oh, and also, I think the bigger problem is something you have brought up in the past -- is that there are some people who are on govt assistance for 5+ years. I think there needs to be some counciling or planning to help get these people off of it after a few years.
No they shouldn't, thats why I said earlier money should be taken away (deducted) from their checks as well as their children. You can use that money and put it into foster/adoption programs and take care of the kids, how kids should be taken care of (properly fed, clothed, bathed, school supplies) That way you are only punishing the people who are acting irresponsible.
I am sorry but innercity schools while not the best are not the issue. Education perperation comes from home and there is a reason why academic families/private schools succeed most in education, because those families make it a priority. Innercity school have to provide everything for students, which shouldn't be their job. Parents should be able to get school supplies for their kids. University education should be more affordable but we only have that to blame on ourselves, with this dexplosion of student loans that has caused the prices to colleges to rise.
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Because when you are at the schools like the one my wife is at, there is almost a yearly teacher turnover rate, None of the good teachers want to teach there. My wife has been assulted twice this year (chair thrown at her, arm slammed in doorway) Why would she want to teach there next year.
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Because when you are at the schools like the one my wife is at, there is almost a yearly teacher turnover rate, None of the good teachers want to teach there. My wife has been assulted twice this year (chair thrown at her, arm slammed in doorway) Why would she want to teach there next year.
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
teachers should not have to deal with that no matter where they work.
i'll turn the debate on it's ear. if your wife does not like working there or is unsafe working there, why doesn't she find another job? there are plenty of jobs out there that are easy to get, right?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Because when you are at the schools like the one my wife is at, there is almost a yearly teacher turnover rate, None of the good teachers want to teach there. My wife has been assulted twice this year (chair thrown at her, arm slammed in doorway) Why would she want to teach there next year.
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
teachers should not have to deal with that no matter where they work.
i'll turn the dabate on it's ear. if your wife does not like working there or is unsafe working there, why doesn't she find another job? there are plenty of jobs out there that are easy to get, right?
My wife has said it numerous times that just changing/impacting one of her students is fulfillment enough to continue there. The school have now implemented secutiry gards on each floor and "emergency phones" (mind you these are only 6th graders) I think if it gets to the point to where she fears going to school then she most certinly will look elsewhere. Also for her education there are very limited jobs to get out there. Now someone who has experience flipping burgers, there are many of those places that are cotinually hiring. Theres is a differences, you know that right?
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Because when you are at the schools like the one my wife is at, there is almost a yearly teacher turnover rate, None of the good teachers want to teach there. My wife has been assulted twice this year (chair thrown at her, arm slammed in doorway) Why would she want to teach there next year.
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
teachers should not have to deal with that no matter where they work.
They have to deal with it everywhere though. Schools have given up the right to discipline since liability is a huge factor. In my school district a teacher found a couple having sex in a classroom. She left and notified the principal. Ya know what he said? "Give them a few minutes, they should be done soon. We can't enforce rules around here or the parents will sue." That's what's going on in schools!
"The last thing we need is a poor and elderly population in bad health due to malnutrition. This is far more costly to us as a nation than the cost of food stamps (both in medical care and loss of resource.) Also, single elderly households make up a large majority of the food stamp population, so keep in mind that these are often folks living on a fixed social-security income."
"Having worked in the social services, arena, however, I felt that there was more than enough shame to go around in many instances, without feeling like people needed extra. Alot of the people receiving assistance weren't the classic "baby's mamma" or deadbeat from down the street. They were the foster kid that aged out of the system at age 19 with no jobs skills or self esteem. They were the widow of the soldier killed in Iraq... the mother of 5 with an inoperable brain tumor and a husband that was laid off when his job got sent to another country for cheaper labor... the retiree who just found out that her dead husband's pension package disappeared when the company he worked 40 years for went belly-up.
These folks weren't suffering "consequences" or their poor decisions. They just got stuck with a whole lot of life at one time. Many of them would have been able to get more help sooner if they hadn't have been made to feel ashamed. Most of them stayed on assistance for a season or two and moved on, grateful that all the tax money they pumped into the system for all those working years finally gave back to them in their time of need."
