Open Letter to Tim Bierman on the EV Presale Absurdity

JAlbano

An Open Letter to Tim Bierman and the 10 Club Technical Team:

I have been a 10C member since 1993 and hold the band and the 10C up as a shining example of how our last great American rock institution sets the bar far and above any other artist or entity on how to respect, appreciate and treat their true fans.

That is until presale ticket days and the website shenanigans we are all forced to go through. Like everyone else who I'm sure experienced the insanity of today's presale meltdown and all the contributors to the "EV Presale BS" thread... I also spent two hours of my life in pure agony today as I sat glued to my computer screen and battled the never ending war against error screens, face ripped off screens, broken pages and eternal working screens only to have my dream of flying from Miami to see Eddie play the Beacon Theatre in NYC smashed to slowly tortured pieces after finally...finally getting through all the mess and having a pair of tickets in my cart, my credit card info entered and that beautiful final SUBMIT button pushed...and 5 paralyzing minutes later with the screen still "working" I get a message that the server can't find the site and it when it takes me back to my cart another 3 minutes later...of course, its EMPTY...plus I get the added insult of an error message telling ME that I took too long and my tickets were removed because the time had expired. I TOOK TOO LONG? Seriously?? I mean, SERIOUSLY? This is somehow MY fault? What a crock of fucking bullshit. The tickets were essentially ripped right out of my hands and given to someone else who I'm sure endured a similar experience, but in all fairness stole my seats. And all of this because of a server and a site that can never seem to handle the inevitable traffic the people who run it MUST know is coming on days like today.

I remember back in the Vitalogy Health Club days and filling out my ticket order form by hand, writing that fat check for all the shows at once and mailing it in an ENVELOPE (remember those?) and then sending it off to Seattle - and miracle of miracles...I got my fanclub seats to every show, every time...without a hitch. Of course I realize this model is unrealistic now and I'm sure was backbreaking work for the team at the 10C but trust me, most of us long for those days now when dealing with the website and feeling like instead of valued, longtime fans we're just all hopeful lotto number holders hoping and praying we get a shot at the golden ticket with about as much chance as winning the powerball it seems.

What is the frakking deal 10C? How can we be 20 years into worshiping the greatest band on earth and now paying a $40 membership fee to be super VIP "Analog" members (which of course I did and willingly) and we still can't get a ticket buying system for your most dedicated fans that isn't a bonafide exercise in mental torture only to result in the majority of us STILL ending up without any tickets to show for it? There just HAS to be a better solution - we live in an age where sites can take in and spit out unfathomable amounts of data and there is just absolutely no way that the 10C website can't afford to take part in some of that advanced storage and some seriously more capable technology.

I felt the need to expound on this, the most crucial and veritably fatal flaw of our beloved 10 Club here in the fan forum because today was just another of many compounded experiences I've had with this system and I couldn't not say anything. This has got to be the first order of business in improving things for 2011 and beyond. You have to know what you are doing to fans like me and how brutally unfair it is to those of us who feel like seeing the live shows are the ultimate expression of our love for the music and our connection to the band and to be denied that connection when we've been here since the beginning...well, it's a big fat bummer to say the least.

Thanks for reading my rant - I hope someone takes notes and we all get to benefit from a new and improved ticket buying process in the very, very near future. We love the folks at the 10C and we appreciate all that you do for us, but the time is now to fix this problem once and for all. For now i guess it's the nose-bleeds through ticketmaster (if I'm lucky...again) or spending a chunk of my savings and selling a piece of my soul to deal with the scalping vultures.

I hope some of you fared better than me and I'll see you in NY in June.

ahill721

Very well said! I had the same thing happen with my Chicago tickets! I had them in my cart, gotball the way to entering my credi card info and I'm taken to a screen that says my time expired and my tickets were dropped. I went from the utmost rush of excitement, too devastating tears in the matter of 3 minutes. I agree that something needs to change. I went from having tickets to a show I feel I must attend to downright upset.

electronic_dreams

Tim - if the servers can't handle the traffic (which appears to be what the issue is), why not outsource the ticket purchasing/transacting to someone who can?

Sure you'll pay a small fee, but didn't you just put the price of memberships up?

Then if there are issues, you blame the provider and remain the good guy?

