Cobain Rumors: "biggest band in the world"
Cool Face Ryan
Posts: 1,254
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/gen ... cades.html
part of the story:
Dave Grohl confirmed a statement made by Nirvana’s former lawyer Alan Mintz, who once quoted the frontman as saying "Get me off this label—I want to sell millions of records." Grohl recalled a negotiation with a major record label in New York, where Cobain said "We want to be the biggest band in the world."
part of the story:
Dave Grohl confirmed a statement made by Nirvana’s former lawyer Alan Mintz, who once quoted the frontman as saying "Get me off this label—I want to sell millions of records." Grohl recalled a negotiation with a major record label in New York, where Cobain said "We want to be the biggest band in the world."
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Tres Mts. Gramercy Theatre 3/26/11
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In a separate interview with The Fix, Courtney Love described how she is sick to death of people calling her a "crazy drug freak."
"I've been maligned as this drug freak for years, and I'm getting tired of it," she said. "That's not the way I live anymore. Obviously I've had a lot of issues in the past, but that was years ago … I don't do smack. I don't do crack anymore. I've never taken Special K or Ecstasy. I've been tempted, but every time I've wanted to try Ecstasy, I was talked out of it. I did do MDMA, however, a very long time ago."
Yeah, Courtney, people think you're a crazy drug freak because you admit "I've never taken Special K or Ecstasy. I've been tempted . . . " Regular, non-drug users are never tempted to use Special K or Ecstasy. Ever. There's no way to remove that stigma because the regular 9-5ers cannot relate to being "tempted" by relatively hard drugs. This doesn't include weed, since basically nobody thinks stoners are Courtney Love-level crazy drug freaks.
By way of comparison - a rapist who says he's "tempted" to rape again is still a rapist. Normal folks never rape anybody. Same with bank robbers, murderers, child molesters. Some temptations are limited to a very specific portion of the population.
This isn't calling out drug users as criminals, by the way. Drug users, do your thing... just don't be surprised when the bank tellers, school teachers, and insurance salesmen of the world (you know, the ones who have to pass drug tests to get their jobs) are shocked to hear that you were "tempted". It's different cultures.
It was all an image to me. Part of the reason I never got into Nirvana too much.
Tres Mts. Gramercy Theatre 3/26/11
*formerly manutd3581
nirvana never pretended to be fugazi.
In regards to Courtney, she signed 2 albums for me, so I really appreciate that. Hole (to me, is a good band).
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it's pretty obvious that he wanted to be a big band, but as always, those who get famous, hate it when fame finds them.
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Nicely said Dewie. :thumbup:
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<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
kurt grew up a fan of punk rock. and thats a community and scene that favors independent and socially aware music and art. and i think kurt thought that having millions of fans, especially millions of fans who were jocks, and racists and homophobes, or the people who beat him up as a kid and were intolerant when he was a kid, was a sad thing.
look at pearl jam. they went from releasing no code, which was put out to intentionally lose them millions of fans, and then look at the pearl jam of backspacer era. the band made it a focal point of the press for the album to suggest they wanted to sell a ton of records this time out. thats contradictory as well...
i also think as an artist the goal of art is to reach and touch as many people as you possibly can.
i disagree. neither cornell or weiland put out albums with the kind of significance that nevermind has acheived. and even when he was alive Nevermind was considered a masterpiece and classic. Hell, Teen Spirit alone, if he had only done that song, that was the only nirvana song ever, he;d be remembered the way he is, which is one of the most important, if not the MOST important 90's musician. neither cornell nor weiland were ever called the voice of their generation.
i dont think you can read his lyrics, or read interviews with him, or read the sucide note, and come out with the conclusion he was some greedy, all i care about is money and fame-type person. he wasnt. and its a dishonor to remember him that way.
this board has always been like that. always. theres been some serious cobain hatred/jealousy for years. to me, i think its indicative of the jealousy of people. look, we all love Pearl Jam. But lets face it. When the history books are written and its all said and done, Cobain, not vedder, not staley, not cornell, will be remembered as a legend and the most important musician of his time. Thats not to say, obviously, that other musicians and bands werent important. they were. but i think deep down, we all know, the current view of nirvana, as pioneers and legends and kurt as the same, will not go away. when people talk about the grunge era now, and in the future, in 10, 20, 30 years, i think its pretty obvious, it will be very cobain heavy, very kurt and nirvana oriented. and whats funny, people on this board seem to take this personally. like the media not showing ed, or cornell, or staley, love for their work during the 90's is somehow a personal slight to them. It isnt. I think all those people had an impact on the music of the times, i just think
And the whole notion that dying young elevated kurt to mythical status is absurd, ive long heard that argument and its naive and silly. to believe it, you have to say, jimi, jim morrison, janis, brian jones, james dean, kurt etc.. all only are revered and loved because they died young. thats stupid. all were supremely talented and gifted and were masters
people on this board have never viewed nirvana and kurt accurately. and thats said.
