Do we have to point out all the parts of the bible were god is just a jerk :?:
I'd love the chance to debate some examples.
Killing all the firstborn sons in Egypt is a start... Would be kind of like killing all of German's first born sons because of Hitler.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Do we have to point out all the parts of the bible were god is just a jerk :?:
I'd love the chance to debate some examples.
Killing all the firstborn sons in Egypt is a start... Would be kind of like killing all of German's first born sons because of Hitler.
I'd like the opportunity to present you with more of an answer than one sentence on this, but I won't get a chance today...will get back to you tomorrow on this one.
Sounds good. I just don't see how killing the KIDS had anything to do with it... Seems like bringing in people who weren't involved.
And personally, I think Abraham wasn't a great guy to be willing to kill his own son. Any father who's willing to kill his own son, is in my book, an asshole.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I'd like the opportunity to present you with more of an answer than one sentence on this, but I won't get a chance today...will get back to you tomorrow on this one.
For a god who works in mysterious ways, all powerful, all knowing, etc etc, he acts like a man from the bronze/iron age would act, and that's exactly why god appears in the bible like a man from the bronze/iron, because he's the invention of the man of that time, without the knowledge of the world we have now and of course the developed morals, we can argue that we can be monsters and commit acts of incredible cruelty but we are not "perfect" as god call "himself" (or better said those who invented it) in the bible, plus the majority of the people is good and decent people, also any man who dared to the .1% of what god did on the bible will be put in prison (or killed) and called a monster, plus why we can judge the god of the bible, why god have a special pass because a self proclaim holy book says so?
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sounds good. I just don't see how killing the KIDS had anything to do with it... Seems like bringing in people who weren't involved.
And personally, I think Abraham wasn't a great guy to be willing to kill his own son. Any father who's willing to kill his own son, is in my book, an asshole.
As far as Abraham is concerned, he was DEEPLY troubled by the notion of killing his son. To be clear, it was never God's intention his son actually die. It was a display of faith, as Abraham was extremely faithful to God. He had such a relationship with God, he could audibly hear God's voice. God still speaks to His people, but in a different way, through Jesus, because of the Second Covenant.
He feared God, and he did what was commanded of him. Again, no harm came to his son.
For a god who works in mysterious ways, all powerful, all knowing, etc etc, he acts like a man from the bronze/iron age would act, and that's exactly why god appears in the bible like a man from the bronze/iron, because he's the invention of the man of that time, without the knowledge of the world we have now and of course the developed morals, we can argue that we can be monsters and commit acts of incredible cruelty but we are not "perfect" as god call "himself" (or better said those who invented it) in the bible, plus the majority of the people is good and decent people, also any man who dared to the .1% of what god did on the bible will be put in prison (or killed) and called a monster, plus why we can judge the god of the bible, why god have a special pass because a self proclaim holy book says so?
Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
—1 Peter 1:8-9
Faith. For the Believer, it boils down to faith. God's nature is God's nature - He is a loving God, but there are many verses regarding his Justice. He will pass judgements according to His Will, despite what a politically correct society thinks about it.
As far as judgement is concerned, God is not a universalist -under this belief almost everyone will go to heaven one day, I have had people even say Hitler would go to heaven. The problem with that is that most of us realize that if there is a God then there will be judgment for the things we have done in our lives, we just differ on what we think is wrong and what is right. People often reject God’s judgment based on their desire that God will judge no one, so they can do whatever and not face punishment for their actions. Three truths in the Bible that show that God will judge everyone are the verses that say so in the Bible, the passage of scripture in the book of Revelation that describes the judgment, and Jesus’ death.
To start there are many verses that speak of God as a judge and that He will judge the world. 2 Timothy 4:8 speaks of Jesus as a righteous judge and Psalm 75:7 speaks of “God the Judge”. Being a judge God loves justice Psalm 33:5, 37:28 and Deuteronomy 32:4 says all His (God’s) ways are justice. Think about it, if God exists we want Him to be just and punish evil, we just differ on what we say should be punished. Two verses that had a big impact on me and caused me to start talking to people even more than before about God’s judgment are Daniel 7:9,10. The parts of these verses that spoke to me most are where it speaks of God as “the Ancient of Day” and “the court was seated, and the books were opened”. God is not kidding about judgment. Other verses that speak of God judging the earth is: Psalm 9:8, Psalm 96:13 and Psalm 98:9.
