President Obama's Speech

inlet13

Is anyone else starting to get really annoyed with this guy? I respect him as a politician. He's a great speaker. He's obviously intelligent. But, his recent approach is absolutely ridiculous. The debt problem is real and it's not going away.

We have the IMF coming out saying "US has a credibility problem" when it comes to debt. In the first 6 months of this year, our deficit increased 16%. We are on the brink of being downgraded on our bonds.

This guy's plan is now to raise taxes on those who make over $250K. Let's start with that. Those who make over $250K pay roughly 50% of income taxes. Sure, that's a lot of money, but it's also f'ing people who pay most of our income taxes. That money could go elsewhere. Coming out of a recession, raising taxes is not (in my opinion the best logic).

Regardless, even if you disagree with that logic. I hope you'd admit, that this is the same guy who just signed in a law extending the tax cuts. Seriously? Now that the political wind has shifted, he's bringing this back up again? Dude, you just signed that in! Now you're saying that's your solution... to do the opposite of what you already did? Come on...

Why can't he focus on cutting "SPENDING"? Why do we need to continue to go back to "INCOME/REVENUES"?

Look at the situation like a household. If you are getting calls from collection agencies in regards to your credit, should you continue to spend? Obama continues to focus on revenues and not on spending. He responds to the collectors, "oh I have a plan, we'll bring in more money". Come on, spending needs to be reduced. This guy is really starting to bother me.

Even if tax revenues increase with raising taxes, why is his sole focus on that side of the equation? Can't he atleast outline his plans a bit better for cuts? Tell us what you will cut. The deficit has pushed national debt above 14 trillion.... Obama wants us to raise the debt ceiling... (for good reason, so we don't default on our debt)... Republicans want cuts in return for raising the debt ceiling... so, this speech is Obama's retort? Dodge the spending argument? You kidding?

We're Greece in waiting. We have debt through the roof. A very high unemployment rate. Today, CNBC came out and said if we used the methodology used in the 80s for the CPI, we'd have inflation at 10%. He's officially lost me now... I'm done with any backing I've given this idiot...

inmytree

I listened to it and thought it was pretty good...

not sure what you wanted him to say...but it sounds as if no matter what he said, you'd be upset...

inlet13

inmytree wrote:

I listened to it and thought it was pretty good...

not sure what you wanted him to say...but it sounds as if no matter what he said, you'd be upset...

What exactly did he say that you thought was "pretty good"? His recycled argument on the Bush Tax Cuts he just extended a few months ago?

inmytree

inlet13 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I listened to it and thought it was pretty good...

not sure what you wanted him to say...but it sounds as if no matter what he said, you'd be upset...

What exactly did he say that you thought was "pretty good"? His recycled argument on the Bush Tax Cuts he just extended a few months ago?

yup, that was pretty good...

I thought he was correct in pointing out the Ryan plan was bullshit...so I found that "pretty good"...

inlet13

inmytree wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I listened to it and thought it was pretty good...

not sure what you wanted him to say...but it sounds as if no matter what he said, you'd be upset...

What exactly did he say that you thought was "pretty good"? His recycled argument on the Bush Tax Cuts he just extended a few months ago?

yup, that was pretty good...

I thought he was correct in pointing out the Ryan plan was bullshit...so I found that "pretty good"...

Then, can you at least concede that this guy's plan is to do the opposite of what he did several months ago?

inmytree

inlet13 wrote:

Then, can you at least concede that this guy's plan is to do the opposite of what he did several months ago?

:?

I'm not sure what you're asking...?

inlet13

inmytree wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Then, can you at least concede that this guy's plan is to do the opposite of what he did several months ago?

:?

I'm not sure what you're asking...?

A few months ago he extended the Bush tax cuts. Now, he's saying he won't do that again. That's his plan to handle the debt crisis.... to not do again what he did a few months ago.

inmytree

inlet13 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Then, can you at least concede that this guy's plan is to do the opposite of what he did several months ago?

:?

I'm not sure what you're asking...?

A few months ago he extended the Bush tax cuts. Now, he's saying he won't do that again. That's his plan to handle the debt crisis.... to not do again what he did a few months ago.