Just thought it might help for people to realize that its not the same everywhere.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
Wow, you sound like a real steward of humanity wishing ill will on people who have a differing opinion than you. And another old thread you wished my children would burn in a fire.
Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in, everything everybody says that opposes you is a sweeping generalization, and only the poor on welfare manage to work 2 or more jobs supporting a family.
I would much rather help the poor than just give them handouts. There is a big difference. Your breeding generations of entitlement. Thats not how you solve problems.
I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively.
All I am wishing for people, including you, is an education. It's not my fault that some people require a bigger knock on the head to learn things.
I NEVER, EVER wished your children would burn in a fire. EVER. You chose to misinterpret my statement at the time, and still, apparently.
I do look at things objectively, but objectivity & empathy are not mutually exclusive. And I do take things personally. I take things personally because it's MY fellow men, women, & children that your paternalistic ideals judge and, if implemented, would harm. It's the people of my community and the people I love. So, yeah, if you say we should take the food away from a child - ANY child - I'm going to take it personally. It's sad that you don't.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
If only you practiced what you preached... I've seen you being pretty mean to others on here.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
Wow, you sound like a real steward of humanity wishing ill will on people who have a differing opinion than you. And another old thread you wished my children would burn in a fire.
Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in, everything everybody says that opposes you is a sweeping generalization, and only the poor on welfare manage to work 2 or more jobs supporting a family.
I would much rather help the poor than just give them handouts. There is a big difference. Your breeding generations of entitlement. Thats not how you solve problems.
I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively.
All I am wishing for people, including you, is an education. It's not my fault that some people require a bigger knock on the head to learn things.
I NEVER, EVER wished your children would burn in a fire. EVER. You chose to misinterpret my statement at the time, and still, apparently.
I do look at things objectively, but objectivity & empathy are not mutually exclusive. And I do take things personally. I take things personally because it's MY fellow men, women, & children that your paternalistic ideals judge and, if implemented, would harm. It's the people of my community and the people I love. So, yeah, if you say we should take the food away from a child - ANY child - I'm going to take it personally. It's sad that you don't.
How would my ideas harm? If you have actually read my ideas in terms of punishment/regulations you would see that it would only benefit the children to get out of those areas and away from the terrible parents.
But won't having better schools help? I don't understand why in the United States, kids get a different PUBLIC school system simply because of where they were born. That's flat out unfair. Why don't some of the rich (public) schools 'spread the wealth' around. Here in Canada, I grew up in a pretty nice neighbourhood, big houses, in the suburbs. I'm proud to say that my education is almost exactly the same as those that live in inner city Toronto. Just seems fair.
Because when you are at the schools like the one my wife is at, there is almost a yearly teacher turnover rate, None of the good teachers want to teach there. My wife has been assulted twice this year (chair thrown at her, arm slammed in doorway) Why would she want to teach there next year.
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
Agreed there are problems, but why is there more money being given to some public schools than others? (Truly curious).
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
"The last thing we need is a poor and elderly population in bad health due to malnutrition. This is far more costly to us as a nation than the cost of food stamps (both in medical care and loss of resource.) Also, single elderly households make up a large majority of the food stamp population, so keep in mind that these are often folks living on a fixed social-security income."
"Having worked in the social services, arena, however, I felt that there was more than enough shame to go around in many instances, without feeling like people needed extra. Alot of the people receiving assistance weren't the classic "baby's mamma" or deadbeat from down the street. They were the foster kid that aged out of the system at age 19 with no jobs skills or self esteem. They were the widow of the soldier killed in Iraq... the mother of 5 with an inoperable brain tumor and a husband that was laid off when his job got sent to another country for cheaper labor... the retiree who just found out that her dead husband's pension package disappeared when the company he worked 40 years for went belly-up.
These folks weren't suffering "consequences" or their poor decisions. They just got stuck with a whole lot of life at one time. Many of them would have been able to get more help sooner if they hadn't have been made to feel ashamed. Most of them stayed on assistance for a season or two and moved on, grateful that all the tax money they pumped into the system for all those working years finally gave back to them in their time of need."
