I'm not an American so please ...
zarocat
Posts: 1,901
... tell me what the problem is with the Republican party ? They seem to be an unbalanced sect to your society that stands out the most ... am I wrong ?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/us/06 ... ml?_r=1&hp
BOZEMAN, Mont. — With his electrician’s tool belt and company logo cap, Rick Schmidt looks every bit the small-business owner he in fact is. That he often reeks of marijuana these days ... well, it is just part of the job, he said.
Enlarge This Image
Mike Albans for The New York Times
The six-year-old medical marijuana industry is thriving in the state, but lawmakers are considering a measure that would shut it down.
“I went on a service call the other day — walked in and a guy said to me, ‘What have you been smoking?’ ” said Mr. Schmidt, 39.
For Gallatin Electric, a six-employee company founded by Mr. Schmidt’s father, Richard, as for other businesses in this corner of south-central Montana, medical marijuana has been central to surviving hard times as the construction industry and the second-home market collapsed. Not the smoking of it, the growing of it or even the selling of it, but the fully legal, taxable revenues being collected from the industry’s new, emerging class of entrepreneurs. Three of the four electricians on staff at Gallatin, Mr. Schmidt said, are there only because of the work building indoor marijuana factories.
Questions about who really benefits from medical marijuana are now gripping Montana. In the Legislature, a resurgent Republican majority elected last fall is leading a drive to repeal the six-year-old voter-approved statute permitting the use of marijuana for medical purposes, which opponents argue is promoting recreational use and crime.
If repeal forces succeed — the House last month voted strongly for repeal, and the Senate is now considering it — Montana would be the first to recant among the 15 states and the District of Columbia that have such laws.
In Bozeman, a college and tourism town north of Yellowstone National Park, construction jobs and tax collections dried up just as the marijuana business was blossoming; residents and politicians here say the interconnection of economics and legal drugs would be much more complicated to undo.
Economic ripples or entanglements extend in every direction, business people like the Schmidts say — gardening supply companies where marijuana growers are buying equipment, mainstream bakeries that are contracting for pot-laced pastries and even the state’s biggest utility, NorthWestern Energy, which is seeing a surge in electricity use by the new factories. Medical marijuana, measured by numbers of patients, has roughly quadrupled in Montana in the last year.
“It’s new territory we’re treading in here,” said Brad Van Wert, a sales associate at Independent Power Systems, a Bozeman company that completed its first solar installation last month — a six-kilowatt rooftop solar array, costing about $40,000 — for a medical marijuana provider called Sensible Alternatives.
Mr. Van Wert said that his company was assertively going after this new market, and that marijuana entrepreneurs, facing big tax bills, were responding to the appeal of a 30 percent tax credit offered by the state for expansion of renewable energy.
The Bozeman City Council passed regulations last year sharply restricting the numbers of storefront suppliers downtown. But growers and providers say that even though the regulations restricted their numbers, they also created a climate of legitimacy that has made other businesses more comfortable in dealing with them for equipment and supplies.
And unlike the situation in sunny California or Colorado, where medical marijuana has similarly surged, growing marijuana indoors is all but mandatory here, a fact that has compounded the capital expenditures for startups and spread the economic benefits around further still. An industry group formed by marijuana growers estimates that they spend $12 million annually around the state, and that 1,400 jobs were created mostly in the last year in a state of only 975,000 people.
“Twenty-five thousand dollars a month,” one new grower and medical marijuana provider, Rob Dobrowski, said of his outlay for electricity alone, mainly for his light-intensive grow operation that supplies four stores around the state.
Mr. Dobrowski was a construction contractor until the recession hit, as were two of his brothers who have joined him in the business. He said he now employs 33 people, from a standing start of zero a year ago.
Bozeman’s mayor, Jeff Krauss, a Republican, said he thought there was an element of economic fairness to be considered in the debate about medical marijuana’s future.
“I don’t think anybody passed it thinking we were creating an industry,” Mr. Krauss said, referring to the 2004 voter referendum. But like it or not, he said, it has become one, and legal investments in the millions of dollars have been made.
Enlarge This Image
Mike Albans for The New York Times
Tara Gregorich, who has a degree in environmental horticultural science from Montana State, at work in a marijuana factory.
“Somewhere around 25 people have made anywhere from a $60,000 to a $100,000 bet on this industry,” Mr. Krauss said, referring to the local startups and their capital costs.
