President Obama's Speech
inlet13
Posts: 1,979
Is anyone else starting to get really annoyed with this guy? I respect him as a politician. He's a great speaker. He's obviously intelligent. But, his recent approach is absolutely ridiculous. The debt problem is real and it's not going away.
We have the IMF coming out saying "US has a credibility problem" when it comes to debt. In the first 6 months of this year, our deficit increased 16%. We are on the brink of being downgraded on our bonds.
This guy's plan is now to raise taxes on those who make over $250K. Let's start with that. Those who make over $250K pay roughly 50% of income taxes. Sure, that's a lot of money, but it's also f'ing people who pay most of our income taxes. That money could go elsewhere. Coming out of a recession, raising taxes is not (in my opinion the best logic).
Regardless, even if you disagree with that logic. I hope you'd admit, that this is the same guy who just signed in a law extending the tax cuts. Seriously? Now that the political wind has shifted, he's bringing this back up again? Dude, you just signed that in! Now you're saying that's your solution... to do the opposite of what you already did? Come on...
Why can't he focus on cutting "SPENDING"? Why do we need to continue to go back to "INCOME/REVENUES"?
Look at the situation like a household. If you are getting calls from collection agencies in regards to your credit, should you continue to spend? Obama continues to focus on revenues and not on spending. He responds to the collectors, "oh I have a plan, we'll bring in more money". Come on, spending needs to be reduced. This guy is really starting to bother me.
Even if tax revenues increase with raising taxes, why is his sole focus on that side of the equation? Can't he atleast outline his plans a bit better for cuts? Tell us what you will cut. The deficit has pushed national debt above 14 trillion.... Obama wants us to raise the debt ceiling... (for good reason, so we don't default on our debt)... Republicans want cuts in return for raising the debt ceiling... so, this speech is Obama's retort? Dodge the spending argument? You kidding?
We're Greece in waiting. We have debt through the roof. A very high unemployment rate. Today, CNBC came out and said if we used the methodology used in the 80s for the CPI, we'd have inflation at 10%. He's officially lost me now... I'm done with any backing I've given this idiot...
We have the IMF coming out saying "US has a credibility problem" when it comes to debt. In the first 6 months of this year, our deficit increased 16%. We are on the brink of being downgraded on our bonds.
This guy's plan is now to raise taxes on those who make over $250K. Let's start with that. Those who make over $250K pay roughly 50% of income taxes. Sure, that's a lot of money, but it's also f'ing people who pay most of our income taxes. That money could go elsewhere. Coming out of a recession, raising taxes is not (in my opinion the best logic).
Regardless, even if you disagree with that logic. I hope you'd admit, that this is the same guy who just signed in a law extending the tax cuts. Seriously? Now that the political wind has shifted, he's bringing this back up again? Dude, you just signed that in! Now you're saying that's your solution... to do the opposite of what you already did? Come on...
Why can't he focus on cutting "SPENDING"? Why do we need to continue to go back to "INCOME/REVENUES"?
Look at the situation like a household. If you are getting calls from collection agencies in regards to your credit, should you continue to spend? Obama continues to focus on revenues and not on spending. He responds to the collectors, "oh I have a plan, we'll bring in more money". Come on, spending needs to be reduced. This guy is really starting to bother me.
Even if tax revenues increase with raising taxes, why is his sole focus on that side of the equation? Can't he atleast outline his plans a bit better for cuts? Tell us what you will cut. The deficit has pushed national debt above 14 trillion.... Obama wants us to raise the debt ceiling... (for good reason, so we don't default on our debt)... Republicans want cuts in return for raising the debt ceiling... so, this speech is Obama's retort? Dodge the spending argument? You kidding?
We're Greece in waiting. We have debt through the roof. A very high unemployment rate. Today, CNBC came out and said if we used the methodology used in the 80s for the CPI, we'd have inflation at 10%. He's officially lost me now... I'm done with any backing I've given this idiot...
Here's a new demo called "in the fire":
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not sure what you wanted him to say...but it sounds as if no matter what he said, you'd be upset...
What exactly did he say that you thought was "pretty good"? His recycled argument on the Bush Tax Cuts he just extended a few months ago?
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yup, that was pretty good...
I thought he was correct in pointing out the Ryan plan was bullshit...so I found that "pretty good"...
Then, can you at least concede that this guy's plan is to do the opposite of what he did several months ago?
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:?
I'm not sure what you're asking...?
A few months ago he extended the Bush tax cuts. Now, he's saying he won't do that again. That's his plan to handle the debt crisis.... to not do again what he did a few months ago.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
For the record, the repubs pushed for the extension and I think it was bullshit that he caved, I'm glad he's now planning letting the bush tax cuts expire...
workin on another 4
thats ok by me.... he's as good as anybody and gives a pretty speech
MJ's song kept playing through my head though... "they don't really care about us"
catchy tune goes well with smoke screen
10 guys (and/or gals) go into a bar and buy a round of 10 beers for $20. 1 guy isn't trying to be a show off, but he knows he's got a little more discretionary money than his lifelong pals. So, he puts in $5. 3 other guys recognize they too are slightly better off (but not as much as their buddy that they are so very proud of for achieving great things so far in life) and put in $3 each. The last 6 guys throw down their $1's and huzzah's all around.
The bartender notices this and says to himself - wait a second. The "King" can certainly afford more and his court should share in his good fortune. After all, they're all in this together. They've been friends for life. So, he raises his price for the 10 beers to $32.
The first guy feels terrible about this. This is the same place he and all his buddies have been going since they were in college together, and he'd hate to lose his Friday nights with the boys. So, he throws down "only" 3 extra, as he's saving for his kids' college education and despite his great fortune, college is expensive. The 2nd 3 can't afford much more, but they willingly ask the remaining guys to split the rest. It's tight for everyone, but they all want the good time to keep rolling. And besides, if their very fortunate friend can put in another $3, they can at least put in another buck each. So now their paying:
First guy: $8
2nd Three: $4
Final 6: $2
One Friday night, the first guy leaves early because his wife is delivering their 3rd child. The last 9 stay and one of the Final 6 say - you know, when prices went up in this place, first guy only contributed another 60%, while we doubled our contribution. And you 2nd three got off even easier paying only another 33% more. And besides, that $8 is only 20% of his salary, while your $4 is 33% of yours and $2 is 50% of ours. I really think we need to reconsider how we’re splitting the tab.
So, the next week they propose a new structure that everyone pays the same % of their salary to the tab. So, now they are paying:
1st guy: $12.75
2nd three: $3.90
Final 6: $1.25 (about)
First guy says – ok, whatever. We’re friends. We’ll deal with it. But, again, after paying his tab he leaves, and the final 6 get to talking again. You know? Even with what he’s paying, he still has over $27 left in salary. That’s $23 more than any of us make IN TOTAL. It’s even $15 more than you 3 guys make! Hell! He should buy us peanuts, too.
So, the next week, the bill comes to this:
First guy $29 (he has to buy peanuts for everyone at $0.50 each, but he doesn’t buy himself any b/c they’ve been coming for years and didn’t need them, so why do they need them now. But, they're his friends, and if that’s what they want, that’s what they should have. Plus the bartender increased his prices, again!)
2nd three: $3.50
Final 6: Get their beer, peanuts and $0.25 to do with as they wish.
Everyone drinks up, and eats their peanuts.
They all come back next week, the bartender is now charging a cover charge. The 2nd three and Final 6 pay their nickel to get in and wait on their first friend to arrive. And they wait. And they wait. And they wait.......
This is quite good -thanks.
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
after talking about the cuts that the republicans wanted to make
"These are the kind of cuts that tell us we can’t afford the America we believe in"
Well...i think you said it Mr. President...we cannot afford the america you believe in... I cannot afford the life I dream about either...I am forced to live in the real world, unfortunately with the ability to simply print money, the federal government does not need to live in that world...
also, one question...did these tax cuts sneak up on President Obama? he is the one who put out his proposed budget, he is the one that wants to expand government reach, yet he talks about the tax cuts costing us money...how can something cost you money you never had? you never had it, you shouldn't have planned to have it...
maybe he is right about the rich paying more, maybe the top marginal tax rate should be 90%...does anyone really think that would solve the problem?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
They can't stop spending. If they do cut funding to a program, an organization or corporation gets mad and that costs them votes and campaign donations.
They won't stop spending. But they will sell us a pipedream that everything will magically be fixed by 2020 if we just give them a little more money. Just a little more, that's all.
It's a wonder I even vote or follow the news.
yup, that sounds right...
Godfather.
I don't want the government to pay for my healthcare, nor do I want them to pay for my retirement, they take plenty of money from us,
if they quit promising the moon they wouldn't have to buy it...
