Tesla Cars...almost IMO

Godfather.

how much money would you save if you bought one ? and how long would it take to recoop the money you would spend on gas and add to that the cost of charging your new elictric ride.
in my humble opinion this(ele.) green car thing aint there yet I can't see spending that kind of money for something with a battery life that lasts about 4 to 5 years then replacing them cost thousands not to mention the possible added contanimation that the old batterys will add to the ground but all in all they're headed in the right direction.

Godfather.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/21/autos/t ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Sidnum

Godfather. wrote:

how much money would you save if you bought one ? and how long would it take to recoop the money you would spend on gas and add to that the cost of charging your new elictric ride.
in my humble opinion this(ele.) green car thing aint there yet I can't see spending that kind of money for something with a battery life that lasts about 4 to 5 years then replacing them cost thousands not to mention the possible added contanimation that the old batterys will add to the ground but all in all they're headed in the right direction.

Godfather.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/21/autos/t ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Although you might be saving money on gas, etc, electric cars are not the way to go if you're talking about being green. The process in order to make the batteries and then ultimately disposing of them anyway is almost worse than just driving a normal car.

As far as it being a pretty cool car, I would agree. But $60,000 for a base and $109,000 for the "long running" model? Gimme a f^cking break... You would never recoup that money. If I had $60k to play with, I'd invest in a diesel car, convert it to bio-diesel, and have a setup for recycling used oil from McDonalds or whatever. Comes out to somewhere around 80 cents/gallon. Even with all the investment, it would even come close to $60k.

Anyway, with all that said, the right direction is the Hydrogen Fuel Cell, IMO.

Godfather.

Agreed but the Hydrogen Fuel Cell will be blocked by the bigger auto makers who have the money to do it...I would think.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Godfather. wrote:

Agreed but the Hydrogen Fuel Cell will be blocked by the bigger auto makers who have the money to do it...I would think.

Godfather.

ha ha what the heck was I thinking check this out.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fuelcell.shtml

Godfather.

brianlux

I have to admit to a certain amount of hypocracy on the issue of cars. I love my car and I love to drive but it is something I'm trying to do less of by planning my outings, combining trips, shopping as close to home, ride sharing- that sort of thing. From what I've read (which is a lot) there really is no such thing as a "green" car. They're all environmentally unsound in one way or another. There are no green fuels. All automobiles require large amounts of energy and resources to build. Hybrids incorporate rare earths in their manufacture- from more earth-destructive mining. Besides all that- the fact is we have reached peak oil and there are no feasable means besides oil to keep the nearly one billion automobiles on the world's roads running at their current rate.

Their are solutions and we need to implement them quickly:

Drive fewer times, less miles by combing trips, ride sharing etc.

Work closer to home.

Create more walkable communities.

Rebuild the US rail system (It is embarrassing how far behind much of the world the US is on this point.)

Make public transit afforable, safe and appealing.

Ramp up local economy. (Stop shipping foods all over the planet. Australian bottled water sent to California? Rediculous!)

polaris_x

electric is definitely the way to go ... building the cars using post-consumer recycled materials would make it as green as possible ... which is completely possible ... check out a company like terra-cycle ...

as far as recouping your money ... that should not be the basis for buying an electric car ... how come no one ever factors in the pollution you aren't pumping into the air into the equation?

we are way closer to an electric future than hydrogen ... once they figure out the supercapacitors - they will have fast charging and long lasting batteries ...

Jason P

People that can afford electric cars are not the same people that are being pinched in the wallet each time they fill up. Until they can make an electric car for under $20k that performs reliably, can charge in under 15 minutes, has a range over 400 miles, and fuel stations offer charge stations .... well, I don't see the concept ever taking off.

Hybrids have a chance, but they too need to come down in price.

Godfather.

polaris_x wrote:

electric is definitely the way to go ... building the cars using post-consumer recycled materials would make it as green as possible ... which is completely possible ... check out a company like terra-cycle ...

as far as recouping your money ... that should not be the basis for buying an electric car ... how come no one ever factors in the pollution you aren't pumping into the air into the equation?

we are way closer to an electric future than hydrogen ... once they figure out the supercapacitors - they will have fast charging and long lasting batteries ...

everything is about money,a car is an investment especially when you can buy a gas burner for half the price
car makers make money all their suppliers make money state and federal governments make money the only ones losing are the consumers then there is the wast factor with these cars...the batterys are short lived and create toxic waste

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

People that can afford electric cars are not the same people that are being pinched in the wallet each time they fill up. Until they can make an electric car for under $20k that performs reliably, can charge in under 15 minutes, has a range over 400 miles, and fuel stations offer charge stations .... well, I don't see the concept ever taking off.

Hybrids have a chance, but they too need to come down in price.

its all in the charging ... if we spent as much money on the R & D on the supercapacitors as we did on funding pollution ...

the charge stations are easy ... frig - you just need an electrical plug ... in edmonton, there are parking lots with plugs for block heaters ... a relatively easy infrastructure change ...

polaris_x

Godfather. wrote:

everything is about money,a car is an investment especially when you can buy a gas burner for half the price car makers make money all their suppliers make money state and federal governments make money the only ones losing are the consumers then there is the wast factor with these cars...the batterys are short lived and create toxic waste

then why the heck do people buy suv's that burn gas like there is no tomorrow and have high repair rates, low resell value and basically need to be replaced after 150,000 miles?

the battery issue is definitely a concern but when you factor in the inefficiency and poor reliability of a combustible engine ... it's not even close ...

we should all be driving electric cars now if not for the same reasons that causes most of the problems ... the corporatization of gov't ...