As for racists, homophobes and people that kicked their ass ....What artist wants them as fans?
Maybe he got more famous than he really wanted, but I think you'd have to be pretty gullible to think it was really anything more than trying to live up to an image.
Yeah, there's alot of bias towards PJ on here, but isn't that to be expected. I don't think any of it really comes from jealousy. I mean, look at PJ's body of work compared to Nirvana's.
I agree there's no bigger face of the 90's than Cobain, but as bands go PJ's peak was higher and lasted longer than Nirvana's. Prolly has more to do with Cobain's hypocrisy towards PJ than anything.
Dying does elevate a legend. It's silly to say otherwise. How many times do you hear people talk about Hendrix, Cobain, or whoever and wonder what he woulda done next?
in fairness, the entire nirvana catalog was produced before cobain was as old as, say, eddie vedder was when vs. was recorded. so the real comparison is between the entire nirvana catalog and ten and a handful of miscellaneous songs. i think i know what i prefer given that choice.
one neednt go far to come up with examples of musicians who have struggled with being famous and having money as a result of it. Ed is an obvious example. its pretty evident the grunge scene and the resulting fame and attention, caused a great deal of pain and soul searching for ed. and we;ve heard for years, ed suggest that kurts death was symbolic for ed personally because he (ed) felt he was headed down that same road. I see no difference between the philosophies of art and integrity between kurt and ed. they were very similar.
ive always been an either or person. either you believe ed and kurt both are liars, which is absurd, or both struggled with fame because it was uncomfortable and something that caused deep pain.
PJ hated the publicity and fame machine early on, and hated the commercialization of rock and their music, but they still could be seen playing the MTV music awards and doing interviews with RS and Spin. Isnt that contradictary? If ed didnt want the pressure why was he appearing on spin in 1994? And thats not a jab a ed. i respect him and his approach to the issue of celebrity
I find it pretty absurd to think that anyone would question kurts authenticity on the issue. He felt guilty, he felt intense pressure. He was in the biggest band in the world, and was the figurehead of a cultural movement and had millions of teens hanging on every word he said. Im his age when he died. and ive struggled for years to define myself and my purpose in life. I cant imagine, on top of that struggle, to have that big of a spotlight and that much pressure on oneself. And then of course he was a drug user and i think he felt guilty about that as well.
I do think he was thinking of quitting music, or of going off in some wierd eperimental direction ala radiohead. they were pulling out of lollapalooza before his death, and i think he was tired of being this figure to people.
He sadly didnt know how to deal with that, or to deal with it in a constructive and positive way. But as i said, he was only 27. Im 27 and my life is a wreck. Why do we expect rock stars and artists to have it all together? and to understand everything? i think they are working through the same issues we all do, except publicly.
I think you arent looking at the issue correctly if you come away from the kurt cobain story, and come away from it thinking he was insincere, or a liar or that he secretly craved fame. he was conflicted. and we all are. Im a radical commie anarchist, but i love blockbuster summer movies just like everyone else.
In fairness?? I think that would be comparing their entire catalog and their live shows.
The fact of the matter is PJ pulled back from the spotlight and Cobain never did. I think PJ was trying to be as successful as they could be while retaining a certain comfort level after it got away from them. I'm not saying he loved being a celebrity or anything like that, but to me it looks like he wanted to be in the most successful band in the world and went about it the best way he knew how.
