Why ?

Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
edited May 2011 in A Moving Train
does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
and on other country's ?

Godfather.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Cool Face RyanCool Face Ryan Posts: 1,254
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html
    yep that pretty much does it. US helping the state of Israel, aka the jews, and then holding air bases in Saudi Arabia really pissed bin Laden off apparently. Oh, and all the Gillete commercials
    MSG II 5/21/10
    Tres Mts. Gramercy Theatre 3/26/11
    *formerly manutd3581
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    manutd3581 wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html
    yep that pretty much does it. US helping the state of Israel, aka the jews, and then holding air bases in Saudi Arabia really pissed bin Laden off apparently. Oh, and all the Gillete commercials


    I share his disdain...how many more fucking blades can they put on those things???!?!?!
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • wolfamongwolveswolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Posted this on one of the (too many) other OBL threads. It's an excellent 3-part BBC documentary from 2004 called "The Power of Nightmares" that examines the motivations of both radical Islamism and neoconservativism. There's a lot of answers to your question in there, Godfather. It's long, but it's well worth taking the time and the effort to watch.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0&feature=fvst
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6LhnW4Oa8&NR=1
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvzR8w1 ... re=related
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
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  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Posted this on one of the (too many) other OBL threads. It's an excellent 3-part BBC documentary from 2004 called "The Power of Nightmares" that examines the motivations of both radical Islamism and neoconservativism. There's a lot of answers to your question in there, Godfather. It's long, but it's well worth taking the time and the effort to watch.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0&feature=fvst
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6LhnW4Oa8&NR=1
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvzR8w1 ... re=related

    thanks Bro I'll check it out this weekend, no youtube at work.


    Godfather.
  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    manutd3581 wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html
    yep that pretty much does it. US helping the state of Israel, aka the jews, and then holding air bases in Saudi Arabia really pissed bin Laden off apparently. Oh, and all the Gillete commercials
    Jewish people can never catch a break. I've always wondered why some people hate Jewish people. What have they done that causes this hate?
    Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
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  • Cool Face RyanCool Face Ryan Posts: 1,254
    Newch91 wrote:
    Jewish people can never catch a break. I've always wondered why some people hate Jewish people. What have they done that causes this hate?
    the Old Testament. scared the shit outta everyone. just ask lewis black
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g
    MSG II 5/21/10
    Tres Mts. Gramercy Theatre 3/26/11
    *formerly manutd3581
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Newch91 wrote:
    manutd3581 wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    yep that pretty much does it. US helping the state of Israel, aka the jews, and then holding air bases in Saudi Arabia really pissed bin Laden off apparently. Oh, and all the Gillete commercials
    Jewish people can never catch a break. I've always wondered why some people hate Jewish people. What have they done that causes this hate?

    I am certainly not a scholar on this at all..but if you are interested in examples of the type of thing that has been done to try and scare people of the jewish people, do a quick google search on the protocols of the elders of zion... fascinating stuff
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html

    I just skimmed thu it ( very long) but it seems he declared war on non muslims.

    Godfather.
  • StillHereStillHere Posts: 7,795
    (2) The inability of the regime to protect the country, and allowing the enemy of the Ummah - the American crusader forces- to occupy the land for the longest of years. The crusader forces became the main cause of our disastrous condition, particularly in the economical aspect of it due to the unjustified heavy spending on these forces. As a result of the policy imposed on the country, especially in the field of oil industry where production is restricted or expanded and prices are fixed to suit the American economy ignoring the economy of the country. Expensive deals were imposed on the country to purchase arms. People asking what is the justification for the very existence of the regime then?

    hmmmfff...we didn't know THAT did we? :roll:
    peace,
    jo

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  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    Godfather. wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html

    I just skimmed thu it ( very long) but it seems he declared war on non muslims.

