Tube sag/distortion

OffHeGoes29

Is this possible at lower vol. settings? Or do I have to crank it to 11 to get it? I've tried messing with my Big Muff's vol. and gain into my Blues Deville 212. Something like a Jack White sound. Would a booster aid in the attempt to get there with out blowing out my windows in my appartment? :shock:

keeponrockin

You need an attenuator. ANd for Jack White, a digitech Whammy.

exhausted

tube sag is related to the rectifier tube (in amps so equipped) getting beaten to hell along with the transformers and filter caps. it's the actual power supply voltage sagging. the amp yielding if you will.

very difficult to achieve with pedals and the amps pre-amp alone.

basically, without an attentuator between the amp's output and the speaker, it's not achievable at low volumes. plus the deville isn't tube rectified. and then there's speaker compression.

i mostly associate it with the compression heard when a high wattage amp is dancing on the edge of compression and the power tubes are saturating (warren haynes, derek trucks, some mark knopfler, john mayer etc.) but of course can be associated with heavy distortion too (neil young) but it's almost always purely a function of the amp. a good compressor might get you some of the feel though.

i don't think a booster is going to buy you anything but more gain. the muff is basically fully saturated all the time anyway but can give you the spongey feel depending on your guitar's volume. i like using the neck pickup, turned down a ways, into a muff with it's gain in the 1/3 range or so. not really a jack white sound i suppose though.



on a side note, this is interesting reading:
http://www.aikenamps.com/Sag.html

mccreadyisgod

Attenuator or iso cab. You can get preamp drive on an amp with master volume, but that just ain't the same. I personally prefer power tube saturation, like Ex described. Usually, that means running your amp at around 50-65% of total output. That usually also means ear-splitting volumes. So you gotta use an attenuator (makes part of the amp's output wattage disappear as heat) or an iso cab (a sound-isolated speaker sealed inside a box; usually mic'ed for recording or for shows).

The only other real option is to find a super-low-wattage amp. There are a number of amps with 15 watts, which will saturate nicely at stage-friendly volumes. There are 5-watt amps that can be run pretty hot for a show or practice. I've personally been interested in the Vox Lil Night Train, which is a 2-watt amp; not sure how it sounds (never actually played one), but 2 watts might be low enough to play in my apartment with the volume higher than 1.

Problem with tube wattage ratings is that half the watts is louder than half the volume. That is, a 100-watt amp is not twice as loud as a 50-watt amp. In fact, a 50-watt amp thru the same speaker cab will sound about 70% as loud as the 100-watt amp. A Blues DeVille is rated at 60 watts, which is a pretty loud tube amp. Even the Pro Junior (15 watts thru 1x10") and Blues Junior (15 watts thru 1x12") are fairly loud amps.

Some folks will play a bigger amp for clean tones, and use a pan pedal or ABY pedal to switch to a smaller, cranked amp for dirty tones. I've seen a few Pro Junior amps hidden behind half-stacks on arena stages, so they could mic up the little cranked amp for distortion tones while everyone admires their 300-watt Marshall full-stack displayed on stage. And Keith Richards doesn't even hide his Fender Champs. Even Eddie has been playing 12-watt Fender tweed Deluxe amps for his dirty tone lately.

You don't mention if you're trying to get this tone at home, practice, or shows, so it's hard to recommend what exact route to take. Attenuator is probably cheapest, but many small tube amps are fairly affordable.

OffHeGoes29

Even with an attenuator, is it really possible with a Deville? As stated, its not really equiped to do so...

Thanks!