Just thought it might help for people to realize that its not the same everywhere.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
If only you practiced what you preached... I've seen you being pretty mean to others on here.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
Wow, you sound like a real steward of humanity wishing ill will on people who have a differing opinion than you. And another old thread you wished my children would burn in a fire.
Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in, everything everybody says that opposes you is a sweeping generalization, and only the poor on welfare manage to work 2 or more jobs supporting a family.
I would much rather help the poor than just give them handouts. There is a big difference. Your breeding generations of entitlement. Thats not how you solve problems.
I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively.
Also, what the fuck does "I know you're a woman and all" mean?? :?
If only you practiced what you preached... I've seen you being pretty mean to others on here.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
No hypocrisy here. Even if "_" came across as mean, does that really equate to what she was discussing here, which is starving children?
mean vs. starving are two very different things.
All I am wishing for people, including you, is an education. It's not my fault that some people require a bigger knock on the head to learn things.
I NEVER, EVER wished your children would burn in a fire. EVER. You chose to misinterpret my statement at the time, and still, apparently.
I do look at things objectively, but objectivity & empathy are not mutually exclusive. And I do take things personally. I take things personally because it's MY fellow men, women, & children that your paternalistic ideals judge and, if implemented, would harm. It's the people of my community and the people I love. So, yeah, if you say we should take the food away from a child - ANY child - I'm going to take it personally. It's sad that you don't.
How would my ideas harm? If you have actually read my ideas in terms of punishment/regulations you would see that it would only benefit the children to get out of those areas and away from the terrible parents.
Let me get this straight, then: You want to take away the welfare that pays for people's children's food, and plan to also take all those kids away from their parents & put them in foster care, and use the money you saved on welfare to pay for the foster care system, right? And you're saying this is necessarily the best thing for the children? I just want to be sure I'm clear on your ideas here.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
No hypocrisy here. Even if "_" came across as mean, does that really equate to what she was discussing here, which is starving children?
mean vs. starving are two very different things.
If only you practiced what you preached... I've seen you being pretty mean to others on here.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
When someone is mean or harmful to me or others (especially children) and I respond strongly, I don't think that's hypocritical. It's especially not hypocritical when you consider the historical context of the people to whom I am supposedly "mean". I put up with a lot of shit from a lot of people for a long time before losing my patience with them and responding in kind. But, as you said, I don't need to explain myself to you anyway.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
When someone is mean or harmful to me or others (especially children) and I respond strongly, I don't think that's hypocritical. It's especially not hypocritical when you consider the historical context of the people to whom I am supposedly "mean". I put up with a lot of shit from a lot of people for a long time before losing my patience with them and responding in kind. But, as you said, I don't need to explain myself to you anyway.
Karma can be a bitch. Watch what you write, don't take everything so personally! Learn to walk away if someone is mean to you. The way you react is your karma.
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
No hypocrisy here. Even if "_" came across as mean, does that really equate to what she was discussing here, which is starving children?
mean vs. starving are two very different things.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
I am aware, (it wouldnt let me embed 3 quotes).. But if you look back, she was defending the idea that some kids need govt assistance and that they shouldnt suffer from their parents misfortunes.. this is a sidetrack and has nothing to do with the discussion anyways. come on really.. bring up that someone came across as mean in the past?
Maybe try to see where her passion came from -- and recognize that its just hard to digest the lack of understanding that reducing welfare could make tons of KIDS suffer. Thats how i saw it at least.
Here are some of Blockhead's quotes from the thread with my thoughts:
"I am only pointing out personal experiences that I /my wife have had (her working in a inner city school)"
This is really the central theme to blockheads thinking, and it's unfortunate. Please stop drawing broad conclusions and generalizations from your own personal experience. 13 million kids live in poverty in the U.S., and you are building a belief system about those kids based on stories from your wife's work and the range of your vision. Each family and each person has a story. Don't take a handful of story and make it several million.
"I am sorry but there is NO sense of community in inner city/ poor areas. But I think if you start having them be responsible for thier property/children/own needs everything else comes relatively easy."
The first sentence is an ignorant generalization and shows you lack of connecting with others who live in the inner city. In you second sentence you've just solved years of struggle and decline that many cities have gone through. Pat yourself on the back, get the word out, and start saving our cities!
"Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in"
Clearly, to the people reading this, we're finding out who needs to learn more about the world.
"I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively."
I did a double take on this one. Hopefully, you were just baiting. If not, I feel bad for your wife.
"I don't THINK, I have SEEN, big difference."
While this one is out of context and 'think' in the sentence was synonymous with opinion, I thought it was revealing, nonetheless. You are building constructs on seeing, but you also need to do more thinking.
"explosion of student loans that has caused the prices to colleges to rise."
This one I'd like to see backed up with some facts.
"Sorry don't watch the news, I get my information from my personal experiences and my wife working in a innercity school making house visits. So i am not sure how I have a flawed view of the poor?"
You need to get factual information about the poor and not just draw conclusions from personal experiences. Read about things, expose yourself to sociological theories that are related to factual information. Do you know that less than 20% of the money spent on welfare is cash payment? You talk as though is closer to 80%.
You also will be helped with personal experiences, but do so with attempting to listen and understand the person's story as an individual. See it from their perspective. Your experience is not there experience. Don't apply your life lessons of success that may have worked for you and apply it to them. Question your beliefs and conclusions about 'personal responsibility'.
If I had to guess, I would say your 24 or 25 years old and, therefore, hopefully not too rigid in your thinking. Allow for some flexibility in your world views. Gather facts, read other theories, separate facts from opinions and beliefs. Most importantly, connect with other people that are different than you.
Don't apply your life lessons of success that may have worked for you and apply it to them. Question your beliefs and conclusions about 'personal responsibility'.
You make some excellent points GoBeavers. I especially think this^^^
This is really the central theme to blockheads thinking, and it's unfortunate. Please stop drawing broad conclusions and generalizations from your own personal experience. 13 million kids live in poverty in the U.S., and you are building a belief system about those kids based on stories from your wife's work and the range of your vision. Each family and each person has a story. Don't take a handful of story and make it several million.
13 million kids live in poverty in the U.S., and you are building a belief system about those kids based on What? What you've read in a book??? I am sorry But I don't take a "handful of stories" My wife works at a school (with 85% free lunches/ weekend power packs), do you think her school has a "handfull" of kids or do you think there are hundreds, Year and Year she makes house visits, thats a little more than a "handfull". If 99% of the students you teach year after year (parents) are abusing the system and wanting their kids to be declaired "disabled" so they can recieve more money Its hard to fathom its suddenly different everywhere else. Like you and others point out, everywhere else in the U.S. they are just hard working 2-3 job single parents who are on welfare...
The first sentence is an ignorant generalization and shows you lack of connecting with others who live in the inner city. In you second sentence you've just solved years of struggle and decline that many cities have gone through. Pat yourself on the back, get the word out, and start saving our cities!
If innercities have such a great sense of community then why does the murder and crime rate increase every year? I am not sure how that is a generalization. Would you say that the areas in the US that have the highest crime and murder rate are areas with a good sense of community? Simple community service will bring on a sense of community. It has been proven that just adding vegetation to innercity areas has reduced/will reduce crime. So a conclusion I draw from that is that "If" they actually took care of their public/own housing then you will see a better community with reduced crime/murder.
Clearly, to the people reading this, we're finding out who needs to learn more about the world.
Yes clearly, you draw your conclusions from a book and I draw mine from interaction witht he people :roll:
I did a double take on this one. Hopefully, you were just baiting. If not, I feel bad for your wife.
It was clearly a joke towards SCB, we have a past and I knew It would excite her.
While this one is out of context and 'think' in the sentence was synonymous with opinion, I thought it was revealing, nonetheless. You are building constructs on seeing, but you also need to do more thinking.
What are you building your constructs on? I don't know anything where reading trumps interaction.
This one I'd like to see backed up with some facts.
Its pretty simples actually, The student loan industry rakes in $85 billion a year, and a significant sum of that is in government subsidy and tax considerations. Student loans increase the number of students who can attend school, which causes a rise in tuition because they have to up the fees in every aspect of the university. I am sure there is something you can look up on google.