    Godfather.
    I started reading it and that's what it seems like also. It's like he's saying if we're not Muslim and don't believe in Allah, we're an enemy.
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  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    I agree with "wolf", The Power of Nightmares is a great documentary. Godfather, yours is a very difficult question to answer, especially by anyone on this board--by that, I mean, an individual would have to be in the inner circle of knowledge or extensively well-read on the subject to offer any "truths." However, since there are always some good, intelligent discussions on this board--before they delve into kindergarten, sandbox, insult spewing "silliness"--we can maybe combine much of our opinions to come to some kind of starting point for an explanation. Here are a few of my ideas:

    1. bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are lunatics. They are fanatics, who misinterpret a sacred Muslim text.
    2. 1953: The American led coup that installed the Shah of Iran. This is seen as the beginning of the current model of U.S. Foreign Policy in the Middle East. A foreign policy that many say is flawed. (Gots to have our oil!!)
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/
    http://large.stanford.edu/publications/ ... line/coup/
    3. Our continued intervention into Middle Eastern affairs, including our support of Israel. Israel has not helped this fact, due to their questionable actions that have gone on for decades. This is a discussion in itself.
    4. The Saudi Gov't/Monarchy allowing troops to stay in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War of 1991. I remember watching a documentary/news special before 2001, and they interviewed a Saudi citizen about our presence in his country. he simply said, "we do not want you here. Leave." Many shared his sentiment.
    5. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/new/ ... rine_at_30
    (p.s. Andrew Bacevich is a must read. Shares many ideas with Ron Paul concerning U.S. Foreign Policy)
    6. The Reagan Corollary: "Carter's successor, President Ronald Reagan, extended the policy in October 1981 with what is sometimes called the "Reagan Corollary to the Carter Doctrine", which proclaimed that the United States would intervene to protect Saudi Arabia, whose security was threatened after the outbreak of the Iran–Iraq War. Thus, while the Carter Doctrine warned away outside forces from the region, the Reagan Corollary pledged to secure internal stability. According to diplomat Howard Teicher, "with the enunciation of the Reagan Corollary, the policy ground work was laid for Operation Desert Storm."[10] Some analysts have argued that the implementation of the Carter Doctrine and the Reagan Corollary also played a role in the outbreak of the 2003 Iraq War."

    That's all I have for now.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Godfather. wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1996.html

    I just skimmed thu it ( very long) but it seems he declared war on non muslims.

    Godfather.


    "the horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana, in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. Massacres in Tajakestan, Burma, Cashmere, Assam, Philippine, Fatani, Ogadin, Somalia, Erithria, Chechnia and in Bosnia-Herzegovina took place, massacres that send shivers in the body and shake the conscience. All of this and the world watch and hear, and not only didn't respond to these atrocities, but also with a clear conspiracy between the USA and its' allies and under the cover of the iniquitous United Nations, the dispossessed people were even prevented from obtaining arms to defend themselves."
    "More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void."
    just a couple quotes.


    what you might do is control F and type USA in the search box...it comes up about 12-13 times, and just read quickly about what they are reffering to the USA for...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,596
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    read the book "The Looming Tower" - Bin Laden and the hardcore funademantalist muslims needed a new enemy after Afghanistan defeated the Russians and since the US was the only superpower left it gave them an easy target to hate and to continue their campaign of power.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Newch91 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    I just skimmed thu it ( very long) but it seems he declared war on non muslims.

    Godfather.
    I started reading it and that's what it seems like also. It's like he's saying if we're not Muslim and don't believe in Allah, we're an enemy.


    I think that is simplifying it a little bit...like saying they hate our freedom...it isn't necessarily that you are non-muslim...it is the perceived(wrongly or rightly isnt the question) mistreatment of muslims and islam by western forces over history with pretty specific examples...it might be worth reading the whole thing so that you truly understand the issues at the forefront of this "war"
    I think if both sides tried to understand the motivations of the other we may not be in the mess we are in.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Newch91 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    I just skimmed thu it ( very long) but it seems he declared war on non muslims.

