nice post. i've read books and seen some documentaries on this theory. there seems to be no phsyical evidence to prove that it wasn't a suicide, but i think no one can really no for sure. there is certainly some interesting points to suggest he may have been murdered. that said....this quote from you..."Plus, why would someone intent on killing him and trying to pass it off as a suicide, bother to use a gun when they could have just injected him with a massive dose of heroin and been done with it? Use of a gun would have meant the alleged murderer would have needed to have knowledge of forensic stuff like blood spatter."...very interesting. i don't think i've ever heard that brought up, or maybe i did and just forgot about it. but it's a great point.
Yeah people forget the technical stuff like blood spatter. If someone wanted to shoot him and make it look like a suicide, presumably one or two people would have had to hold him up while he was struggling, put the gun in his mouth, pull the trigger, and then hope that none of them were standing in the direction of blood spatter or blood flow. And all of this would obviously have been pretty last minute, since Kurt left the rehab centre of his own volition and flew back to Seattle on a time frame that he decided.
Since his death was initially investigated as a possible murder, any inconsistencies in forensic aspects of the death scene would have been heavily scrutinised - yet nothing inconsistent was found.
Yeah, I think it was suicide. The heroin thing...I think it would make perfect sense for him to get high before doing it. And, I have no personal experience with heroin, but he probably had a high tolerance and wasn't to the incapacitated, comatose stage so I don't think any levels would automatically rule out suicide. Plus, the suicide note...it just all points to suicide. It was sad, and it was a terrible thing. It makes me sad to know that he was that unhappy and disillusioned.
courney was cheating on kurt and he was going to get a divorce before he was shot
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
"In "Kurt and Courtney", Love's father claimed that on Kurt's birthday in February 20th 1994, Love was cheating on Cobain in London with Billy Corgan, lead singer of The Smashing Pumpkins (7). Cross, however, uses language to imply that Love was merely on promotional business in London, and avoids stating that Love did in fact meet Corgan at all. When he quotes Cobain as being suicidal a few days later (and Kurt did in fact make a very serious attempt not even two weeks later) because Love had cheated on him with Corgan, Cross follows this accusation with the word "allegedly", in a pathetic and transparent attempt to try to deflect criticism from Love.
By April 1st 1994, four days before his suicide, Cobain had returned to his home in Seattle. On this date, the nanny of the house, "Cali" spoke to Love by telephone, who was still in Los Angeles. The story that Cross recants (from Love) is that Cali failed to mention that Cobain was back at home, so she scoured heroin dealers in LA for Cobain, and in the event, injected some, and was therefore incapacitated and unable to co-ordinate the search properly."
Courtney did hook up with Corgan after Kurt's death as well. Hell they even wrote an album together. Maybe finding out about her cheating is what caused him to attempt his first suicide.
Post edited by PJammer4life on
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
"In "Kurt and Courtney", Love's father claimed that on Kurt's birthday in February 20th 1994, Love was cheating on Cobain in London with Billy Corgan, lead singer of The Smashing Pumpkins (7). Cross, however, uses language to imply that Love was merely on promotional business in London, and avoids stating that Love did in fact meet Corgan at all. When he quotes Cobain as being suicidal a few days later (and Kurt did in fact make a very serious attempt not even two weeks later) because Love had cheated on him with Corgan, Cross follows this accusation with the word "allegedly", in a pathetic and transparent attempt to try to deflect criticism from Love.
By April 1st 1994, four days before his suicide, Cobain had returned to his home in Seattle. On this date, the nanny of the house, "Cali" spoke to Love by telephone, who was still in Los Angeles. The story that Cross recants (from Love) is that Cali failed to mention that Cobain was back at home, so she scoured heroin dealers in LA for Cobain, and in the event, injected some, and was therefore incapacitated and unable to co-ordinate the search properly."
Courtney did hook up with Corgan after Kurt's death as well. Hell they even wrote an album together. Maybe finding out about here cheating is what caused him to attempt his fisrt suicide.
that makes it even more tragic. She knew how fragile he was. But dag they were both messed up. She wasn't a bright one, that girl.
The amount of heroin in his system has been debated for a long time, and there is no conclusive answer as to whether he would have been capable of pulling the trigger or not. Experts have never been in agreement, some say they have seen people manage to keep it together on even larger doses.
The credit card use has also been attributed to one of his junkie friends, if he was gonna kill himself why would he care who had it, perhaps it was stolen?
The room baricaded - no conclusive proof ever given on that one.
The suicide note - handwriting experts are not all in agreement as to whether the second part was his writing or not. It is perfectly possible that he wrote the last part AFTER the huge dose of heroin he shot up, which would account for the sloppy writing.
So none of the points you brought up are really 'scientific evidence', or even common sense for that matter.
If Courtney Love had the personality of say Dave Grohl, and was a bit out spoken, a little bit cheeky but overall quite likable, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
and your big shred of "scientific" evidence is that he was sad all the time. Yeah, great conclusion.
Look, I'll say it AGAIN. I never said I believe she did it. I'm just posing the question, ok? And thanks for the little dig at the end, buddy, the common sense comment, real nice.
And you assume that I don't like Courtney. Where did I say that?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and furthermore, FP, you are so quick to discredit all of my evidence, yet every single one you state it is inconclusive either way. so you can't prove it either, can you? you are basing your conclusion that it was suicide simply because it was not proven otherwise.
yeah, the cops ruled it a suicide. great. and cops didn't completely fuck up the OJ invesitgation, either right, so we should think that all cops are perfect.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Since his death was initially investigated as a possible murder, any inconsistencies in forensic aspects of the death scene would have been heavily scrutinised - yet nothing inconsistent was found.
again, another assumption based on no actual knowledge (unless maybe you were on that forensics team and failed to mention it). can you not admit it's POSSIBLE that he was killed, or do you 100% completely believe he did it himself because "the cops said so"?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and your big shred of "scientific" evidence is that he was sad all the time. Yeah, great conclusion.
Look, I'll say it AGAIN. I never said I believe she did it. I'm just posing the question, ok? And thanks for the little dig at the end, buddy, the common sense comment, real nice.
And you assume that I don't like Courtney. Where did I say that?
Apologies, the common sense comment was a bit rude, it came more out of frustration, and the fact that while you're saying you're not sure either way, your comments kind of indicated otherwise. Regardless, I am sorry if I upset you.
I'll try and address all the points you've brought up, without quoting every single one, to try and save a little space.
First up, my "big shred of "scientific" evidence" isn't that he was sad all the time. Let's try and look at this objectively.......
The scientific or factual evidence would be the death scene. The police say it was initially investigated as a murder - no surprise there, I would imagine that it is quite routine in the case of an apparent suicide, to rule out any foul play. Presumably the the forensic aspects all overwhelmingly pointed towards suicide, i.e the position of the body and gun, trajectory of the blood spatter, no voids in that spatter which would indicate another person was in the room at the time of death. Again, these would be quite routine observations and the exact things they would be looking for when investigating the possibility of murder.
Now your question about police reliability. It's not so much a case as taking what they say as the truth, so much as there not being ANY real factual evidence to the contrary, particularly relating to the physicality of his death. There were no reported signs of struggle, which you would imagine there would be if someone was forceably injected with a potentially lethal amount of heroin. Think about it, he would have had to have been pinned down whilst somebody found a vein to inject him in, whilst he was struggling. Then he would have had to have been held in position by the alleged killers whilst they put the gun in his mouth, in such a way that it would still look like suicide.
See it's all very well to be suspicious about the details of his death, but THIS is essentially what people are proposing, and it just doesn't seem very plausible. Add into that, that Kurt bought the gun that killed him, and that he went awol which meant nobody knew exactly where he would be anyway, and the proposal becomes even more far fetched, in that at least two if not more people would have had to have been waiting with this perfectly planned murder, people with forensic knowledge who would know how to throw the police off. Really, it just doesn't stack up.
Let's look at what we do know to be true about Kurt.
1. He had talked about suicide before, and from a very young age.
2. According to a family member he was diagnosed as bipolar - statistically speaking there is a significantly increased risk of suicide amongst sufferers.
3. His family and friends were so concerned by his mental condition and drug addiction that they staged an intervention to get him into rehab.
4. He had a documented fascination with guns.
5. He Bought the gun that killed him
6. He left rehab of his own volition, what were his options at that point? Return to the family and friends who essentially put him in rehab and just refuse to get off the heroin? The pressure on him was immense, a lot of people relied on him - Courtney, Frances, his band mates, his mother, his fans - but he was consumed by his addiction.
To me, the above is pretty compelling stuff, and certainly far more COMMON SENSE than a conspiracy theory built on circumstantial evidence which has never even been varified.
The scientific or factual evidence would be the death scene. The police say it was initially investigated as a murder - no surprise there, I would imagine that it is quite routine in the case of an apparent suicide, to rule out any foul play. Presumably the the forensic aspects all overwhelmingly pointed towards suicide, i.e the position of the body and gun, trajectory of the blood spatter, no voids in that spatter which would indicate another person was in the room at the time of death. Again, these would be quite routine observations and the exact things they would be looking for when investigating the possibility of murder.
Now your question about police reliability. It's not so much a case as taking what they say as the truth, so much as there not being ANY real factual evidence to the contrary, particularly relating to the physicality of his death. There were no reported signs of struggle, which you would imagine there would be if someone was forceably injected with a potentially lethal amount of heroin. Think about it, he would have had to have been pinned down whilst somebody found a vein to inject him in, whilst he was struggling. Then he would have had to have been held in position by the alleged killers whilst they put the gun in his mouth, in such a way that it would still look like suicide.
See it's all very well to be suspicious about the details of his death, but THIS is essentially what people are proposing, and it just doesn't seem very plausible. Add into that, that Kurt bought the gun that killed him, and that he went awol which meant nobody knew exactly where he would be anyway, and the proposal becomes even more far fetched, in that at least two if not more people would have had to have been waiting with this perfectly planned murder, people with forensic knowledge who would know how to throw the police off. Really, it just doesn't stack up.
Let's look at what we do know to be true about Kurt.
1. He had talked about suicide before, and from a very young age.
2. According to a family member he was diagnosed as bipolar - statistically speaking there is a significantly increased risk of suicide amongst sufferers.
3. His family and friends were so concerned by his mental condition and drug addiction that they staged an intervention to get him into rehab.
4. He had a documented fascination with guns.
5. He Bought the gun that killed him
6. He left rehab of his own volition, what were his options at that point? Return to the family and friends who essentially put him in rehab and just refuse to get off the heroin? The pressure on him was immense, a lot of people relied on him - Courtney, Frances, his band mates, his mother, his fans - but he was consumed by his addiction.
To me, the above is pretty compelling stuff, and certainly far more COMMON SENSE than a conspiracy theory built on circumstantial evidence which has never even been varified.
your first point is about blood spatter: maybe I don't know a whole lot about the physics of this, but just because someone else would be in the room, would not automatically mean there is a void in the spatter, correct? I mean, spatter trajectory does not always cover the 360 degrees of any given space, depending on how the person was shot.
the next point of the forceable heroin injections I cannot argue with. It would be very difficult to do. how do we know that it was forceable. he was obviously so fucked up all the time, and if the murderer was someone close to him, they probably just waited for him to incapaciate HIMSELF and then do the rest to seal the deal.
however, your 6 numbered point are all circumstantial. so your whole basis for your conclusion is the forceable heroin injection and his personal mental state. I'd say, in all honesty, is pretty weak. just because we can't fathom how it would be done, doesn't mean it couldn't have been.
there are so many other points that also point to it being a murder. your story about the junkie friend that had his credit card? never substatiated, as far as I know. I had heard that Kurt was about to file for divorce, but I also don't know if that can be confirmed or not. It's hard to know just readin it at Tom Grant's site. As I said before, many of his "facts" are suspect.
I wouldn't call your conclusion "common sense", I'd call it the easy solution.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
your first point is about blood spatter: maybe I don't know a whole lot about the physics of this, but just because someone else would be in the room, would not automatically mean there is a void in the spatter, correct? I mean, spatter trajectory does not always cover the 360 degrees of any given space, depending on how the person was shot.
If somebody was holding him up whilst another person put a gun in his mouth and he was resisting, they would have had to have made damn sure that nobody was in the way of the blood spatter, let's not forget this is a one time thing - you don't get a second chance at directing that blood.
the next point of the forceable heroin injections I cannot argue with. It would be very difficult to do. how do we know that it was forceable. he was obviously so fucked up all the time, and if the murderer was someone close to him, they probably just waited for him to incapaciate HIMSELF and then do the rest to seal the deal.
So what if Kurt hadn't left rehab, would this mystery person who was close to him still have been sitting there in Kurt's home poised with a syringe in case he came home? What was the point in the intervention? Leave him to O.D and this time don't save him, why bother with the mess a gun makes? Seems utterly senseless.
however, your 6 numbered point are all circumstantial. so your whole basis for your conclusion is the forceable heroin injection and his personal mental state. I'd say, in all honesty, is pretty weak. just because we can't fathom how it would be done, doesn't mean it couldn't have been.
I didn't say it wasn't circumstantial, but it also paints a very bleak picture. You know you could create an alternative explanation for any supposed murder, even the most black and white, 100% dna evidence kind of case - the lab could have mixed up samples etc. Given the severity of his mental state, the sheer logistics of staging his death as a suicide and the fact that nobody could really say when and where he would have been at any given time, I would say it's a very logical conclusion.
there are so many other points that also point to it being a murder. your story about the junkie friend that had his credit card? never substatiated, as far as I know. I had heard that Kurt was about to file for divorce, but I also don't know if that can be confirmed or not. It's hard to know just readin it at Tom Grant's site. As I said before, many of his "facts" are suspect.
I wouldn't call your conclusion "common sense", I'd call it the easy solution.
Strangely enough I actually came at it from the same direction as you a few years back. I read Tom Grant's site and my heart sank - I really didn't know what to believe. At some point I looked into it again, and given time to think it occured to me that I had been a bit naive. And as I read through it all again, I realised I had absolutely no reason to believe that this guy was necessarily telling the truth. He could have created this stuff up literally out of thin air for all I know.
As a side note, I find it almost amusing that the source of the information on the lethal heroin dose was apparently the coroner, via a journalist no less! This being one of the corner stones of the conspiracy argument - so it's ok to take the word of an investigator when it supports the argument, but when they say that their investigation was thorough and that they were content with the suicide verdict, suddenly it's questionable.
Strangely enough I actually came at it from the same direction as you a few years back. I read Tom Grant's site and my heart sank - I really didn't know what to believe. At some point I looked into it again, and given time to think it occured to me that I had been a bit naive. And as I read through it all again, I realised I had absolutely no reason to believe that this guy was necessarily telling the truth. He could have created this stuff up literally out of thin air for all I know.
As a side note, I find it almost amusing that the source of the information on the lethal heroin dose was apparently the coroner, via a journalist no less! This being one of the corner stones of the conspiracy argument - so it's ok to take the word of an investigator when it supports the argument, but when they say that their investigation was thorough and that they were content with the suicide verdict, suddenly it's questionable.
well, this is not something that is new to me. I didn't just discover Tom Grant. I found his website and his POV a long time ago. I just recently revisited it because of this topic.
I don't think it's naive to question it. There you go again with your pedestal talk.
I also am very willing to admit I don't know all the facts of the case. I hadn't heard where the lethal does report came from, nor does it make any difference. I never said the police didn't do their job. My point is it's POSSIBLE they didn't, that they didn't do a completely proper investigation because of his celebrity. I'm sure the cops in the OJ case were also very competent during "routine" double homicides, if there is such a thing, but when the world is watching a whole new dynamic comes into play.
I'm just saying it's POSSIBLE, that's it, nothing more.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
well, this is not something that is new to me. I didn't just discover Tom Grant. I found his website and his POV a long time ago. I just recently revisited it because of this topic.
I don't think it's naive to question it. There you go again with your pedestal talk.
That's not what I meant, there you go on the defensive again. I meant it was naive of me to just take the alternative story as fact just because it seemed convincing.
I also am very willing to admit I don't know all the facts of the case. I hadn't heard where the lethal does report came from, nor does it make any difference. I never said the police didn't do their job. My point is it's POSSIBLE they didn't, that they didn't do a completely proper investigation because of his celebrity. I'm sure the cops in the OJ case were also very competent during "routine" double homicides, if there is such a thing, but when the world is watching a whole new dynamic comes into play.
I'm just saying it's POSSIBLE, that's it, nothing more.
Well ANYTHING is possible in theory, but in reality it just seems highly unlikely.
We're talking about Kurt Cobain, right? The guy who wrote a song, and wanted to name an album, "I Hate Myself and Want to Die"?
Yeah. He offed himself. The conspiracy is interesting for sure, but it doesn't pass the smell test. I used to believe in the conspiracy but I just don't anymore. The more I read of Kurt, the more that I'm a firm believer that he did kill himself. Courtney is fucked up, money hungry and probably, at times, an evil bitch...but murderer or co-conspirator...no
Comments
Yeah people forget the technical stuff like blood spatter. If someone wanted to shoot him and make it look like a suicide, presumably one or two people would have had to hold him up while he was struggling, put the gun in his mouth, pull the trigger, and then hope that none of them were standing in the direction of blood spatter or blood flow. And all of this would obviously have been pretty last minute, since Kurt left the rehab centre of his own volition and flew back to Seattle on a time frame that he decided.
Since his death was initially investigated as a possible murder, any inconsistencies in forensic aspects of the death scene would have been heavily scrutinised - yet nothing inconsistent was found.
me too..........
............ and the murderers name is kurt cobain.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
EV Solo: 7/11/11 11/12/12 11/13/12
By April 1st 1994, four days before his suicide, Cobain had returned to his home in Seattle. On this date, the nanny of the house, "Cali" spoke to Love by telephone, who was still in Los Angeles. The story that Cross recants (from Love) is that Cali failed to mention that Cobain was back at home, so she scoured heroin dealers in LA for Cobain, and in the event, injected some, and was therefore incapacitated and unable to co-ordinate the search properly."
Courtney did hook up with Corgan after Kurt's death as well. Hell they even wrote an album together. Maybe finding out about her cheating is what caused him to attempt his first suicide.
and your big shred of "scientific" evidence is that he was sad all the time. Yeah, great conclusion.
Look, I'll say it AGAIN. I never said I believe she did it. I'm just posing the question, ok? And thanks for the little dig at the end, buddy, the common sense comment, real nice.
And you assume that I don't like Courtney. Where did I say that?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
yeah, the cops ruled it a suicide. great. and cops didn't completely fuck up the OJ invesitgation, either right, so we should think that all cops are perfect.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
again, another assumption based on no actual knowledge (unless maybe you were on that forensics team and failed to mention it). can you not admit it's POSSIBLE that he was killed, or do you 100% completely believe he did it himself because "the cops said so"?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Apologies, the common sense comment was a bit rude, it came more out of frustration, and the fact that while you're saying you're not sure either way, your comments kind of indicated otherwise. Regardless, I am sorry if I upset you.
I'll try and address all the points you've brought up, without quoting every single one, to try and save a little space.
First up, my "big shred of "scientific" evidence" isn't that he was sad all the time. Let's try and look at this objectively.......
The scientific or factual evidence would be the death scene. The police say it was initially investigated as a murder - no surprise there, I would imagine that it is quite routine in the case of an apparent suicide, to rule out any foul play. Presumably the the forensic aspects all overwhelmingly pointed towards suicide, i.e the position of the body and gun, trajectory of the blood spatter, no voids in that spatter which would indicate another person was in the room at the time of death. Again, these would be quite routine observations and the exact things they would be looking for when investigating the possibility of murder.
Now your question about police reliability. It's not so much a case as taking what they say as the truth, so much as there not being ANY real factual evidence to the contrary, particularly relating to the physicality of his death. There were no reported signs of struggle, which you would imagine there would be if someone was forceably injected with a potentially lethal amount of heroin. Think about it, he would have had to have been pinned down whilst somebody found a vein to inject him in, whilst he was struggling. Then he would have had to have been held in position by the alleged killers whilst they put the gun in his mouth, in such a way that it would still look like suicide.
See it's all very well to be suspicious about the details of his death, but THIS is essentially what people are proposing, and it just doesn't seem very plausible. Add into that, that Kurt bought the gun that killed him, and that he went awol which meant nobody knew exactly where he would be anyway, and the proposal becomes even more far fetched, in that at least two if not more people would have had to have been waiting with this perfectly planned murder, people with forensic knowledge who would know how to throw the police off. Really, it just doesn't stack up.
Let's look at what we do know to be true about Kurt.
1. He had talked about suicide before, and from a very young age.
2. According to a family member he was diagnosed as bipolar - statistically speaking there is a significantly increased risk of suicide amongst sufferers.
3. His family and friends were so concerned by his mental condition and drug addiction that they staged an intervention to get him into rehab.
4. He had a documented fascination with guns.
5. He Bought the gun that killed him
6. He left rehab of his own volition, what were his options at that point? Return to the family and friends who essentially put him in rehab and just refuse to get off the heroin? The pressure on him was immense, a lot of people relied on him - Courtney, Frances, his band mates, his mother, his fans - but he was consumed by his addiction.
To me, the above is pretty compelling stuff, and certainly far more COMMON SENSE than a conspiracy theory built on circumstantial evidence which has never even been varified.
your first point is about blood spatter: maybe I don't know a whole lot about the physics of this, but just because someone else would be in the room, would not automatically mean there is a void in the spatter, correct? I mean, spatter trajectory does not always cover the 360 degrees of any given space, depending on how the person was shot.
the next point of the forceable heroin injections I cannot argue with. It would be very difficult to do. how do we know that it was forceable. he was obviously so fucked up all the time, and if the murderer was someone close to him, they probably just waited for him to incapaciate HIMSELF and then do the rest to seal the deal.
however, your 6 numbered point are all circumstantial. so your whole basis for your conclusion is the forceable heroin injection and his personal mental state. I'd say, in all honesty, is pretty weak. just because we can't fathom how it would be done, doesn't mean it couldn't have been.
there are so many other points that also point to it being a murder. your story about the junkie friend that had his credit card? never substatiated, as far as I know. I had heard that Kurt was about to file for divorce, but I also don't know if that can be confirmed or not. It's hard to know just readin it at Tom Grant's site. As I said before, many of his "facts" are suspect.
I wouldn't call your conclusion "common sense", I'd call it the easy solution.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If somebody was holding him up whilst another person put a gun in his mouth and he was resisting, they would have had to have made damn sure that nobody was in the way of the blood spatter, let's not forget this is a one time thing - you don't get a second chance at directing that blood.
So what if Kurt hadn't left rehab, would this mystery person who was close to him still have been sitting there in Kurt's home poised with a syringe in case he came home? What was the point in the intervention? Leave him to O.D and this time don't save him, why bother with the mess a gun makes? Seems utterly senseless.
I didn't say it wasn't circumstantial, but it also paints a very bleak picture. You know you could create an alternative explanation for any supposed murder, even the most black and white, 100% dna evidence kind of case - the lab could have mixed up samples etc. Given the severity of his mental state, the sheer logistics of staging his death as a suicide and the fact that nobody could really say when and where he would have been at any given time, I would say it's a very logical conclusion.
Strangely enough I actually came at it from the same direction as you a few years back. I read Tom Grant's site and my heart sank - I really didn't know what to believe. At some point I looked into it again, and given time to think it occured to me that I had been a bit naive. And as I read through it all again, I realised I had absolutely no reason to believe that this guy was necessarily telling the truth. He could have created this stuff up literally out of thin air for all I know.
As a side note, I find it almost amusing that the source of the information on the lethal heroin dose was apparently the coroner, via a journalist no less! This being one of the corner stones of the conspiracy argument - so it's ok to take the word of an investigator when it supports the argument, but when they say that their investigation was thorough and that they were content with the suicide verdict, suddenly it's questionable.
well, this is not something that is new to me. I didn't just discover Tom Grant. I found his website and his POV a long time ago. I just recently revisited it because of this topic.
I don't think it's naive to question it. There you go again with your pedestal talk.
I also am very willing to admit I don't know all the facts of the case. I hadn't heard where the lethal does report came from, nor does it make any difference. I never said the police didn't do their job. My point is it's POSSIBLE they didn't, that they didn't do a completely proper investigation because of his celebrity. I'm sure the cops in the OJ case were also very competent during "routine" double homicides, if there is such a thing, but when the world is watching a whole new dynamic comes into play.
I'm just saying it's POSSIBLE, that's it, nothing more.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That's not what I meant, there you go on the defensive again. I meant it was naive of me to just take the alternative story as fact just because it seemed convincing.
Well ANYTHING is possible in theory, but in reality it just seems highly unlikely.
Yeah. He offed himself. The conspiracy is interesting for sure, but it doesn't pass the smell test. I used to believe in the conspiracy but I just don't anymore. The more I read of Kurt, the more that I'm a firm believer that he did kill himself. Courtney is fucked up, money hungry and probably, at times, an evil bitch...but murderer or co-conspirator...no
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm