parents marry off 13-year-old daughter as 'penance' for flir

Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited March 2011 in A Moving Train
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... s-1.351664

Haredi parents marry off 13-year-old daughter as 'penance' for flirtations
Rabbi in West Bank town of Modi'in town convinced parents that Kabbalist text prescribed matrimony to atone for 'misconduct'.

By Chaim Levinson

A 13-year-old girl from the ultra-Orthodox town of Modi'in Ilit was married to a 16-year-old this week, after religious activists in the town told the girls' parents it would be penance for her romantic involvement with the boy.

About a month ago, the girl, an eighth-grader at the Netivot Da'at school in the West Bank town of Modi'in Ilit, told other girls in her class that she had become engaged to a 16-year-old boy from Rehovot, and that the two intended to get married soon. She also showed the girls clips of the engagement on her cellular phone.

Gossipers spread the story through the town, and an investigation launched by the welfare department discovered that the girl had become involved with boys over the past year, conduct that is prohibited in the ultra-Orthodox world. The parents, who are poor, approached a local rabbi, known to be involved in kabbalah, who told them that according to the kabbalistic work "The Zohar," the girl could atone by getting married. Six weeks ago, an engagement ceremony was held for the couple.

The wedding was set for the Purim holiday on Sunday. However, when the story became known, other rabbis of the town, led by the city's chief rabbi, Meir Kessler, began a campaign to call off the wedding. Kessler said that if the local rabbi and the parents had married off the young couple, he would call for that rabbi's excommunication. Kessler told Haaretz: I am utterly against the wedding. Marriages must not take place at that age. The marriage will not succeed."

The welfare department also began to monitor the girl closely. Municipal leaders also involved the police, who launched an investigation into suspicions of statutory rape and illegal marriage. The police also asked for a court injunction against the marriage, and warned the father not to go ahead with the marriage.

Over the past week, the parents they said they would call off the engagement. However, the welfare authorities said they had reason to suspect the wedding had in fact taken place in the presence of a rabbi, two witnesses, the parents of the bride and the parents of the groom. According to a senior official in the municipality, the individuals who had been pressuring the girl's family to marry her off told them this was the only way for the girl to supposedly atone for what they said was her sin, and the family was unable to withstand the pressure.

The Benjamin region police, headed by Chief Superintendent Yoram Akua, will now be launching an investigation against the parents and the rabbi who performed the ceremony. Their alleged offense carries a two-year jail term.

The law in Israel prohibits marriage under the age of 17, except by special court permission. According to Jewish law, marriages usually do not take place before the age of 18, except in the most radical sectors of the Bratslav Hasidim, where couples can marry at age 15. In the strict ultra-Orthodox Eda Haredit in Jerusalem, the custom is to get engaged at age 16 and wait two years until marriage.

A spokesman for the Modi'in Ilit local council said: "Due to the social workers' strike, the response of the welfare department is unavailable."

The girl's mother declined to comment, as did the rabbi who urged the family to marry off the girl.
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    very strange by American standards but customs in many parts of the world for different groups of people
    think our customs are strange.

    Godfather.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Godfather. wrote:
    very strange by American standards but customs in many parts of the world for different groups of people
    think our customs are strange.

    Godfather.
    wow. would this be the response if it were a Muslim family? I wonder.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Godfather. wrote:
    very strange by American standards but customs in many parts of the world for different groups of people
    think our customs are strange.

    Godfather.
    wow. would this be the response if it were a Muslim family? I wonder.


    it's not so who cares. why on earth would you even post that comment unless you were looking for an argument ?
    stranger things than that happen our own towns and neighborhoods...where ever you may live.

    Godfather.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    child abuse.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    pandora wrote:
    good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love

    some years after the civil war after the vet's were given pensions and young women would marry older war vets
    so that they would get their husbands pensions after they passed on, little history.

    Godfather.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Godfather. wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    very strange by American standards but customs in many parts of the world for different groups of people
    think our customs are strange.

    Godfather.
    wow. would this be the response if it were a Muslim family? I wonder.


    it's not so who cares. why on earth would you even post that comment unless you were looking for an argument ?
    stranger things than that happen our own towns and neighborhoods...where ever you may live.

    Godfather.
    I'm not looking for an argument, just consistency
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    just consistency ? what do you mean, consistency how ?

    Godfather.
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    He has a point. We may not like the outcome of the judgments handed down by village ‘elders’ that result in the stoning of a person, yet, that decision is based on their religion and traditional culture, just as in this instance where marriage, regardless of the age, is the rightful atonement for their sins based on their religion and traditional culture. The original post just highlights the fact that all cultures have an ‘extreme’ side based on their interpretation of their religious and traditional values.

    It also reminded me of the Michael Fay incident. I was all for him getting his ass beat, because he came across as an arrogant, disrespectful, asswipe. http://www.corpun.com/sgju9404.htm

    Even today, with all the advances made by mankind flogging or lashing is a common form of punishment in Saudi Arabia and is often mandatory with some crimes.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    pandora wrote:
    good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love

    did you just fall out of a tree???
    Shes a 13 year old being forced to marry for her 'sin' of flirting by her orthodox parents on the advice of their rabbi.
    There is no young love and there will be no lasting love. IT WAS FLIRTING!!! Get real.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love

    did you just fall out of a tree???
    Shes a 13 year old being forced to marry for her 'sin' of flirting by her orthodox parents on the advice of their rabbi.
    There is no young love and there will be no lasting love. IT WAS FLIRTING!!! Get real.
    Good Lord woman, you love to insult don't you?

    you could try to be slightly nice ...yes/no?

    I have been doing my ancestry and have seen some god awful things
    so my point, which of course you wouldn't embrace, is...

    glad he wasn't 50!

    no lasting love? really?...you do not know this

    and this a different culture than ours

    I know couples who have been together since school...lasting love from a young age because they are committed.

    we speak from the experience we know
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    i thought perhaps youd bumped your head hard enough for you to think the actions of the parents and the rabbi were condonable. FORCED to marry for the SIN oF FLIRTING. where is the choice here? She is a child. I see that you choose to ignore the fact that the girl is a child and whether their 'love' which isnt even a fact, will or will not be everlasting, is totally irrelevant and since when does mere flirting equate to love anyway? Forcing any child to marry is not a case of 'but their culture is different from ours'... It is about protecting the rights of the children.

    Oh and by the way pandora.. When you speak of 'our culture' what exactly do you mean! Cause last time i checked you werent an australian so you are not a part of 'my' culture. And
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    Just shows you how backwards some people are.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    pandora wrote:
    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love
    pandora wrote:
    no lasting love? really?...you do not know this


    Hmm... maybe this could be an indication.. "and an investigation launched by the welfare department discovered that the girl had become involved with boys over the past year," Note the plural (which is normal behaviour for a young girl - with certain caveats!). So who was going to be her husband? The latest one?
    pandora wrote:
    good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.
    :shock: 50 or 16, a 13 year old child being forced into marriage is outrageous. 'good thing....' :roll:
    i thought perhaps youd bumped your head hard enough for you to think the actions of the parents and the rabbi were condonable. FORCED to marry for the SIN oF FLIRTING. where is the choice here? She is a child......... Forcing any child to marry is not a case of 'but their culture is different from ours'... It is about protecting the rights of the children....

    Exactly - the rights/protection of the CHILD. It would seem the actions of the parents and the rabbi are extreme. What they have (possibly) done seems to be against the law and carries a jail sentence. At least now the girl is being monitored, etc.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    i thought perhaps youd bumped your head hard enough for you to think the actions of the parents and the rabbi were condonable. FORCED to marry for the SIN oF FLIRTING. where is the choice here? She is a child. I see that you choose to ignore the fact that the girl is a child and whether their 'love' which isnt even a fact, will or will not be everlasting, is totally irrelevant and since when does mere flirting equate to love anyway? Forcing any child to marry is not a case of 'but their culture is different from ours'... It is about protecting the rights of the children.

    Oh and by the way pandora.. When you speak of 'our culture' what exactly do you mean! Cause last time i checked you werent an australian so you are not a part of 'my' culture. And
    Where did I say they should marry?

    my original post

    "good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love"


    of course they shouldn't marry, that goes without saying
    I never said they should...that would be ridiculous.


    We can say this shouln't be done or that shouldn't be done....
    Are you taking action so it won't in the future? or are we all just spouting off about
    backward cultures.

    But I see the influence of the culture.

    I hope because they are peers that their love can grow and sustain as I know friends that have.

    I believe in the possibility of lasting love from a young age.


    As I said my basic point was it is better than the crimes of the past...
    50 year old men marrying young girls
    that at least they were peers with a chance for young love

    I really wish you would try to understand my words
    instead of changing them to fit what you would like them to be.

    I never said they should marry.... but you chose to see it different...
    as condoning the ridiculous. I wonder why?

    I also wish you would refrain from insulting me....it is immature.
    'think twice be nice' before we type :D

    And yes we have come from different cultures
    you and I both know that, it also goes without saying.

    I meant cultures that were not backward ....I think you knew that though.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    where did you say this situation of 4ORCED MARRIAGE OF A CHILD should NEVER be supported???
    You basically talk aboit how their young love should be allowed to blossom and thrive and not once is it mentioned this girl is in love with the boy she flirted with. Do you understand the concept of flirting pandora?' do you understand that not everyone we flirt with is someone e have love for. Do you understand that flirting is about discovery.. Its not about hoping at 13 years old finding someone with whom youre willing to spend the rest of your lkife with.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    SO WHAT ?.......flirting also leads to teen pregnancy and baby's that grow up without both parents.
    this is getting crazy......everybody take a deep breath and sit down then ask your self "what can I as an individual do about this" or "does my opinion even matter" this is a whole other world and culture we have no
    authority over,what we think of the situation is irrelevant so if my opinion is different than yours does it matter ?