    Godfather.
    I started reading it and that's what it seems like also. It's like he's saying if we're not Muslim and don't believe in Allah, we're an enemy.


    I think that is simplifying it a little bit...like saying they hate our freedom...it isn't necessarily that you are non-muslim...it is the perceived(wrongly or rightly isnt the question) mistreatment of muslims and islam by western forces over history with pretty specific examples...it might be worth reading the whole thing so that you truly understand the issues at the forefront of this "war"
    I think if both sides tried to understand the motivations of the other we may not be in the mess we are in.
    I'm reading it now. Didn't we help them in the late 80s when the Soviet Union was in a war with Afghanistan?
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    "Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    StillHere wrote:
    (2) The inability of the regime to protect the country, and allowing the enemy of the Ummah - the American crusader forces- to occupy the land for the longest of years. The crusader forces became the main cause of our disastrous condition, particularly in the economical aspect of it due to the unjustified heavy spending on these forces. As a result of the policy imposed on the country, especially in the field of oil industry where production is restricted or expanded and prices are fixed to suit the American economy ignoring the economy of the country. Expensive deals were imposed on the country to purchase arms. People asking what is the justification for the very existence of the regime then?

    hmmmfff...we didn't know THAT did we? :roll:


    I think he should have maybe looked at the perceived unfair take the royals and elites of these oil producing nations rather than what he thought our influence was on price fixing...there is a reason the royals have billions of dollars and the people get none of it and I don't think that has much to do with the US, I could be wrong.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    found this on CNN.

    (CNN) – Osama bin Laden wore the mantle of a religious leader. He looked the part and talked a good game, but his theology was a radical departure from traditional orthodox Islam.

    The pitch to join al Qaeda did not start with an invitation to put on a suicide vest but, like other religious splinter groups and cults, took advantage of disenfranchisement and poverty.

    Bin Laden had no official religious training but developed his own theology of Islam.

    "We don't know that (bin Laden) was ever exposed to orthodox Islamic teachings," said Ebrahim Moosa, a professor of religion and Islamic studies at Duke University.

    The writing of ideologues in the Muslim Brotherhood influenced bin Laden heavily, Moosa said.

    "He takes scriptural imperatives at their face value and believes this is the only instruction and command God has given him - unmediated by history, unmediated by understanding, unmediated by human experience. Now that's a difference between Muslim orthodoxy and what I would call uber- or hyperscripturalists," Moosa said.

    The vast majority of Islamic scholars and imams say the teaching of the Prophet Mohammed happened in historical context that needs to be understood when reading and interpreting the Quran.

    "If the likes of bin Laden, if they had spent one day or maybe one month possibly, in a madrassa (Muslim religious school) and understood how the canonical tradition is interpreted, they would not go onto this kind of destructive path they go on," Moosa said.

    In the entire leadership structure of al Qaeda, "no one has had any sort of formal religious training from any seminary," said Aftab Malik, a global expert on Muslim affairs at the United Nations Alliance of Civilization. He is researching a Ph.D. on al Qaeda.

    "What you had was an engineer and a doctor leading a global jihad against the whole world," Malik said. "That would never happen in normative Islam. It's just such an aberration."

    John Esposito, a professor of religion and international affairs at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, said bin Laden "appropriates Islam ... to legitimate and mobilize people."

    "If you look at bin Laden's early statements and arguments, his interview with Peter Bergen on CNN ... lots of people would see it as something that would go down very well not just with many Muslims but among many analysts when he talks about longstanding political grievances," Esposito said.

    "What bin Laden ends up doing is saying anyone who disagrees with him, any Muslim, is in fact an apostate," he said. That includes Muslims who would not join his fight, he said. "It's a distortion of the traditional teaching, and it just extends the parameters and the consequences in order to legitimate how when you're fighting on the ground you're fighting against your own people."