Godfather.

polaris_x wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

everything is about money,a car is an investment especially when you can buy a gas burner for half the price car makers make money all their suppliers make money state and federal governments make money the only ones losing are the consumers then there is the wast factor with these cars...the batterys are short lived and create toxic waste

then why the heck do people buy suv's that burn gas like there is no tomorrow and have high repair rates, low resell value and basically need to be replaced after 150,000 miles?

the battery issue is definitely a concern but when you factor in the inefficiency and poor reliability of a combustible engine ... it's not even close ...

we should all be driving electric cars now if not for the same reasons that causes most of the problems ... the corporatization of gov't ...

SUV...other than statis or big family travel I don't know bro.
btw a diesel will turn 300,000 to 500,000+ miles
a battery not even close.
but tha all ele. car once they work out the glitches....I'm in.

Godfather.

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

its all in the charging ... if we spent as much money on the R & D on the supercapacitors as we did on funding pollution ...

the charge stations are easy ... frig - you just need an electrical plug ... in edmonton, there are parking lots with plugs for block heaters ... a relatively easy infrastructure change ...

Hopefully I will see it before I'm in my later stages of life. That's a lot of infrastructure though. Edmonton has engine block heater stations out of necessity ... something that electrical cars are not. I still think hybrids have a chance, but unless you live in San Francisco I doubt electric car recharging outside your homes as an option.

Polaris, unfortunately I think electric cars will only be available to the one demographic you dislike the most ... super rich white people.

Jeanwah

The electrics are good in theory, but because they need to be charged, they still rely on fossil fuels, sadly. It's a start, but I believe that green cars will improve and improve, and some day there will be a car that doesn't rely on the fossil fuels at all. Hybrids, biodiesel and electrics are a start at least.

Otherwise, we really need to start driving smaller cars in general. There's no need for giant SUVs taking up the roadways when you can get into a smaller car and save gas. Bigger is definitely not better.

polaris_x

electric cars don't need to be expensive ... if everything was on the same playing field - they would in fact be cheaper than every other car ...

we do not need fossil fuels to power electric cars ... right now renewables offer the cheapest form of new power generation out there ... same price as coal and 1/10th the cost of nuclear ... big difference is once you build renewables (solar, wind) - it's free energy ... we don't need to blow up mountain tops to get the fuel ...

and as for diesel ... sure, you get better mileage but diesel fuel contains way more pollutants than standard unleaded gasoline and the refining process is also worse than regular gas ...

folks - if we didn't live in a corporatized world where the only goal of corporations was to make as much money as possible, we'd all be driving electric now ...

brianlux

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

Wobbie

brianlux wrote:

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

I do. :thumbup:

we have some dumb bitch legislator here in Utah who thinks hybrid owners should pay an extra tax because they don't pay their "fair share" of the gas tax but still use our roads :roll: . I'm pretty sure this is the worst state legislature in all of america.

Who Princess

imalive wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

I do. :thumbup:

we have some dumb bitch legislator here in Utah who thinks hybrid owners should pay an extra tax because they don't pay their "fair share" of the gas tax but still use our roads :roll: . I'm pretty sure this is the worst state legislature in all of america.

Trust me, there is NO state legislature that comes even close to the ineptitude of Texas'.

And I also agree with brianlux. We have such limited public transportation here in North Texas and we are considered something like the 2nd worse area in the country for urban sprawl.

brianlux

whoprincess wrote:

imalive wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

I do. :thumbup:

we have some dumb bitch legislator here in Utah who thinks hybrid owners should pay an extra tax because they don't pay their "fair share" of the gas tax but still use our roads :roll: . I'm pretty sure this is the worst state legislature in all of america.

Trust me, there is NO state legislature that comes even close to the ineptitude of Texas'.

And I also agree with brianlux. We have such limited public transportation here in North Texas and we are considered something like the 2nd worse area in the country for urban sprawl.

Many of California's big cities have excellent public transporation but even still, some areas are quite lacking. The county I live in, El Dorado, has made some improvements, but it reamins a major issue for folks without personal means of transportation.

I wish I could cite the exact article, but I read an article that analyses the costs of building high speed railroads as oposed to repairing existing rail systems. The article talked about how top-notch America's rail systems were before the oil interests made it difficult for railroads to compete. The author showed how we could provide a much wider service area across the states by rebuilding conventional rail systems (which would provide greater overall service than high-speed rail) and that done properly, these could provide fast, efficient, comfortable and enjoyable means of moving about.

I'm a member of Rail Pac and NARP (National Association of Railroad Passenger) and both have published articles that show that railroad travel is more fuel efficient per passenger/cargo than auto, air, trucking or bus. Re-building our rail system makes good sense!

81

brianlux wrote:

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

i'm on pace to do 10K miles this year, gf should do 4k miles.

hate to tell you, but out side of major meto area's, public transit blows. in my case, it costs more and takes a lot longer to take a bus to work, vs. driving.

plus when you get .govs invlovled, teh efficiencey of they system goes down. but left to their own device, you get the airlines. it's lose lose

polaris_x

The fact there isn't high speed electric trains like in Europe in the northeast corridor speaks to the power of the corporations.

brianlux wrote:

Does no one agree about my suggestion to drive less, improve public transit, revitalize our rail system support local economy, etc? :eh:

Jeanwah

polaris_x wrote:

we do not need fossil fuels to power electric cars ... right now renewables offer the cheapest form of new power generation out there ... same price as coal and 1/10th the cost of nuclear ... big difference is once you build renewables (solar, wind) - it's free energy ... we don't need to blow up mountain tops to get the fuel ...

But they need to be plugged in and that energy supplied is most likely, right now, a fossil fuel. Until we have charging stations that are powered by renewable energy, the electrics do use the fossil fuels (unless you live in a solar or wind powered home...)

I'm with you though, it's the right direction.