based on what I've read, rows 1,2,9 and 10 will be assigned to random Ten Clubbers for every show. I personally think its great... you'll have a random assortment of fanatics going bonkers every night because they've never had front row before. And from the band's perspective they get to see new faces every night.
based on what I've read, rows 1,2,9 and 10 will be assigned to random Ten Clubbers for every show. I personally think its great... you'll have a random assortment of fanatics going bonkers every night because they've never had front row before. And from the band's perspective they get to see new faces every night.
Matt
King...that's so cool. So you could go to will call thinking you're in Upper seats and you wind up with row 2? Cool!
And the more shows you go to, the better your chances get.
Does anyone know what the average number of seats a typical row is?
This is a question for ACCBootlegGoddess
Haha thanks Rick...but Marcus (Beerbaron) beat me to it. He is right...normally its about 42 seats, but some venues with a larger floor area have more seats. Most I've ever seen is 50...but that is VERY VERY rare. 42 is most common.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
MSG capacity - about 20,000 seats
10% fan club tickets (if that's what the 10C got) - about 2,000
2000 tickets = 1000 pairs
approx 42 seats in a row?
Odds of front row: 2.1%
Odds of second row: 2.1%
Then subtract out the rows 1 and 2 and 3rd to 8th row (these are based off of senority) = 336 seats
Remaining seats after 8 rows of distribution = 1664 seats = 832 pairs
Now:
Odds of 9th row: 2.5%
Odds of 10th row: 2.5%
So really if the 10% TM fan club rule applies, and you normally do not get better than row 10, you are looking at 9.2% chance of an upgrade....
Go to more shows and your odds will go up.....
i think you are wrong, rows 1-2 and 9-10 are random...therefore that means the people in 3-8 could possibly get randomly selected for rows 9-10, just as they could get 1-2...its only fair
i think you are wrong, rows 1-2 and 9-10 are random...therefore that means the people in 3-8 could possibly get randomly selected for rows 9-10, just as they could get 1-2...its only fair
See, that's what I don't get. Here is my theory on how they could do it in a fair way. Since DC is sold out I'll use them as an example:
Let's say there were a total of 800 seats allocated to the fanclub for DC. That would translate to 400 fanclub members @ two tickets each. They take those 400 fans and randomize it to get the front two rows, which would be 42 total ticket holders. They then take the remainder of the fans and seat them by seniority starting with row 3. When they get to the 9th row, they take the ones left at that point and randomize again, thereby getting rows 9 and 10. When those rows are filled up, then they take the rest of the fans and seat them starting in row 11 and/or on the sides of the stage on the upper levels.
With this theory, the only people that are getting "screwed" are the ones that have been on the front two rows at every show since 1992. There will be the occasional fan that has been in the club forever and decided to go to just one show this time around and subsequently gets put in row 3. That's still not a bad deal. I don't think, anyway.
TEACHER SEEKS PUPIL
Must have an earnest desire to save the world
Apply in person
See, that's what I don't get. Here is my theory on how they could do it in a fair way. Since DC is sold out I'll use them as an example:
Let's say there were a total of 800 seats allocated to the fanclub for DC. That would translate to 400 fanclub members @ two tickets each. They take those 400 fans and randomize it to get the front two rows, which would be 42 total ticket holders. They then take the remainder of the fans and seat them by seniority starting with row 3. When they get to the 9th row, they take the ones left at that point and randomize again, thereby getting rows 9 and 10. When those rows are filled up, then they take the rest of the fans and seat them starting in row 11 and/or on the sides of the stage on the upper levels.
With this theory, the only people that are getting "screwed" are the ones that have been on the front two rows at every show since 1992. There will be the occasional fan that has been in the club forever and decided to go to just one show this time around and subsequently gets put in row 3. That's still not a bad deal. I don't think, anyway.
that makes alot of sense, but thats kind of alot of work for the guy stuffing envelopes. I was just thinking they would have their stack of chronological envelopes, show up to the venue, then randomly select some out of the stack and stuff the random rows. then do the rest chronologically
seems like that is easier, but how ever they do it, im glad their doing it....still though, random should me random and if a 22xxx member cant be randomly selected for a 9-10 row, then its not truly random
So, where do they dump everyone that didn't win the lottery?? What is the worst scenario?...I feel like I need to prepare myself...damn this. It seems like going through Ticketmaster gives you a better chance to get good seats...it'd be nice to know where we're going to be before buying tickets...
See, that's what I don't get. Here is my theory on how they could do it in a fair way. Since DC is sold out I'll use them as an example:
Let's say there were a total of 800 seats allocated to the fanclub for DC. That would translate to 400 fanclub members @ two tickets each. They take those 400 fans and randomize it to get the front two rows, which would be 42 total ticket holders. They then take the remainder of the fans and seat them by seniority starting with row 3. When they get to the 9th row, they take the ones left at that point and randomize again, thereby getting rows 9 and 10. When those rows are filled up, then they take the rest of the fans and seat them starting in row 11 and/or on the sides of the stage on the upper levels.
With this theory, the only people that are getting "screwed" are the ones that have been on the front two rows at every show since 1992. There will be the occasional fan that has been in the club forever and decided to go to just one show this time around and subsequently gets put in row 3. That's still not a bad deal. I don't think, anyway.
This makes the most sense to me. Last time in Boston I had row 6. Based on the 'random selection' it could get worse for me getting bumped back to 9-10. I guess the folks in rows 1-2 every time have the same argument though....
i think you are wrong, rows 1-2 and 9-10 are random...therefore that means the people in 3-8 could possibly get randomly selected for rows 9-10, just as they could get 1-2...its only fair
I asked the ten club about this. They said if senority placed you in row 4 you could not then be randomly selected for rows 9-10.
Here is the e-mail:
Re: Random Rows 9-10
From: Ten Club, LLC. (<!-- e --><a href="mailto:info@tenclub.net">info@tenclub.net</a><!-- e -->)
Sent: Fri 3/21/08 5:08 PM
NO, this will not happen.
Best,
10c
On 3/21/08 11:02 AM, wrote:
Question - If seniority places you in row 4, is there a possibility that you could then be randomly selected for row 9 or 10 and moved back? I know you are busy so thanks for answering.
107 total First-Summerfest, Milwaukee '95 Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2
I think I missed an aspect in my original post, so I'll try to explain it further:
Step 1: Use some sort of software to "seat" everyone chronologically based on Tenclub number.
Step 2: Draw a line between rows 8 and 9, thereby creating two separate groups.
Step 3: Take the first group, rows 1-8, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 1-2. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 3-8 based on their seniority in the Ten club.
Step 4: Take the second group, rows 9-?, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 9-10. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 11-? based on their seniority in the Ten club.
So, where do they dump everyone that didn't win the lottery?? What is the worst scenario?...
They would dump you in chronological order based on your Ten club number starting with row 3. If my theory is correct.
So what does "random" actually mean?
There are two ways they could implement the randomness:
A. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows by their Ten club number. So they would be picked at random but not seated at random.
or
B. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows randomly. So they would be picked at random and seated at random.
rows 1-2 and rows 9-10 will now be RANDOM distribution. This means regardless of your member number you will have a chance of occupying seats within those random rows.
....it sounds like they would only be picked at random. It doesn't really say how you'd be seated, only that you'll be picked at random from all of the fan club members that bought tickets to that show.
Based on the answer that RockMama got from the Ten club, it would seem like they're going with a theory like the one I posted yesterday and reiterated in this post.
I don't think it would be a lot of work for anyone in particular. They would do most of it on a computer. I would imagine that there is software out there that was designed specifically for something like this. The person/people that would be stuffing the envelopes would just have to do the actual stuffing part. Everything would be lined up for them before hand. These people have been doing it for a while so I'm sure they've gotten lots of practice and can do it pretty efficiently. Besides, we're only talking about 10 (12?) shows.
TEACHER SEEKS PUPIL
Must have an earnest desire to save the world
Apply in person
I think I missed an aspect in my original post, so I'll try to explain it further:
Step 1: Use some sort of software to "seat" everyone chronologically based on Tenclub number.
Step 2: Draw a line between rows 8 and 9, thereby creating two separate groups.
Step 3: Take the first group, rows 1-8, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 1-2. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 3-8 based on their seniority in the Ten club.
Step 4: Take the second group, rows 9-?, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 9-10. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 11-? based on their seniority in the Ten club.
They would dump you in chronological order based on your Ten club number starting with row 3. If my theory is correct.
So what does "random" actually mean?
There are two ways they could implement the randomness:
A. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows by their Ten club number. So they would be picked at random but not seated at random.
or
B. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows randomly. So they would be picked at random and seated at random.
The way it's worded now...
....it sounds like they would only be picked at random. It doesn't really say how you'd be seated, only that you'll be picked at random from all of the fan club members that bought tickets to that show.
Based on the answer that RockMama got from the Ten club, it would seem like they're going with a theory like the one I posted yesterday and reiterated in this post.
