On Caylee Anthony & social responsibility

__ Posts: 6,651
edited July 2011 in A Moving Train
http://essediemblog.com/2011/07/06/savi ... ones-baby/

Please read this excellent blog post - especially you, Blockhead.

This tragedy with this child is exactly why we need to SUPPORT parents who are having a hard time, rather than just saying they don't deserve our help. This is also why we need to support reproductive rights & access to birth control for everyone. This is the kind of thing that happens when we position children as consequences for people's "irresponsibility".

So how are YOU (we) going to do your part to keep this kind of tragedy from happening again?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    _ wrote:
    http://essediemblog.com/2011/07/06/saving-everyones-baby/

    Please read this excellent blog post - especially you, Blockhead.

    This tragedy with this child is exactly why we need to SUPPORT parents who are having a hard time, rather than just saying they don't deserve our help. This is also why we need to support reproductive rights & access to birth control for everyone. This is the kind of thing that happens when we position children as consequences for people's "irresponsibility".

    So how are YOU (we) going to do your part to keep this kind of tragedy from happening again?
    That was an interesting read. I think what the bigger question that needs to be asked is, "Do you think it is possible to stop all bad things from happening?" and "was this preventable?"

    Tragedies happen daily...it isn't just a young kid being murdered, it is a teen drowning, a police officer being ambushed, a young gang member murdering someone for initiation at random...
    these are tragedies as well. None of these things are 100% preventable. Should people have easier access to birth control...sure they should...we sell it for $5 a pack at my clinic and we see everyone who wants to come in for it...doesn't mean people are going to use it....and it doesn't mean people aren't going to snap and murder their children or someone else...and some would argue this is a reason why abortion, birth control and all of those things need to be accessible...well, she could have gotten an abortion and could have given the child up for adoption at anytime...this woman, guilty or not, was not right in the head...and if no one in her immediate circle is going to recognize it what can be done about it? It doesn't seem like anyone in the family was quite right...
    as much as a tragedy as people think this is, and I am one of those, I think what is being glossed over is the victory for the justice system. In the face of simple circumstantial evidence that left room for reasonable doubt, a jury made the right decision in the face of what many, who previously convicted her in the court of public opinion, thought.

    as to the question you posed? I am going to continue to live my life the same way as before, standing up for those who won't/can't in my circle and in my field of vision in my every day life. As far as thinking that things like this are preventable in the slightest, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that...this isn't simple domestic violence/child abuse...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,162
    _ wrote:
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.

    at what point though is it a personal responsibility and not a social responsibility? how much money can we throw at social issues because some people refuse to take ANY personal responsibility for their actions. it's a shame when a story like you told above happens but how much burden can citizens who can cope with their lives have to be subjected to? it's a fine line for sure. there has to be some line somewhere in the middle between not enough and way too much. at some point the burden of the responsible people to take care of the irresponsible has to reach a level of end. we can't keep throwing money at these issues and problems.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    _ wrote:
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.

    Things like this are going to happen no matter what...can more be done to help people...sure, but how are we going to say that this will prevent these things from happening? Can everyone be nicer and more helpful...I am sure a lot of people could, but I know many people that simply cannot give more of themselves...being in close contact with many people who are homeless has taught me that people can do whatever they want to help...donate clothes, money, time...it doesn't really matter...most of the help is appreciated but it only goes to a few...many don't look for help...that is the problem...people don't look for or actively seek out solutions or help for their problems...especially when they are mental issues...in other words...you can have a million dollars in a bag that says free on it...if no one looks inside the bag will simply sit there waiting...
    That might seem cynical to you, but it is simply what my experiences have taught me throughout my time at the shelters in minneapolis...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    pjhawks wrote:
    _ wrote:
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.

    at what point though is it a personal responsibility and not a social responsibility? how much money can we throw at social issues because some people refuse to take ANY personal responsibility for their actions. it's a shame when a story like you told above happens but how much burden can citizens who can cope with their lives have to be subjected to? it's a fine line for sure. there has to be some line somewhere in the middle between not enough and way too much. at some point the burden of the responsible people to take care of the irresponsible has to reach a level of end. we can't keep throwing money at these issues and problems.

    There is no point at which a society has no responsibility for the welfare of its children. It is always social responsibility AND personal responsibility (assuming there is a living family member to be personally responsible). Social & personal responsibility are not mutually exclusive.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,162
    _ wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    _ wrote:
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.

    at what point though is it a personal responsibility and not a social responsibility? how much money can we throw at social issues because some people refuse to take ANY personal responsibility for their actions. it's a shame when a story like you told above happens but how much burden can citizens who can cope with their lives have to be subjected to? it's a fine line for sure. there has to be some line somewhere in the middle between not enough and way too much. at some point the burden of the responsible people to take care of the irresponsible has to reach a level of end. we can't keep throwing money at these issues and problems.

    There is no point at which a society has no responsibility for the welfare of its children. It is always social responsibility AND personal responsibility (assuming there is a living family member to be personally responsible). Social & personal responsibility are not mutually exclusive.

    i see your point and in general agree but truly hard to say that Casey Anthony had any personal responsibility to her daughter. and when people have children they cannot or won't support then it becomes a mutually exclusive social responsibility. and in many inner cities we've seen what a burden society has to face because of lack of personal respsonsibilty in having children when someone can't support or won't support said child or children. in those cases is it really society failing the child or the parents themselves failing society? it starts with the parents failing society. that is what needs to be changed.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    _ wrote:
    Of course we can't prevent all bad things from happening. You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't even try to do anything to help minimize them though. Really??

    This case reminds me of a case we had here a few years ago where a young woman had a child about the same age & just couldn't cope. She was broke & homeless. She was troubled & emotionally incapable of caring for her child. I don't know whether she wanted & had a hard time getting birth control and/or an abortion, but it's possible. She went to authorities for help on more than one occasion, but they weren't helpful. She ended up killing the kid & burying him at his favorite park. I really feel like society failed this kid & his mother. And, as the blog said, there are thousands more kids out there who need various forms of help, whose parents need help caring for them. And yet we vote to cut programs to help and, in doing so, saying we don't give a fuck about these kids.

    I am not glossing over the victory for the justice system; I've talked about it in other threads. This thread is just about something else.

    Things like this are going to happen no matter what...can more be done to help people...sure, but how are we going to say that this will prevent these things from happening? Can everyone be nicer and more helpful...I am sure a lot of people could, but I know many people that simply cannot give more of themselves...being in close contact with many people who are homeless has taught me that people can do whatever they want to help...donate clothes, money, time...it doesn't really matter...most of the help is appreciated but it only goes to a few...many don't look for help...that is the problem...people don't look for or actively seek out solutions or help for their problems...especially when they are mental issues...in other words...you can have a million dollars in a bag that says free on it...if no one looks inside the bag will simply sit there waiting...
    That might seem cynical to you, but it is simply what my experiences have taught me throughout my time at the shelters in minneapolis...

    My experience has taught me that we need to support systemic change because, as you pointed out above, individual efforts don't go far enough. And, while I don't have as much experience as you do with the homeless population, the patient population with which I work is looking for help - and I'm looking on their behalf - but they either don't know about the resources available or how to access them or, in my experience trying to help connect them with resources, there just aren't enough. I see no reason why we, as a society, can't do better on a systemic level.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    pjhawks wrote:
    _ wrote:
    There is no point at which a society has no responsibility for the welfare of its children. It is always social responsibility AND personal responsibility (assuming there is a living family member to be personally responsible). Social & personal responsibility are not mutually exclusive.

    i see your point and in general agree but truly hard to say that Casey Anthony had any personal responsibility to her daughter. and when people have children they cannot or won't support then it becomes a mutually exclusive social responsibility. and in many inner cities we've seen what a burden society has to face because of lack of personal respsonsibilty in having children when someone can't support or won't support said child or children. in those cases is it really society failing the child or the parents themselves failing society? it starts with the parents failing society. that is what needs to be changed.

    When someone can't support their children it's our social responsibility to help them do their part. And if they just won't do it and we have to step up and take 100% responsibility for the children of our society, then that's what we have to do. If the parents fail society, that doesn't give us an excuse to fail the child. Yes, parents failing society should be changed - and we should support them in this change. But ultimately, we can't change anyone but ourselves, so we need to step up and do what we can do, whether or not we think it's fair.

    If a child were dying right in front of us and it was within our power to save him, we wouldn't refuse & let him die just because we didn't think the parents were doing enough to help. It shouldn't be any different on a less individual scale just because we are able to depersonalize it.
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