For the record, the repubs pushed for the extension and I think it was bullshit that he caved, I'm glad he's now planning letting the bush tax cuts expire...

pandora

I kept hearing "as long as I'm in office" ... "as long as I am President"

workin on another 4

thats ok by me.... he's as good as anybody and gives a pretty speech

MJ's song kept playing through my head though... "they don't really care about us"

catchy tune goes well with smoke screen

EdsonNascimento

Here's the basic problem:

10 guys (and/or gals) go into a bar and buy a round of 10 beers for $20. 1 guy isn't trying to be a show off, but he knows he's got a little more discretionary money than his lifelong pals. So, he puts in $5. 3 other guys recognize they too are slightly better off (but not as much as their buddy that they are so very proud of for achieving great things so far in life) and put in $3 each. The last 6 guys throw down their $1's and huzzah's all around.

The bartender notices this and says to himself - wait a second. The "King" can certainly afford more and his court should share in his good fortune. After all, they're all in this together. They've been friends for life. So, he raises his price for the 10 beers to $32.

The first guy feels terrible about this. This is the same place he and all his buddies have been going since they were in college together, and he'd hate to lose his Friday nights with the boys. So, he throws down "only" 3 extra, as he's saving for his kids' college education and despite his great fortune, college is expensive. The 2nd 3 can't afford much more, but they willingly ask the remaining guys to split the rest. It's tight for everyone, but they all want the good time to keep rolling. And besides, if their very fortunate friend can put in another $3, they can at least put in another buck each. So now their paying:

First guy: $8
2nd Three: $4
Final 6: $2

One Friday night, the first guy leaves early because his wife is delivering their 3rd child. The last 9 stay and one of the Final 6 say - you know, when prices went up in this place, first guy only contributed another 60%, while we doubled our contribution. And you 2nd three got off even easier paying only another 33% more. And besides, that $8 is only 20% of his salary, while your $4 is 33% of yours and $2 is 50% of ours. I really think we need to reconsider how we’re splitting the tab.

So, the next week they propose a new structure that everyone pays the same % of their salary to the tab. So, now they are paying:

1st guy: $12.75
2nd three: $3.90
Final 6: $1.25 (about)

First guy says – ok, whatever. We’re friends. We’ll deal with it. But, again, after paying his tab he leaves, and the final 6 get to talking again. You know? Even with what he’s paying, he still has over $27 left in salary. That’s $23 more than any of us make IN TOTAL. It’s even $15 more than you 3 guys make! Hell! He should buy us peanuts, too.

So, the next week, the bill comes to this:

First guy $29 (he has to buy peanuts for everyone at $0.50 each, but he doesn’t buy himself any b/c they’ve been coming for years and didn’t need them, so why do they need them now. But, they're his friends, and if that’s what they want, that’s what they should have. Plus the bartender increased his prices, again!)
2nd three: $3.50
Final 6: Get their beer, peanuts and $0.25 to do with as they wish.

Everyone drinks up, and eats their peanuts.

They all come back next week, the bartender is now charging a cover charge. The 2nd three and Final 6 pay their nickel to get in and wait on their first friend to arrive. And they wait. And they wait. And they wait.......

Indifference

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Here's the basic problem:

10 guys (and/or gals) go into a bar and buy a round of 10 beers for $20. 1 guy isn't trying to be a show off, but he knows he's got a little more discretionary money than his lifelong pals. So, he puts in $5. 3 other guys recognize they too are slightly better off (but not as much as their buddy that they are so very proud of for achieving great things so far in life) and put in $3 each. The last 6 guys throw down their $1's and huzzah's all around.

The bartender notices this and says to himself - wait a second. The "King" can certainly afford more and his court should share in his good fortune. After all, they're all in this together. They've been friends for life. So, he raises his price for the 10 beers to $32.

The first guy feels terrible about this. This is the same place he and all his buddies have been going since they were in college together, and he'd hate to lose his Friday nights with the boys. So, he throws down "only" 3 extra, as he's saving for his kids' college education and despite his great fortune, college is expensive. The 2nd 3 can't afford much more, but they willingly ask the remaining guys to split the rest. It's tight for everyone, but they all want the good time to keep rolling. And besides, if their very fortunate friend can put in another $3, they can at least put in another buck each. So now their paying:

First guy: $8
2nd Three: $4
Final 6: $2

One Friday night, the first guy leaves early because his wife is delivering their 3rd child. The last 9 stay and one of the Final 6 say - you know, when prices went up in this place, first guy only contributed another 60%, while we doubled our contribution. And you 2nd three got off even easier paying only another 33% more. And besides, that $8 is only 20% of his salary, while your $4 is 33% of yours and $2 is 50% of ours. I really think we need to reconsider how we’re splitting the tab.