You need to get factual information about the poor and not just draw conclusions from personal experiences. Read about things, expose yourself to sociological theories that are related to factual information. Do you know that less than 20% of the money spent on welfare is cash payment? You talk as though is closer to 80%.
You also will be helped with personal experiences, but do so with attempting to listen and understand the person's story as an individual. See it from their perspective. Your experience is not there experience. Don't apply your life lessons of success that may have worked for you and apply it to them. Question your beliefs and conclusions about 'personal responsibility'.
If I had to guess, I would say your 24 or 25 years old and, therefore, hopefully not too rigid in your thinking. Allow for some flexibility in your world views. Gather facts, read other theories, separate facts from opinions and beliefs. Most importantly, connect with other people that are different than you.
You want some factual information about the poor. Here is my state OHIO.
The income limit (max) per family ( of 3) in Ohio is $734.00 a month to recieve welfare benefits. Lets break that down to 4 weeks and that comes out to $183.5 a week. Now I will give them benefit of the doubt and say its a single mother raising two children. If she works a measly 40 hours a week that comes to an hourly wage of $4.5. Now minimum wage in Ohio is $7.30. So before when I pointed out that they should be doing community service while on welfare to help the community I was blasted and TOLD that welfare recipients work 2 jobs (also another excuse for why their children do bad in school, because the parent is not there). If a person worked 2 jobs at minimum wage to equate 40 hours a week then they would not be eligible to recieve welfae. Also money spent on welfare is CASH, It says it right on Ohio's website "monthly cash payment" Food stamps are on a voucher/card. You also need to factor things in that they don't have to pay for such as daycare/healthcare/. So when I go on house visits with my wife and see some of the things that I see (material items much nicer than what I have) I question how they can have the money to get that, while their child as my wife tells me is wearing the same clothes on a weekly basis and hasn't had a bath in a week.
I get angry/passionate about thsi because believe it or not, i probably care about the kids more than anyone else here. As a father of 2 its hard to hear my wifes stories day in and day out. I have said before but I buy with my own money (that could / should be going to my kids) all the 6th grade school supplies because 90% of the parents think its the schools job to buy notebooks/backpacks/pencils/paper, etc.
You are close on my age and my thinking is alway sevolving but "theories" I doubt will change my mind when I am continuallied faced with the stories and interactions I have through my wifes work. If you are so concerned about theiories do you think the currect way of just giving money is changing anything. Or do you think that maybe a focus on responsibility and consequences through regulation my have some of these people striving for a better life?
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
When someone is mean or harmful to me or others (especially children) and I respond strongly, I don't think that's hypocritical. It's especially not hypocritical when you consider the historical context of the people to whom I am supposedly "mean". I put up with a lot of shit from a lot of people for a long time before losing my patience with them and responding in kind. But, as you said, I don't need to explain myself to you anyway.
Karma can be a bitch. Watch what you write, don't take everything so personally! Learn to walk away if someone is mean to you. The way you react is your karma.
The thing is no one was even mean to her, It was just an emotional response. It is the definition of hypocritical.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I truly hope karma is real. Some people have a lot to learn about the world - and humanity.
Wow, you sound like a real steward of humanity wishing ill will on people who have a differing opinion than you. And another old thread you wished my children would burn in a fire.
Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in, everything everybody says that opposes you is a sweeping generalization, and only the poor on welfare manage to work 2 or more jobs supporting a family.
I would much rather help the poor than just give them handouts. There is a big difference. Your breeding generations of entitlement. Thats not how you solve problems.
I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively.
Also, what the fuck does "I know you're a woman and all" mean?? :?
SCB... We have a past, I was clearly trying to EXCITE you... Did it work?
Let me get this straight, then: You want to take away the welfare that pays for people's children's food, and plan to also take all those kids away from their parents & put them in foster care, and use the money you saved on welfare to pay for the foster care system, right? And you're saying this is necessarily the best thing for the children? I just want to be sure I'm clear on your ideas here.
Let me get this straight, you care about kids so much and you start wishing ill will on people, yet you are perfectly fine with parents/parent raising kids they can't even feed/cloth/provide shelter?
Yes I think in the best intrest of the child that if a couple have a child they can't provide the basic needs for, then there should be a program that takes care of that child until the parents can adequately provide for that child.
Comments
Also you need to put some responsibility on the kids, You can't make the kids want to lean if that is not reinforced at home.
i'll turn the debate on it's ear. if your wife does not like working there or is unsafe working there, why doesn't she find another job? there are plenty of jobs out there that are easy to get, right?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him. "
— Abraham Lincoln
"You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
— Abraham Lincoln
"You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence"
— Abraham Lincoln
"If this country is ever demoralized, it will come from trying to live without work."
— Abraham Lincoln
"The worst thing you can do for anyone
you care about is anything that they can do on their own."
— Abraham Lincoln
Yep.... quite the guy!
http://www.wisebread.com/should-you-be- ... assistance
"The last thing we need is a poor and elderly population in bad health due to malnutrition. This is far more costly to us as a nation than the cost of food stamps (both in medical care and loss of resource.) Also, single elderly households make up a large majority of the food stamp population, so keep in mind that these are often folks living on a fixed social-security income."
"Having worked in the social services, arena, however, I felt that there was more than enough shame to go around in many instances, without feeling like people needed extra. Alot of the people receiving assistance weren't the classic "baby's mamma" or deadbeat from down the street. They were the foster kid that aged out of the system at age 19 with no jobs skills or self esteem. They were the widow of the soldier killed in Iraq... the mother of 5 with an inoperable brain tumor and a husband that was laid off when his job got sent to another country for cheaper labor... the retiree who just found out that her dead husband's pension package disappeared when the company he worked 40 years for went belly-up.
These folks weren't suffering "consequences" or their poor decisions. They just got stuck with a whole lot of life at one time. Many of them would have been able to get more help sooner if they hadn't have been made to feel ashamed. Most of them stayed on assistance for a season or two and moved on, grateful that all the tax money they pumped into the system for all those working years finally gave back to them in their time of need."
Just thought it might help for people to realize that its not the same everywhere.
All I am wishing for people, including you, is an education. It's not my fault that some people require a bigger knock on the head to learn things.
I NEVER, EVER wished your children would burn in a fire. EVER. You chose to misinterpret my statement at the time, and still, apparently.
I do look at things objectively, but objectivity & empathy are not mutually exclusive. And I do take things personally. I take things personally because it's MY fellow men, women, & children that your paternalistic ideals judge and, if implemented, would harm. It's the people of my community and the people I love. So, yeah, if you say we should take the food away from a child - ANY child - I'm going to take it personally. It's sad that you don't.
Yeah, you know what... I'm just REALLY sick of people's shit. And I'm pretty sure I'm never "mean" to anyone who wasn't "mean" to me or someone else first. I'm direct in what I say and I make no apologies for that.
Thanks for that bit of perspective. :thumbup:
No need to explain yourself, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
Also, what the fuck does "I know you're a woman and all" mean?? :?
No hypocrisy here. Even if "_" came across as mean, does that really equate to what she was discussing here, which is starving children?
mean vs. starving are two very different things.
Let me get this straight, then: You want to take away the welfare that pays for people's children's food, and plan to also take all those kids away from their parents & put them in foster care, and use the money you saved on welfare to pay for the foster care system, right? And you're saying this is necessarily the best thing for the children? I just want to be sure I'm clear on your ideas here.
When someone is mean or harmful to me or others (especially children) and I respond strongly, I don't think that's hypocritical. It's especially not hypocritical when you consider the historical context of the people to whom I am supposedly "mean". I put up with a lot of shit from a lot of people for a long time before losing my patience with them and responding in kind. But, as you said, I don't need to explain myself to you anyway.
I am aware, (it wouldnt let me embed 3 quotes).. But if you look back, she was defending the idea that some kids need govt assistance and that they shouldnt suffer from their parents misfortunes.. this is a sidetrack and has nothing to do with the discussion anyways. come on really.. bring up that someone came across as mean in the past?
Maybe try to see where her passion came from -- and recognize that its just hard to digest the lack of understanding that reducing welfare could make tons of KIDS suffer. Thats how i saw it at least.
"I am only pointing out personal experiences that I /my wife have had (her working in a inner city school)"
This is really the central theme to blockheads thinking, and it's unfortunate. Please stop drawing broad conclusions and generalizations from your own personal experience. 13 million kids live in poverty in the U.S., and you are building a belief system about those kids based on stories from your wife's work and the range of your vision. Each family and each person has a story. Don't take a handful of story and make it several million.
"I am sorry but there is NO sense of community in inner city/ poor areas. But I think if you start having them be responsible for thier property/children/own needs everything else comes relatively easy."
The first sentence is an ignorant generalization and shows you lack of connecting with others who live in the inner city. In you second sentence you've just solved years of struggle and decline that many cities have gone through. Pat yourself on the back, get the word out, and start saving our cities!
"Sadly you don't know jack shit about the world we live in"
Clearly, to the people reading this, we're finding out who needs to learn more about the world.
"I know your a woman and all but quit taking things so personal. Try looking at things objectively."
I did a double take on this one. Hopefully, you were just baiting. If not, I feel bad for your wife.
"I don't THINK, I have SEEN, big difference."
While this one is out of context and 'think' in the sentence was synonymous with opinion, I thought it was revealing, nonetheless. You are building constructs on seeing, but you also need to do more thinking.
"explosion of student loans that has caused the prices to colleges to rise."
This one I'd like to see backed up with some facts.
"Sorry don't watch the news, I get my information from my personal experiences and my wife working in a innercity school making house visits. So i am not sure how I have a flawed view of the poor?"
You need to get factual information about the poor and not just draw conclusions from personal experiences. Read about things, expose yourself to sociological theories that are related to factual information. Do you know that less than 20% of the money spent on welfare is cash payment? You talk as though is closer to 80%.
You also will be helped with personal experiences, but do so with attempting to listen and understand the person's story as an individual. See it from their perspective. Your experience is not there experience. Don't apply your life lessons of success that may have worked for you and apply it to them. Question your beliefs and conclusions about 'personal responsibility'.
If I had to guess, I would say your 24 or 25 years old and, therefore, hopefully not too rigid in your thinking. Allow for some flexibility in your world views. Gather facts, read other theories, separate facts from opinions and beliefs. Most importantly, connect with other people that are different than you.
You make some excellent points GoBeavers. I especially think this^^^
The income limit (max) per family ( of 3) in Ohio is $734.00 a month to recieve welfare benefits. Lets break that down to 4 weeks and that comes out to $183.5 a week. Now I will give them benefit of the doubt and say its a single mother raising two children. If she works a measly 40 hours a week that comes to an hourly wage of $4.5. Now minimum wage in Ohio is $7.30. So before when I pointed out that they should be doing community service while on welfare to help the community I was blasted and TOLD that welfare recipients work 2 jobs (also another excuse for why their children do bad in school, because the parent is not there). If a person worked 2 jobs at minimum wage to equate 40 hours a week then they would not be eligible to recieve welfae. Also money spent on welfare is CASH, It says it right on Ohio's website "monthly cash payment" Food stamps are on a voucher/card. You also need to factor things in that they don't have to pay for such as daycare/healthcare/. So when I go on house visits with my wife and see some of the things that I see (material items much nicer than what I have) I question how they can have the money to get that, while their child as my wife tells me is wearing the same clothes on a weekly basis and hasn't had a bath in a week.
I get angry/passionate about thsi because believe it or not, i probably care about the kids more than anyone else here. As a father of 2 its hard to hear my wifes stories day in and day out. I have said before but I buy with my own money (that could / should be going to my kids) all the 6th grade school supplies because 90% of the parents think its the schools job to buy notebooks/backpacks/pencils/paper, etc.
You are close on my age and my thinking is alway sevolving but "theories" I doubt will change my mind when I am continuallied faced with the stories and interactions I have through my wifes work. If you are so concerned about theiories do you think the currect way of just giving money is changing anything. Or do you think that maybe a focus on responsibility and consequences through regulation my have some of these people striving for a better life?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yes I think in the best intrest of the child that if a couple have a child they can't provide the basic needs for, then there should be a program that takes care of that child until the parents can adequately provide for that child.