“Now the Legislature has got us saying, ‘Ha, too bad, you lose,’ ” Mr. Krauss added. “Boy is that a bad message to send when we’re in the doldrums.”
One owner of a gardening supply company in the Bozeman area estimated that a person could essentially buy a job for $15,000, beginning a small growing operation with 100 plants. Especially for construction trade workers who were used to being self-employed before the recession, the owner said, the rhythms of the new industry feel familiar.
“Forty to 50 percent of customers come from construction,” said the owner, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because her national suppliers threatened to stop doing business with her if their products were openly associated with marijuana. “Plumbers, electricians, the whole genre of working-class, blue-collar Montana.”
There are shadowy corners in the supposedly compassionate world of medical marijuana. The owner of one downtown pastry shop, where the sale of marijuana cookies and brownies accounts for about 15 percent of revenue, said he broke off a relationship with his first marijuana provider, who wanted the baker to use less marijuana in the products and falsify the ingredients to save the grower production costs.
And it is easy to find workers in this new economy who were in the illegal pot world before.
But it is also easy to find people like Josh Werle, 29, who took a job as a grower at a company called A Kinder Caregiver after work as a commercial painter dried up.
Mr. Werle, a fourth-generation Montanan, said his family had seen many industries fade and fail over the decades — from railroads to agriculture, and now, in his case, construction. He said he had also worried about his health as a painter, breathing fumes all day. But the economy is what finally pushed him out.
Other new workers say a major appeal of medical marijuana is that, unlike so much else in Montana’s economy, including tourism, traditional agriculture and construction, there is no off-season or lean time.
“I never envisioned myself working in this,” said Tara Gregorich, 29, who graduated last May from Montana State University, in Bozeman, with a degree in environmental horticultural science. She sat under the lights in an industrial grow room, legs splayed around a plant that she was trimming lower shoots from to encourage growth. “But this is one of the few industries in Montana that is year-round.”
At Gallatin Electric, Rick Schmidt said he still made a sharp distinction between medical marijuana and street drugs. Illegal drug dealers, he said, “should have the book thrown at them.”
But he thinks medical use probably does have benefits.
Mr. Schmidt said his father-in-law, who suffers from post-polio syndrome, was considering applying for a medical marijuana card
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/us/06 ... ml?_r=1&hp
BOZEMAN, Mont. — With his electrician’s tool belt and company logo cap, Rick Schmidt looks every bit the small-business owner he in fact is. That he often reeks of marijuana these days ... well, it is just part of the job, he said.
Enlarge This Image
Mike Albans for The New York Times
The six-year-old medical marijuana industry is thriving in the state, but lawmakers are considering a measure that would shut it down.
“I went on a service call the other day — walked in and a guy said to me, ‘What have you been smoking?’ ” said Mr. Schmidt, 39.
For Gallatin Electric, a six-employee company founded by Mr. Schmidt’s father, Richard, as for other businesses in this corner of south-central Montana, medical marijuana has been central to surviving hard times as the construction industry and the second-home market collapsed. Not the smoking of it, the growing of it or even the selling of it, but the fully legal, taxable revenues being collected from the industry’s new, emerging class of entrepreneurs. Three of the four electricians on staff at Gallatin, Mr. Schmidt said, are there only because of the work building indoor marijuana factories.
Questions about who really benefits from medical marijuana are now gripping Montana. In the Legislature, a resurgent Republican majority elected last fall is leading a drive to repeal the six-year-old voter-approved statute permitting the use of marijuana for medical purposes, which opponents argue is promoting recreational use and crime.
If repeal forces succeed — the House last month voted strongly for repeal, and the Senate is now considering it — Montana would be the first to recant among the 15 states and the District of Columbia that have such laws.
In Bozeman, a college and tourism town north of Yellowstone National Park, construction jobs and tax collections dried up just as the marijuana business was blossoming; residents and politicians here say the interconnection of economics and legal drugs would be much more complicated to undo.
Economic ripples or entanglements extend in every direction, business people like the Schmidts say — gardening supply companies where marijuana growers are buying equipment, mainstream bakeries that are contracting for pot-laced pastries and even the state’s biggest utility, NorthWestern Energy, which is seeing a surge in electricity use by the new factories. Medical marijuana, measured by numbers of patients, has roughly quadrupled in Montana in the last year.