Fastrichie

Same here w/ the Beacon 6/22 show. Had them in my cart-$171 for the pair. Entered my CC info and got a message saying I took to long. Checked my cart and they were gone. Also got a message asking what size I wanted or something along those lines!!!

mcgruff10

don't ever remember sending out one big check for all shows. in fact 95, 96, 98 and 2000 you were allowed only one show per tour. '03 you had to send out individual index cards for each show.

you need to realize there was maybe 200 pairs of tickets per show (at the most!)

and understand we aren't guarantted the best seats in the house for ev shows; so give ticketmaster a shot on friday like the rest of the world. you still can get tickets plus 10c is going to send out a pre sale e mail any minute.

and it s an ev show, if you really want to you'll be able to get a ticket.

xsmytx

I'm going to try Ticketmaster!!

I had tickets in my cart over 30 times today, I tried for 5 different shows, I entered my CC info at least 10 times, and had no luck..I find it very odd that there were less people on the boards today then the supposed amount of tickets available and this many people got shut out.. Something does not add up.

It wasn't as bad last year for the MSG shows as it was today, and there was over 300 more people on the site that day.

jomama356

Out of curiousity i went on stubhub and there are 50 tickets to the tower theater in philly for sale. Am I just naive or what because I thought the e-mail stated that the "ten club" frowned upon resale of tickets. Also I thought the tickets were to be picked up at will call night of the show. How can someone sell the tickets if the "ten club member" must pick the tickets up at will call. Can someone please explain this to me? I haven't been a member that long but I thought this was a stand up club. Oh well, I guess there are somethings that are all about the money. I just didn't think this was the club or the band to do so!!

JAlbano

mcgruff10 wrote:

don't ever remember sending out one big check for all shows. in fact 95, 96, 98 and 2000 you were allowed only one show per tour. '03 you had to send out individual index cards for each show.

you need to realize there was maybe 200 pairs of tickets per show (at the most!)

and understand we aren't guarantted the best seats in the house for ev shows; so give ticketmaster a shot on friday like the rest of the world. you still can get tickets plus 10c is going to send out a pre sale e mail any minute.

and it s an ev show, if you really want to you'll be able to get a ticket.

Thanks mcgruff10 - I'm quite aware that if I want to get a ticket, I most likely can and will through other avenues. I'm not complaining about getting the best seats in the house or in anyway think that no other tickets will exist in the universe for me to get to those shows - just venting on the stress we have to go through to get a shot at what should be a big part of why we pay our dues and remain loyal 10Club members for all these years. And I do know about the limited amount of tickets and all that goes into the presales...I've been around the block a few times. The letter and my issues are about the larger picture and problem at hand... the obvious frustrations it causes the fans with an otherwise stellar operation the 10C is running. But live shows are it...the jelly, the jam, the bees knees, the end all be all for us, as you must agree and this system and the site is flawed at it's core and that's what I was trying to get across. Plus this is just my personal opinion and of course you are welcome to yours.

Thanks for your comment, as unhelpful as it may be.

Wilds

jomama356 wrote:

Out of curiousity i went on stubhub and there are 50 tickets to the tower theater in philly for sale. Am I just naive or what because I thought the e-mail stated that the "ten club" frowned upon resale of tickets. Also I thought the tickets were to be picked up at will call night of the show. How can someone sell the tickets if the "ten club member" must pick the tickets up at will call. Can someone please explain this to me? I haven't been a member that long but I thought this was a stand up club. Oh well, I guess there are somethings that are all about the money. I just didn't think this was the club or the band to do so!!

Season ticket holders at those venues contract their seats out to stubhub etc. I would guess that none of the 2nd hand tickets came from ten club members today...... although once in a while you can find some ass trying to unload some. It is easy to spot as that person can't say exactly where the seats are.

gypsygurrl

Here, here JAlbano! I couldn't agree with you more. I've been ranting all day (to the intense dismay of all those within earshot) so I'll simply say I share your frustration and crushing disappointment. Well said, and thank you for saying it.

