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Israeli army condemns publication of Gaza 'war criminals'

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited November 2010 in A Moving Train
Israeli army condemns publication of Gaza 'war criminals'

Names, photographs and addresses of soldiers said to have taken part in Gaza offensive put on website

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... -gaza-list

Israeli army condemns publication of Gaza 'war criminals'Names, photographs and addresses of soldiers said to have taken part in Gaza offensive put on website


Associated Press guardian.co.uk, Friday 19 November 2010 13.52 GMT

Israel's military today condemned the publication of the names and photographs of 200 Israeli soldiers on a website that labelled them war criminals.

The site also published the home addresses and ID numbers of many of the Israelis. They included senior commanders and low-ranking soldiers whom the site claimed took part in the three-week offensive in Gaza that began in December 2008. The accuracy of the published details could not be confirmed.

The Israel Defence Force said the military "deplores the publication of personal details of hundreds of IDF soldiers and officers, without any factual basis whatsoever". But it said the information posed no real threat to those on the list.

The information was put online this week by anonymous activists in Britain and hosted by a US-based web service, which took it down today citing "breach of terms", according to the Israeli daily Haaretz.

The website said the information came from an anonymous source who was "presumably" serving in the Israeli military. The military is investigating whether the information was leaked by a soldier, according to a report in the daily Maariv.

"The people listed here held positions of command at the time of the attack," the website said, "therefore, not only did they perform on behalf of a murderous state mechanism but actively encouraged other people to do the same."

It included what appeared to be an implied threat to harm the soldiers, urging readers, to "do your bit so that this virtual list may come to bear upon the physical".

Israel began its Gaza offensive after years of rocket fire from the coastal strip. About 1,400 people, most of them civilians, were killed according to Palestinian and international human rights groups. Thirteen Israelis were killed.

The offensive reduced the rocket fire from Gaza but did not end it. Early today a military-grade Grad rocket was fired into southern Israel from Gaza, causing light damage and no casualties.

Israeli-soldiers-during-G-006.jpg
Israeli soldiers return from Gaza in January 2009. A website published the names of 200 soldiers, calling them 'war criminals'.



i am not sure what to think about this. in a way it is like posting the info on abortion doctors on line. but this is different because these soldiers committed crimes in an undeclared war. tey massacred 1400 people, mostly civilians. i am not condoning this in any way, but i am afraid that people are pissed off enough now that if the international community will do nothing about these soldiers, then people will take things into their own hands. and i am afraid that as technology improves, this is only going to be the beginning of retrbution against many of the alleged guilty parties in many cases all over the world...and that scares the hell out of me..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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Comments

  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    There's also the minor issue of there not being any proof that any of the people listed did anything wrong (unless you make the assumption that simply serving in the IDF (which is mandatory in Israel) makes you a criminal). A lot of the people named on this list are (from what I can tell) kids (drafted out of high school) who were simply serving out their three years. Unless someone can produce actual evidence linking these people to specific instances of criminal behavior there is no basis for assuming they are guilty of anything.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yosi wrote:
    There's also the minor issue of there not being any proof that any of the people listed did anything wrong (unless you make the assumption that simply serving in the IDF (which is mandatory in Israel) makes you a criminal). A lot of the people named on this list are (from what I can tell) kids (drafted out of high school) who were simply serving out their three years. Unless someone can produce actual evidence linking these people to specific instances of criminal behavior there is no basis for assuming they are guilty of anything.
    the entire operation was illegal. just like us invading iraq. the article says that those are names of people who were there, and wouldn't participating in an illegal activity make someone a potential criminal?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    So you believe that every member of the US military is a war criminal?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yosi wrote:
    So you believe that every member of the US military is a war criminal?
    when carrying out orders in waging an undeclared, aggressive and illegal war and occupation such as iraq and afghanistan, yes, i can make that argument. but then it can be argued that the superiors and those giving the orders, such as the commander in chief would be war criminals instead. if they are not war criminals, then they are at least complicit. look at the Nuremberg verdicts. it was ruled that " i was only following orders" was not a valid defense and was not enough to warrant mercy from that court.

