Christans fear radical islam take over after protest
Godfather.
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Godfather.
Posts: 12,504
Comments
see a difference?
the US will become involved only if they choose to.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It seems that Christians and Muslims have been protecting each other during prayer so they don't seem to have a problem with each other.
I think the US needs to learn to keep it's nose out of other countries business militarily or we are going to see years of bloodshed. Egypt isn't a backward country and I'm pretty certain the population will prevent itself being taken down the wrong path.
I haven't seen you around here lately.
if it is one of the spin-offs of the truth things you guys talk about,I wonder what this piece of news is based on
Godfather.
ive been detoxing from this joint godfather.. thats where ive been.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Probably about as useful as sucking poison from a snake bite, eh?
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probably.. but poison isnt usually what im sucking anyway.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Noam Chomsky
The Guardian, February 4, 2011
"The Arab world is on fire," al-Jazeera reported last week, while throughout the region, western allies "are quickly losing their influence". The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator's brutal police.
Observers compared it to the toppling of Russian domains in 1989, but there are important differences. Crucially, no Mikhail Gorbachev exists among the great powers that support the Arab dictators. Rather, Washington and its allies keep to the well-established principle that democracy is acceptable only insofar as it conforms to strategic and economic objectives: fine in enemy territory (up to a point), but not in our backyard, please, unless properly tamed.
One 1989 comparison has some validity: Romania, where Washington maintained its support for Nicolae Ceausescu, the most vicious of the east European dictators, until the allegiance became untenable. Then Washington hailed his overthrow while the past was erased. That is a standard pattern: Ferdinand Marcos, Jean-Claude Duvalier, Chun Doo-hwan, Suharto and many other useful gangsters. It may be under way in the case of Hosni Mubarak, along with routine efforts to try to ensure a successor regime will not veer far from the approved path. The current hope appears to be Mubarak loyalist General Omar Suleiman, just named Egypt's vice-president. Suleiman, the longtime head of the intelligence services, is despised by the rebelling public almost as much as the dictator himself.
A common refrain among pundits is that fear of radical Islam requires (reluctant) opposition to democracy on pragmatic grounds. While not without some merit, the formulation is misleading. The general threat has always been independence. The US and its allies have regularly supported radical Islamists, sometimes to prevent the threat of secular nationalism.
A familiar example is Saudi Arabia, the ideological centre of radical Islam (and of Islamic terror). Another in a long list is Zia ul-Haq, the most brutal of Pakistan's dictators and President Reagan's favorite, who carried out a programme of radical Islamisation (with Saudi funding).
"The traditional argument put forward in and out of the Arab world is that there is nothing wrong, everything is under control," says Marwan Muasher, a former Jordanian official and now director of Middle East research for the Carnegie Endowment. "With this line of thinking, entrenched forces argue that opponents and outsiders calling for reform are exaggerating the conditions on the ground."
Therefore the public can be dismissed. The doctrine traces far back and generalises worldwide, to US home territory as well. In the event of unrest, tactical shifts may be necessary, but always with an eye to reasserting control.
The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against "a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems", ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality. So said US ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.
Therefore to some observers the WikiLeaks "documents should create a comforting feeling among the American public that officials aren't asleep at the switch" -- indeed, that the cables are so supportive of US policies that it is almost as if Obama is leaking them himself (or so Jacob Heilbrunn writes in The National Interest.)
"America should give Assange a medal," says a headline in the Financial Times, where Gideon Rachman writes: "America's foreign policy comes across as principled, intelligent and pragmatic … the public position taken by the US on any given issue is usually the private position as well."
In this view, WikiLeaks undermines "conspiracy theorists" who question the noble motives Washington proclaims.
Godec's cable supports these judgments -- at least if we look no further. If we do,, as foreign policy analyst Stephen Zunes reports in Foreign Policy in Focus, we find that, with Godec's information in hand, Washington provided $12m in military aid to Tunisia. As it happens, Tunisia was one of only five foreign beneficiaries: Israel (routinely); the two Middle East dictatorships Egypt and Jordan; and Colombia, which has long had the worst human-rights record and the most US military aid in the hemisphere.