    Godfather.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    where did you say this situation of 4ORCED MARRIAGE OF A CHILD should NEVER be supported???
    You basically talk aboit how their young love should be allowed to blossom and thrive and not once is it mentioned this girl is in love with the boy she flirted with. Do you understand the concept of flirting pandora?' do you understand that not everyone we flirt with is someone e have love for. Do you understand that flirting is about discovery.. Its not about hoping at 13 years old finding someone with whom youre willing to spend the rest of your lkife with.
    Do I understand flirting? I understand it here in my country.
    I understand that in their culture it is something different.

    I did not say young love should be allowed to do anything...again word twisting :?

    I said it can last that I believe it is possible to be happily married from teen age on
    that was only a hope for them

    again not sure why you don't read my words or even attempt to understand what I say


    again....

    I did not condone this union

    can you understand that?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    what i understand pandora is that you havent condemned the forced marriage of a 13 year old child.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Godfather. wrote:
    SO WHAT ?.......flirting also leads to teen pregnancy and baby's that grow up without both parents.
    this is getting crazy......everybody take a deep breath and sit down then ask your self "what can I as an individual do about this" or "does my opinion even matter" this is a whole other world and culture we have no
    authority over,what we think of the situation is irrelevant so if my opinion is different than yours does it matter ?

    Godfather.

    It matters if your opinion is that the forced marriage of a child is ok.

    Just ask yourself godfather... If this were your child, would you be ok with it? Are you ok with children being forced into marriage.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    i thought perhaps youd bumped your head hard enough for you to think the actions of the parents and the rabbi were condonable. FORCED to marry for the SIN oF FLIRTING. where is the choice here? She is a child. I see that you choose to ignore the fact that the girl is a child and whether their 'love' which isnt even a fact, will or will not be everlasting, is totally irrelevant and since when does mere flirting equate to love anyway? Forcing any child to marry is not a case of 'but their culture is different from ours'... It is about protecting the rights of the children.

    Oh and by the way pandora.. When you speak of 'our culture' what exactly do you mean! Cause last time i checked you werent an australian so you are not a part of 'my' culture. And
    Where did I say they should marry?

    my original post

    "good thing he wasn't 50 years old like back in the day here in the US.

    Old men marrying girls just into 'womanhood'

    these are peers.. in young love...hopefully lasting love"


    of course they shouldn't marry, that goes without saying
    I never said they should...that would be ridiculous.


    We can say this shouln't be done or that shouldn't be done....
    Are you taking action so it won't in the future? or are we all just spouting off about
    backward cultures.

    But I see the influence of the culture.

    I hope because they are peers that their love can grow and sustain as I know friends that have.

    I believe in the possibility of lasting love from a young age.


    As I said my basic point was it is better than the crimes of the past...
    50 year old men marrying young girls
    that at least they were peers with a chance for young love

    I really wish you would try to understand my words
    instead of changing them to fit what you would like them to be.

    I never said they should marry.... but you chose to see it different...
    as condoning the ridiculous. I wonder why?

    I also wish you would refrain from insulting me....it is immature.
    'think twice be nice' before we type :D

    And yes we have come from different cultures
    you and I both know that, it also goes without saying.

    I meant cultures that were not backward ....I think you knew that though.
    Did you read this in bold type? that is condemning ...I find it a ridiculous situation
    it went without saying cate
    of course I condemn forced marriage...but your stance has been the flip side...
    that I condone it

    but although I condemn I can hope that their marriage will survive and be blessed
    with lasting love.

    I can also hope that others see the light.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Godfather. wrote:
    SO WHAT ?.......flirting also leads to teen pregnancy and baby's that grow up without both parents.
    this is getting crazy......everybody take a deep breath and sit down then ask your self "what can I as an individual do about this" or "does my opinion even matter" this is a whole other world and culture we have no
    authority over,what we think of the situation is irrelevant so if my opinion is different than yours does it matter ?

    Godfather.

    It matters if your opinion is that the forced marriage of a child is ok.

    Just ask yourself godfather... If this were your child, would you be ok with it? Are you ok with children being forced into marriage.

    it's not my child or yours
    it's not our culture
    this forced marriage thing in other countries has been happening for centuries (not saying it's right or wrong)
    so why is this one so different ? and this country we have little to no understanding of their laws and traditions, wasted time and energy in my opinion.

    Godfather.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Godfather. wrote:
    so why is this one so different ? and this country we have little to no understanding of their laws and traditions, wasted time and energy in my opinion.

    I guess because this one is an extremist point of view, not shared by the laws of the country (if I read the article correctly). Same as religious sects in the USA being prosecuted for forcibly marrying under-aged girls to male followers. It may be the 'way' for the extremist sect, but against the law of the country.
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,619
    Godfather. wrote:
    very strange by American standards but customs in many parts of the world for different groups of people
    think our customs are strange.

    Godfather.
    wow. would this be the response if it were a Muslim family? I wonder.

    Here we go again with thinly-veiled sensationalism!
Sign In or Register to comment.