Gary Carter

gypsygurrl wrote:

Here, here JAlbano! I couldn't agree with you more. I've been ranting all day (to the intense dismay of all those within earshot) so I'll simply say I share your frustration and crushing disappointment. Well said, and thank you for saying it.

cool tats

thats all i gotta say

awilk99

Jalbano, you took the words right out of my mouth! although I am sad and frustrated for all of us today who did not get tickets, I take some comfort in knowing im not alone. for a minute I thought it was my stupid blackberry..had to sneak it while at work..the things we do for this man! I too had tickets in my cart, finally after 35 mins of trying to only have them emptied cause I took too long..ha didnt know hitting submit meant taking too long. No I too will be forced to endure ticketmaster or dare I say a scalper. cause there is no way Eddie will be ten blocks from me and I dont see him!
Perhaps the wonderful people at the 10c will have mercy on us and send us a miracle..cause I believe in miracles!
Good luck to everyone..and here's to a great tour!

JAlbano

gypsygurrl wrote:

Here, here JAlbano! I couldn't agree with you more. I've been ranting all day (to the intense dismay of all those within earshot) so I'll simply say I share your frustration and crushing disappointment. Well said, and thank you for saying it.

Thanks gypsygurrl! My friends and family have heard it before too and as supportive as they are they still wanted me to shut it eventually so I figured the best way to get it out would be to write that shiz down and then the proverbial floodgates opened as you can see! Glad to know I'm not the only one and thanks for all the cool comments everyone! Maybe they'll listen to us at some point after all, right?

boyo79

Why do people bother with a 10C pre-sale? Why not just wait for general sale a couple of days later?

Everytime theres a pre-sale, chaos reigns people have tickets then don't and then there's a billions threads complaining. And then after the show people complain about their 10C seats and how people got better seats through Ticketmaster et al. So why go through 10C for your tickets????

Maybe 10C should bring in a new system where everyone gets a chance to apply for whatever gig they want over a day or so and then a few days later a ballot is done and the lucky ones find out if they got tickets. Its the system thats being done for the 2012 Olympics. There's a 2 month period I think where you get to apply for what events you want and then after the deadline has passed you find out which ones you were successful with. This seems a good idea and maybe one 10C should think about it.

dimitrispearljam

i dont understand this im at the fan club since 92 and didnt get tickets..you have the same rights with the rest 79423 paid members...the same with a guy become member last month....you pay the same money as a new member....cos your are a member before others you have a low membership number and get better seats than a new member in the venue..thats it..and its fair..
after said that ..all of you have to understand that try to score 1 of the 100 pairs 10c has the same time 1000 members try to do the same will be a problem....last year the same happen to PJ MSG tickets and the same time kansas and indiana tickets was up for days..
as for the servers,im not a specialist but this had it in my card and lost them is an issue must 10c have to find a way to solve it..

mcgruff10

well said dimi. ed ved is a hot ticket with a very limited amount of tickets. it sucks i agree; i've been shut out to a few shows but i've always been able to find a 10c ticket. good luck

JE79371

Well said. I rarely chime in here, but I agree that it is absurd for people to have to go through this. It's not about feeling entitled to tickets. A lottery and a simple "you got tickets" or "sorry, you didn't get tickets" answer would be such an improvement. There is a de facto lottery right now, which is whether the technical gods work in your favor, with the added insult of people refreshing screens at their computer for hours repeatedly thinking they have tickets and then realizing they don't. The 10 Club can do better.

ahill721

I am not bitching about the flux of people wanting tickets, what I am disappointed in is that once in your cart, once you have submitted info including CC info, how do the servers drop your order. If I didn't get them I didn't get them, but to have them in your cart, hurry through the process and losing them due to servers not handling the mass of members is disappointing, and something I believe 10c can solve.

Heisenberg

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont understand this im at the fan club since 92 and didnt get tickets..you have the same rights with the rest 79423 paid members...the same with a guy become member last month....you pay the same money as a new member....cos your are a member before others you have a low membership number and get better seats than a new member in the venue..thats it..and its fair..
after said that ..all of you have to understand that try to score 1 of the 100 pairs 10c has the same time 1000 members try to do the same will be a problem....last year the same happen to PJ MSG tickets and the same time kansas and indiana tickets was up for days..
as for the servers,im not a specialist but this had it in my card and lost them is an issue must 10c have to find a way to solve it..