    acts of war can not be carried out without an army of willing soldiers. and willingness can be a predisposition to guilt.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    I'm just curious, does the idf "assume" every male Palestinian they sweep up, blind fold, and take to god knows where doing god knows what to them, all terrerists? They seem to have no problem assuming, doing whatever they want, listening to no one who speaks to them. It's so fucken sad that they can't or dnt want to find a solution. We as a country have no problem using our mite and pushing anyone around if they dnt listen to us, yet being Israel's stongest ally knowing peace HAS to come there, we just turn a blind fucken eye......oh ya, and we pay THEM for not listening to us....hmmm, I'm just saying....
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    i've seen this list. looked at every picture. some are low level grunts, some are major officers.


    during war the rule of law is suspended.




    i have no problem with them publishing names and addresses of known israeli combatants. if you do the time you best be prepared to do the time.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Commy wrote:
    i've seen this list. looked at every picture. some are low level grunts, some are major officers.


    during war the rule of law is suspended.




    i have no problem with them publishing names and addresses of known israeli combatants. if you do the time you best be prepared to do the time.
    is this ethical?

    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    i've seen this list. looked at every picture. some are low level grunts, some are major officers.


    during war the rule of law is suspended.




    i have no problem with them publishing names and addresses of known israeli combatants. if you do the time you best be prepared to do the time.
    is this ethical?

    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    these men and women killed people, innocent people. they are indistinguishable from serial killers.....their names have been published, much like a child molester that moves into your neighborhoood........its up to the people to decide if there has been justice.


    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    i've seen this list. looked at every picture. some are low level grunts, some are major officers.


    during war the rule of law is suspended.




    i have no problem with them publishing names and addresses of known israeli combatants. if you do the time you best be prepared to do the time.
    is this ethical?

    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    why is government the arm of justice? given its record especially. why do the authorities have the final say?




    the people (this is democracy in action) could have it. they could be the ones to carry out justice. just because it is not institutionalized does not make inferior.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Commy wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    i've seen this list. looked at every picture. some are low level grunts, some are major officers.


    during war the rule of law is suspended.




    i have no problem with them publishing names and addresses of known israeli combatants. if you do the time you best be prepared to do the time.
    is this ethical?

    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    why is government the arm of justice? given its record especially. why do the authorities have the final say?




    the people (this is democracy in action) could have it. they could be the ones to carry out justice. just because it is not institutionalized does not make inferior.
    i am not sure i understand what you are asking....why is the government an arm of justice??? because maybe the government is necessary to mete out justice when the local sheriff or taliban leader fails??? it seems like you are saying that the palestinians in occupied territiry can carry out justice, and i would say that that is not feasible because those that occupy gaza and the west bank would not allow such a display....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    what people seem to be forgetting is that this is not a war, it's an illegal occupation. condemned by most of the rest of the world. isn't war when two armies fight against each other?

    as for Israel's military condemning the publication of the names and photographs of the soldiers... well here's a thought. how about they just end the brutal and illegal occupation. how about they just cease all settlement expansion and return to the '67 borders. how about they finally be held accountable for their actions.

    if they really gave a shit about their soldiers safety they would do that. then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. would we?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Does the list include the crimes that the individual soldiers are charged with?
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    i completely disagree.

    publishing a list of names of soldiers who work for the IDF doesn't even come close to comparing to what the state of Israel has done to ordinary Palestinians over the years. the people of Gaza and the West Bank, for the most, are just ordinary human beings who deserve to be treated so much better than they are. there is nothing that they have ever done that warrants them being treated like they are every single day.

    not even close.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    ذهب wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    i completely disagree.

    publishing a list of names of soldiers who work for the IDF doesn't even come close to comparing to what the state of Israel has done to ordinary Palestinians over the years. the people of Gaza and the West Bank, for the most, are just ordinary human beings who deserve to be treated so much better than they are. there is nothing that they have ever done that warrants them being treated like they are every single day.

    not even close.

    What does your new Arabic name mean Triumphant?
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Does the list include the crimes that the individual soldiers are charged with?

    i don't know. i doubt it. IDF soldiers usually don't get charged with crimes. for the most they are not held accountable for their actions.

    it's been taken down now. i know Gabi Ashkenazi was at the top of the list. no surprises there.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Byrnzie wrote:
    ??? wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    i completely disagree.

    publishing a list of names of soldiers who work for the IDF doesn't even come close to comparing to what the state of Israel has done to ordinary Palestinians over the years. the people of Gaza and the West Bank, for the most, are just ordinary human beings who deserve to be treated so much better than they are. there is nothing that they have ever done that warrants them being treated like they are every single day.

    not even close.

    What does your new Arabic name mean Triumphant?
    google it. its quite interesting...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    google it. its quite interesting...

    Gold?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    ذهب wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    i completely disagree.

    publishing a list of names of soldiers who work for the IDF doesn't even come close to comparing to what the state of Israel has done to ordinary Palestinians over the years. the people of Gaza and the West Bank, for the most, are just ordinary human beings who deserve to be treated so much better than they are. there is nothing that they have ever done that warrants them being treated like they are every single day.

    not even close.
    i agree with you. but if you choose to be unreasonable then disagree with me then. it's up to you. i just do not see how lumping guilty parties with parties who may or may not be guilty accomplishes anything at all..to me it seems that all idf are indicted for the actions of some, the same as that all palestinians are condemned by actions of hamas, the same as all US military are guilty for the actions of some....there are some guilty, some not guilty. to accuse everyone to be one or the other is irresponsibe to me.....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    [What does your new Arabic name mean Triumphant?
    google it. its quite interesting...

    it's the name of a pearl jam song. gone.

    i fail to see what's so quite ínteresting about it.
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    ذهب wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i have just as much of a problem with publishing this information as i do with what the IDF has done...
    i completely disagree.

    publishing a list of names of soldiers who work for the IDF doesn't even come close to comparing to what the state of Israel has done to ordinary Palestinians over the years. the people of Gaza and the West Bank, for the most, are just ordinary human beings who deserve to be treated so much better than they are. there is nothing that they have ever done that warrants them being treated like they are every single day.

    not even close.
    i agree with you. but if you choose to be unreasonable then disagree with me then. it's up to you. i just do not see how lumping guilty parties with parties who may or may not be guilty accomplishes anything at all..to me it seems that all idf are indicted for the actions of some, the same as that all palestinians are condemned by actions of hamas, the same as all US military are guilty for the actions of some....there are some guilty, some not guilty. to accuse everyone to be one or the other is irresponsibe to me.....
    i'm not disagreeing with you just so you can perceive me as being unreasonable. i simply don't agree that the actions are comparable.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    ذهب wrote:
    i'm not disagreeing with you just so you can perceive me as being unreasonable. i simply don't agree that the actions are comparable.
    how are the actions incomparable? publishing the names of those that may or may not have committed crimes, let alone may or may not have been there at all is going down a slippery slope. that is irresponsible. that would be like you responding to some emergency and then you becoming a target simply because you happened to be there responding to an emergency. you need to be sure that you are targeting the guilty. suppose you help a persone injured in a rocket attack, yet the person you are helping launched the rocket. does his guilt make him any more correct in his actions and make ou any less of a target?? you must be careful to whom you assign blame, and to whom is held accontable.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    ذهب wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    [What does your new Arabic name mean Triumphant?
    google it. its quite interesting...

    it's the name of a pearl jam song. gone.

    i fail to see what's so quite ínteresting about it.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B0%D9%87%D8%A8
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    ذهب wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    google it. its quite interesting...

    it's the name of a pearl jam song. gone.

    i fail to see what's so quite ínteresting about it.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B0%D9%87%D8%A8
    one of my favorite pearl jam songs. also one of my brothers. i was listening to the song. thinking of him, wishing he was here. changed my message board name. didn't realize that was a crime.

    this is the translator i used.

    http://translate.google.com/#en|ar|gone

    ذهب


    and as for the quite interesting comment, the only thing interesting about it is why people might be so fascinated with my message board name that they would google it.

    personally i'd prefer it if people mind their own business and keep to the topic at hand which the last i checked didn't involve people concerning themselves with anything to do with me.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    ذهب wrote:
    one of my favorite pearl jam songs. also one of my brothers. i was listening to the song. thinking of him, wishing he was here. changed my message board name. didn't realize that was a crime.

    this is the translator i used.

    http://translate.google.com/#en|ar|gone

    ذهب


    and as for the quite interesting comment, the only thing interesting about it is why people might be so fascinated with my message board name that they would google it.