I wouldn't expect a solvent social security program from them if they didn't FORCE ME TO PAY INTO IT...
the only thing I agree with him on is that they need to simplify the tax code
If you want to continue to defend the man that is fine, but unfortunately the consequences of a leader who isn't serious about shrinking the deficit and paying the debt are going to be felt by all of us, not just those who support the behavior...Bush should have been enough for people to realize that constant deficit spending isn't okay and it will only lead to bigger problems...now that those problems are beginning to come to light what is our current president's solution is to keep increasing spending...that should take care of it...yep sounds like a good plan to me.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
This needs to be solved, they can't keep f'ing around and dodging the issue to get re-elected. This has the potential to literally destroy our country. It's not right that the people we elect are doing nothing about it.
I'm not normally passionate about this sort of stuff, but this issue is kind of driving me nuts. Why is it that Bob who works for Business A has to take a pay cut and Jane who works for Business B is laid off... because their companies made difficult decisions to cut costs.
Our government can do this. It's difficult and it sucks and someone's not going to be happy, but guess what... it needs to happen... and it can't wait.
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man how thing have changed in such a shot time,I remember when this forum was an obama support team
then slowly it started to turn around and now it's obama and bush are the bad guys..what a wild ride.
Godfather.
and how is it a bad idea that to get out of debt you have to only cut spending and not increase revenue? what do individuals who are strugging financially do? they cut spending AND get a second job to increase the money in their pocket. the way i see it, the federal government has to do this as well. sure cut spending some, but also raise revenue via taxes on individuals AND corporations, who by the way seem to never ever pay taxes at all..... this is the easiest and most efficient way out of the current situation. and i am sorry. if you disagree with me on raising taxes i believe that you are 100% dead wrong. i think any reasonable person would say that you have to increase revenue AND cut spending.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Now it is up to the members of the Congressional parties to work out the differences of all those various Budget plans floating around Congress. The government is not going to stop spending so why can’t we demand that they start leveling the playing field a little?
1) The jobs are still going overseas
2) The corporate tax breaks haven’t even been address by any party
3) How much more can be squeezed out of the people who make less than $250,000, less than $80,000, less than $120,000 - $180,000. Many people making these salaries are two working parents.
--These figures don’t even qualify as appropriate bonuses at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi Bank, BP, Exxon, or Chrysler.
4) They’re freezing salaries
5) Consumer prices continue to rise
6) Add on fees are being assessed to every State and local services that we pay taxes to receive as a community, while they continue to layout public workers.
--Yet, companies like Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club who hire maybe 20 local workers are making minimum wages or 30 workers, some of which are part-time with no benefits receive State and local tax breaks.
7) Education is used as constant yo yo in every budget battle. They want people to be able to compete in the job market, yet they cut funding at every educational level to make it hard for people to achieve that education.
8) Medicaid and Medicare needs to be revamped because these programs are loaded with fraud, abuse, and redundancies.
-- Cuts without a serious look at revamping these programs won’t serve to benefit anyone and we’ll still be complaining about these programs 5 years from now. A voucher system would be a joke.
The deficit will be raised, the thing to watch is what will be lost, not cut, but lost.
Let’s consider all the Democratic ideas the president managed to include in exchange for that provision, and the temporary (not permanent) extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich: an extension of the child-care tax credit, an extension of the earned income-tax credit, an extension of the college tuition tax credit, a year of unemployment benefits (more than they’d have gotten when the Republicans take control next month) and, most importantly, the bill includes payroll tax cuts that are universally considered to be the most stimulative kind of relief. In fact, most of the $858 billion package is directed toward middle-class families and constituencies that Democrats have planned to give relief to all along. This tax package is actually a pretty big liberal stimulus triumph.
Nuclear Arms Treaty with Russia. DADT repeal.
I also think it's funny how some of the people in here who prasied Paul Ryan(dickhead)for his budget proposal are now picking apart Obamas plan. I guess it's the (D) in front of his name.
Thank You President Obama for all your hard work! Don't let the turkeys get you down. Did I say turkeys? I meant to say "job creators."
Yes, Republicans pushed the extension and yes he caved. But, he did make the action. He was the one who signed it. It was him. It wasn't an impostor. He can't blame it on Bush. It was him. He extended it.