    Malik said, "The key issue is of apostasy," referring to when a person leaves a faith. "One of the things Osama bin Laden deviates from is calling those people who do not implement Sharia, or God's law, on the planet as apostates. If they did not implement Sharia, they deserved death. This is a major departure from normative Islam."

    "The second major deviation is the targeting of noncombatants. Even when you read in the Quran there are injunctions for fighting. But before and after the injunctions for fighting are calls for restraint. 'Do not attack monks, do not attack women, do not attack children.' And these are numerated heavily in the Hadith, which are uncontested," Malik said, referring to the sayings of the prophet and his close companions.

    "What bin Laden has done is ignored those injunctions," he said. "The reason he has ignored them, in Osama bin Laden's theology it's basically a theology of anarchy.

    "Once you let the genie out of the bottle you can't put it back in, and that's the big difference between al Qaeda theology and normative Islam. Normative Islam has heavy constraints - very, very heavy."

    Bin Laden's theology is waning greatly in influence, Esposito said, in part because of the rise of the Arab Spring, the revolts of people on the street across the Middle East that have overthrown regimes in Tunisia and Egypt.

    "(Al Qaeda's) whole notion was to develop a mass movement," Esposito said. "Well, they never did."
  • ed243421ed243421 Posts: 7,671
    q:why?
    a:gods
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  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Religion is a great motivator to make people do things they wouldn't normally do and divides people (much like borders)

    How would you feel if China started to try and control everything in North America? All our recources, build some bases, Maybe overthrow a few governments and plant the ones they want in power, put sanctions on us so we couldn't get vital goods, all the while giving billions to Mexico while Mexico expands more and more into the US, but you can't doing anything cause Mexico can blow the crap out of us and nobody cares, yet if we retaliate we are terrorists making the world hate us more......

    on and on and on.
  • Who PrincessWho Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    pjhawks wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    read the book "The Looming Tower" - Bin Laden and the hardcore funademantalist muslims needed a new enemy after Afghanistan defeated the Russians and since the US was the only superpower left it gave them an easy target to hate and to continue their campaign of power.
    The Looming Tower is an excellent book, well researched and very thorough about the many factors that gave rise to al Qaeda. As others have said, there's not a simple answer to your question but this book brings together more information than any other resource I've seen.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    It is also because they hate Christians.
    I remember after 9/11 seeing this al-Qaeda propaganda video on the news of terrorists training and storming into some house then shooting at a crucifix on the wall.
    They want a holy war against Christianity.
    Scary stuff.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • zarocatzarocat Posts: 1,901
    Godfather. wrote:
    does anybody have a straight solid answer why alqaeda and bin laden started these attacks on and before 9/11
    and on other country's ?

    Godfather.

    Greed & deception
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  • wolfamongwolveswolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Godfather. wrote:
    Posted this on one of the (too many) other OBL threads. It's an excellent 3-part BBC documentary from 2004 called "The Power of Nightmares" that examines the motivations of both radical Islamism and neoconservativism. There's a lot of answers to your question in there, Godfather. It's long, but it's well worth taking the time and the effort to watch.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0&feature=fvst
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6LhnW4Oa8&NR=1
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvzR8w1 ... re=related

    thanks Bro I'll check it out this weekend, no youtube at work.

    Godfather.

    So, did you? What did you think?
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Godfather. wrote:
    Posted this on one of the (too many) other OBL threads. It's an excellent 3-part BBC documentary from 2004 called "The Power of Nightmares" that examines the motivations of both radical Islamism and neoconservativism. There's a lot of answers to your question in there, Godfather. It's long, but it's well worth taking the time and the effort to watch.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0&feature=fvst
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6LhnW4Oa8&NR=1
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvzR8w1 ... re=related

    thanks Bro I'll check it out this weekend, no youtube at work.

    Godfather.

    So, did you? What did you think?

    no sorry not yet (mothers day) and bussier than a cat covering sit in a litter box but will get on it tonight after work. thanks again.

    Godfather.
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