So, the next week they propose a new structure that everyone pays the same % of their salary to the tab. So, now they are paying:

1st guy: $12.75
2nd three: $3.90
Final 6: $1.25 (about)

First guy says – ok, whatever. We’re friends. We’ll deal with it. But, again, after paying his tab he leaves, and the final 6 get to talking again. You know? Even with what he’s paying, he still has over $27 left in salary. That’s $23 more than any of us make IN TOTAL. It’s even $15 more than you 3 guys make! Hell! He should buy us peanuts, too.

So, the next week, the bill comes to this:

First guy $29 (he has to buy peanuts for everyone at $0.50 each, but he doesn’t buy himself any b/c they’ve been coming for years and didn’t need them, so why do they need them now. But, they're his friends, and if that’s what they want, that’s what they should have. Plus the bartender increased his prices, again!)
2nd three: $3.50
Final 6: Get their beer, peanuts and $0.25 to do with as they wish.

Everyone drinks up, and eats their peanuts.

They all come back next week, the bartender is now charging a cover charge. The 2nd three and Final 6 pay their nickel to get in and wait on their first friend to arrive. And they wait. And they wait. And they wait.......

This is quite good -thanks.

polaris_x

ya ... except for the fact the first guy is getting $2 for every guy he brings to the bar and is writing off his bar tab ...

mikepegg44

Well, i couldn't listen, but I did get a chance to read the speech, here is a quote that sums it up for me

after talking about the cuts that the republicans wanted to make

"These are the kind of cuts that tell us we can’t afford the America we believe in"

Well...i think you said it Mr. President...we cannot afford the america you believe in... I cannot afford the life I dream about either...I am forced to live in the real world, unfortunately with the ability to simply print money, the federal government does not need to live in that world...


also, one question...did these tax cuts sneak up on President Obama? he is the one who put out his proposed budget, he is the one that wants to expand government reach, yet he talks about the tax cuts costing us money...how can something cost you money you never had? you never had it, you shouldn't have planned to have it...

maybe he is right about the rich paying more, maybe the top marginal tax rate should be 90%...does anyone really think that would solve the problem?

Jason P

Our government needs to show that they can cut spending before raising taxes. They couldn't do it in the last few weeks, what makes anyone believe that trillions of dollars will be saved over the next ten years under either Ryan's or Obama's plan?????? The bulk of the $38B in supposed cuts consisted of fudging accounting.

They can't stop spending. If they do cut funding to a program, an organization or corporation gets mad and that costs them votes and campaign donations.

They won't stop spending. But they will sell us a pipedream that everything will magically be fixed by 2020 if we just give them a little more money. Just a little more, that's all.

It's a wonder I even vote or follow the news.

inmytree

some of these responses remind me of another strong part of the speech....I can't recall the exact quote, but he spoke of "everyone wanting things, but no one is willing to pay"...

yup, that sounds right...

Godfather.

when ever a polition starts talking budget cuts lots of hard working Americans lose their jobs and nothing changes for the politions...so really who's budget is being cut ?


Godfather.

mikepegg44

inmytree wrote:

some of these responses remind me of another strong part of the speech....I can't recall the exact quote, but he spoke of "everyone wanting things, but no one is willing to pay"...

yup, that sounds right...

I don't want the government to pay for my healthcare, nor do I want them to pay for my retirement, they take plenty of money from us,

if they quit promising the moon they wouldn't have to buy it...

I wouldn't expect a solvent social security program from them if they didn't FORCE ME TO PAY INTO IT...

the only thing I agree with him on is that they need to simplify the tax code

If you want to continue to defend the man that is fine, but unfortunately the consequences of a leader who isn't serious about shrinking the deficit and paying the debt are going to be felt by all of us, not just those who support the behavior...Bush should have been enough for people to realize that constant deficit spending isn't okay and it will only lead to bigger problems...now that those problems are beginning to come to light what is our current president's solution is to keep increasing spending...that should take care of it...yep sounds like a good plan to me.

inlet13

There's no doubt it was both Bush and Obama that have contributed to this mess. It's also been congress. But, regardless of the blame game it is what it is... and it is the worst it's been. They need to do something about it.

This needs to be solved, they can't keep f'ing around and dodging the issue to get re-elected. This has the potential to literally destroy our country. It's not right that the people we elect are doing nothing about it.

I'm not normally passionate about this sort of stuff, but this issue is kind of driving me nuts. Why is it that Bob who works for Business A has to take a pay cut and Jane who works for Business B is laid off... because their companies made difficult decisions to cut costs.

Our government can do this. It's difficult and it sucks and someone's not going to be happy, but guess what... it needs to happen... and it can't wait.

Godfather.

"There's no doubt it was both Bush and Obama that have contributed to this mess. It's also been congress. But, regardless of the blame game it is what it is... and it is the worst it's been. They need to do something about it."

man how thing have changed in such a shot time,I remember when this forum was an obama support team
then slowly it started to turn around and now it's obama and bush are the bad guys..what a wild ride.


Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

inmytree wrote:

For the record, the repubs pushed for the extension and I think it was bullshit that he caved, I'm glad he's now planning letting the bush tax cuts expire...

i was going to post this but you beat me to it. funny how people do not remember how he reluctantly renewed the tax cuts for the RICH only as a compromise because the fucking republicans were holding a piece of legislation hostage and would not even vote on it until obama approved the tax cuts for the wealthiest one percent. was it the 9/11 first responders health care bill maybe? at any rate, these republicans only care about the rich and will do whatever they can to make sure that the rich are taken care of at the expense of the rest of us. cut medicare and medicaid so some millionaire gets to keep more of the money that he does not need..... :roll: if i were rich i would probably be a republican, but i am not, so republicans as a party do not have my interests at hand, so they will never ever get my vote.

and how is it a bad idea that to get out of debt you have to only cut spending and not increase revenue? what do individuals who are strugging financially do? they cut spending AND get a second job to increase the money in their pocket. the way i see it, the federal government has to do this as well. sure cut spending some, but also raise revenue via taxes on individuals AND corporations, who by the way seem to never ever pay taxes at all..... this is the easiest and most efficient way out of the current situation. and i am sorry. if you disagree with me on raising taxes i believe that you are 100% dead wrong. i think any reasonable person would say that you have to increase revenue AND cut spending.

puremagic

Understand that Congress, not the President, is responsible for working up the federal budget. The President’s speech was to let Congress know what he wants as part of the budget for America as a whole, what he is willing to negotiate on and what he will not negotiate on, and what will lead to a veto of a Budget, just like every other President.

Now it is up to the members of the Congressional parties to work out the differences of all those various Budget plans floating around Congress. The government is not going to stop spending so why can’t we demand that they start leveling the playing field a little?

1) The jobs are still going overseas

2) The corporate tax breaks haven’t even been address by any party

3) How much more can be squeezed out of the people who make less than $250,000, less than $80,000, less than $120,000 - $180,000. Many people making these salaries are two working parents.

--These figures don’t even qualify as appropriate bonuses at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi Bank, BP, Exxon, or Chrysler.

4) They’re freezing salaries

5) Consumer prices continue to rise

6) Add on fees are being assessed to every State and local services that we pay taxes to receive as a community, while they continue to layout public workers.

--Yet, companies like Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club who hire maybe 20 local workers are making minimum wages or 30 workers, some of which are part-time with no benefits receive State and local tax breaks.

7) Education is used as constant yo yo in every budget battle. They want people to be able to compete in the job market, yet they cut funding at every educational level to make it hard for people to achieve that education.

8) Medicaid and Medicare needs to be revamped because these programs are loaded with fraud, abuse, and redundancies.

-- Cuts without a serious look at revamping these programs won’t serve to benefit anyone and we’ll still be complaining about these programs 5 years from now. A voucher system would be a joke.

The deficit will be raised, the thing to watch is what will be lost, not cut, but lost.