“It’s new territory we’re treading in here,” said Brad Van Wert, a sales associate at Independent Power Systems, a Bozeman company that completed its first solar installation last month — a six-kilowatt rooftop solar array, costing about $40,000 — for a medical marijuana provider called Sensible Alternatives.
Mr. Van Wert said that his company was assertively going after this new market, and that marijuana entrepreneurs, facing big tax bills, were responding to the appeal of a 30 percent tax credit offered by the state for expansion of renewable energy.
The Bozeman City Council passed regulations last year sharply restricting the numbers of storefront suppliers downtown. But growers and providers say that even though the regulations restricted their numbers, they also created a climate of legitimacy that has made other businesses more comfortable in dealing with them for equipment and supplies.
And unlike the situation in sunny California or Colorado, where medical marijuana has similarly surged, growing marijuana indoors is all but mandatory here, a fact that has compounded the capital expenditures for startups and spread the economic benefits around further still. An industry group formed by marijuana growers estimates that they spend $12 million annually around the state, and that 1,400 jobs were created mostly in the last year in a state of only 975,000 people.
“Twenty-five thousand dollars a month,” one new grower and medical marijuana provider, Rob Dobrowski, said of his outlay for electricity alone, mainly for his light-intensive grow operation that supplies four stores around the state.
Mr. Dobrowski was a construction contractor until the recession hit, as were two of his brothers who have joined him in the business. He said he now employs 33 people, from a standing start of zero a year ago.
Bozeman’s mayor, Jeff Krauss, a Republican, said he thought there was an element of economic fairness to be considered in the debate about medical marijuana’s future.
“I don’t think anybody passed it thinking we were creating an industry,” Mr. Krauss said, referring to the 2004 voter referendum. But like it or not, he said, it has become one, and legal investments in the millions of dollars have been made.
Enlarge This Image
Mike Albans for The New York Times
Tara Gregorich, who has a degree in environmental horticultural science from Montana State, at work in a marijuana factory.
“Somewhere around 25 people have made anywhere from a $60,000 to a $100,000 bet on this industry,” Mr. Krauss said, referring to the local startups and their capital costs.
“Now the Legislature has got us saying, ‘Ha, too bad, you lose,’ ” Mr. Krauss added. “Boy is that a bad message to send when we’re in the doldrums.”
One owner of a gardening supply company in the Bozeman area estimated that a person could essentially buy a job for $15,000, beginning a small growing operation with 100 plants. Especially for construction trade workers who were used to being self-employed before the recession, the owner said, the rhythms of the new industry feel familiar.
“Forty to 50 percent of customers come from construction,” said the owner, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because her national suppliers threatened to stop doing business with her if their products were openly associated with marijuana. “Plumbers, electricians, the whole genre of working-class, blue-collar Montana.”
There are shadowy corners in the supposedly compassionate world of medical marijuana. The owner of one downtown pastry shop, where the sale of marijuana cookies and brownies accounts for about 15 percent of revenue, said he broke off a relationship with his first marijuana provider, who wanted the baker to use less marijuana in the products and falsify the ingredients to save the grower production costs.
And it is easy to find workers in this new economy who were in the illegal pot world before.
But it is also easy to find people like Josh Werle, 29, who took a job as a grower at a company called A Kinder Caregiver after work as a commercial painter dried up.
Mr. Werle, a fourth-generation Montanan, said his family had seen many industries fade and fail over the decades — from railroads to agriculture, and now, in his case, construction. He said he had also worried about his health as a painter, breathing fumes all day. But the economy is what finally pushed him out.
Other new workers say a major appeal of medical marijuana is that, unlike so much else in Montana’s economy, including tourism, traditional agriculture and construction, there is no off-season or lean time.
“I never envisioned myself working in this,” said Tara Gregorich, 29, who graduated last May from Montana State University, in Bozeman, with a degree in environmental horticultural science. She sat under the lights in an industrial grow room, legs splayed around a plant that she was trimming lower shoots from to encourage growth. “But this is one of the few industries in Montana that is year-round.”
At Gallatin Electric, Rick Schmidt said he still made a sharp distinction between medical marijuana and street drugs. Illegal drug dealers, he said, “should have the book thrown at them.”
But he thinks medical use probably does have benefits.
Mr. Schmidt said his father-in-law, who suffers from post-polio syndrome, was considering applying for a medical marijuana card
1996: Toronto
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
The midwest tea partiers I know are not for the legalization of marijuana. They are, however, greatly against all the subtle tax increases on EVERYTHING throughout the last 40 yrs or so that have influenced our cost of living--as every American should be. This being said, I am not part of the Tea Party. I just understand the being pissed at raised taxes part of it.
they want lower taxes but do not want to cut spending on anything, then complain about the financial situation in the country. how the hell can you cut taxes but pay for that ungodly large military that they like to keep overseas enforcing and protecting our interests and "delivering freedom" to people who might not even want it?
they are all for big business and banks when the banks and corporations are the ones that got us into this crisis in the first place. we will bail out wall street but if you live on martin luther king drive and have financial issues (ie ARM resets due to shitty loan) you are fucked. or if yo uincur a large medical bill that bankrupts you and your family, it is your fault for getting sick so they won't help you.
and the thing that gets me the most is they as a party are inherently selfish. they claim to have moral authority over everyone else, and that they do what their jesus tells them to do, when jesus himself would be appalled by some of the rhetoric they speak. they protect the interests of the wealthy over those of the common man, and most of the "moral" indescretions involving pages and affairs with men in public bathrooms in airports and women are done by republicans more than democrats...more congressional ethics violations are committed by republicans than anyone else as well.
perhaps the worst thing is they try to pretend that nothing was ever wrong with this country before obama took over, when it was their own jesus, ronald reagan, who implemented policies that put us on this path that we are on today. 30 years of reaganomics has been a complete and total failure, yet this is where their party STILL wants our economic system to go.
there are so many more reasons, but i think i make my point, rant over. for now.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm not Republican. I don't know what their official stand on this was. But here's mine.
From what I understand, Terri Schiavo's mom, dad, and siblings still wanted her on life support. They were upset that her legal husband had all the say in it. Let's face it. She had been in the state for a long time. I think he had even remarried or something, right? So clearly, he had moved on mentally and physically (bastard). Her family, however, may have loved her more than her husband and had not been ready to let her go yet. He shouldn't have had all the say in it.
if this is true this is a great point. hard to argue.
Keeping her on a respirator was against Terry's wishes. I know if I'm ever in that situation, I'd want my wishes honored, not those of my family's.
your right. jeeez i was getting all jeb bush for a second.
all of you can disagree with me all you want, but what i have stated in this thread is the truth. i am confident enough in my statements that you can feel free to google any one of my points and prove me wrong. all you have to do is read news and actually process it and think about it and you will see what is going on.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
again i ask you what was not answered in the other thread. by whose standards are things deemed "unnatural"? love is love whether it is between 2 men, 2 women, or a man and a woman. you need to wake up and realize that times are different than they were when you were my age, and that some stupid book is not going to keep people from falling in love. you would be better served to grant people the right to marry and have legal protections under the law rather than try to keep people from sharing those rights. i would bet you would think differently if one of your children were homosexual..
how am i wrong? what cuts will you make besides entitlement programs? god knows they will not cut that precious military, pentagon, tsa, homeland security, and cia budget. god knows that 4 billion a year to israel has to stay in there...they would cut only those programs that were put in place tohelp people. you forget it was the dumbasses in the tea party that dusrupted healthcare town hall meetings with all the tact of a 4 year old saying things like "keep your government hands off of my medicare" when those morons at the protests and the town hall meetings did not know that medicare IS a government funded and run health insurance plan. care to provide me with a list of cuts that will actually PASS a vote? not that brutal proposal from rand paul either, because it has already been shot down. instead of trying to debate me and contribute you need to say something other than "you're wrong". it does not score you any points unless you say why i am wrong. tell me how i am wrong, PLEASE.
andi have no idea what you mean when you say this "Talk about selfish...they are getting stabbed in the back buy Muslims who act as there friend then blow them selves up along with your service men and INNOCENT CIVILIANS...but you don't care because you have more empathy for the radical Muslims……There are many ways to cut taxes beside the Military." what does your example have to do with "selfish"? it make absolutely no sense. and ther are more than just MUSLM terrorists ok? remember that only 6% of terrorists inthis world, according to the fbi, are muslim. you accuse me of haveing more empathy for muslim terrorists, and that is offensive. if you would ever read any of my posts on the subject i condemn the terrorists just as much as i condemn the war crimes being committed by my militay every fucking day. nice try, to paint me as a terrorist sympathizer, but in your words "you are wrong". i can say the same thing about those who blindly support whatever moves our military makes as well. and like i stated before, what would you cut if you will not cut the military budget?
you are making it seem like the OP was talking about tea partiers. he and i both were talking about republicans, as a PARTY platform in general, and most tea partiers ARE republicans. look at the tea party caucus in the house, ALL republicans...also, how many tea partiers voted democrat last election. not many, how many voted republican? i would bet over 90% of them.
i am not even going to bother replying to the rest, i have said enough. but before i go i will ask you this: if the tea pary and republicans have "learned from the past and moved on" why do they still want to support reaganomics that has been a 30 year failure? sounds like living in the past to me....