I don't think it would be a lot of work for anyone in particular. They would do most of it on a computer. I would imagine that there is software out there that was designed specifically for something like this. The person/people that would be stuffing the envelopes would just have to do the actual stuffing part. Everything would be lined up for them before hand. These people have been doing it for a while so I'm sure they've gotten lots of practice and can do it pretty efficiently. Besides, we're only talking about 10 (12?) shows.
so according to your steps 3 and 4, the only people who can get rows 1-2 are people who are already right upfront already and part of rows 1-8. and the best someone with a high number can get is rows 9-10.
thats not random
i dislike when people misuse words like "random". its hard enough for something to be truly random. even human selection isnt purely random due to patterns that people generate in their heads. Computers arnt all that random either, there are still calculations that generate the random numbers and there are patterns in those as well. But the scenarios placed before us here and what they 10C has set, means its not truly random in the sense of the word but more like a designed order than anything else.
Comments
Matt
King...that's so cool. So you could go to will call thinking you're in Upper seats and you wind up with row 2? Cool!
your odds of landing those seats in the first 2 rows ARE 1000-1.....
but it is very cool that there will be some lucky people who experience the shows from up close....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
And the more shows you go to, the better your chances get.
Does anyone know what the average number of seats a typical row is?
This is a question for ACCBootlegGoddess
Must have an earnest desire to save the world
Apply in person
lets say they are drawing the peoples names out of a hat....
lets also say there are 1000 fan club members who got seats for MSG..
your odds of having your name picked....are 1000-1...right???
when they pick the seond name...your odds are 999-1....right???
then 998-1..
997-1....blah blah blah...
in reality its a HUGE LONGSHOT to get those tickets in the first 2 rows...
but ITS GREAT THAT EVERYONE WILL HAVE THAT CHANCE!!!!!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
MSG capacity - about 20,000 seats
10% fan club tickets (if that's what the 10C got) - about 2,000
2000 tickets = 1000 pairs
approx 42 seats in a row?
Odds of front row: 2.1%
Odds of second row: 2.1%
Then subtract out the rows 1 and 2 and 3rd to 8th row (these are based off of senority) = 336 seats
Remaining seats after 8 rows of distribution = 1664 seats = 832 pairs
Now:
Odds of 9th row: 2.5%
Odds of 10th row: 2.5%
So really if the 10% TM fan club rule applies, and you normally do not get better than row 10, you are looking at 9.2% chance of an upgrade....
Go to more shows and your odds will go up.....
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
and be happy you got that seat!!!!!!!!!
hehehehehehe...........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Philly- 2005, 2013, 2016, 2024
Camden 2000, 2003, 2006, 2008, 2022, 2023
Philly Spectrum 2009 x4 - We closed that MFER Down Proper
Baltimore- 2024
DC- 2006, 2008
New York- 2008, 2010
Boston - Fenway 2016 (night 2) , 2024 (night1)
East Rutherford, New Jersey- 2006
Chicago - Lollapalooza 2007
Seattle- Gorge 2005
EV Solo- DC x2, Baltimore x2 , Newark NJ x2, Tower Theater x2
- Given To Fly
But they always turn around and face the back when they play Last Kiss.....
Probably so!
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Haha thanks Rick...but Marcus (Beerbaron) beat me to it. He is right...normally its about 42 seats, but some venues with a larger floor area have more seats. Most I've ever seen is 50...but that is VERY VERY rare. 42 is most common.
i think you are wrong, rows 1-2 and 9-10 are random...therefore that means the people in 3-8 could possibly get randomly selected for rows 9-10, just as they could get 1-2...its only fair
See, that's what I don't get. Here is my theory on how they could do it in a fair way. Since DC is sold out I'll use them as an example:
Let's say there were a total of 800 seats allocated to the fanclub for DC. That would translate to 400 fanclub members @ two tickets each. They take those 400 fans and randomize it to get the front two rows, which would be 42 total ticket holders. They then take the remainder of the fans and seat them by seniority starting with row 3. When they get to the 9th row, they take the ones left at that point and randomize again, thereby getting rows 9 and 10. When those rows are filled up, then they take the rest of the fans and seat them starting in row 11 and/or on the sides of the stage on the upper levels.
With this theory, the only people that are getting "screwed" are the ones that have been on the front two rows at every show since 1992. There will be the occasional fan that has been in the club forever and decided to go to just one show this time around and subsequently gets put in row 3. That's still not a bad deal. I don't think, anyway.
Must have an earnest desire to save the world
Apply in person
I am super impressed by those Grade 11 math skills...and I swear i'm not being sarcastic
that makes alot of sense, but thats kind of alot of work for the guy stuffing envelopes. I was just thinking they would have their stack of chronological envelopes, show up to the venue, then randomly select some out of the stack and stuff the random rows. then do the rest chronologically
seems like that is easier, but how ever they do it, im glad their doing it....still though, random should me random and if a 22xxx member cant be randomly selected for a 9-10 row, then its not truly random
98-Camden
03-Camden
06-Prague, Berlin, Vienna, Zagreb
07-Katowice
08-NYC I/II, Hartford, Mansfield I/II
This makes the most sense to me. Last time in Boston I had row 6. Based on the 'random selection' it could get worse for me getting bumped back to 9-10. I guess the folks in rows 1-2 every time have the same argument though....
|11.6.00Seattle|6.6.03Vegas|6.7.03PHX|5.25.06Boston|7.22.06Gorge|7.23.06Gorge|9.21.09Seattle|9.22.09Seattle |10.6.09LA|11.19.13PHX|11.29.13Portland|12.6.13Seattle |10.22.14Denver| 8.8.18 Seattle | 8.10.18 Seattle
EV Solo |7.15.11 Benaroya|7.16.11 Benaroya|4.13.12PHX|10.30.14Redmond|
TOTD 11.11.16 San Fran
I asked the ten club about this. They said if senority placed you in row 4 you could not then be randomly selected for rows 9-10.
Here is the e-mail:
Re: Random Rows 9-10
From: Ten Club, LLC. (<!-- e --><a href="mailto:info@tenclub.net">info@tenclub.net</a><!-- e -->)
Sent: Fri 3/21/08 5:08 PM
NO, this will not happen.
Best,
10c
On 3/21/08 11:02 AM, wrote:
Question - If seniority places you in row 4, is there a possibility that you could then be randomly selected for row 9 or 10 and moved back? I know you are busy so thanks for answering.
Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2
Step 1: Use some sort of software to "seat" everyone chronologically based on Tenclub number.
Step 2: Draw a line between rows 8 and 9, thereby creating two separate groups.
Step 3: Take the first group, rows 1-8, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 1-2. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 3-8 based on their seniority in the Ten club.
Step 4: Take the second group, rows 9-?, and randomly pick 21 members (two seats per fan club member) and put those members in rows 9-10. The rest of the members in this group will be seated from rows 11-? based on their seniority in the Ten club.
They would dump you in chronological order based on your Ten club number starting with row 3. If my theory is correct.
So what does "random" actually mean?
There are two ways they could implement the randomness:
A. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows by their Ten club number. So they would be picked at random but not seated at random.
or
B. Randomly pick 21 people for rows 1-2 and rows 9-10, then seat them within these two groups of rows randomly. So they would be picked at random and seated at random.
The way it's worded now...
....it sounds like they would only be picked at random. It doesn't really say how you'd be seated, only that you'll be picked at random from all of the fan club members that bought tickets to that show.
Based on the answer that RockMama got from the Ten club, it would seem like they're going with a theory like the one I posted yesterday and reiterated in this post.
I don't think it would be a lot of work for anyone in particular. They would do most of it on a computer. I would imagine that there is software out there that was designed specifically for something like this. The person/people that would be stuffing the envelopes would just have to do the actual stuffing part. Everything would be lined up for them before hand. These people have been doing it for a while so I'm sure they've gotten lots of practice and can do it pretty efficiently. Besides, we're only talking about 10 (12?) shows.
Must have an earnest desire to save the world
Apply in person
so according to your steps 3 and 4, the only people who can get rows 1-2 are people who are already right upfront already and part of rows 1-8. and the best someone with a high number can get is rows 9-10.
thats not random
i dislike when people misuse words like "random". its hard enough for something to be truly random. even human selection isnt purely random due to patterns that people generate in their heads. Computers arnt all that random either, there are still calculations that generate the random numbers and there are patterns in those as well. But the scenarios placed before us here and what they 10C has set, means its not truly random in the sense of the word but more like a designed order than anything else.
Can Someone Clarify The Lottery?
they will randomly choose who will sit in rows 1-2....and 9-10..
the rest of the seats will be given away just as they always have been....... using seniority....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Thanks.
i hope you get first row center!!!!!!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
How about an instrumental version of Hard Sun? http://www.gremmie.net/bsides/Into%20The%20Wild%20Demos/Hard%20Sun%20[Instrumental].mp3
I love this site!
http://www.gremmie.net/bsides/Into%20The%20Wild%20Demos/Hard%20Sun%20[Instrumental].mp3
http://www.gremmie.net/bsides/
It really is quite simple - people are way overthinking it.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
but thats cool...people get excited...
and there is nothing wrong with getting excited to go see pearl jam live....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
almost
they will randomly choose who will sit in rows 1 and 2 (everybody's in for this lottery)
then they will seat 3 through 8 by seniority of those left over
then they will random draw rows 9 and 10 (everybody left is eligible)
then they will seat rows 11 and back by seniority of those left over
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
the rest will based on seniority.....its pretty damned simple.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....