Another part of scripture that tells of God’s judgment is Revelation 20:11-15 commonly known as “the Great White Throne Room Judgment”. This passage of scripture talks about how God at the last days will raise everyone up to judge those who have rejected God’s free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ. This passage is almost a continuation of Daniel 7:9-10 because it speaks of God having books that He is going to judge people from. Verse 15 says that “anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire” and verse 14 says that “this is the second death”. Revelation 13:8 speaks of the Book of Life as the “Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” and in Revelation 3:5 Jesus says that He can blot people’s name from the Book.
The last indicator of God’s judgment is the fact that Jesus died. If God does not have any wrath and judgment for sin, Jesus would not have had to die, but He did die. Jesus said in Mark 10:45 that He came to give His life as a ransom. In John 10:17-18 Jesus said that no one took His life from Him but that He laid it down, ultimately to save us from our sins by taking our place of punishment. In the Gospel accounts, Matthew, Mark and Luke all record how Jesus prayed that if it was possible that “this cup” (His death) would pass from Him Matthew 26:39-44, Mark 14:36-41, Luke 22:42-45. The cup did not pass from Him and He was crucified and died Matt 27:35, Mark 15:24, Luke 23:33, John19:18. Jesus was crucified because God being just has to punish sin but God wants to give us mercy Romans 6:23. Justice is giving someone what they deserve and mercy is to not give someone what they deserve. So God could fulfill both of His natures He sent His Son to take the place of punishment for us, so He could be just, punishing our sins in Himself, and merciful offering us forgiveness. So all we have to do now to receive God’s mercy is to put our faith and trust in Jesus and repent for our sins. These reasons show that God will judge everyone one day; the question is then is your name written in the Book of Life?
Sounds good. I just don't see how killing the KIDS had anything to do with it... Seems like bringing in people who weren't involved.
And personally, I think Abraham wasn't a great guy to be willing to kill his own son. Any father who's willing to kill his own son, is in my book, an asshole.
As far as Abraham is concerned, he was DEEPLY troubled by the notion of killing his son. To be clear, it was never God's intention his son actually die. It was a display of faith, as Abraham was extremely faithful to God. He had such a relationship with God, he could audibly hear God's voice. God still speaks to His people, but in a different way, through Jesus, because of the Second Covenant.
He feared God, and he did what was commanded of him. Again, no harm came to his son.
I looked at that, and it's interesting to see the historical context. I'm still troubled by the 69,000 innocent Egyptian children died... I think ONE is too many. And if Abraham was more faithful to his god than his own son, then I have no respect for him.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Electric_Delta I believe that most xtians are well intentioned and loving people, but they are too deep rooted in the mythology of their believe to see that their are 1000 times better than the god they believe, at least I believe you're I believe you don't need a god to be a good person, I believe you'll do what's morally correct most of the time not because is the xtian thing to do but because it is right in its own merits.
I can argue for hours about all the bible passages you quoted, but you and I will lose our time, I was a super xtian, believe me I've read the bible back and forward dozens of times, I even had it as an audiobook, and when I started discovering how contradictory is I created my own version to make it make sense, but at the end I had to accept that it was a collection of human books with human flaws, each one written with the agenda fitted for the time being.
So if the bible is the proof if god existence then we could be talking about the same but with the popol vuh, or the Qumran, or any other "holy" book.
Also if you have to defend yourself and your side of the story is structured like the bible but without the miracles, you'll lose the case no matter what, because a story can't be true when is filled with half truths and so many contradictions, so I rest my case.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Electric_Delta I believe that most xtians are well intentioned and loving people, but they are too deep rooted in the mythology of their believe to see that their are 1000 times better than the god they believe, at least I believe you're I believe you don't need a god to be a good person, I believe you'll do what's morally correct most of the time not because is the xtian thing to do but because it is right in its own merits.