No offense, but you sound like a blind sheep in this post. Do you really live in a bubble where all Republicans are bad people who want to F the poor? Did you ever think that maybe there's a mix of both bad and good Republicans and Democrats. Maybe not everyone in the world lives in a bubble where everything the Democrats do is right even when they violate things they stood for before they were power (think extending Bush tax cuts, not raising the debt ceiling or getting involved in another war).
Sometimes between these two parties there's different points of view to get to an objective. You may believe that the Republican "way" is typically incorrect... fair enough. But, to put it simply, that side doesn't want the government in their pocket book ... a lot of people, even on the Democrat side can agree with that on occasion. I for one don't vote always in one direction... I find it silly to come here and debate this with some who are so evidently hypotized by either Fox (on the right) or MSNBC (on the left). Get your own opinion.
It's stupid to worry about revenue when you should stop spending first. I'll use the example I used before. If you are in deep credit problems, you should stop spending not increase it. Then, sure after that, maybe you can find ways to bring in more revenue... like get another job. If we keep going down this road, our credit cards (as a country) won't be worth squat. Look at Greece.... even closer, look at Illinois. Stores won't accept government credit cards because the state is f'ing broke and not good to pay it back.
Do I think raising tax revenue would help cut debt? Yes. Do I also think that the way the government goes about raising that revenue matters? Yes. If you raise the corporate tax as you suggested, that would NOT work in my opinion. We already have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. Our corporations are getting around this by using mailboxes in other countries with 15% tax rates. We would GAIN tax revenue by LOWERING our corporate tax rate! This is simple math ,,, is 35% (our corporate tax rate) times 100 companies more than 15% times 400 companies? No, it's not. You end up with more tax revenue by having companies pay taxes here and all be held to the same standards... no loop holes for GE (who backed Obama and paid 3% taxes) or the like under Republican administrations.
We need to focus on spending because politicians on both sides love to spend and buy votes. If we stop for a month or slow down for a month, that may mean they'll double it in a year. We need to focus on spending. That's where the focus should be for the foreseeable future.
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i completely disagree. the republicans, as a party, stick to their ideology and nothing else, and that is tax cuts, no interference in business, and stay out of people's lives unless you don't pray to jesus, unless it has to do with abortion and whether or not you love another man or another woman depending on your gender. if the dems do not habitually cave in and give up their position then NOTHING would ever get done. look at recent history. the only reason things get passed is because the dems "cave" like they always do. it is because they would rather get something done than nothing done i guess. to me it is cowardly, but hey, that is how they have always been the last 20 years. and if you are a republican who has a dissenting voice they marginalize you and ostracize you. look at what happened to ron paul in 2008. he was not allowed to debate, and when he did debate the gop establishment and their media outlet fox news scoffed and blew him off just like everyone blew off the guy from "the rent is too damn high party", and no i am not making any of this up, look at the governing agenda of the republicans, look at what they are doing. they are doing what they said they would do, the same old tired reaganomics that has failed for 30 years. i could go on about that but i don't feel like getting into this big bruhaha and researching and posting a shitload of links and debating with someone who obviously will not listen to what i have to say. what have the republicans done for you when they have been in power? do you make $250,000? i don't. and if you think that 400 major corporations pay the large taxes to this country you are fooling yourself. they get around it somehow and nobody holds the robber barons accountable. look at the defense companies like haliburton, kbr, and blackwater. i wonder how their books look....
i use your example of someone with credit card debt. speaking from personal experience, i got into a world of financial trouble and debt and not all of it was my fault. i cut my spending and my band began to play more shows and i even joined a second band because it was the fastest way to make serious enough money to get ouy of debt. i could not afford to live by stopping buying necessary items like food and gas to get to and from work without raising my income by playing extra shows. it works. trust me, that plan works. i got out of debt within 8 months as opposed to 8 years, so it can be done. simple mathematics says the fastest way out of debt is to make more money and spend less of it. so let me get this straight, are you willing to just fuck over the poor by cutting entitlements, fuck over the kids by cutting education funding? fuck over poor women by cutting funding to planned parenthood? fuck over the unemployed and the 99ers by cutting their benefits? if you are then do it your way. if you are pragmatic like me, if you are going to cut those things and penalize the poor you had better damn well raise taxes on the people who can afford it. we live in a society here and we can not continue that society with cutting all of these programs who have been there for the last 30-60 years and hurting th epoor while continually coddling the rich and big business by continuing to give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and corporations.. if we cut anything we should SIGNIFICANTLY cut defense first, then go from there. and as far as you implying that i am an msnbc sheep, read my posts. i post links from all over the world and i research and make up my own mind. that is more than i can say for a lot of people around here.. i do not watch msnbc because it is just as ludicrous for me to watch that as it would be for me to watch fox news. it is pretty shitty that i need to read and watch news from other countries to find out what is really going on...
oh yeah, and i liked the part of the speech where obama said that certain things would not happen as long as he is president and that certain things are wrong and unacceptable. unfortunately i do not believe him anymore. i agree with his tone, and i like his passion, but we all know what is going to happen.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Hey, you know what, I re-read my post and I should apologize for coming across as slightly condescending. That's my bad. I'm just frustrated.
Look, I realize you side with one point of view. I'm open to all points of view. But, I'll say this... I don't believe Obama is right on debt. I think he's dead wrong. I look at eastern Asian countries and see the ability to attract business. I see success in areas that have lower taxes (Ireland, Switzerland, some easter-asian countries). To me, it's common sense. If you are a business and you can locate where you want. Why would you locate in an area where you will have to pay the largest tax in the world? You wouldn't. You would try to get around it, so you wouldn't have to move. Which is happening now, they are dodging the taxes. Like I said, look at GE... what did they pay? 3%. That's in our country... a country with a 35% tax rate (Highest in the world). Anyway, they will continue to get around it because Obama and his like know if they enforce it... they will lose them completely. So, my point is lower the tax rate to be competitive. That way, corporations will stay, and we most likely will get even more investment in our country ,.... and MORE TAX REVENUE. Good. Corporations provide jobs, which is also good. Sure, some corporations are shitty... but, guess what they employ people. Government can't solve that without getting out of the way.
As for your band, I'll make a recommendation.... get another job outside of music part-time to keep yourself afloat. I wish everyone here, including yourself, the best. You are really good at your music (yes, I've listened and really say that as a compliment), so I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm just saying everyone needs to realize if they want to really do well financially, we can't always do what we love for our soul career. Sometimes, we don't get the breaks to make it our sole career.
Regardless, I wish you luck. I'm out of here (Moving Train). I can't stand these political debates. No offense to you or anyone in here, but to me, the people here seem to think you are more informed than a typical Pearl Jam fan or typical citizen.... and maybe, in a rare case, you aren't and you're simply dealing with a person with a different opinion who is just as informed (maybe even more so) that holds a DIFFERENT opinion... which is no better or worse than yours. At the end of the day, these are opinions... we are not politicians, afterall.
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Prior to 9/11 we spent less than 2 trillion in government spending (1.8). Since, then we've doubled it.
Let's get real. Doubling it... is more than keeping pace with inflation... especially since deflation occurred in 09.
Sorry... I'm out.
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wait....that has never ever ever ever happened.
the repbulicans, poor and middle class, lap it up though.....idiocy tastes great.
morons.
Obama's toxic speech and even worse plan for deficits and debt.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... on_LEADTop
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
my Idea is this, I agree with you but also I believe our politicians spend too much money on things that arn't necesary to the well being of the American people,too much money is spent on support of other country's , the US sends $billions to aid country's that keep the money and even food and medical supplies for the inner circles of their government leaving very little if any for the poor and starving in those country's, the US spends way too much supporting the Ileagel's that cross borders into this country,there is a lot that this country can do with out taxing the already over taxed American people, this country could also be more business frindly
doing more to support American owned business to keep jobs here rather then out-sourse to business over seas, the US can also drill for it's OWN oil rather than punnish the American people for the rising cost of forign
oil ...and that ECO shit don't fly me either,is o.k to drill in the middle east and and damage their eco system but not ours ? engage in a war over oil that will cost billion and more importantly human lives ?.
the US needs to stop kissing the worlds ass and save it self first so that we can be in a position to help other country's with out over taxing the American people to do it, and by the way there should stricter penelties for politicians that abuse their power..throw a few of them crooked bastards in the main stream population at a state run prision and not a federal prision with special protection,that will make em think twice.
that's my rant for the quarter.
Godfather.
you are right, it didn't start yesterday, but being a me first country isn't the problem. Government debt and spending affect the value of the dollar. Commodities prices are then affected by the value of that dollar, causing EVERYTHING to become more expensive. Because of the government, the dollar in my pocket today is worth less than yesterday.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan