I am sure you have all

mikepegg44

seen this but I have heard it revisited a little bit this week and am interested what people think...Seriously, do we need state regulation of games that can be played at summer camp?
When will people realize that the money grabs will never stop and start voicing their displeasure with their votes instead of using these things as humorous anecdotes about how crazy government bureaucracy is getting...


http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/04/19/2011-04-19_classic_kids_games_like_kickball_deemed_unsafe_by_state_in_effort_to_increase_su.html

the kid at the end sums up what a lot of folks think the government's job is ..."it is better to be safe than sorry"...at what point does it become self defeating? at what point are the costs too much for the theoretical good that may or may not be acheived?
I don't know maybe I am reading to hard into this.

here is another great quote from the article

Susan Craig, a spokeswoman for the city Health Department, said the new law is not expected to have much impact since most city programs already meet the state requirements.
well thank god the new rules will not really do much, unbelievable...Great job legislators, at least you got this problem solved that didn't seem to be a problem anyway

UpSideDown

mikepegg44 wrote:

When will people realize that the money grabs will never stop and start voicing their displeasure with their votes instead of using these things as humorous anecdotes about how crazy government bureaucracy is getting...

\

The next logical step would to just deem being a child as risky. Seriously. Kids get hurt. It happens; deal with it.

Voicing displeasure with votes? I honestly don't know if that can be done, when the next guy in line is just a crock of shit too. How do we voice our displeasure with the fundamental layout of our government in general?

keeponrockin

Oh fuck, kick ball was awesome, as was dodgeball.

Funny story, at my highschool in the last year they replaced the dodgeballs with safer foam ones, basically you couldn't get any speed on them. In the teacher/student game, a teacher jumped, landed on one, and broke his foot. Using the 'safety' equipment.

mikepegg44

UpSideDown wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

When will people realize that the money grabs will never stop and start voicing their displeasure with their votes instead of using these things as humorous anecdotes about how crazy government bureaucracy is getting...

\

The next logical step would to just deem being a child as risky. Seriously. Kids get hurt. It happens; deal with it.

Voicing displeasure with votes? I honestly don't know if that can be done, when the next guy in line is just a crock of shit too. How do we voice our displeasure with the fundamental layout of our government in general?

understandable, but we all too often neglect taking a serious look at our state and local representatives, when their policies really do have a much larger impact on our lives.

I guess I may look at it too serioulsy, but I am sick and tired of regulations about individual safety...it is hard to put it into words what I am talking about but it can be summed up in seatbelts...shouldn't it be my choice to use one or not? why on earth can I be pulled over and ticketed for not doing something for my own personal safety?

cincybearcat

keeponrockin wrote:

Oh fuck, kick ball was awesome, as was dodgeball.

Funny story, at my highschool in the last year they replaced the dodgeballs with safer foam ones, basically you couldn't get any speed on them. In the teacher/student game, a teacher jumped, landed on one, and broke his foot. Using the 'safety' equipment.

Cause he couldn't have broken his foot if it were the old balls right?

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

I guess I may look at it too serioulsy, but I am sick and tired of regulations about individual safety...it is hard to put it into words what I am talking about but it can be summed up in seatbelts...shouldn't it be my choice to use one or not? why on earth can I be pulled over and ticketed for not doing something for my own personal safety?

I'm fine with that....so long as your car insurance company doesn't have to pay your bills if you crash and are injured. Because that drives up everyone's cost.

I also wonder why people don't want to take some minor precautions that certainly could save their lives...but oh well. Hopefully Darwinism will get them in the end.

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I guess I may look at it too serioulsy, but I am sick and tired of regulations about individual safety...it is hard to put it into words what I am talking about but it can be summed up in seatbelts...shouldn't it be my choice to use one or not? why on earth can I be pulled over and ticketed for not doing something for my own personal safety?

I'm fine with that....so long as your car insurance company doesn't have to pay your bills if you crash and are injured. Because that drives up everyone's cost.

I also wonder why people don't want to take some minor precautions that certainly could save their lives...but oh well. Hopefully Darwinism will get them in the end.

I wear my seat belt every time I am in the car, that isn't the point though, darwinism will get rid of stupid people, but you cannot legislate for everything that is stupid.
My car insurance rate has not gone up in the last 2 years and I can promise you that state farm has paid out claims for stupid behavior. in fact it went down, explain to me how anyone not wearing their seatbelt affected your rates? I am not calling you a liar or anything, but I don't understand? Someone who does not wear their seatbelt should definitely have to pay a higher premium, but that is up to the insurance company to measure the risk, it isn't the governments job to make sure that I am not an idiot...

norm

my mom said this once...every child born should have a sticker placed on it that reads

WARNING: LIVING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

I wear my seat belt every time I am in the car, that isn't the point though, darwinism will get rid of stupid people, but you cannot legislate for everything that is stupid.
My car insurance rate has not gone up in the last 2 years and I can promise you that state farm has paid out claims for stupid behavior. in fact it went down, explain to me how anyone not wearing their seatbelt affected your rates? I am not calling you a liar or anything, but I don't understand? Someone who does not wear their seatbelt should definitely have to pay a higher premium, but that is up to the insurance company to measure the risk, it isn't the governments job to make sure that I am not an idiot...

Didn't say you didn't.

You can't understand that if less people were wearing seatbelts, resulting in worse injuries, resulting in more $ paid out by insurance companies, would eventually cause an increase in premiums for everyone?

Anyhow, as I said, I understand your reluctance to have the government regulate personal behavior in this way. Just so long as those people are responsible for their own choices....like paying higher premiums or having insurance not pay, etc.

My other point is that far too often adults act like children and rebel against things they are "forced" to do, despite the fact that if they really looked at the situation, they would agree it was best. This is the same reason that the people that are the hardest to get to follow safety procedures at work just so happen to be the people that you are trying to protect. But the sure as hell will sue the company the first time they get hurt. Ahhhh....life is grand.

Jason P

When you really think back at all the stupid crap you did as a kid, it's amazing that a good percentage of us made it into our 20's with ten fingers and toes. In elementary school we used launch ourselves out of swing sets as high as we could get and immediately try it again... something that if I tried today would result in leg casts or paralysis.

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I wear my seat belt every time I am in the car, that isn't the point though, darwinism will get rid of stupid people, but you cannot legislate for everything that is stupid.
My car insurance rate has not gone up in the last 2 years and I can promise you that state farm has paid out claims for stupid behavior. in fact it went down, explain to me how anyone not wearing their seatbelt affected your rates? I am not calling you a liar or anything, but I don't understand? Someone who does not wear their seatbelt should definitely have to pay a higher premium, but that is up to the insurance company to measure the risk, it isn't the governments job to make sure that I am not an idiot...

Didn't say you didn't.

You can't understand that if less people were wearing seatbelts, resulting in worse injuries, resulting in more $ paid out by insurance companies, would eventually cause an increase in premiums for everyone?

Anyhow, as I said, I understand your reluctance to have the government regulate personal behavior in this way. Just so long as those people are responsible for their own choices....like paying higher premiums or having insurance not pay, etc.

My other point is that far too often adults act like children and rebel against things they are "forced" to do, despite the fact that if they really looked at the situation, they would agree it was best. This is the same reason that the people that are the hardest to get to follow safety procedures at work just so happen to be the people that you are trying to protect. But the sure as hell will sue the company the first time they get hurt. Ahhhh....life is grand.

I understand what you are saying, but everyone's behavior affects the cost of just about everything it seems, I would imagine eating/drinking/changing the radio while driving cause more harm then not wearing a seatbelt.

and you are right, there is definitely a rebel attitude that makes people not want to follow the rules...and yes, it is a well meaning rule, but I definitely subscribe to the slippery slope theory here...and seatbelt laws, as much as they are well meaning have now lead to deeming freeze tag a dangerous activity that must be regulated...at least that is my thoughts on it. Again it isn't a terrible thing, but what will it lead to next?

I actually have been having a good time thinking of things that may one day be illegal...it was a fun game until it started to get horribly sad...

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

When you really think back at all the stupid crap you did as a kid, it's amazing that a good percentage of us made it into our 20's with ten fingers and toes. In elementary school we used launch ourselves out of swing sets as high as we could get and immediately try it again... something that if I tried today would result in leg casts or paralysis.

we used to make throwing stars in shop class...I would get expelled for that now...we literally had a throwing star game similar to darts that we played with the teacher for god's sake...my elementary school had a 20 foot high pyramid of monkey bars over ASPHALT...
it is unreal the differences in such a short period of time...I know everyone means well with their proposals and regulations, but I just don't feel it is in the best interest of everyone involved to have a nanny state

Blockhead

Last year I heard a state official (Ohio) wanted to implement a helmet law while sled riding. He said there were to many head injuries and that at Public parks where kids were sled riding they would recieve a $50 FINE if not wearing a helmet...
Ill have to find that article. People actually think like this...

My dad always tells me " Son when your daughters are old enough to drive, there will be a helmet law for operating / driving a car" Sounds like hes from the future.

JonnyPistachio

Blockhead wrote:

Last year I heard a state official (Ohio) wanted to implement a helmet law while sled riding. He said there were to many head injuries and that at Public parks where kids were sled riding they would recieve a $50 FINE if not wearing a helmet...
Ill have to find that article. People actually think like this...

My dad always tells me " Son when your daughters are old enough to drive, there will be a helmet law for operating / driving a car" Sounds like hes from the future.

The irony I see in all of this is there used to be a helmet law for motorcycles in FLa, but they eliminated it a few years back. Let 'em do with their melons what they like!

Jason P

mikepegg44 wrote:

we used to make throwing stars in shop class...I would get expelled for that now...we literally had a throwing star game similar to darts that we played with the teacher for god's sake...my elementary school had a 20 foot high pyramid of monkey bars over ASPHALT...
it is unreal the differences in such a short period of time...I know everyone means well with their proposals and regulations, but I just don't feel it is in the best interest of everyone involved to have a nanny state

Did you ever have a maypole in your playground as a kid? It consisted of a 12' steel pole that had eight chains that connected to a swivel at the top and had cast iron handles attached to the ends. Kids would grab a handle and run around the pole until the collective inertia allowed everyone to leave their feet and fly around the pole while hanging on for dear life. Letting go resulted in you flying into pea gravel and possibly taking out bystanders as a human bowling ball. I think the town wised up and tore them down after my buddy broke his arm because we launched him over a hedge row.

Jason P

One last bit of nostalgia ...

In junior high we used to take empty CO2 canisters and fill them up with powder from Black Cat firecrackers or gunpowder ... essentially a pipe bomb. Our only intent was to blow things up around the country after school (none of my friends or I had cable ). Anyway, long story short, we were going over to a friends house after school and my buddy had one fall out of his book bag and accidently left it on the school bus. We got five days detention.

Can you imagine what would have happened if this happened any later then 1999? There would have been Fox News and CNN helicopters circling 24/7, lifetime expulsion from school, I'd be on the no-fly list, years of counseling, etc. I'm in no way advocating that kids should be able to make pipe bombs, but yeah, things have changed quite a bid in the last several decades.

cincybearcat

Jason P wrote:

One last bit of nostalgia ...

In junior high we used to take empty CO2 canisters and fill them up with powder from Black Cat firecrackers or gunpowder ... essentially a pipe bomb. Our only intent was to blow things up around the country after school (none of my friends or I had cable ). Anyway, long story short, we were going over to a friends house after school and my buddy had one fall out of his book bag and accidently left it on the school bus. We got five days detention.

Can you imagine what would have happened if this happened any later then 1999? There would have been Fox News and CNN helicopters circling 24/7, lifetime expulsion from school, I'd be on the no-fly list, years of counseling, etc. I'm in no way advocating that kids should be able to make pipe bombs, but yeah, things have changed quite a bid in the last several decades.

And can you imagine what would have happened if it blew up the bus with kids on it?

Jason P

cincybearcat wrote:

And can you imagine what would have happened if it blew up the bus with kids on it?

Ten days of detention?

cincybearcat

Jason P wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

And can you imagine what would have happened if it blew up the bus with kids on it?

Ten days of detention?

And what about after 1999?

Jason P

cincybearcat wrote:

Jason P wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

And can you imagine what would have happened if it blew up the bus with kids on it?

Ten days of detention?

And what about after 1999?

Well, I'd be praying for all the left-wing liberal groups to argue on my behalf for rehabilitation and hopefully end up spending a few years in juvi before being released at the crisp age of 18.

I know it was dumb in retrospect, but there is no way it could have gone off unless the fuse was lit and we were the last ones off the bus. No one was using CO2 bombs as a weapon of terror back then so it never really dawned upon us the trouble we could get into. It was just a powerful firework to us.

aerial

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I guess I may look at it too serioulsy, but I am sick and tired of regulations about individual safety...it is hard to put it into words what I am talking about but it can be summed up in seatbelts...shouldn't it be my choice to use one or not? why on earth can I be pulled over and ticketed for not doing something for my own personal safety?

I'm fine with that....so long as your car insurance company doesn't have to pay your bills if you crash and are injured. Because that drives up everyone's cost.

I also wonder why people don't want to take some minor precautions that certainly could save their lives...but oh well. Hopefully Darwinism will get them in the end.

My car insurance went up 200.00 dollars a year because there has been a rash of cars being broken into at the beach were I live. That is the reason the agent gave me. I have not had a ticket in 15 years and only 2 tickets in my whole life and I am 50. I was hoping it would go down. I think they just make shit up to raise the rates.

aerial

If they are going to make rules like this how long will it be before mountain climbing, sky diving, surfing or skate boarding is against the law?

markin ball

Everything like this involves drawing a line somewhere. Some of us believe where we draw the line is obvious but some of us find it more nuanced. Unfortunately, with safety issues, the bottom line of insurance companies is generally where it is drawn and are government responds to their wishes/campaign contributions.

kenny olav

This is just another case of the state finding any stupid reason to collect money because the they don't have the balls to tax the wealthy... because the wealthy took possession of their balls. And now they own Dodgeball.

Kid should have the freedom to get hit in the balls, to remind them that they have them.

Cosmo

Has anyone here pinned part of the responsibility of the PARENTS of kids who get hurt at day camp any file lawsuits?
Most laws are reactive, not proactive. That is, they are legislated in response to something. Something like a fucking kid twisting his ankle rounding first base in a kickball game. Figure out the age of the kids and guesstimate the average that the parents would be. Those are the assholes who are partly to blame... the fuckers who will sue the state to get out of paying the fees paid to the day camp.

arthurdent

aerial wrote:

If they are going to make rules like this how long will it be before mountain climbing, sky diving, surfing or skate boarding is against the law?

I've never done it, but I think you have to sign some sort of liability waiver when you skydive.

arthurdent

Cosmo wrote:

Has anyone here pinned part of the responsibility of the PARENTS of kids who get hurt at day camp any file lawsuits?

I thought getting hurt was part of childhood??? At least it was for me

Cosmo

arthurdent wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Has anyone here pinned part of the responsibility of the PARENTS of kids who get hurt at day camp any file lawsuits?

I thought getting hurt was part of childhood??? At least it was for me

...
It is.
It is the fucking asshole PARENTS that sue when their fucking kids get hurt. Sue the city if your kid's skateboard endos on an expansion gap on the sidewalk. Sue the school if your kid falls of the monkey bars during recess. Sue the state if your kid takes a kickball to the face at a state run day camp.
Kids do sue... their fucking ASSHOLE Parents sue.