    personally i'd prefer it if people mind their own business and keep to the topic at hand which the last i checked didn't involve people concerning themselves with anything to do with me.

    byrnzie raised the question, i googled it so what? if your pms were switched on maybe he or anyone could have asked you privately....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i am not sure what to think about this. in a way it is like posting the info on abortion doctors on line. but this is different because these soldiers committed crimes in an undeclared war. tey massacred 1400 people, mostly civilians. i am not condoning this in any way, but i am afraid that people are pissed off enough now that if the international community will do nothing about these soldiers, then people will take things into their own hands. and i am afraid that as technology improves, this is only going to be the beginning of retrbution against many of the alleged guilty parties in many cases all over the world...and that scares the hell out of me..

    what i cant condone is the publishing of the names of soldiers. would we be supportive of this if these were soldiers from our own country? i certainly wouldnt. earlier this month we were appalled at not only the conviction and sentencing of omar khadr but the fact that in all possibility he didnt even do what he was accused of. whilst we are all appalled at the continuing agression of the IDF against the palestinians at the behest of the israeli government i think it is dangerous to draw blanket conclusions on the guilt of individual soldiers by collectively condemning them as one.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    ذهب wrote:
    one of my favorite pearl jam songs. also one of my brothers. i was listening to the song. thinking of him, wishing he was here. changed my message board name. didn't realize that was a crime.

    this is the translator i used.

    http://translate.google.com/#en|ar|gone

    ذهب


    and as for the quite interesting comment, the only thing interesting about it is why people might be so fascinated with my message board name that they would google it.

    personally i'd prefer it if people mind their own business and keep to the topic at hand which the last i checked didn't involve people concerning themselves with anything to do with me.

    are you kidding me??? you change your username to something arabic. something the vast majority here would find at least intriguing. why the fuck wouldnt someone google it for a little bit of understanding? no need to get a bee in your bonnet about it. no its not a crime to change your username but people are interested. simple. :roll: :lol:
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    catefrances wrote:
    ذهب wrote:
    one of my favorite pearl jam songs. also one of my brothers. i was listening to the song. thinking of him, wishing he was here. changed my message board name. didn't realize that was a crime.

    this is the translator i used.

    http://translate.google.com/#en|ar|gone

    ذهب


    and as for the quite interesting comment, the only thing interesting about it is why people might be so fascinated with my message board name that they would google it.

    personally i'd prefer it if people mind their own business and keep to the topic at hand which the last i checked didn't involve people concerning themselves with anything to do with me.

    are you kidding me??? you change your username to something arabic. something the vast majority here would find at least intriguing. why the fuck wouldnt someone google it for a little bit of understanding? no need to get a bee in your bonnet about it. no its not a crime to change your username but people are interested. simple. :roll: :lol:
    actually cate, it was the quite interesting comment that pisses me off.

    what's so fucking interesting about the word gone? huh?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    catefrances wrote:
    are you kidding me??? you change your username to something arabic. something the vast majority here would find at least intriguing. why the fuck wouldnt someone google it for a little bit of understanding? no need to get a bee in your bonnet about it. no its not a crime to change your username but people are interested. simple. :roll: :lol:
    thank you. glad i am not the only one confused here...as if using an arabic name is not going to increase curiosity or anything. i did not know what those characters meant so i googled it. sue me...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    are you kidding me??? you change your username to something arabic. something the vast majority here would find at least intriguing. why the fuck wouldnt someone google it for a little bit of understanding? no need to get a bee in your bonnet about it. no its not a crime to change your username but people are interested. simple. :roll: :lol:
    thank you. glad i am not the only one confused here...as if using an arabic name is not going to increase curiosity or anything. i did not know what those characters meant so i googled it. sue me...
    again. google all you want. it was the quite interesting comment that i took offence to.

    so again.
    whats so fucking interesting about it?

    what? you think scary me is some kind of terrorist and gonna destroy your freedoms or something? it's a fucking SONG.

    a Pearl Jam song. on a Pearl Jam board.

    gosh.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    ذهب wrote:
    actually cate, it was the quite interesting comment that pisses me off.

    what's so fucking interesting about the word gone? huh?

    you need to calm down. perhaps it was just the wrong usage of words. no need to be freaking about it and taking offense.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
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