything they've taken and I'd sign a release for any future claim against Social Security.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
you may disagree with me, but it was as deep as the ocean baby!!!
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
who are...? those who spend money...consumers...where do you think those folks get there money...? From the consumer...
creating a business takes capital...that capital comes from banks, you are right, without consumers there would be no need for companies to make products...but without the initial risk their would be no businesses paying their employees money to turn around and buy products. This chicken egg argument doesn't work. What it comes down to is how did the a job get created? By risk, or by taxation? which one creates new, taxable wealth?
oh, and that pesky gov't happens to biggest employer in the good ol' US of A...so I would add them to list of "job creators"....
You are right...Government jobs alone do not create wealth or capital...it is all recycled money that will run out when the people who have private money stop trying to grow businesses and simply sit on their hands and say we are done spending until you get your shit straight(kind of like what is happening now) Where do they get the money to pay for those jobs? from the private sector...or they borrow it from banks who have the ability to PRINT MONEY...without new, taxable wealth, the system will simply die on the vine.
i think the government serves functions, I just happen to think they are too big. The federal government should not be the largest employer in the country, in any country.
why Clinton levels...because from what I've seen, that will cure the problem...I have to ask why not go to thos levels?...the bush tax cuts aren't creating jobs...do you think the tax cuts are solely responsible for
without massive changes to many things the system will not be fixed. Adding 4% income tax to the richest of us will not fix the problem. It would POSSIBLY raise revenue, no proof that it will...but raising taxes in a time of economic crisis isn't smart...at least it isn't according to the guy in office who said that very thing just a few short months ago when he extended the tax cuts...
and you act as if the gov't should be a perfect being who should be spanked and put in the corner....this fetishism over "spending" is amusing...the gov't has been spending for quite some time, that's kinda how things work...and gov't spending spurs jobs...
Government spending also spurs bubbles(housing), which create markets which burst and then the jobs are gone...programs supported and subsidized go by the way side and we are left with what? huge unemployment and more borrowing to spend money to "stimulate" the economy further driving inflation which makes all of our money worth less and products cost more. It is a never ending cycle that needs to be broken. I have no problem with the government spending, as I said, I know that the government serves functions, I just want them to spend what they take in...explain to me why that is a problem...inflation and devaluation are a big problem...I saw somewhere and I will get the exact numbers if you don't believe me...that it takes around 227,000 dollars to raise a kid now as compared to 1960 when the same lifestyle would have cost 18,000...that 18,000 then equaled about 189,000 in todays dollars...doesn't that scare you. I don't know what scares me more, the never ending decrease of what a dollar can get you, or the fact that it is about 20% more expensive to have a kid. Inflation and devaluation are very serious. that was 50 years ago...50 years from now is it going to cost a million per kid for the same things? how could that happen? you see I am not against the US government, I am against the decisions that make a soda worth 1.50 today rather than 10 cents 50 years ago...it scares me to think how far it will go...
but that is another topic.
you see, the gov't is us...you and me...we are part of it...and we reap the rewards of safety and security and guidance because we pay for it...we may not agree with everything...but in a nation of 307 million people, it's kinda hard to get everyone to agree on everything...
agree completely. I just want them to spend what they take in and stop worrying about keeping their jobs to the point where they make decisions that are harmful...(term limits anyone)
The debt ceiling is a great example. one side wants a temporary increase to make sure this comes up again before the elections because they believe they can spin it to win in the court of public opinion, and the other side won't accept a short term deal because that means that the issue of deficits and spending will be brought up again before the next presidential election. Both can suck my ass as far as I am concerned. They all got us here.
I know some think that by simply "cutting spending" the debt concerns will go away...hate to say it, but it won't...you're smart enough to know that..."cutting spending" and "raising revenue" will...
I know that simply cutting spending won't erase the debt overnight, but it can over time. Until they can get deficit spending under control, why should I be under the impression they will be any more responsible with the new revenue they want? Also, raising taxes isn't the only way to raise revenue. Getting the economy going will do the same thing.
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
is it cuts or a new way to distribute benefits? Do you consider raising the retirement age a cut? The programs cannot sustain without changes. and those changes should be gradually enacted over time so that all people have a chance to collect the benefits they put in the system...the system needs to change now before it is too late and it really does lose money and go bankrupt...keep in mind they are all simply iou's in the trust fund anyway...special t bills that need to be cashed in to pay the benefits as short falls in the taxes begin to happen which add to the debt. at least that is how I understand it.
Post edited by mikepegg44 on
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
you may not like it, I'm pretty sure the answers are "yes" and "yes"....
I think we will see Social Security when we are older because cutting it is such a hot button. Unfortunately, I think our taxes are going to have to raise quite dramatically to support the program, thus in the end, I would be better off without it.
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
you may not like it, I'm pretty sure the answers are "yes" and "yes"....
I just feel our regulations are overly painful in some cases. We should not stoop to the level of China, but we also can't handcuff companies so that they can't make a profit. Companies need to make money for people to have jobs.
They are making money. Did you not read the OP above?
This isn't about companies not making enough money. It's about the heads of companies going off the end of the greed scale. If these people bank $10 million one year, then they want to bank $15-20 million the next year. The fact is, they'll never 'make enough money' simply because there's no limit to their greed.
And if a company can't afford to pay it's employees a reasonable wage, and/or treat it's them decently, then it shouldn't be in business.
this was my point in starting this thread, so eloquently put by byrnzie. there is no limit to their greed. if they can make more money by paying workers overseas $.30 on the dollar they are going to do that.
they are making record profits, yet they have continued to kill american jobs, and that is fucked up.
does anyone other than me, byrnzie, and P.O.D. see that?
we are going to have a corporate oligarchy, and by not trying to stop it now there will be no stopping it later.
these companies should be fined for killing american jobs and creating overseas jobs. wouldn't that be the "patriotic" thing to do??
people are all for fining employers who hire illegal immigrants that "steal american jobs" yet are against fining corporations for shipping jobs over seas. aren't those two scenarios the same damn thing??
The government gives companies tax breaks for exporting their business. Republicans just recently stopped this tax break from ending in the last year. I believe we all talked about it on here! There will NEVER be regulations tied to companies and corporations to make them responsible for the health of the US economy, and because of that, they actually ARE doing the patriotic thing because our fed govt PROMOTES it. The govt knows FULL WELL that they are indirectly killing the state of our country because of the blind, endless limits to corporate greed. THAT'S capitalism for you. It will bring the world to its knees. You watch.
Stop buying foreign made goods! Yes, granted it is nearly impossible but most items can be found made here.
In the meantime people that buy crap from Walmart are keeping companies outsourcing.
Yes, these companies are raking it in, but if nobody buys their product then they will cease to exist. The consumer has the power to make change.
If you are shopping for a washer and dryer walk away if it isn't made in USA, otherwise don't complain.
I think this is the clincher. People have to remember that these jobs going overseas, especially manufacturing jobs, are to make goods for Americans to BUY. That's how the companies make the profit. They say that Americans aren't spending, but let's be real. The U.S. buys more goods than any other country, especially disposable goods. We keep those companies in business by purchasing foreign made goods, throwing these goods away, and going back and buying more. It's an evil cycle that consumers don't really want to think about.
If we stopped consuming and started living with less, imagine what that would do to global business.
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
Let's hope you never become disabled then! I am currently disabled, and I have to rely on a social security check to live. Because I can't work! And thats right, I'm under 45. Thanks for voting to take my only income away.
Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney says businesses can deal with bad news — it's uncertainty that they struggle with.
The GOP front-runner on Wednesday said policies from the past two years under President Barack Obama have contributed to more uncertainty and deepened the effects of the recession.
The GOP front-runner on Wednesday said policies from the past two years under President Barack Obama have contributed to more uncertainty and deepened the effects of the recession.
you may disagree with me, but it was as deep as the ocean baby!!!
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
who are...? those who spend money...consumers...where do you think those folks get there money...? From the consumer...
creating a business takes capital...that capital comes from banks, you are right, without consumers there would be no need for companies to make products...but without the initial risk their would be no businesses paying their employees money to turn around and buy products. This chicken egg argument doesn't work. What it comes down to is how did the a job get created? By risk, or by taxation? which one creates new, taxable wealth?
oh, and that pesky gov't happens to biggest employer in the good ol' US of A...so I would add them to list of "job creators"....
You are right...Government jobs alone do not create wealth or capital...it is all recycled money that will run out when the people who have private money stop trying to grow businesses and simply sit on their hands and say we are done spending until you get your shit straight(kind of like what is happening now) Where do they get the money to pay for those jobs? from the private sector...or they borrow it from banks who have the ability to PRINT MONEY...without new, taxable wealth, the system will simply die on the vine.
i think the government serves functions, I just happen to think they are too big. The federal government should not be the largest employer in the country, in any country.
why Clinton levels...because from what I've seen, that will cure the problem...I have to ask why not go to thos levels?...the bush tax cuts aren't creating jobs...do you think the tax cuts are solely responsible for
without massive changes to many things the system will not be fixed. Adding 4% income tax to the richest of us will not fix the problem. It would POSSIBLY raise revenue, no proof that it will...but raising taxes in a time of economic crisis isn't smart...at least it isn't according to the guy in office who said that very thing just a few short months ago when he extended the tax cuts...
and you act as if the gov't should be a perfect being who should be spanked and put in the corner....this fetishism over "spending" is amusing...the gov't has been spending for quite some time, that's kinda how things work...and gov't spending spurs jobs...
Government spending also spurs bubbles(housing), which create markets which burst and then the jobs are gone...programs supported and subsidized go by the way side and we are left with what? huge unemployment and more borrowing to spend money to "stimulate" the economy further driving inflation which makes all of our money worth less and products cost more. It is a never ending cycle that needs to be broken. I have no problem with the government spending, as I said, I know that the government serves functions, I just want them to spend what they take in...explain to me why that is a problem...inflation and devaluation are a big problem...I saw somewhere and I will get the exact numbers if you don't believe me...that it takes around 227,000 dollars to raise a kid now as compared to 1960 when the same lifestyle would have cost 18,000...that 18,000 then equaled about 189,000 in todays dollars...doesn't that scare you. I don't know what scares me more, the never ending decrease of what a dollar can get you, or the fact that it is about 20% more expensive to have a kid. Inflation and devaluation are very serious. that was 50 years ago...50 years from now is it going to cost a million per kid for the same things? how could that happen? you see I am not against the US government, I am against the decisions that make a soda worth 1.50 today rather than 10 cents 50 years ago...it scares me to think how far it will go...
but that is another topic.
you see, the gov't is us...you and me...we are part of it...and we reap the rewards of safety and security and guidance because we pay for it...we may not agree with everything...but in a nation of 307 million people, it's kinda hard to get everyone to agree on everything...
agree completely. I just want them to spend what they take in and stop worrying about keeping their jobs to the point where they make decisions that are harmful...(term limits anyone)
The debt ceiling is a great example. one side wants a temporary increase to make sure this comes up again before the elections because they believe they can spin it to win in the court of public opinion, and the other side won't accept a short term deal because that means that the issue of deficits and spending will be brought up again before the next presidential election. Both can suck my ass as far as I am concerned. They all got us here.
I know some think that by simply "cutting spending" the debt concerns will go away...hate to say it, but it won't...you're smart enough to know that..."cutting spending" and "raising revenue" will...
I know that simply cutting spending won't erase the debt overnight, but it can over time. Until they can get deficit spending under control, why should I be under the impression they will be any more responsible with the new revenue they want? Also, raising taxes isn't the only way to raise revenue. Getting the economy going will do the same thing.
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
is it cuts or a new way to distribute benefits? Do you consider raising the retirement age a cut? The programs cannot sustain without changes. and those changes should be gradually enacted over time so that all people have a chance to collect the benefits they put in the system...the system needs to change now before it is too late and it really does lose money and go bankrupt...keep in mind they are all simply iou's in the trust fund anyway...special t bills that need to be cashed in to pay the benefits as short falls in the taxes begin to happen which add to the debt. at least that is how I understand it.
we keep going in circles...
I agree, spending should be cut...I also think revenues should be raised...you don't and that's fine...if you think cutting program for the poors and disabled and elderly is the only way to go...so be it...I happen disagree...
and you mention the concept risk...yup, that's real...I guess it's risk to do business in this country were political leaders change from time to time, thus expectations on taxes change too....we'll that's the risk one takes I guess....I would hope they would understand that and factor that into there plans...to assume nothing will ever change with tax rates is kinda stupid if you ask me...
anyhoo, carry on...it looks like you'll get your spending cuts and no new revenues...happy times here we come...
I agree, spending should be cut...I also think revenues should be raised...you don't and that's fine...if you think cutting program for the poors and disabled and elderly is the only way to go...so be it...I happen disagree...
and you mention the concept risk...yup, that's real...I guess it's risk to do business in this country were political leaders change from time to time, thus expectations on taxes change too....we'll that's the risk one takes I guess....I would hope they would understand that and factor that into there plans...to assume nothing will ever change with tax rates is kinda stupid if you ask me...
anyhoo, carry on...it looks like you'll get your spending cuts and no new revenues...happy times here we come...
What I said that raising revenue doesn't necessarily have to be tax increases. That is where we are really going in the biggest circles... getting the economy going can and will raise revenues much more than any tax increase will. And getting the economy going doesn't mean that the government has to spend in something like a stimulus.
and wanting to change social security to make it more economically viable does NOT mean cutting benefits for the disabled, elderly, or anyone else. Means testing and a raise in the retirement age would do a lot. Doesn't anyone think it is funny that the social security trust fund supposedly has trillions but yet if the government doesn't raise the debt limit they will not be able to cut the checks? Doesn't anyone find that strange? How is that possible?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I agree, spending should be cut...I also think revenues should be raised...you don't and that's fine...if you think cutting program for the poors and disabled and elderly is the only way to go...so be it...I happen disagree...
and you mention the concept risk...yup, that's real...I guess it's risk to do business in this country were political leaders change from time to time, thus expectations on taxes change too....we'll that's the risk one takes I guess....I would hope they would understand that and factor that into there plans...to assume nothing will ever change with tax rates is kinda stupid if you ask me...
anyhoo, carry on...it looks like you'll get your spending cuts and no new revenues...happy times here we come...
What I said that raising revenue doesn't necessarily have to be tax increases. That is where we are really going in the biggest circles... getting the economy going can and will raise revenues much more than any tax increase will. And getting the economy going doesn't mean that the government has to spend in something like a stimulus.
and wanting to change social security to make it more economically viable does NOT mean cutting benefits for the disabled, elderly, or anyone else. Means testing and a raise in the retirement age would do a lot. Doesn't anyone think it is funny that the social security trust fund supposedly has trillions but yet if the government doesn't raise the debt limit they will not be able to cut the checks? Doesn't anyone find that strange? How is that possible?
"getting the economy going"...sounds great...let's do that...sound super easy, too...
and raising the retirement ageis cutting benefits...
anyway, you're going to get your wish...cuts without revenues...I'm sure the economy improve, you know, since social programs are cut...balanced budget and golden times ahead for all....