EDIT- just to clarify, with the exception of the paragraph where i addressed aerial's quote that i said made no sense, my use of "YOU" and "YOUR" does not mean aerial specifically, but the republican party in general, as in you (the gop) would be better served...etc... or you(gop) would feel different if one of your(gop) children was a homosexual...sorry but i cam not going to go back and retype tht into the original post, but you know what i mean now..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Please do not confuse their followers with their leaders, their followers are hard working Americans who want the best for their country, but is far beyond my understanding why they keep following the republican party...
The democratic party is about the same but with a different animal in their logo.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I agree with the fact that a lot of the overall leaders of the party seem to be problematic, and that local leaders when faced with the conundrums of the people who walk beside them seem to be more grounded in common sense.
I sometimes wonder if common sense is what we really need to move forward. Seriously though, is it not common sense that people need medical marijuana, pro-choice, shelter, food etc. ? Even in Canada, with our 4 party system (at the moment) which does most of the bickering, it's the same old bullshit as you guys, it's just has a different content (definitely the same context when it comes to profit over people ... Fuck, Toronto housing can't even keep their hands out of the money which is suppose to be used to install light bulbs, windows, etc. for low income housing ... pathetic). I guess and until we break down these hideous beliefs systems, it will just go round & round.
I think I'm officially done paying attention to this comedic play we call politics and instead focus the majority of my attention to living up to what makes sense, locally, for the overall collective. I think giving your time locally is a good thing due to the ripple affect.
Fuck, I don't fuckin' know ... fuck
P.S. Anyone have a flame thrower I can borrow ?
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
to me, i don't see much difference between groups like the tea party and moveon.org, both claim to be about nonpartisanship but they ONLY support one side. the tea partiers ONLY support republicans and moveon ONLY supports democrats, there's no room for anyone else to them and if you try to bring up accountability for BOTH parties at one of their meetings you only get shouted down and told to leave.
the republicans don't really believe obama is a socialist or a communist but they know it will whip their base up into a panic, the same way obama plays to his base by acting so liberal when in reality he is exactly the same kind of corporate whore his base bitched about for 8 years but very few are willing to be critical of him or even hold him accountable to his actions and broken promises.
basically, it's all out fault because we're the ones giving these clowns support and votes. where's all the outrage they all were voicing for 8 years of bush? even over the very same issues, they were oh so vocal back then but most won't make a peep now because it's their guy in power and to most it's just about being king of the hill for 4-8 years and looking down on anyone else who disagrees with your team and attacking them as soon as they voice any criticism.
where are all the obama ass kissers from before the elections??? why don't they post here anymore? what happened to the daily bring them the fuck home NOW!!!!!!! threads? what happened to all the talk about obama being the most liberal and progressive president in human history? they had all this shit to talk before the election and now that they see they were duped really all they have left to say is the good ol, but lame, 'yeah well, that other guy would'a been worse!!!' to me it's sad that the world's only superpower picks its leader by being the lesser corporate whore, we vote to keep someone out more than we vote to put someone in. don't you see there's no incentive for them to change as long as your support is locked to them out of fear?
it seems like most americans are nothing but followers. i always hear how i have to vote for a democrat because the republican will win if i don't, i can vote for whomever i want to next time (although, i've been told this very same thing since teh clinton/dole election). they say 'gee, if only that 3rd party had more support....' what they are really saying is they are too scared and must wait for when they feel it's safe enough to do anything. imagine if all those people who said there wasn't enough support just voted anyway, i wonder what the % would be then?
politics is like wresting, they say and do things to rile us up and keep our focus and stupid shit instead of trying to solve any problems and that goes for both parties.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Agreed.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Actually, she wasn't on a respirator. The whole battle was over a feeding tube. Ultimately, the feeding tube was removed, so she slowly starved to death.