As always...Dimitris is the voice of reason

pepperpotred

Ahhhh, yes. The same damn thing happened to me today. Had them in my cart, went through the entire ordering process, entered my credit card info, hit submit, then nothing. It kept throwing me back to the billing/shipping address page, so I kept trying to re-do my order, but after an hour of that, I quit. What a bummer. Their servers CANNOT handle these presales. PJ should look at the DMB method of presales where there is an ordering period of about a week where you can pick shows you want to go to and submit your orders. After the week long ordering period shuts down, you find out if you got tickets or not. It's a much less hectic way of doing these presales.

Get_Right

Since its an open letter:

Tim, keep it the way it is.
I dont want the distribution of tickets to be mysterious or random. The direct sale is fair and at the end of the day, some people get through, some dont.

Be nice if you could fix the crash problem, but understand if it is not financially reasonable to do so.
Yeah the dropping of carts, checkout loops, ripped faces and failed transactions is a drag, but if you are persistent and patient, the success rate is pretty good. Except for NYC that is.

Doggystylen

yeah its tough to bitch because we all love th eband so much, and there is not too many better things in life than the excitement leading up to a concert, and the actual concert. And if you've seen EV's solo performance, than you'd understand.

I would be happier to pay 10c $1000 per ticket, instead of some scalper $500. Understand everybodies gotta make a buck, and I''ve had to sell a ticket here or there for above asking price. But by paying for a membership, this should get us a better system to buy tickets. Websites, Servers, software is cheap now vs 10 years ago.

so bottom line is, some scalper will be getting my $300 per ticket for phili. I'm flying from toronto to see him, and a friend from london...thats how good the concert will be.

I'm confident 10c will change things around next time, maybe its time, might be the same software they had when PJ begun! LOL..............

glad somebody else is bithcing...i sent 10c a friendly letter yesterday about all this shite, and i'm sure i'm not the only one...

MoonTurtle

Or sell one show per day

-decodified-

MoonTurtle wrote:

Or sell one show per day

+1

or 2 per day max... that will help the traffic...

TuckerKatt

Just because you weren't able to get tickets doesn't mean the system is flawed or the 10C servers can't handle the traffic or whatever theory you've come up with for why you didn't get tickets. There are a very limited number of tickets available. No matter what system is used a lot of people are going to get shut out. If it was changed to a lottery system then all of the lottery losers would complain about how unfair the lottery is, it's rigged, etc. As long as 10C sells tickets there will be plenty of people complaining about how unfair it all is.

It's not reasonable to compare the Ed ticket process to the mail-in process for PJ shows from the Vitalogy Health Club days. Back then there were fewer members, more shows, and more seats available per show. Apples and oranges.

Basically everyone wants a system in which THEY get tickets.

RyGuy

TuckerKatt wrote:

Just because you weren't able to get tickets doesn't mean the system is flawed or the 10C servers can't handle the traffic or whatever theory you've come up with for why you didn't get tickets. There are a very limited number of tickets available. No matter what system is used a lot of people are going to get shut out. If it was changed to a lottery system then all of the lottery losers would complain about how unfair the lottery is, it's rigged, etc. As long as 10C sells tickets there will be plenty of people complaining about how unfair it all is.

It's not reasonable to compare the Ed ticket process to the mail-in process for PJ shows from the Vitalogy Health Club days. Back then there were fewer members, more shows, and more seats available per show. Apples and oranges.

Basically everyone wants a system in which THEY get tickets.

+1

Amen, brother.

JAlbano

TuckerKatt wrote:

Just because you weren't able to get tickets doesn't mean the system is flawed or the 10C servers can't handle the traffic or whatever theory you've come up with for why you didn't get tickets. There are a very limited number of tickets available. No matter what system is used a lot of people are going to get shut out. If it was changed to a lottery system then all of the lottery losers would complain about how unfair the lottery is, it's rigged, etc. As long as 10C sells tickets there will be plenty of people complaining about how unfair it all is.

It's not reasonable to compare the Ed ticket process to the mail-in process for PJ shows from the Vitalogy Health Club days. Back then there were fewer members, more shows, and more seats available per show. Apples and oranges.

Basically everyone wants a system in which THEY get tickets.