I am interested in what you find funny? It seems like something people should be mad about, but I cannot figure why no one is. I am actually surprised it hasn't been brought up in any national debate and I am confused as to why...I MUST be missing something...please someone, anyone tell me I am completely wrong about it and show me how...
and changing the retirement age is a necessity. as we have live longer and longer it is going to become more and more necessary to raise it. That isn't a cut...that isn't putting less money in the system...it shouldn't be called a cut. when I think cut I think slashed budget....I think less benefits is a cut and i don't think that is going to be the case.
I am not saying it is easy to get the economy going, but I don't think more taxes are going to do it...but I could be wrong...If they were solely going to use the new "revenue" to pay down the debt I would love it, but I have a hard time thinking it will be...
anyway, we could do this dance for days I think...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
how about we do away with the tax exempt status of churches then?
somebody is going to have to buck up to increase revenue.
tax the churches and then let them talk politics in the church.
If you are willing to add the Breast Cancer Research Foundation, ACLU, Ducks Unlimited, and every other charitable organization that enjoys tax-exempt status, I'll have an honest discussion about it.
Comments
so dramatic....and so unlike you...
I guess you're saying since I think corporations should pay taxes, I should no longer be a consumer...interesting take...I guess I'll have nothing ever again, you know, since I think corporations should pay taxes...(((sigh)))
Homemade hemp clothes and rope or maybe just B.O?
on the plus side you would simplicity.
The people that talk about corporations in constant negative tone don't understand or want to understand the realities of it all...Corporations do pay taxes. Let me say that again, corporations do pay taxes. I don't understand the corporate tax code like professionals, but in payroll taxes alone without corporations there wouldn't be social security or medicaid/medicare I can tell you that...but like you say it is much easier to have a conflict theory perspective of faceless entities than challenge your own beliefs on capitalism or the wealthy and realize that those things may not be quite as evil as originally thought.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
deep stuff, mike...
folks assume I hate corporations...I don't hate anything...I'm all about the love...the love,baby...
seriously, I don't understand why we all can't go back to Clinton era tax rates...and I don't understand the steadfast defense of the wealthy and corporations...I'm not saying everyone should dislike or hate them, I just don't get it when a middle class person is willing to support cutting SS or medicare, two things that middle class folks will benefit from in there lifetime, and go on to defend "job creators" (who are not job creators at all) from paying a bit more in taxes...
it befuddles me...
you may disagree with me, but it was as deep as the ocean baby!!!
my not wanting the government to raise taxes is not a defense of corporate american or the wealthy...it is more in regards to incompetence...They, the government, have shown to be irresponsible, abuse their power, and spend themselves into a hole...should it be that easy to take more money? "We(red AND blue) spent irresponsibly...so guess what america...you are going give us more!!!"...if so when does it stop? You say President Clinton era levels, but why there?
if the rich/investors/small business owners aren't job creators who are?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
+1
What I don't understand is why anyone thinks it's a good idea to give more money to the government - i.e. raise taxes on anyone.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
who are...? those who spend money...consumers...where do you think those folks get there money...? From the consumer...
oh, and that pesky gov't happens to biggest employer in the good ol' US of A...so I would add them to list of "job creators"....
why Clinton levels...because from what I've seen, that will cure the problem...I have to ask why not go to thos levels?...the bush tax cuts aren't creating jobs...
and you act as if the gov't should be perfect being who should be spanked and put in the corner....this fetishism over "spending" is amusing...the gov't has been spending for quite some time, that's kinda how things work...and gov't spending spurs jobs...
you see, the gov't is us...you and me...we are part of it...and we reap the rewards of safety and security and guidance because we pay for it...we may not agree with everything...but in a nation of 307 million people, it's kinda hard to get everyone to agree on everything...
I know some think that by simply "cutting spending" the debt concerns will go away...hate to say it, but it won't...you're smart enough to know that..."cutting spending" and "raising revenue" will...
I still don't understand why anyone would support cuts to SS and Medicare/Medicaid...
Not going to comment on Medicare, but what is social security? It is a failing program that will not be in place unless we throw tons more money at it.
Long ago, I decided to live as if I would not get a penny from social security and I think it's time to start grandfathering it out. I say we make anyone 30 and younger uneligible for social security and start phasing it out.
Seriously, does anyone's (who's under 45) life plan really include income from social security anymore? Really?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
than why have i been paying 6.25% for the last X number of years, and than 4.25% this year (dumbest tax break ever)
i have no problem with ditching Socical Security, but i do have a problem with them taking my money and saying that when i retire i get something. can't do that.
They are already doing that.
I've said for years that if they stopped making me pay it today, I'd let them keep everything they've taken and I'd sign a release for any future claim against Social Security.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
creating a business takes capital...that capital comes from banks, you are right, without consumers there would be no need for companies to make products...but without the initial risk their would be no businesses paying their employees money to turn around and buy products. This chicken egg argument doesn't work. What it comes down to is how did the a job get created? By risk, or by taxation? which one creates new, taxable wealth? You are right...Government jobs alone do not create wealth or capital...it is all recycled money that will run out when the people who have private money stop trying to grow businesses and simply sit on their hands and say we are done spending until you get your shit straight(kind of like what is happening now) Where do they get the money to pay for those jobs? from the private sector...or they borrow it from banks who have the ability to PRINT MONEY...without new, taxable wealth, the system will simply die on the vine.
i think the government serves functions, I just happen to think they are too big. The federal government should not be the largest employer in the country, in any country.
without massive changes to many things the system will not be fixed. Adding 4% income tax to the richest of us will not fix the problem. It would POSSIBLY raise revenue, no proof that it will...but raising taxes in a time of economic crisis isn't smart...at least it isn't according to the guy in office who said that very thing just a few short months ago when he extended the tax cuts...
Government spending also spurs bubbles(housing), which create markets which burst and then the jobs are gone...programs supported and subsidized go by the way side and we are left with what? huge unemployment and more borrowing to spend money to "stimulate" the economy further driving inflation which makes all of our money worth less and products cost more. It is a never ending cycle that needs to be broken. I have no problem with the government spending, as I said, I know that the government serves functions, I just want them to spend what they take in...explain to me why that is a problem...inflation and devaluation are a big problem...I saw somewhere and I will get the exact numbers if you don't believe me...that it takes around 227,000 dollars to raise a kid now as compared to 1960 when the same lifestyle would have cost 18,000...that 18,000 then equaled about 189,000 in todays dollars...doesn't that scare you. I don't know what scares me more, the never ending decrease of what a dollar can get you, or the fact that it is about 20% more expensive to have a kid. Inflation and devaluation are very serious. that was 50 years ago...50 years from now is it going to cost a million per kid for the same things? how could that happen? you see I am not against the US government, I am against the decisions that make a soda worth 1.50 today rather than 10 cents 50 years ago...it scares me to think how far it will go...
but that is another topic. agree completely. I just want them to spend what they take in and stop worrying about keeping their jobs to the point where they make decisions that are harmful...(term limits anyone)
The debt ceiling is a great example. one side wants a temporary increase to make sure this comes up again before the elections because they believe they can spin it to win in the court of public opinion, and the other side won't accept a short term deal because that means that the issue of deficits and spending will be brought up again before the next presidential election. Both can suck my ass as far as I am concerned. They all got us here.
I know that simply cutting spending won't erase the debt overnight, but it can over time. Until they can get deficit spending under control, why should I be under the impression they will be any more responsible with the new revenue they want? Also, raising taxes isn't the only way to raise revenue. Getting the economy going will do the same thing.
is it cuts or a new way to distribute benefits? Do you consider raising the retirement age a cut? The programs cannot sustain without changes. and those changes should be gradually enacted over time so that all people have a chance to collect the benefits they put in the system...the system needs to change now before it is too late and it really does lose money and go bankrupt...keep in mind they are all simply iou's in the trust fund anyway...special t bills that need to be cashed in to pay the benefits as short falls in the taxes begin to happen which add to the debt. at least that is how I understand it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
you may not like it, I'm pretty sure the answers are "yes" and "yes"....
Right from those not paying into it.
The government gives companies tax breaks for exporting their business. Republicans just recently stopped this tax break from ending in the last year. I believe we all talked about it on here! There will NEVER be regulations tied to companies and corporations to make them responsible for the health of the US economy, and because of that, they actually ARE doing the patriotic thing because our fed govt PROMOTES it. The govt knows FULL WELL that they are indirectly killing the state of our country because of the blind, endless limits to corporate greed. THAT'S capitalism for you. It will bring the world to its knees. You watch.
I think this is the clincher. People have to remember that these jobs going overseas, especially manufacturing jobs, are to make goods for Americans to BUY. That's how the companies make the profit. They say that Americans aren't spending, but let's be real. The U.S. buys more goods than any other country, especially disposable goods. We keep those companies in business by purchasing foreign made goods, throwing these goods away, and going back and buying more. It's an evil cycle that consumers don't really want to think about.
If we stopped consuming and started living with less, imagine what that would do to global business.
Let's hope you never become disabled then! I am currently disabled, and I have to rely on a social security check to live. Because I can't work! And thats right, I'm under 45. Thanks for voting to take my only income away.
The GOP front-runner on Wednesday said policies from the past two years under President Barack Obama have contributed to more uncertainty and deepened the effects of the recession.
Well isn't that a shocker.
we keep going in circles...
I agree, spending should be cut...I also think revenues should be raised...you don't and that's fine...if you think cutting program for the poors and disabled and elderly is the only way to go...so be it...I happen disagree...
and you mention the concept risk...yup, that's real...I guess it's risk to do business in this country were political leaders change from time to time, thus expectations on taxes change too....we'll that's the risk one takes I guess....I would hope they would understand that and factor that into there plans...to assume nothing will ever change with tax rates is kinda stupid if you ask me...
anyhoo, carry on...it looks like you'll get your spending cuts and no new revenues...happy times here we come...
What I said that raising revenue doesn't necessarily have to be tax increases. That is where we are really going in the biggest circles... getting the economy going can and will raise revenues much more than any tax increase will. And getting the economy going doesn't mean that the government has to spend in something like a stimulus.
and wanting to change social security to make it more economically viable does NOT mean cutting benefits for the disabled, elderly, or anyone else. Means testing and a raise in the retirement age would do a lot. Doesn't anyone think it is funny that the social security trust fund supposedly has trillions but yet if the government doesn't raise the debt limit they will not be able to cut the checks? Doesn't anyone find that strange? How is that possible?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
"getting the economy going"...sounds great...let's do that...sound super easy, too...
and raising the retirement ageis cutting benefits...
anyway, you're going to get your wish...cuts without revenues...I'm sure the economy improve, you know, since social programs are cut...balanced budget and golden times ahead for all....
as for you query about SS...yeah, it's funny...
I am interested in what you find funny? It seems like something people should be mad about, but I cannot figure why no one is. I am actually surprised it hasn't been brought up in any national debate and I am confused as to why...I MUST be missing something...please someone, anyone tell me I am completely wrong about it and show me how...
and changing the retirement age is a necessity. as we have live longer and longer it is going to become more and more necessary to raise it. That isn't a cut...that isn't putting less money in the system...it shouldn't be called a cut. when I think cut I think slashed budget....I think less benefits is a cut and i don't think that is going to be the case.
I am not saying it is easy to get the economy going, but I don't think more taxes are going to do it...but I could be wrong...If they were solely going to use the new "revenue" to pay down the debt I would love it, but I have a hard time thinking it will be...
anyway, we could do this dance for days I think...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
somebody is going to have to buck up to increase revenue.
tax the churches and then let them talk politics in the church.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
We all have to make sacrifices, right?