Heilbrunn's exhibit A is Arab support for US policies targeting Iran, revealed by leaked cables. Rachman too seizes on this example, as did the media generally, hailing these encouraging revelations. The reactions illustrate how profound is the contempt for democracy in the educated culture.
Unmentioned is what the population thinks -- easily discovered. According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10%. In contrast, they regard the US and Israel as the major threats (77%; 88%).
Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington's policies that a majority (57%) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons. Still, "there is nothing wrong, everything is under control" (as Muasher describes the prevailing fantasy). The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored -- unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted.
Other leaks also appear to lend support to the enthusiastic judgments about Washington's nobility. In July 2009, Hugo Llorens, U.S. ambassador to Honduras, informed Washington of an embassy investigation of "legal and constitutional issues surrounding the 28 June forced removal of President Manuel 'Mel' Zelaya."
The embassy concluded that "there is no doubt that the military, supreme court and national congress conspired on 28 June in what constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup against the executive branch". Very admirable, except that President Obama proceeded to break with almost all of Latin America and Europe by supporting the coup regime and dismissing subsequent atrocities.
Perhaps the most remarkable WikiLeaks revelations have to do with Pakistan, reviewed by foreign policy analyst Fred Branfman in Truthdig.
The cables reveal that the US embassy is well aware that Washington's war in Afghanistan and Pakistan not only intensifies rampant anti-Americanism but also "risks destabilising the Pakistani state" and even raises a threat of the ultimate nightmare: that nuclear weapons might fall into the hands of Islamic terrorists.
Again, the revelations "should create a comforting feeling … that officials are not asleep at the switch" (Heilbrunn's words) -- while Washington marches stalwartly toward disaster.
and hopefully for the better for the people of Egypt.
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
that would be great !..but with all this alies business and what ever else is going on...I don't know if that could ever happen.
Godfather.
I know we don't agree on just about everything
Godfather.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
are you in Egypt ?
Godfather.
Why would that matter? As I see it there are only a few places where "Christians" are reiling themselves up to counter this Islamic threat, and America seems to be one of the forerunners. Christians and Muslims have co existed, for the most part, peacefully in Egypt. Stop spouting out the talking points of that "news" channel and try researching it for yourself.
I asked because if he was he could give a little better insight to what is going on with all that.....
why don't you think a little before for you go shooting your mouth off..as you do most of the time.
Godfather.
Of all people to suggest that to another human being - do you not see the irony in it?
So any new updates from Fox, I could do with a laugh
yeah...."they say the empty can rattles the most,your own voice must sooth you" hows that ?
Godfather.
Indeed, but have "radical muslims" been in control? "Radical" any religion in totalitarian control of a national gov't historically has not boded well for folks of other religions in that country. From the Middle East to Europe to wherever, across centuries.
The question is really whether radical[anything] is going to take over once (if) Mubarak is shown the door later this year.
Godfather.
Looks like Saudi Arabia hasn't been doing too badly. Did you read the article i posted above, or was it too long for you?
caesar wasnt overthrown by his army. and it was more than a single senator that murdered him.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
'...In Philip Pullman's Northern Lights, the aim of the evil guys is to sever children from their spirits so releasing the energy needed by the government.
Well, that's a brilliant metaphor for what we feel has been happening to us in Egypt.
We were being deliberately severed from everything we hold dear, in the service of keeping the region subservient to American and Israeli interests.
And the only Egyptians to gain anything by this were the members and cronies of the regime who amassed spectacular wealth at the material, moral and emotional expense of their fellow-citizens.
On Sunday in Tahrir, Christian masses were celebrated and Muslim prayers were said.'
I know,but I thought some of his solders were in on it also, anyway smarty pants you got this idea
and please accept my apologies for my earlier rant Cate.
Godfather.
i agree.
but lets not forget that even in a secular society common sense(whatever that is) and human rights often fly out the window.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say