What we are taking issue with are the unnerving tech issues with the site NOT the amount of tickets they make available or a sense of entitlement towards seats or shows. But when you actually are a lucky one to get through and have a pair of tix in your cart and make it all the way to the purchase stage and your cc is processing and purely because of the site's tech problems you lose your order and then have absolutely no recourse...well I for one don't think that's something that should continue to go unchecked. People posting on this thread talking like those of us who've had that experience numerous times and want to have it talked about as a real issue as part of this community are just spoiled complainers are so completely off base and missing the point completely.

Kevinman

JAlbano wrote:

TuckerKatt wrote:

Just because you weren't able to get tickets doesn't mean the system is flawed or the 10C servers can't handle the traffic or whatever theory you've come up with for why you didn't get tickets. There are a very limited number of tickets available. No matter what system is used a lot of people are going to get shut out. If it was changed to a lottery system then all of the lottery losers would complain about how unfair the lottery is, it's rigged, etc. As long as 10C sells tickets there will be plenty of people complaining about how unfair it all is.

It's not reasonable to compare the Ed ticket process to the mail-in process for PJ shows from the Vitalogy Health Club days. Back then there were fewer members, more shows, and more seats available per show. Apples and oranges.

Basically everyone wants a system in which THEY get tickets.

What we are taking issue with are the unnerving tech issues with the site NOT the amount of tickets they make available or a sense of entitlement towards seats or shows. But when you actually are a lucky one to get through and have a pair of tix in your cart and make it all the way to the purchase stage and your cc is processing and purely because of the site's tech problems you lose your order and then have absolutely no recourse...well I for one don't think that's something that should continue to go unchecked. People posting on this thread talking like those of us who've had that experience numerous times and want to have it talked about as a real issue as part of this community are just spoiled complainers are so completely off base and missing the point completely.

+1
Amen Brother

Kreg

Ya win some ya lose some...
We all went through the same rigamarole. Some fans got lucky and others didnt. Bottom line is that 10c doesnt have to offer ANYONE a presale, and I applaud them for the attempt. I may have made some unsavory remarks yesterday in the heat of battle, but these are good people trying to get tickets to the fans. I didnt get tickets yesterday, but there is no way in hell that I am missing this show!

TuckerKatt

JAlbano wrote:

What we are taking issue with are the unnerving tech issues with the site NOT the amount of tickets they make available or a sense of entitlement towards seats or shows. But when you actually are a lucky one to get through and have a pair of tix in your cart and make it all the way to the purchase stage and your cc is processing and purely because of the site's tech problems you lose your order and then have absolutely no recourse...well I for one don't think that's something that should continue to go unchecked. People posting on this thread talking like those of us who've had that experience numerous times and want to have it talked about as a real issue as part of this community are just spoiled complainers are so completely off base and missing the point completely.

So if you never had tickets in your cart or you lost a lottery drawing you wouldn't complain? That's the part I find hard to believe. No matter what, people who get shut out are going to complain about all the flaws in the system. If people never get the Buy button and never get tickets in their cart they'll say the Buy button doesn't exist or it only shows up for low # people or some other nonsense like that.

10C is such an amazing thing. Few bands offer anything like this and at this point a lot of people are just spoiled. I'm sick of all the 10C bashing and especially the talk accusing the 10C of not listening to fans. They have made SEVERAL ticket policy changes in response to fans but unfortunately the complaining never ends.

vital5

boyo79 wrote:

Why do people bother with a 10C pre-sale? Why not just wait for general sale a couple of days later?

Everytime theres a pre-sale, chaos reigns people have tickets then don't and then there's a billions threads complaining. And then after the show people complain about their 10C seats and how people got better seats through Ticketmaster et al. So why go through 10C for your tickets????

Maybe 10C should bring in a new system where everyone gets a chance to apply for whatever gig they want over a day or so and then a few days later a ballot is done and the lucky ones find out if they got tickets. Its the system thats being done for the 2012 Olympics. There's a 2 month period I think where you get to apply for what events you want and then after the deadline has passed you find out which ones you were successful with. This seems a good idea and maybe one 10C should think about it.

Maybe people complaining/posting on the board brought down the ticket system?

Anyway... Ticketmaster and Ticketek in Australia (and most likely the USA) used to have these issues for major concert sales... at times they still do... Tenclub are not either one of these organisations that sell tickets EVERY day... That is reality, it may bite when you get denied, but stop and think about what you're saying before you tap it out on your keyboard...

I know i do! bwahaha