I can argue for hours about all the bible passages you quoted, but you and I will lose our time, I was a super xtian, believe me I've read the bible back and forward dozens of times, I even had it as an audiobook, and when I started discovering how contradictory is I created my own version to make it make sense, but at the end I had to accept that it was a collection of human books with human flaws, each one written with the agenda fitted for the time being.
So if the bible is the proof if god existence then we could be talking about the same but with the popol vuh, or the Qumran, or any other "holy" book.
Also if you have to defend yourself and your side of the story is structured like the bible but without the miracles, you'll lose the case no matter what, because a story can't be true when is filled with half truths and so many contradictions, so I rest my case.
Arq, you seem like a cool person, too - but I respectfully (though strongly) disagree with you.
Also, you made your point clear, so I will too...I see half-truths and contradictions in man's reasons for explaining away God and denying Him. I have been a student of the Bible my entire life and have yet to discover one contradiction. I do not believe there are mistakes in God's divine Word...otherwise it would not be a work of His hand.
That having been said, I now rest my case as well.
I do not believe there are mistakes in God's divine Word...
So if i found contradictions in the bible and show them to you, what would you do? :think:
I mean if its the word of god it shouldn't have any contradiction or any scientific fact wrong on it, I mean even the slightest error prove that is not inerrant.
Would you accept that is not the word of god?
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I do not believe there are mistakes in God's divine Word...
So if i found contradictions in the bible and show them to you, what would you do? :think:
I mean if its the word of god it shouldn't have any contradiction or any scientific fact wrong on it, I mean even the slightest error prove that is not inerrant.
Would you accept that is not the word of god?
I thought we were resting our mutual cases
What most people see as contradictions usually boil down to a matter of context. There are no errors.
There is no force on this planet which will cause me to renounce the Word of God.
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
40 days and nights.
sounds dickish to me.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
kind of selfish for god to ask that is it not?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
God tested Job and as a result, Job is regarded as a classic example of undying faith in God.
The world was overtly evil and disobedient to God's Word. He judged it.
Abraham's faith was being tested. His son was not harmed.
I'd like the opportunity to present you with more of an answer than one sentence on this, but I won't get a chance today...will get back to you tomorrow on this one.
And personally, I think Abraham wasn't a great guy to be willing to kill his own son. Any father who's willing to kill his own son, is in my book, an asshole.
For a god who works in mysterious ways, all powerful, all knowing, etc etc, he acts like a man from the bronze/iron age would act, and that's exactly why god appears in the bible like a man from the bronze/iron, because he's the invention of the man of that time, without the knowledge of the world we have now and of course the developed morals, we can argue that we can be monsters and commit acts of incredible cruelty but we are not "perfect" as god call "himself" (or better said those who invented it) in the bible, plus the majority of the people is good and decent people, also any man who dared to the .1% of what god did on the bible will be put in prison (or killed) and called a monster, plus why we can judge the god of the bible, why god have a special pass because a self proclaim holy book says so?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Keeponrockin, I want you to check out a website which presents an objective view on the plague of the firstborn: http://www.christianthinktank.com/killheir.html.
As far as Abraham is concerned, he was DEEPLY troubled by the notion of killing his son. To be clear, it was never God's intention his son actually die. It was a display of faith, as Abraham was extremely faithful to God. He had such a relationship with God, he could audibly hear God's voice. God still speaks to His people, but in a different way, through Jesus, because of the Second Covenant.
He feared God, and he did what was commanded of him. Again, no harm came to his son.
Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
—1 Peter 1:8-9
Faith. For the Believer, it boils down to faith. God's nature is God's nature - He is a loving God, but there are many verses regarding his Justice. He will pass judgements according to His Will, despite what a politically correct society thinks about it.
As far as judgement is concerned, God is not a universalist -under this belief almost everyone will go to heaven one day, I have had people even say Hitler would go to heaven. The problem with that is that most of us realize that if there is a God then there will be judgment for the things we have done in our lives, we just differ on what we think is wrong and what is right. People often reject God’s judgment based on their desire that God will judge no one, so they can do whatever and not face punishment for their actions. Three truths in the Bible that show that God will judge everyone are the verses that say so in the Bible, the passage of scripture in the book of Revelation that describes the judgment, and Jesus’ death.