I'm gonna go ahead and look at the facts. You can believe what you want.
he was rejecting an image others had of him, as some posterchild and spokesman for gen x, and had an internal and personal image that he felt he wanted to live up to. I think his own image of himself, was he was a politically aware, sensitive, artist type, who grew up attracted to punk rock because it had something to say, not necessarily because of how it sounded.
kurt was the "typical" artist, or the classical one. sensitive, piesces, identified with the female side of nature, saw art as an escape and as a way to say something important. this was a musician who communicated feelings so adeptly. Spending the last 20 seconds of Teen Spirit screaming "A denial" is so shocking for its honesty. i love art like that. you dont need to understand the term, or what was being denied or who was being denied, it was clear this was something kurt truely felt in his whole being.
and when it became clear, when you have that many fans, i think their are expectations that are extremely tough on an artist and on people in general. i think he struggled with how to deal with that label of spokesman of a generation. to know that what you sing in a 3 minute song could save someones life etc... and to deal with all the negatives of the press and interviews and expectations.
ive long suggested the music industry, should stop trying to fine illegal downloaders and should require all record contracts to have a part that says the record company will pay for rehab or treatment or counseling or whatever for their artists.
as much as we all wish kurt was here with us today, well maybe people on this board dont wish he was here. i do. and i never was one of those people who blamed him or hated him for his death. i think that was the overarching theme of the whole issue for kurt, and it followed him in death. people expected things of him, and to expect someone who is 27 to have the answers and to be able to sort everything out, thats asking alot.
well i deal in the truth. both bands expressed dislike of fame and press, and both were on magazines and in interviews and on tv and did videos. both bands did. both kurt and ed did. i see no difference. You read that article in spin in 1994 with ed, called lets get lost or something like that? he;s clearly at his breaking point. he talks about kids writing him and asking for help with their own situations, asking ed to help them deal with their own issues. Yet he;s on the cover and being interviewed and being sold on the cover of a magazine which at that time was widely read by millions of teens and adults. How is that not the same thing? How about the fact that the album that was created to lose them fans, was also released and backed and promoted by a major label?
Ive never understood the whole cobain bashing. Plus, to suggest they wanted to be the biggest band in the world is to suggest you stopped paying attention to the band from 1993 until the end. In Utero aint some poppy radio friendly album, its abrasive and hard and raw. Even the choice of Albini to produce is evidence of this.
I think you are dilluded if you think kurt was motivated to be some sort of rock star. It just doesnt play out with the facts. He's comflicted, absolutely constradictory? yep, he was. but i'm not gonna swallow that lie that he was out to be some rich rock star and that this was somehow the reason he created songs like teen spirit, or something in the way. stuff like that doesnt get created by someone who is ego and vain and money driven. or if it does its disposible and forgotten about
i think one has to seperate the notion of biggest band in the world, from people who lie awake at night and want to get rich and famous and want to be tabloid fodder, and those who want their art to reach as many people as possible.
i do think its laughable that pj is viewed as courting fame then pushing it away, and then courting it again with a sense of their own morals and ethics, but kurt is viewed as wanting to be in the biggest band in the world and is obsessed with getting his videos played. i dont really think its that simple...
i was just suggesting that if pearl jam had ended when its members were the age cobain was when he died, they would not have left the same kind of legacy that nirvana has.
is pearl jam "better" than hendrix because he produced relatively few albums? hell, are the rolling stones better than the beatles because their career has been like five times as long?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklUAoZ6KxY
is pearl jam "better" than hendrix because he produced relatively few albums? hell, are the rolling stones better than the beatles because their career has been like five times as long?[/quote]
I don't think in terms of being a band longer but something has to be said about a band that stays together for long period of times. Every artist career's has ups and downs. Nirvana had a very short career and Kurt killed himself at their peck. Nirvana never had that slump that every band has and that is a reason i believe why Nirvana are looked upon as greats. We don't know what Nirvana would have been if Kurt didn't die.
Bob dylan in my opinion is the greatest artist of all time and the reason is that he produced great music for decades. that is the what a makes a legend
good points. especially about dylan - totally the most important figure in popular american music over the past 50 or 60 years.
in 1966 dylan crashed his motorcycle in a near death accident. It has long been wondered whether this was indeed a crash, and was the result of him being under so much stress at the time, or if dylan intentionally crashed knowing that he could be left alone, and he disappeared for awhile after that. John Wesley Harding is a very different album than Blonde on Blonde or anything before it. Or if he in fact never got in a crash at all and wasnt riding at all, and just made the story up.
the point being, had dylan died in 1966, having "only" released, Freewheelin, Times, Another Side, Bringing it all Back, Highway 61, Blonde on Blonde...he'd be viewed as one of the most important people of the 60's, just as he is today.
Its boggling to me someone would suggest morrison, joplin, hendrix, james dean, or cobain, dying young was the reason they are beloved. You listen to any of those musicians at all? you see dean act at all?
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Tres Mts. Gramercy Theatre 3/26/11
*formerly manutd3581