To start there are many verses that speak of God as a judge and that He will judge the world. 2 Timothy 4:8 speaks of Jesus as a righteous judge and Psalm 75:7 speaks of “God the Judge”. Being a judge God loves justice Psalm 33:5, 37:28 and Deuteronomy 32:4 says all His (God’s) ways are justice. Think about it, if God exists we want Him to be just and punish evil, we just differ on what we say should be punished. Two verses that had a big impact on me and caused me to start talking to people even more than before about God’s judgment are Daniel 7:9,10. The parts of these verses that spoke to me most are where it speaks of God as “the Ancient of Day” and “the court was seated, and the books were opened”. God is not kidding about judgment. Other verses that speak of God judging the earth is: Psalm 9:8, Psalm 96:13 and Psalm 98:9.
Another part of scripture that tells of God’s judgment is Revelation 20:11-15 commonly known as “the Great White Throne Room Judgment”. This passage of scripture talks about how God at the last days will raise everyone up to judge those who have rejected God’s free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ. This passage is almost a continuation of Daniel 7:9-10 because it speaks of God having books that He is going to judge people from. Verse 15 says that “anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire” and verse 14 says that “this is the second death”. Revelation 13:8 speaks of the Book of Life as the “Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” and in Revelation 3:5 Jesus says that He can blot people’s name from the Book.
The last indicator of God’s judgment is the fact that Jesus died. If God does not have any wrath and judgment for sin, Jesus would not have had to die, but He did die. Jesus said in Mark 10:45 that He came to give His life as a ransom. In John 10:17-18 Jesus said that no one took His life from Him but that He laid it down, ultimately to save us from our sins by taking our place of punishment. In the Gospel accounts, Matthew, Mark and Luke all record how Jesus prayed that if it was possible that “this cup” (His death) would pass from Him Matthew 26:39-44, Mark 14:36-41, Luke 22:42-45. The cup did not pass from Him and He was crucified and died Matt 27:35, Mark 15:24, Luke 23:33, John19:18. Jesus was crucified because God being just has to punish sin but God wants to give us mercy Romans 6:23. Justice is giving someone what they deserve and mercy is to not give someone what they deserve. So God could fulfill both of His natures He sent His Son to take the place of punishment for us, so He could be just, punishing our sins in Himself, and merciful offering us forgiveness. So all we have to do now to receive God’s mercy is to put our faith and trust in Jesus and repent for our sins. These reasons show that God will judge everyone one day; the question is then is your name written in the Book of Life?
I looked at that, and it's interesting to see the historical context. I'm still troubled by the 69,000 innocent Egyptian children died... I think ONE is too many. And if Abraham was more faithful to his god than his own son, then I have no respect for him.
I can argue for hours about all the bible passages you quoted, but you and I will lose our time, I was a super xtian, believe me I've read the bible back and forward dozens of times, I even had it as an audiobook, and when I started discovering how contradictory is I created my own version to make it make sense, but at the end I had to accept that it was a collection of human books with human flaws, each one written with the agenda fitted for the time being.
So if the bible is the proof if god existence then we could be talking about the same but with the popol vuh, or the Qumran, or any other "holy" book.
Also if you have to defend yourself and your side of the story is structured like the bible but without the miracles, you'll lose the case no matter what, because a story can't be true when is filled with half truths and so many contradictions, so I rest my case.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Arq, you seem like a cool person, too - but I respectfully (though strongly) disagree with you.
Also, you made your point clear, so I will too...I see half-truths and contradictions in man's reasons for explaining away God and denying Him. I have been a student of the Bible my entire life and have yet to discover one contradiction. I do not believe there are mistakes in God's divine Word...otherwise it would not be a work of His hand.
That having been said, I now rest my case as well.
So if i found contradictions in the bible and show them to you, what would you do? :think:
I mean if its the word of god it shouldn't have any contradiction or any scientific fact wrong on it, I mean even the slightest error prove that is not inerrant.
Would you accept that is not the word of god?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I thought we were resting our mutual cases
What most people see as contradictions usually boil down to a matter of context. There are no errors.
There is no force on this planet which will cause me to renounce the Word of God.
Oh well that rest this and any other case in the future!
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?